Discussion on the Spirits of the Wild

[Sha Noran]

The Norn worship the animal spirits, so the animal spirits hook them up. Classic, really.

Now interesting discussion can be spawned from trying to determine who the animal spirits are and where they got such power that they can bestow such an awesome gift to their followers...

Mod Edit: I moved this post to its own thread from another to try to inspire a discussion on this topic, so please discuss.

[Konig Des Todes]

On the "why" aspect of the spirits being able to give the shape shifting powers to the norn. I'll be sticking with my old theory that the Spirits of the Wild are similar to the avatars and facets - mere representations of the gods, created by them (and all are ghostly as well). Reason for this connection is in a few things:

• In Raven's Point, the shrine to the Raven Spirit is right next to two statues to Grenth which boarder the door leading to the shrine.
• In the quest Wintersday Cheer, spirits and creatures are summoned from the Underworld, the Spirit of the Wild being called? Raven.
• Though this isn't really a good point, before I thought Wolf was tied to Melandru due to the hunting aspect, but since Wolf is a "he" and Balthazar is connected to wolves by human standards, I feel those two are the best connection between Spirits of the Wild and the Six Gods.
• A follow up of the three previous: Ravens are usually connected with death and wisdom, and likewise, Grenth, the God of Death, is connected to wisdom in some aspects as well (primarily seen in the House Durheim.
• A last conclusion, the Bear spirit (and the last that we know anything about) is considered both female and the "top" of the Spirits of the Wild - Dwayna, who's the leader of the gods.

Very loose support, but not much is known of the Spirits of the Wild or how they act still...

[Shew]

@Konig Gahhh. If I was at my house atm, I would look in the art book to double-check-- maybe someone will check for me--the statue page. I'm almost positive the statue of Balthazar has wolves at the base.

[Edge]

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

but since Wolf is a "he" and Balthazar is connected to wolves by human standards, I feel those two are the best connection between Spirits of the Wild and the Six Gods.

If you look at the statues in the Artbook that are on page 54, they sort of resemble Grenth (on the left) and Balthazar (on the right). They could be just normal statues, or new statues for the gods. But the statue on the right has wolves at its base. So that could link Balthazar with the wolf.

Edit: Shew

[Konig Des Todes]

Indeed, there are two statues of Balthazar in the Art of GW2 book, but that isn't the only case of Balthazar being shown with wolves. One other case is the dervish avatar - there are wolf heads on the shoulders.

[Feathermoore]

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Indeed, there are two statues of Balthazar in the Art of GW2 book, but that isn't the only case of Balthazar being shown with wolves. One other case is the dervish avatar - there are wolf heads on the shoulders.

Isn't there a mural somewhere with Balthy having a wolf?

[Shew]

So...:
Balthazar --> Wolf
Dwayna -- Bear
Grenth -- Raven
Lyssa -->
Melandru -->
Kormir (if she counts) -->

The only problem is that we don't know anything about the Snow Leopard spirit, and we'd be one or two (if Kormir is included) short.

[Konig Des Todes]

Not necessarily - there are the (still unconfirmed) Snow Lynx (believed to be retcon'd into Snow Leopard), Eagle (highly unlikely to still be around), Owl (perfect for the God/dess of Knowledge (Kormir/Abaddon)), Wurm, and Ox/Bison.

I think Owl is linked to Kormir/Abaddon, Wurm to Lyssa, which leaves Snow Leopard to Melandru. Though with two comments, Bison is bound to still be around. Which then creates the previous issue with this - there's too many spirits to be 1 to 1 with the gods...

[Shew]

You'd think each god/goddess (again, Kormir is questionable) would be associated with a primary spirit, though, and there are only four of those.

[Abbadon]

Originally Posted by Shew

You'd think each god/goddess (again, Kormir is questionable) would be associated with a primary spirit, though, and there are only four of those.

Or the spirits could all be under Melandru's control.

[Huginn]

Or my favorite, they aren't really connected with the gods in anyway

Leave my spirits alone!

"Norn have no need of more human influences. We are Norn!"

[Legion]

Originally Posted by Huginn

Or my favorite, they aren't really connected with the gods in anyway

Leave my spirits alone!

"Norn have no need of more human influences. We are Norn!"

I agree. The human gods should not be the only source of power os this world.

[Abbadon]

Originally Posted by Huginn

Or my favorite, they aren't really connected with the gods in anyway

Leave my spirits alone!

"Norn have no need of more human influences. We are Norn!"

Ok, I'm tired of all this "human gods" talk, the gods did the inhabitants of Tyria not just humans, but all the sentient races, a huge favour by giving them access to magic.

It doesn't matter if the Norn, Charr, Asuran or the Sylvari don't believe in them, because it doesn't take away their status or power.

As for the disdain that has been directed towards gods from the other races,those races must be thankful that the gods aren't as petty or jealous as the mortal races can be.

Cause I would love to see the gods return to Tyria and teach these lesser beings some respect.

[Huginn]

Originally Posted by Abbadon

Ok, I'm tired of all this "human gods" talk, the gods did the inhabitants of Tyria not just humans, but all the sentient races, a huge favour by giving them access to magic.

It doesn't matter if the Norn, Charr, Asuran or the Sylvari don't believe in them, because it doesn't take away their status or power.

As for the disdain that has been directed towards gods from the other races,those races must be thankful that the gods aren't as petty or jealous as the mortal races can be.

Cause I would love to see the gods return to Tyria and teach these lesser beings some respect.

I speak for my fellow norn when i say that, we know the gods exists, though, the lame ways the humans follow them is sickening for a norn. Humans go into battle praying that the battle would be won, while the Norn make the battle be won by... well, fighting

[Konig Des Todes]

Originally Posted by Legion

I agree. The human gods should not be the only source of power os this world.

They aren't. Elder Dragons, the True Gods (I refuse to call them "human gods" because there are far more than just humans which worship them), and the Mists.

The Mists is above everything, and could even be on par to Thalador's vision of a god (which is even greater than the typical monotheistic god).

Examples of races which worship the gods: Forgotten, Dwarves (Grenth and Dwayna, as shown via Wintersday NPCs and Ural Highstone), possibly Grawl, possibly Naga, possibly Centaurs, possibly Harpies, and possibly more that we don't know of.

We don't have any hint at what faith - if any - Tengu, Seer, Mursaat, Yeti, Hekets/Frogmen, Jotun, Djinn, Krait, Skales, and we don't even know if the semi-intelligent races or possibly intelligent races like Ettins, Fleshreavers, and others.

Originally Posted by Huginn

I speak for my fellow norn when i say that, we know the gods exists, though, the lame ways the humans follow them is sickening for a norn. Humans go into battle praying that the battle would be won, while the Norn make the battle be won by... well, fighting

I hope you know that for humans, their prayers are their spells. So without praying - in the humans' view - then there would only be Warriors and Rangers.

And please stop taking your desires to be facts and accept the evidence for the possibility of what you not wanting to be truth.

[Huginn]

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I hope you know that for humans, their prayers are their spells. So without praying - in the humans' view - then there would only be Warriors and Rangers.

And please stop taking your desires to be facts and accept the evidence for the possibility of what you not wanting to be truth.

I know it might be true yes and i do see you got valid points, but i still want an official statment from anet.

I got an expresion or maybe more like a thing I say when ppl can't see the truth. "It's like talking to a wall" I guess I'm that guy now huh?

[Konig Des Todes]

Just to note, I'm not against you disagreeing - I'm glad there's people who are. It's just that I am against you stating as a fact that I am wrong, with absolutely no support on your side.

[Edge]

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Not necessarily - there are the (still unconfirmed) Snow Lynx (believed to be retcon'd into Snow Leopard), Eagle (highly unlikely to still be around), Owl (perfect for the God/dess of Knowledge (Kormir/Abaddon)), Wurm, and Ox/Bison.

I think Owl is linked to Kormir/Abaddon, Wurm to Lyssa, which leaves Snow Leopard to Melandru. Though with two comments, Bison is bound to still be around. Which then creates the previous issue with this - there's too many spirits to be 1 to 1 with the gods...

I honestly doubt that, at most they may exist, but will not be selectable spirits. I think 4 the spirits we officially know will be the only 4. It appears each race is going to have a racial background choice of 4 links. (4 Kingdoms, 4 legions, 4 colleges, 4 seasons, 4 spirits)

Even if we do link the spirits with the gods, it doesn't necessarily mean that each god will have his or her own spirit. It's like Grenth and Balthazar having their own realm in GW, the other 4 may or may not have a realm, but it sure isn't accessible to players.

[draxynnic]

Heh. Once again today, it seems I've posted in the wrong thread...

Anyway, I'm going to agree with the speculation that Snow Leopard may be Melandru, although with a different justification: Because Melandru has shown an affinity for felines before (namely, the Melandru's Stalker).

Lyssa and Kormir, if they have analagous animal spirits at all, seem to be low on the totem pole, which makes sense when you think about it - their portfolios seem to be on the whole less important to the Norn, and those aspects of their portfolios that are seem to have been folded into the other animal spirits (Raven has trickery and cunning, Bear has wisdom).

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I hope you know that for humans, their prayers are their spells. So without praying - in the humans' view - then there would only be Warriors and Rangers.

I'm not sure I agree with this - Monks, Dervishes and Ritualists certainly seem to be fuelled by piety, but Mesmers, Elementalists and Necromancers seem to at least require some level of academic study. It strikes me that at least in the case of the latter three, the relevant gods may "open the door" to their followers, but members of those professions, and probably of all spellcasting professions regardless of some being referred to as "prayers", are actually wielding magic directly rather than begging miracles off the gods.

[Edge]

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I'm not sure I agree with this - Monks, Dervishes and Ritualists certainly seem to be fuelled by piety, but Mesmers, Elementalists and Necromancers seem to at least require some level of academic study. It strikes me that at least in the case of the latter three, the relevant gods may "open the door" to their followers, but members of those professions, and probably of all spellcasting professions regardless of some being referred to as "prayers", are actually wielding magic directly rather than begging miracles off the gods.

I think he references the fact that the gods gave Tyria the gift of magic itself. Without that gift it would cease to exist, and only cold steel would play a role in classes.