Concept Profession: The Alchemist

[Sabre Wolf]

Ok, like I said it is my turn to submit my concept Profession… which I actually submitted back in 2008 on Guru1 I believe. This concept profession is called the Alchemist. This Profession incorporates two things being GW’s transition to GW2 with the reworking of professions, and the current lore in place of GW2. The reworked professions incorporated into this are the Mesmer, Ritualist and the Paragon professions and taking in their buff/debuff capabilities and working all of them into one profession. By doing so, I have also modernized the professions to meet the lore of GW2. What was once Shouts, Chants, Weapon Spells and Spirits, are now Potions, Metabolic Changes and Black Powder. Since Hexing is considered spell use, the concentration was turned to conditions.

The Alchemist



General Lore

In GW2 we find that the six gods are playing less of a role in Tryia. This is due to the rise of the other races, the decline of the Human race, and the rise in technology. This profession came about due to those who have turned their backs on the Six Gods and embraced the ways for modernization. What were once spells drawn from the blood stones, are now in the forms of potions, black powder and refined tools. The followers of this training have taken the core values of assisting allies and hindering their foes from the old Mesmer, Ritualist and Paragon lines; and have found ways to implement them into a new form without the need of Magic. Each race has contributed to this profession to make it as we see it today.

The Humans and Sylvari have concentrated most of their efforts into the workings of a herbalist and chemistry in order to help their fellow allies in battle.

The Norn have worked on more of the Metabolism side in the form of self buffs.

The Charr have worked on the modern tools of war which includes black powder and has lead to direct damage.

The Asurans have worked on the hindering tools to disable their foes to take advantage of them.

With the combined efforts of all these Races, they have found ways for those who are not Chosen to be able to fight and help others in battle. They have each taken their core values, and those of old teachings, and have transferred them into a new belief and path that is not driven by Gods and Magic.


Basic Gameplay

The core purpose of this profession is to buff the allies, and hinder the efforts of their foes. This can be by potions given to allies to speed their attacks, casting times, movement speed, ect. While at the same time they try to slow the casting times, movement and attack speed of their foes. These, as stated above, are two different lines. So one creature cannot reach the full effect of both lines at the same time (keeping inline the balance theory of the bloodstone for game play purposes). The same goes for the Metabolic changes which would only effect one’s self. The black powder aspect comes into play much like the Smiting Prayers of the Monk line, where there is a conduit of force damage that can be reached. However, like the other lines, full dedication into this aspect must be given to see the results.


Attributes

Metabolism (Primary Attribute)

Points into this attribute, will affect the speeds of “casting” time and recharge of skills. 1 point = 3% of speed boost to “casting” of Alchemist skills and Alchemist skills recharges. (Based on the current GW1 system.) (Also note that the effect only effect Alchemist Skills).

This line is the ultimate form of Alchemy… to changes one’s self physically to inherit the ability to do bigger things. This can be in the form of Energy Management, speed boosts, self healing and other forms of abilities (skills) that deem too strong to be in a secondary line. All skills will affect one’s self only. Note, that the areas of Self Healing and such mimic those of the Healing Sig of the Warrior and the Troll Ungent of a Ranger.

Medicinal Alchemy

This line is dedicated to the buffing of your fellow team mates. This replaces a lot of the Weapon Spells and Shouts/Chants there were from the Ritualits and Paragon lines. There are however numerous skills in this area that cannot be self targeting for balance purposes. But some of these effects can be found in the Metabolism line. This forces players to take Alchemist as their primary profession in order to balance play. There are also come condition removal in this line as well. However, little to no HP healing is in this line.

Dark Alchemy

This line is dedicated to hinder the foes. The use of potions and such to poison, cripple and daze their foes into being less effective as the means of attack. This line contains many conditions that are separated for the most part, but do not include Burning and Blindness.

Pyrotechnics

This line is dedicated to the study of Black Powder, whether in the form of gun usage or grenades. The gun for this line is not much different than a wand; however, there are various effects that can be integrated into this line, similarly to Weapon Spells from the old Ritualist line, and Conjure Element lines of an Elementalist. This line holds the ability to target one or multiple targets, along with burning and blindness effects.

[pradine]

I like the idea, but it looks like something that COULD be done with a Mesmer/Monk. The mesmer hinders the efforts of their foes, and the monk secondary buffs the allies.
So how are the potions that the alchemist use different to the spells of the mesmer/monk?

[Phoenix Tears]

too blown up imo.
Besides the Potion Gameplay this concept imo offers nothing that makes out a real Alchemist.

But thats just my opinion.


- The Ritualist doesnt belong into something that has do do with Alchemy, if there is any possible merge with the Ritualist, then imo only with the Necromancer to become a complete Occultist , or a merge just only with the mesmer to differentiate more from the necromancer becoming a furtune telling Oracle about Tarot Cards and such things.

But the Ritualist has absolutely nothing, where I would say, it sounds plausible that this Class, which was all about Spirit summoning turns out 250 years later into a mix of Mesmer, Ritu, Ele and Paragon oO

Just as said.. too blown up, and especially the stealing of the Mesmer effect of Fast Casting in its primary is stupid... Alchemists have nothing to do with magic.. Alchemists are a complete UNMAGICAL class... their abilities are the results of medieval SCIENCE.

or do you find a Molotov Cocktial is a Magic Spell ?, or is an Acid Flask for you something magical ? I doubt not.. so its total impossible that their primary attribute will quicken up Cast Speed and Recharge Times of Spells >.< /fail

There is the concept of actionjack and me together alot nearer at the point of how an Alchemist should work in GW2.
Maybe u should give a quick look over of our both concepts, especialy when thinking on the primary attribute effect.

In my concept for example i combined the primary effect with the main gameplay of the class, because it was unused also..a primary effect that is about increasing the maximum throwing range of potions ect.
Thats the gameplay about what a real Alchemist is nearly all the time about - using potions, creatign potings, throwing away potions/powders at foes.. so better there is naturally ur maximum throwing distance, so better for you.

Our concepts offered imo more new things that would add something interesting to the game that didn't existed before GW2, other then only mixing 3 to 4 classes together and making 1 out of them under a total different dress that has nothing to do with anyone of the 3 to 4 fusioned parts of it ...

[Sabre Wolf]

Originally Posted by pradine

I like the idea, but it looks like something that COULD be done with a Mesmer/Monk. The mesmer hinders the efforts of their foes, and the monk secondary buffs the allies.

So how are the potions that the alchemist use different to the spells of the mesmer/monk?

The potions are not magical... so that is another form of buffing. They are not enchantment based like Magic is. So its another variation to gain simular same effect.

Also, this line does not heal like a Monk. There is no HP gain...

[actionjack]

A fair concept..

But since it lack much of details, nor really offer anything new (in GW1 Standard atleast)... does seem a bit flat...

Maybe the potion is done different than casting of spells?

[Sabre Wolf]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

too blown up imo.
Besides the Potion Gameplay this concept imo offers nothing that makes out a real Alchemist.

But thats just my opinion.


- The Ritualist doesnt belong into something that has do do with Alchemy, if there is any possible merge with the Ritualist, then imo only with the Necromancer to become a complete Occultist , or a merge just only with the mesmer to differentiate more from the necromancer becoming a furtune telling Oracle about Tarot Cards and such things.

But the Ritualist has absolutely nothing, where I would say, it sounds plausible that this Class, which was all about Spirit summoning turns out 250 years later into a mix of Mesmer, Ritu, Ele and Paragon oO

Just as said.. too blown up, and especially the stealing of the Mesmer effect of Fast Casting in its primary is stupid... Alchemists have nothing to do with magic.. Alchemists are a complete UNMAGICAL class... their abilities are the results of medieval SCIENCE.

or do you find a Molotov Cocktial is a Magic Spell ?, or is an Acid Flask for you something magical ? I doubt not.. so its total impossible that their primary attribute will quicken up Cast Speed and Recharge Times of Spells >.< /fail

There is the concept of actionjack and me together alot nearer at the point of how an Alchemist should work in GW2.
Maybe u should give a quick look over of our both concepts, especialy when thinking on the primary attribute effect.

In my concept for example i combined the primary effect with the main gameplay of the class, because it was unused also..a primary effect that is about increasing the maximum throwing range of potions ect.
Thats the gameplay about what a real Alchemist is nearly all the time about - using potions, creatign potings, throwing away potions/powders at foes.. so better there is naturally ur maximum throwing distance, so better for you.

Our concepts offered imo more new things that would add something interesting to the game that didn't existed before GW2, other then only mixing 3 to 4 classes together and making 1 out of them under a total different dress that has nothing to do with anyone of the 3 to 4 fusioned parts of it ...

Ok first off... you obviously didn't read anything because I said atleast 4 times that this profession was created to drive away from magic... everything you stated in your post is about magic. /fail back to you for failing to note that these skills are not magical.

Metabolism takes into account the increased heart rate and reflexs in order to make actions happen faster. Ergo, the attribute benifit line.

As for the throwing aspect... this was a debate in my first posting of this profession a long time ago in GW Guru 1... so we came to the conclusion that that aspect of gameplay would be kinda fail because of the potential of walls and foes int he way of the throw. Which, potential could cause you yo buff a foe instead of an ally. However, it still left room to ponder how to get the effects to your party members at range, unless everything was a "touch skill".

As for the "offering more", you are right, that is your opinion.

As for the fusion thing... read the lore again... I took the professions that were buff in one way, buff a different way, buff a different way, ect... and modernized them all into one new form of buffing.

[Konig Des Todes]

Nice idea, though I don't really like the idea of combining the Ritualist with the Mesmer (I'd rather combine that with the Necromancer, to be honest) - and yes, I read that this is of them leaving their faith (though to be honest, we see casters of those who don't worship the gods).

In fact, I don't really see anything of the existing professions, lore wise (only mechanic wise).

But still good profession, in my opinion.

[Malchior Devenholm]

Interesting concept Sabre.

I kinda like how you tried to justify these mechanics into a non-magical form, but it's overall confusing in a way.

The pyrotechnics would fit that of early alchemists or inventors who discovered black powder, but I'm not quite sure if that would equate to an alchemist using a gun...

It's really spread out IMO, I can match it to mechanics, but I'm having a difficulty matching it to a similar role in GW1 and matching it to lore.

EDIT-Seems both Konig and I are having trouble matching lore to the mechanics.

[Sabre Wolf]

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

(though to be honest, we see casters of those who don't worship the gods).

Which begs the question that since these other races of caster are able to "tap into the lines of the six gods"... then do they pull their powers from the blood stone? Or another magical source, like the dragons?

Vekk did say the reason why they built the Central Transfer Chamber near to statue (Primoridious sleeping) because it "bleeds magic". So would other forms of creature pull their magical casting powers from these dragon sources instead of the blood stones?

As for this magical thing that keep popping up... the followers of the teachings of Alchemy are taking the ideals of what the Ritualist, for instance, was trying to complish, but not the same road to get there.

Also the Mesmer/Necro... ye, same concept of hinderence... but keep in mind, that this profession does not interrupt, but find means to hinder their foes simularly to hexing, but instead go in the route of conditions instead since hexing is that magical route. So maybe Ranger would be a better pull since hat more natural related?

[Konig Des Todes]

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

Which begs the question that since these other races of caster are able to "tap into the lines of the six gods"... then do they pull their powers from the blood stone? Or another magical source, like the dragons?

How I see it, the gods don't provide the power of the magic. Abaddon just "allowed" people to tap that power, then the bloodstones limits the amount of power that can be tapped.

Personally, I think magic is just the act of mentally affecting out-of-body energy (whereas normal use of energy is within the body). Many people think of this as psionic powers. In this aspect, magic is just a verb, not a noun, as anyone who has the mental ability would be able to use magic in Tyria - but the kinds/schools of magic which can be "produced" is absorbed by the bloodstones, allowing only the strongest school of magic to take place.

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

Vekk did say the reason why they built the Central Transfer Chamber near to statue (Primoridious sleeping) because it "bleeds magic". So would other forms of creature pull their magical casting powers from these dragon sources instead of the blood stones?

I wouldn't really say that the elder dragons are "sources" of magic, but instead of just constantly spilling energy (in order to prevent holding in too much energy) which can then be used by others. Same goes with the bloodstones (though that both absorbs and expels).

I could go on, but I'd rather just say this has my full thoughts on the topic.

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

So maybe Ranger would be a better pull since hat more natural related?

Though the issue is that Alchemists are scientists, more or less, and Rangers are people who tend to protect nature from the unnatural - which would include science. In terms of lore, I don't see any profession becoming some scientist - except maybe some Elementalists (human Tyrian, at least - who are people who focus on knowledge for their power). I see a "scientist profession" just sprouting out by the advancement of technology - and the influence of the Asura.

[Sabre Wolf]

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

...but instead of just constantly spilling energy (in order to prevent holding in too much energy) which can then be used by others. Same goes with the bloodstones (though that both absorbs and expels).

I guess that theory would be a good explanation of the mutation of the land and creatures as the dragons passed overhead.

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I could go on, but I'd rather just say this has my full thoughts on the topic.

I'll have to flip through it sometime

[Phoenix Tears]

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

Ok first off... you obviously didn't read anything because I said atleast 4 times that this profession was created to drive away from magic... everything you stated in your post is about magic. /fail back to you for failing to note that these skills are not magical.

Metabolism takes into account the increased heart rate and reflexs in order to make actions happen faster. Ergo, the attribute benifit line.

I said it only, because alot of your stuff sounded about the primary attribute, as if it would be just an improved copy of Fast Casting.
You have clearly clarified there, that the Attribute should count only for physical skills and not for any spells...

still however i think Alchemists shouldn't be the class with this type of primary attribute effect, simple out of the reason that manipulating the Heart Rate is CLEARLY the thing of Warriors and not of Alchemists as adrenaline massively increases and influences the Heart Rate!!!

And Reflexes are not the gameplay of Alchemists, Reflexes are heavily when at all part of Assassins!!.. they are the class all about reflexes, not Alchemists.

As for the throwing aspect... this was a debate in my first posting of this profession a long time ago in GW Guru 1... so we came to the conclusion that that aspect of gameplay would be kinda fail because of the potential of walls and foes int he way of the throw. Which, potential could cause you yo buff a foe instead of an ally. However, it still left room to ponder how to get the effects to your party members at range, unless everything was a "touch skill".

This is so wrong.. this gameplay would be essential for balancing the class, because the same way are balanced Rangers... you can't shoot and hit with rangers also too your foes, which are hiding behind a rock or a tree or whatever is blocking your line of sight. Same way have to be balanced Alchemists!! Also there won't be the problem of buffing foes.
Alchemists will simpley have only 2 different effects for they potions:

- those that deal damage or conditions to foes and ONLY FOES

- those that heal damage or conditions to allies and ONLY ALLIES

there simple won't be effects under their skills, which could accidently heal foes or damage allies - problem solved

As for the "offering more", you are right, that is your opinion.

If you like concept classes, which add nearly absolutely nothing new to the game..fine by mee, but I personally find this concept complete boring this way, when I do know, that an Alchemist Class could be about so much more things that would fit to the Class

- Homunculus Gameplay (As Counter Part to the rangers Pet System, slightly different..ranger is all about physical pets, alchemist would be about magical pets that are missing)

- Energy Synergizing (making the class the best Energy Management Supporter taking over the role of the Necro, so that Blood Rituals could become more interesting with a different role )

- General Item Mixing... all your concept is about pyrotechnics.. thats boring, when Alchemists could be about alot more interestign stuff they could be able to create.

Alchemists should be offering gameplay about all the pillars of item mixing typical alchemist stuff for fighting monsters, not just only pyrotechnics.

Alchemists have following pillars of stuff they create against foes:

- Pyrotechnics : everything that is about to burn, to explode, to implode ect pp.

- Acid: everything about different kinds of Acids that deal different kinds of conditions

- Materia: everything about different kinds of Metals creating, forming and changing at will.. hey Alchemists are they ones beign said, that are able to turn Iron into Gold you know ??? They are the ones which can let appear out of nothing metal by manipulating molecularic structures.

- Gravity: they are scientists, with their ability to control materia they are also able to control gravity

That are the 4 Pillars of the alchemist about skills which they would use against their foes, when you would create an aggressive Alchemist, that doesn't receive from you a Supporter Skill Build

This way would become an Alchemist alot more interesting to play, because it would offer to the gamer alot more, than just only the Potion Gameplay!!.

- Magical pets (Homunculi) - not being offered in GW1, would be new
- Gravity Manipulation - none GW1 class was able to do it
- Materia Creation - none GW1 class was able to do it
- Using Item Skills in 4 different ways against foes - none Class was able to do it.
Ritualist Item Skills gameplay can't be compared with that of the Alchemist, because the ritualist didn't throw its Ash Urns, they holded them or let it lay on the Ground.

As for the fusion thing... read the lore again... I took the professions that were buff in one way, buff a different way, buff a different way, ect... and modernized them all into one new form of buffing.

You are trying here to fusionize total different classes into 1 thing, which don't fit together, maybe just have only slight similaries in gameplay, like the ritualist with its Item Skills, or the Paragon with its role as Supporter (which is by far total different from the gameplay you would expect from an alchemist. An alchemist doesn't use shouts, chants and whatever ect.
Their Support Skills work differently and are by far not of earshot range!!!
They are of throwing range of your character. And throwing range is basically the distance of a spear throw from a paragon... (plus that distance that the primary attribute should give as bonus)

Your concept here looks to me, as if you would try to create a new fruit out of 4 different ones XD

You take here an apple, a banana, an ananas and a melon and try to make out of it a mixed fruit that could be called "chimera" lol
I hope you get the point about what i'm meaning with this XD.


As said.. Alchemists are scientists.. so should they come over also too and not like a class, which role is it only to heal others and to attack foes with pyrotechnics created out of black powder...

Pyrotechnics is more, than just only Black Powder.

Like actionjack says it (and I share his/her opinion as ive posted it also before) This concept feels being too flat, only potion throwing alone is too boring.

Think of something more to add to them, then your concept will be better.
Maybe you find a way to polish up your concept with something of mine or actionjacks concepts.

I used also some stuff of actionjack to improve mine concept already, guess when it can help me, then it can help you too

[Sabre Wolf]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Your concept here looks to me, as if you would try to create a new fruit out of 4 different ones XD

You take here an apple, a banana, an ananas and a melon and try to make out of it a mixed fruit that could be called "chimera" lol I hope you get the point about what i'm meaning with this XD.p

Ya, a Smoothie >.<

[Feathermoore]

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

Ya, a Smoothie >.<

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Just so you know....I just got kicked out of class I laughed so hard at this.

[Konig Des Todes]

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

Ya, a Smoothie >.<

/thread

no wait, /forum

Sabre, you win the "best response on forums" reward.

[Sabre Wolf]

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Sabre, you win the "best response on forums" reward.

::sniff:: Thank you

I would like to thank the Nolani Acadamy for this Award

[Lurker]

I'm glad we're appreciating jokes more than content.

As far as the concept goes, it's an interesting support class, similar to an E/Rt. You've got the mass conditioning (blindness/cracked armor/weakness spam from air eles) mixed into weapon spell styled skills. So all in all, a pretty standard defensive support caster in the style of an air E/Rt stand ele.

The only issue I might see is that it could have little use besides a blindbot (aka bitch ele). This would be dependent on the damage potential of the skills in Pyrotechnics or other areas: would you be able to provide some damage pressure or assist on spikes? This allows a little bit of versatility, and opens other possible roles (splits, etc).

However, I'm not entirely a fan of pinning everything to 'potions' when all skills prior were energy-based spells or adrenaline-based skills. It seems a redundant new mechanic (if it is one) or unnecessary renaming if it isn't.

[Sabre Wolf]

Originally Posted by Lurker

I'm glad we're appreciating jokes more than content.

I am hoping you are being sarcastic... because if you are not... I don't care to have a stick shoved up my butt 24/7.

Originally Posted by Lurker

As far as the concept goes, it's an interesting support class, similar to an E/Rt. You've got the mass conditioning (blindness/cracked armor/weakness spam from air eles) mixed into weapon spell styled skills. So all in all, a pretty standard defensive support caster in the style of an air E/Rt stand ele.

The only issue I might see is that it could have little use besides a blindbot (aka bitch ele). This would be dependent on the damage potential of the skills in Pyrotechnics or other areas: would you be able to provide some damage pressure or assist on spikes? This allows a little bit of versatility, and opens other possible roles (splits, etc).

No, there will be damage in that Pyrotechnics line. But with all this ability...you can have a blind bot/snare/buffer all on 1 player slot. Kiinda like a Water/Air Ele and a Para Buffer. So you have someone not dealing direct damage, but being one heck of a nuisance for the other team. Kinda like a Mesmer or a Necro, but w/o the rupts.

Originally Posted by Lurker

However, I'm not entirely a fan of pinning everything to 'potions' when all skills prior were energy-based spells or adrenaline-based skills. It seems a redundant new mechanic (if it is one) or unnecessary renaming if it isn't.

The potion idea was something more physical and malleable as opposed to something ethereal like magic and aura. But I get what you mean.

As for the energy... everything in GW1 (except adrenaline) was based off of energy. Every profession used it. I guess you could say energy is the amount of power or stamina you have to make an action beyond the normal movement or attack (action being a skill).

BTW, if this was ever implemented into the game... I would be afraid to say that this profession would due called the "Drug Dealer"

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

I am hoping you are being sarcastic... because if you are not... I don't care to have a stick shoved up my butt 24/7.

You reacted very harshly to that comment. It's not healthy to have such a stick up your butt.

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

No, there will be damage in that Pyrotechnics line, but with all this ability...you can have a blind bot/snare/buffer all on 1 player slot. So you have someone not dealing direct damage, but being one heck of a nuisance for the other team.

The E/Rt stand character could do that, but it could also support on spikes, pressure Frenzy users, and pressure. I don't like the idea of losing role versatility in new class idea, especially when the role replaces an existing setup in the meta. You could rely entirely on the secondary class, but that strains attributes.

Originally Posted by Sabre Wolf

The potion idea was something more physical and malleable as opposed to something ethereal like magic and aura. But I get what you mean.

Yeah, I get it, but how would it work with the other mechanics? We already have things that react differently to spells - would this class essentially be immune to interrupts? Adding another type (potion skills) would make things even more complicated.

[Sabre Wolf]

Originally Posted by Lurker

You reacted very harshly to that comment. It's not healthy to have such a stick up your butt.

I am not acting harshly... I just like to have fun. And that phrase means stuck up and proper at every moment of the day. And its true that acting as such constantly would be unhealthy.

Originally Posted by Lurker

The E/Rt stand character could do that, but it could also support on spikes, pressure Frenzy users, and pressure. I don't like the idea of losing role versatility in new class idea, especially when the role replaces an existing setup in the meta. You could rely entirely on the secondary class, but that strains attributes.

You said it yourself, Secondary Profs strains atts. But like I said, you still have some damage pressure in the Pyro line, so its there if you want to go that route.

Originally Posted by Lurker

Would this class essentially be immune to interrupts?

No, there is skill activation, so it can be rupted like any other profession in the game. Call it, "pulling out the potion and applying it". Paras, I would call, immune to rupts.

Originally Posted by Lurker

Adding another type (potion skills) would make things even more complicated.

Not if other like mechanics are removed from GW2.