Discussion on Tyria (world)

[Calvar Draveir]

Now THAT's creative thinking. If Anet ever sees this, they should throw in a reference to that at GW2's first Wintersday.

and if it is, this means there could be some additional tweak to whatever magic that was used to cause it to manifest that prevents it from melting despite the ambient temperature being comfortable for locals wearing tropical outfits.

[Thalador Doomspeaker]

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Which comes to the second point, that there is only plantlife where there is puddles, ponds, and the like - at least with the northern half of the Maguuma. This suggests that the place is naturally arid and that there is, normally, not enough water from rain to create a wild jungle (whereas magical water can).

That's not correct. There're several references in-game and one in the manuscripts which prove that it's a naturally formed jungle with unnatural characteristics.

Originally Posted by The Guild Wars Manuscripts

Years ago, many tribes of human druids lived among the Maguuma's lush greenery and wildlife.
_____________________________

The higher elevations are mostly devoid of water. Only the largest and hardiest of plants can live here. But down farther, closer to the water table, the Maguuma grows thick. The vegetation can become so dense that there are areas of the jungle floor that have never been touched by the sun’s light.

Originally Posted by Druid's Overlook In-Game Description

Located in the dry upper region of the Maguuma Jungle

There has always been a large water table under the chasms and rifts of the land which has provided enough water for the vegetation to grow so thick that it "enshrouded" the jungle floor completely.

It's very viable that it was the bloodstone that made that table magical and bestowed those healing powers upon the water, however, there's a line in Bloodstone Fen's description that makes me doubt it:

Originally Posted by Bloodstone Fen In-Game Description

Not even the voracious vegetation of the Maguuma will grow upon its surface.

[Konig Des Todes]

None of that says the landscape is natural, actually. It just says that there is no water at the top. Which then one must ask: Why? If there is rain then the water would flow down, giving some water to the top - that area isn't that steep. But what if rain wasn't very rare? Then that would explain how it doesn't stay at the top - it dries up too quickly for the amount of rain given, but the water on the bottom, which have magical properties, would be able to help plants grow enough even with little water. Though in turn, the more plants that grow, the thicker the vegetation, and the less arid it becomes.

[Thalador Doomspeaker]

Not exactly. A water table is constant in the meaning that it's always there - unless something drastic happens -, while of course it changes because it fluctuates a lot. Also, if there's a water table it also means that there are large amounts of underground water that can create and maintain such a large vegetation. Also, the water pours down into those chasms/rifts, so there's the first reason why there isn't too much water at the upper regions. The second is, that it's a jungle so I think it's not too hard to believe that those areas are very hot -> the remaining water quickly vaporizes. Then, there are still some plants - mainly a few trees (the stoneroot tree in Ventari's Refuge for example) and other xerophyte plants - which soak up that small water that has not vaporized or poured down into the "chasms" yet.

And when the bloodstone "came into the picture", it affected the water table by making it magical. Which of course could mean that the magical water accelarated the growth, although the Maguuma Jungle was a jungle much before the bloodstone crashed into it.

[Shadow Wanderer]

i dont know if this should be posted somewhere else or if u guys already have seen it but

heres the map of tyria in its final form

[Konig Des Todes]

Moved your post over here since it doesn't deal with dragons.

That map is actually a fan-made map based on given lore and is not the official large-scale map. We don't know what is west of Tyria and north of Elona, or if the distance between Cantha and Tyria/Elona on that map is correct. So it isn't absolute like you seem to think based on your words, and is definably not Tyria's "final form."

[Bergil Sunfyre]

A lot of people have speculated about where the water in the lower maguuma came from. I have an idea about that. Notice that there is a mountain to the north of the Maguuma, and that the tarnished coast is fairly high up, and the river in Riven Earth seems to flow northwest. With that in mind, I suspect that the lagoons in the Maguuma Jungle could be fed by rivers flowing through it to Kryta and the sea. We even know of one such river, the Ullen.

[Joiry]

Okay, I've caught up on this thread. Unfortunately, having read it all in one sitting, I may inadvertently mash some things up written by different people.

On Elona. I've travelled a bit in both Kenya and in Southern Africa (Namibia, S. Africa, Zimbabwe), tho the trips to the two regions were separated by 4-5 years. Despite one being Equitorial, and the other being down around the Tropic of Capricorn (and about 7 degrees north and south of it), they can have very similar environments. The savannahs I saw in both areas looked similar, and held much of the same wildlife, and of course, both resembled Elonian regions. Namibia has the Namib desert, but also inland (see that bit in the NE that sticks out between several other countries) quite the lush jungle.

My point would be, its very possible (basing on our world) for Elona to be significantly above the equator, more up in the region of the Tropic of Cancer, which kinda corresponds to the middle east. This, if you're basing your general climate on latitude relative to the equator or poles.

Konig, way earlier on, brought up Ascalon's name deriving from Ashkelon, which is an arid location nowadays. He brought it up for a totally different reason, but it reminded me of something I learned in my middle eastern archeology class, which is, the Levant used to be a much greener and fertile region in biblical times (if I'm remembering right, it has been, er, more than a decade since that class). My point here is, even at the same latitude, altitude above sea level, and basically the same place, climate can change a lot over time (in this case, just a few thousand years).

The wiki entry on Cantha states it is south of both Tyria and Elona, but in the Factions manuscripts, it only states south of Tyria (of course, it also predates the release of NF). I'm curious, is there any other direct evidence that Cantha is south of Elona as well? Much of China is at the same latitude as the middle east, which I've pointed out, is at the same distance from the equator as regions in southern africa which have the flora and fauna which inspired most of Elona. Seems to me Cantha could be more to the southwest of Tyria (the continent), possibly at the same latitude as Elona, or even a bit higher (depending on the true size of the Crystal Desert, and how great the north-south distance between Tyria and Elona.

[Konig Des Todes]

For the location of Cantha compared to Elona, Cantha is across the Unending Ocean while Elona is just across the desert (still connected by land) and Jotaro (sp?) in Istan says Cantha is southwest of Istan, while Cantha is said to be directly south of Kryta.

The distance, however, is unknown.

[draxynnic]

Joiry,

You're correct, the Fertile Crescent used to be more fertile than it is now (partially explaining the term). In fact, some archeoecologists have pointed at overfarming to explain why it isn't so fertile any more.

I've generally considered Elona to be roughly equatorial due to Cantha being further south while (apparently) being cooler. Of course, how much this is necessary depends on just how far south Cantha is. Looking purely at climate, I'd expect Cantha to be more south of the equator than the Far Shiverpeaks lattitude is north (Shing Jea has snow fairly close to sea level, while the Verdant Cascades appear to be a subtropical rainforest), although as you say, this could be due to other factors such as prevailing sea and wind currents.

[Konig Des Todes]

A recent concept art found to be for GW2:



I hope that it will be in game and if so it will solve the issue of whether Tyria is a globe or flat, and the solar system as well (hopefully). Looks cool as well - wonder if it moves.

Is it just me, or does the closer planet have land masses which look like bits of the map? Where there are just two rings intersecting to make a tilted x, it looks like that is the area of the Crystal Desert - to the right is Elona with a landmass looking like Istan, and to the left looks like the Sea of Sorrows and Tarnished Coast. But there's no land south of it...

Maybe I'm just seeing things... need a bigger image. But I wouldn't doubt that to be Tyria - it is in the center and that would fit the old idea of Earth being in the center of the solar system. Doesn't look like the bottom is ice covered either... Maybe Tyria is smaller than we thought with no southern ice cap? I dunno, just thoughts on what I see in a concept art...

[Corsair]

That, is one of the most interesting pieces of concept art for GW2 that I have seen... Perhaps an it is located in an observatory in Divinity's Reach. The tech certainty doesn't look Asuran or Charr. I also see what you are getting at with seeing Tyria and Elona, but we might only be seeing it because we are looking for it.

If this is an at all accurate globe of Tyria(world), then Cantha would not simply be south if Tyria(continent) but south west, because I can't make out any thing that might be Cantha.

I really hope something like this makes it into the game, it looks like a wondrous contraption and would give the player community a chance to know roughly what the whole of Tyria, and perhaps the solar system, look like.

[Imrahil Greywood]

Was it confirmed Guild Wars 2 concept art ? or just in the slide show?

[Konig Des Todes]

It was in the slide show which is 100% GW art (there were like 4 or 5 GW1 artworks - most of which were EN, with one NF and one Sorrow's Furnace that I saw/recognized), and @ Corsair, due to the word "Orrery" I'm guessing it's in Orr (perhaps an area which didn't sink during the cataclysm), though it may be among the Orrian's grotto in Divinity's Reach.

[Ravious]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orrery

[Konig Des Todes]

Never knew it was called such... Huh. But if it is in the game, then it will most definably be moving, since "An orrery is a mechanical device that illustrates the relative positions and motions of the planets and moons in the solar system in a heliocentric model." Really hoping it is making it into the game, but since it is concept art, well that image won't be accurate, so can't derive anything from it for now...

[Joiry]

Well, the wiki article says orreries are heliocentric. Tho, as concept art, they can do as they please. The central globe could be the Tyria system star. The dark area could just be in shadow (tho the shine makes that a bit of a stretch, the rings may be darkening stuff). Or maybe its bronze tarnish.

I can't make out the words. To the left of the shine spot its IOTH? Or maybe the TH is part of THE (depending on how I focus). The letters to the right, red tinted, could be GLOB, as in globe. But my eyes keep mashing the O and B together.

The planet to the left of the center globe looks to have blue and green areas, tho they do not look like Tyrian continents (maybe, a little if you squint). Tho, it does have 2 moons and a ring, which we have not seen on Tyria. Then again, the skies where never well detailed.

One interesting thing is there is an empty globe socket with some moons around it. Theft? Or a mysterious object in the night sky?

Ultimately, if there is a giant orrery in the game, I suspect the concept art is more to establish the overall look of its design, rather than accuracy of the individual celestial bodies.

[Mr.Freakmaster]

Someone else noticed the multiple ''orbits'' or whatever they are around the object in the centre? Perhaps it has multiple chaotically spread asteroid belts?

IF we accept that the middle orb IS Tyria, than we can notice one more planet which looks as if it has favorable conditions for life on it - the one behind the ''empty'' slot.

[Konig Des Todes]

@Joiry: Didn't notice those letters before. Can't really make them out, and they don't look like they could be any location on Tyria.

I noticed that empty globe socket, I figured it was like Pluto or something - tiny planets that are extremely close to each other (possibly even causing a circular motion by repelling off of each other but yet also pulling towards each other, while revolving around the bigger planet in the center).

Originally Posted by Joiry

Ultimately, if there is a giant orrery in the game, I suspect the concept art is more to establish the overall look of its design, rather than accuracy of the individual celestial bodies.

I was thinking that too, the planet in the center, if it is Tyria, may just be done to be "roughly" similar to it, not accurate. Which is why it looks like a distorted sea or sorrows+elona+istan, but no cantha and the like.

@Mr.Freakmaster: There are a total of three spheres which look like planets that are inhabitable - the largest center one, the one you mentioned, and the one to the upper left of the center one, which has two distinct colors (and a tip that looks similar to south america).

Not sure what you mean by the "orbits" - do you mean the rings? Or that the other planets are connected to the piece of the center globe?

[Corsair]

I'm hoping this might turn into a dynamic night sky system in GW2, where we can see the planets and moons and stars at night, that change through the course of the year. It would give a little more meaning to having this here, other than the oooh aaaah factor. A possible reason why the continents might be misrepresented, is because old maps were terribly distorted from not having an accurate clock, or any clock at all. So the latitudes are most likely accurate, while the longitudes could be rather off.