The Mists and Planetary Formation.

[Gmr Leon]

A brief introduction to the Mists.

Originally Posted by The Manuscripts

Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe—the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place.

Originally Posted by The Manuscripts

The protomatter that makes up the Mists strains toward creation, often spawning demonic creations in nightmarish forms. Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic, however. When the Mists come into contact with a suitable human template, for example, it can copy that form, creating a sentient entity with a humanoid appearance and an almost human mind.

An overview of planetary formation.



In our universe, this is a (poorly done) diagram of star formation and the, sometimes, resulting planetary formation. I'll explain the process as I understand it below, and any astronomers or astrophysicists better versed in it can correct me on any points as they see fit. Skipping over the Big Bang area, stars form from interstellar clouds called nebula, which are clouds of various materials, dust, gas, that sort of stuff. As time proceeds, these materials begin to clump together due to gravity, as shown in the second image, eventually getting to the point of a protostellar core surrounded by an accretion disk, which is a ring of materials that are attracted to the core due to gravity, and make it into a protostar, shown in the third, fourth, and fifth images. During the formation of a protostar, as the materials collapse into themselves forming, well, the protostar and its core, but, as this occurs, bipolar outflows begin from the collapsing materials, basically, jettisoning some of the materials, with whatever is left existing in the accretion disk and forming part of the protostar.

At any rate, eventually the protostar may become a star like our own, once nuclear fusion initiates in its core, producing the outward forces that maintain its spherical form and the ultraviolet light and heat that we are quite familiar with. After the accretion phase ceases, that is, the buildup of the star via surrounding materials, and the bipolar outflows cease, there is yet another disk of materials left around the star. These materials may or will become planets around the end of the star's formation, and whatever is left after that will just be interstellar debris such as asteroids and comets and the like.

Why on Tyria this matters.

The reason for the previous explanation is simple. The Mists are much unlike the materials in our universe, they actually strain towards creation and can copy existing creatures to make a somewhat similar creature. Now, one could say that this is in fact a very interesting similarity with our universe due to floating materials forming into stars and planets and, given the right circumstances, life, but this is rather not the case. In our case, gravity is God. It is because of gravity that the materials clump together and form stars and planets. However, Tyria also displays this characteristic, as when a character jumps or an arrow is shot, it always comes down, thus gravity is not the only crafter in our game of existence.

In our universe, cores are either hot and liquid, or solid. This is essentially due to a variety of factors that I can only speculate on due to my lack of knowledge in the matter, but I would imagine it's due to the high amount of pressure and gravity involved. Now, this may also, and probably is, due to the materials that play a part in the planet's composition, which leads me into my next point.

At the very start, we have an intriguing description that I think is essential to our understanding of Tyria's universe, the protomatter of the Mists. The very definition of Proto is:

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

A combining form meaning “first,” “foremost,” “earliest form of,” used in the formation of compound words (protomartyr; protolithic; protoplasm).

This goes in line with our understanding from the Prophecies Manuscripts, that is, the Mists being the origin of all things. Yet this may also imply that the Mists is not exactly matter, in other words, a ghost matter, likely the ether that was proposed in our own universe as a cosmological constant. This drastically changes things if this is the case, and due to its properties, may also affect the formation of the planets and the stars in some manner. Another way of saying this is, if you're well versed in the old theories surrounding ether or aether, then please, if you can think of anything that may be relevant, feel free to posit it, as I am only mildly versed in the etheric universe models.

Attempting to understand the properties of the Mists.

Let us accept, for the sake of discussion, that the Mists have formed matter in its forms as we know them in our own universe. These are, solid, liquid, gas, and plasma. As such, we have the appropriate materials to form a universe similar to our own. Let also accept the basic forces existing as we know them in our universe, these being, electromagnetic, strong nuclear, weak nuclear, and gravitational forces. Again, these permit us the forces to form a universe similar to our own, assuming our understanding of our universe is correct.

Now, the only wrench in the gears so far then, is the Mists. We have very little understanding of them as a whole, but we might be able to speculate that they interact with the forces of gravity and electromagnetism. I say gravity due in part towards its characteristic of straining towards creation, and electromagnetism due to its apparent ghostly nature and the descriptions of it pervading all things and its ability to bind together everything, past, present, and future. In the case of electromagnetism, it could simply be another wavelength of electromagnetic radiation, and may explain the peculiar comments of Asura and some Ritualists.

For example:

Originally Posted by Kerrsh

I believe I see the gears of the Eternal Alchemy spinning before me. I feel I can almost reach out and turn them with my hands.

Originally Posted by Kerrsh

The wavelength patterns here are clearly different from the first cipher. But what does it mean? Perhaps the answer lies in that which is alike, or that which is different. I require more ciphers before it will become clear.

Originally Posted by Kerrsh

The Divination will make an impression of the signature from the energy released.

Originally Posted by Kerrsh

What's that you ask? How does the Divination work? It's nothing elaborate. It interprets the frequencies inherent in divine energies, and...why am I explaining this to you?

Originally Posted by Kerrsh

I am beginning to understand. There are so many pieces, so many variables, no wonder I haven't seen this before. These ciphers were the strings on the harp of the Eternal Alchemy itself. If only I could pluck them with my fingers. We are nearly there, friend.

Originally Posted by Headmaster Quinn

I have felt a great disturbance along the spirit threads. The spirits tell me that someone has allowed a demon to cross into the material realm.

Originally Posted by Jakimo

I was trying an advanced spirit-binding ritual; I know I should not have attempted it, I have not the skill...but I felt an intense surge along the spirit threads unlike anything I have ever felt before, and I think it had little to do with my poor skill. It was a powerful evil, and its presence was enough to bring the spirit I was binding into the material realm, where it has been running amok ever since!

This may hint at Ritualists having a heightened sense of the Mists, with the best being blind, as their body compensates not only with their natural senses being better, but their sense of the Mists being naturally better. Of course, the sense of the Mists may in and of itself be a natural sense to inhabitants of Tyria's universe, but for the sake of description, I will distinguish that sense from the natural senses.

In the Asura, it may be an inherent adaptation that all of them are highly adept at seeing the Mists, thus leading to their more advanced comprehension of its nature. The size of their eyes may not be only due to the darkness, but to permit them to see the otherwise invisible, or near invisible, wavelength of the Mists radiation, assuming it is similar to electromagnetic radiation.

Another reason I propose it being affected by electromagnetism is the ability to replicate something after it comes into contact with a suitable template. When visible light hits us, some of it is absorbed and the rest bounces off, and if we happen to be in front of a mirror, we can see an exact image of ourselves in it because of the light that bounces off us, hits it, bounces off, and our eyes receive the light and our brain translates the image into something sensible. I think I'm poorly explaining this, but basically, we see objects because of the light that bounces off of them, and we see ourselves in mirrors due to light bouncing off ourselves, being refracted by the mirror, then going into our eyes and our brains process it to see what we see.

Anyway, the point is, the Mists appears to have an intriguing property akin to that of a mirror, but actually being able to, almost precisely, replicate what it reflects, right down to the mental level, in a three dimensional, physical, form. What may be proceeding here may occur on the quantum or atomic level, in that the photons that bounce off of whatever is being reflected or just in general and pass through the Mists, during which, if there is a large enough amount of the Mists present, or the reflection is accurate enough, the Mists may begin replicating the object or individual in some manner as it soaks in the data received from the photons.

However, this would seem to be a rare case, as we've only interacted with one such product in the form of Razah. So, what does this mean? Does this mean that only humans have come into contact with the Mists? Does this suggest that for some reason, the Mists are attracted to the human form? I think this may imply that Odran was in fact a human, and in his explorations, came into contact with the Mists themselves, perhaps unwittingly as he went from place to place. As otherwise, the Mists should be making near precise duplicates of all creatures, I think, and to some extent, it appears to have done so, except in the form of demons. Although this latter case is unclear as to whether or not it was simply tampering on the part of their formation by Abaddon. The first and foremost example of this that comes to mind is the Spear of Torment and its similarity to Centaurs.

Ex.

A core of Mist.

This is where things get even mistier, unfortunately, as what if planets do in fact contain parts of the Mists themselves in their cores, alongside the natural matter itself? Such as magma or solid rock. I have several thoughts in relation to this that may further our comprehension of the matter at hand. The first scenario is a barren world with the right composition for life, and a liquid core with the Mists. This is due to several basic factors, one of which being the magnetic field produced by the core that helps repel some of the local star's radiation, if I'm not mistaken. The second is, Tyria has life, thus it simply makes more sense to ponder on the effects of a Mists core in relation to a world with the right composition for life. These set aside, here are my several proposed models.

Model 1, depicts normal life forms and the Mists core's effects on the planet.



I suspect, that, much like the core produces a magnetic field around a planet, the Mists core produces another field, protecting the world from random interaction with the Mists, producing duplicates of species that formed on the planet, and demon appearances. Of course, I imagine there are weak points in this Mists field that permit demons to slip through, either naturally formed or artificially created, from on the planet itself, or within the Mists itself. On this sort of planet, magic would not exist, due to the balanced Mists field, and the equal distribution of the Mists energy from the core in every living specimen. In other words, this would be a world similar to our own, except that souls would definitively exist, as the Mists energy distributed in every organism is its soul of sorts.

This is supported through the flora in Tyria having some level of intelligence and the Pale Tree from which the Sylvari were born.

Model 2, depicts abnormal life forms and the Mists core's effects on the planet.



This appears to be Tyria's scenario, prior to the Gods arrival. You still have the Mists field, but the irregularity lies in the existence of creatures that feed off the Mists within the core of the world. I suspect that life may form on a planet even with a depleted level of Mists within, but, I think it is hindered greatly by this lessened amount. Technically, it's even a mistake to say it's lessened or depleted, as in reality, it is simply refocused. These creatures, in Tyria's case, seem to be the Elder Dragons themselves, and the only hint at this is the descriptions of their interactions with Tyria prior to and after their awakening. That is, their breathing life into the elements themselves, twisting land into minions and water into tentacled horrors.

This coincides with the general information on the Mists straining towards creation, and in the case of life's formation, advanced evolution, possibly explaining complex life forms on an otherwise young planet.

Model 3, a world artificially created or altered by external forces.



This is present world Tyria, excluding the Elder Dragons due to lack of thought of them at the time of this model's creation. The Mists field has been compromised in this case, through some intervention of the Gods. After the Elder Dragons went into slumber, I suspect the world went into a Model 1 state for a time, life forming, slowly, still at a much faster rate than we observe in our universe, and eventually came to the point we see it today. Magic may have existed in these earlier times, but to a very small extent, and it was likely that being emitted from the Elder Dragon's overabundance, if it did. However, it may also have been simply the intelligence of the races of the planet that permitted them to tap into the Mists, allowing them a basic knowledge and usage of magic, as seen in the case of Ritualists' works, and, as we may learn more of the Asura, their works,

What happened after the Gods arrival, however, was messing everything up. Quite literally. I suspect their gift of magic was, in fact, a violation of the Mists field, introducing the Mists almost directly with the world of Tyria itself. With this made possible, every creature could use an unlimited amount of magic to whatever extent they were capable. The Gods, perhaps unwittingly, recreated themselves in the races of Tyria for a brief time, and all Hell broke free. We all, hopefully, know how this turned out by now.

The Gods, as their final act, did a great favor for the world, where they poked holes in the Mists field, they seem to have patched it up via the Bloodstones. However, much, much more damage had been done than they could have possibly imagined. Whereas in the Prophecies Manuscripts it says:

Originally Posted by Prophecies Manuscripts

As their final act, the gods gathered back their gift of magic from all the races and trapped it inside a tall stone.

I don't think the Gods could withdraw the gift, even if they truly wanted to. No, I think the Mists that were permitted through the Mists field as part of their violations remained between the Mists field and Tyria, possibly creating strange new creatures, or, perhaps, giving some unknown creatures the energy they needed to awaken, or some unknown God the threshold he needed to interact with the world. In these two cases, I believe the remnant Mists were utilized in one case unconsciously, and in the other, very consciously, and very meticulously. In the latter, I believe Abaddon used this to help bring about Nightfall, with the rituals Varesh did simply weakening the Mists field that one bit more he needed to bring it about.

In the unconscious case, I suspect that the Elder Dragons have slowly been absorbing the remnant Mists into themselves, much like they may have absorbed the Mists within the Mists core of Tyria. This explains why they radiate magic as they do, despite the abundance of life focusing the Mists core's energies in the living specimens. The Elder Dragons have absorbed as much as they can from the Mists core, and exhausted it on to the world advancing the formation of other life, but, when Abaddon brought about the Jade Wind, Searing, and Cataclysm, and the Gods broke through the Mists field, all of these reintroduced a large amount of the Mists energy inherent in the core in one form or the other. In the case of the disasters, the sudden abundance of souls in Tyria could not possibly have been managed entirely, and there were likely cases where the souls dissipated back into the Mists core, being absorbed by the Elder Dragons. In the other scenario, I've already explained my thoughts.

In summation.

This is my current hypothesis on the properties and effects on planetary formation of the Mists. That is, the Mists, regardless of being protomatter, are affected by gravity and thus are integrated into a planet or star's composition in some manner, and may actually be seen to some extent, implying, possibly, a very mild electromagnetic emission of sorts, much like seen in determining material compositions via spectrometers. Likewise, this Mists core may generate a Mists field, in much the way an ordinary liquid core generates a magnetic field.

Alongside this, the Mists core emits energy that, as a property of the Mists itself towards creation, advances the evolution of life forms on a planet, albeit possibly with some abnormalities in the process. These abnormalities being creatures such as the Elder Dragons, which actually draw from the Mists core's energy, hindering the otherwise hastened evolution of other organisms. However, given a large enough Mists core, this could easily not be the case, I suspect. Nevertheless, intervention with this energy can produce unpleasant consequences, seen in the case of the Gods arrival and possible violation of the Mists field, permitting an overflow of the Mists around Tyria creating disastrous results. Although a sudden thought is that it may also be possible that the divergence of souls to an afterlife may have also affected this, as an additional aspect of this hypothesis is that the souls ordinarily return to the Mists core, so that new life may be produced.

[4thVariety]

We surely have come a long way from the original excuse of a higher dimension in the world explaining how people from different servers can play together. Of course once you have the technology to pack people from different servers into the same PvP area the question is why you are not doing the same with PvE guys. Hence GW exists the way it does and has a nice piece of legacy lore: the mists of creation. The excuse why people from different server can play together.

From Big Bang to Planets in a hurry: (so you can fit the mists in there)
High energy, very high density [not necessarily unlimited], called the continuum. Expression of energy (?) to extend time dimension (?) beyond Planck length. [TBH, insert your Nobel price winning theory on quantum gravitation here], beginning of the concept of "processes", beginning of gravity, expression of three more dimensions tied to the first, also three more forces split off from [Insert your other Nobel price winning theory on unified force here]. Equal distribution of energy across the newly created space, cooldown of the energy into matter (Hydrogen). Start nuclear fusion of hydrogen (first sun so to speak), burns until fusion transformed core into iron, explodes into supernova, pressure of supernova creating elements higher than iron (anything with more than 24 on the table of elements), pieces of the first sun the size multiple galaxies scattered around, repetition of the process. New sun creation and new supernovae form until they explore again, this time into pieces "only" the size of our galaxy. This giant dust cloud collapses into black hole at its middle, puts the whole galaxy-sized dust cloud into a spinning motion, this allows new stars to form such as our sun with the Earth safely tucked into an orbit. Still following? Fast forward 4 billion years and people at Cern complain that there is no theory of everything they can fit into a Twitter post such as this: "@Obama Dude, no Higgs, Universe 100% Energy. Internal Gravity = 0. Need more money to punch hole in universe #worldleaders"

Now everybody can bend this into fantasy according to his/her fetish. We can blame the mists for making that initial energy deposit, or breaking the Planck length of this mystical continuum. We can have an ancient dragon be the first sun exploding into pieces seeding more dragons insides all the stellar bodies of the universe eating up each other.

My suggestion is to start the GW universe the same as ours. Take this unified force at the beginning of time in the GW universe and split it similar to our universe into electromagnetism, strong interaction, weak interaction and gravitation. Then suggest there is a fifth fundamental interaction called Magic and be done. If you say the mists inflated this GW universe, splitting its unified force into these five fundamental interactions, you are safe WHATEVER lore you put on top of that.

[Gmr Leon]

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

My suggestion is to start the GW universe the same as ours. Take this unified force at the beginning of time in the GW universe and split it similar to our universe into electromagnetism, strong interaction, weak interaction and gravitation. Then suggest there is a fifth fundamental interaction called Magic and be done. If you say the mists inflated this GW universe, splitting its unified force into these five fundamental interactions, you are safe WHATEVER lore you put on top of that.

That's what I was considering, but unless we suppose that the demon-spawning, organism copying nature of the Mists is under the fifth interaction of Magic, I couldn't see how it would properly coincide.

[Rivenheart]

As much as I like reading these types of things, and you obviously put a lot of work in here, sometimes things are better left unknown. I don't know of anyone who was particularly happy when Lucas tried to explain the Force is Episode I.

[Gmr Leon]

I think the fault in that case was the medium used. You can't exactly fit an excellent explanation of something like the Force in a movie without it becoming too long (and philosophical).

[Mustache Mayhem]

the kurzicks would probably know best what the mists is about.. like in your picture of the man becoming razah- but from what I remember razah is snatched from a place inside the gate of torment.. the forgotten are there, as well as the red haired yeti (they morph into margonites I believe)

the touch of dhumm comes from the mists as well.. like a micheal jackson touch move

[Gmr Leon]

Er..I should have elaborated on that example. That was meant to demonstrate that should one of the organisms on the left pass through, and, as such, interact with the Mists, it could potentially duplicate them at some later time.

[draxynnic]

Copy-pasting from equivalent thread in Druid's Overlook:

Originally Posted by Me

The real-world physics looks good to my viewpoint. Maybe a few simplifications, but no glaring errors that I noticed.

Regarding aether theories: The aether initially became a serious theory when Maxwell demonstrated that light was an electromagnetic wave and calculated its speed of propogation. At the time, all known waves were waves in some medium - waves in water, sound waves in air, and so on - so the logical conclusion was that there had to be some universal medium throughout the observed universe for the aforementioned electromagnetic waves to propogate through. That's basically it - a mysterious substance that suffuses everything that serves as the medium for electromagnetic phenomena to manifest.

So yes, if the Mists are related in any way to the concept of the aether, then it is very closely bound to electromagnetism - under such a theory, electromagnetic phenomena basically are waves and currents in the Mists.

If we're looking at real-world scientific creation theories, some hypothesise that there was "something" that existed before the universe appeared, some portion of which underwent a phase change and became, well, our universe (a theory that allows for other universes to exist). The Mists could slot quite easily into this role, although I'm not sure they can be the aether and protouniverse... stuff simultaneously.

That said, though, I think my attitude towards 4thVariety's insistence that a fantasy world must have exactly the same physical processes as our own with magic apparently just bolted on to the side is well documented.

[4thVariety]

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The Mists could slot quite easily into this role, although I'm not sure they can be the aether and protouniverse... stuff simultaneously.

So the master of magic is putting restriction on what magic can do? Here I thought it was magic and required no further explanation.

Please note that protomatter is a SciFi term with no real world equivalent. Even if there was "proto matter" one mus assume it as some unstable form of high energy that given the chance will at best cool down to Hydrogen.

The GW lore on this topic is basically: "guess what, this protomatter stuff is for realz and it can transform into any atomic structure". It's the building blocks of GW magic so to speak. Magic being a phenomenon behaving along arbitrary rules necessary for containing the story and rules of the game. Also a point that kindly asks you to stop further investigations. But clearly we are beyond that mindset, so hell yeah, let's put science and BS in a blender and see where we are going. Some form of GW entertainment you do when there is no way to play GW or the Pugs at the temple suck.

[Mustache Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Gmr Leon

Er..I should have elaborated on that example. That was meant to demonstrate that should one of the organisms on the left pass through, and, as such, interact with the Mists, it could potentially duplicate them at some later time.

ah I see.. that's deep =]

[Rivenheart]

Any thoughts on the Doppelganger fitting into the mists?

[Operative 14]

I've always pictured the mists as follows (well not always >_> ).

First and foremost as a meta dimensional medium in which individual 'universes' exist. This is borrowing from a quantum theory whose name I can't remember. It is the medium in which the Tyrian universe and the UW universe, and so on, exist as separate bubbles. Tyria is in a bubble with a reality like our own, in which they live in a universe of billions of galaxies, trillions of suns, and quintillions of planets. Hence why you can see other stars in the nights sky. The UW is like a smaller bubble that resides elsewhere in the mists.

In the interior of a bubble-verse, the mists are like Dark Matter in our own universe. It's there, it suffuses the entire universe, and it exerts a force, just that you can't see it. The difference is that you can tap into it using 'magic' and use it to exert your will on the universe, like using your arms to move water particles to swim in a pool. Just mental (telekinetic) exertion instead of purely physical exertion.

I don't think the mists revolve around Tyria or in the way you show with those diagrams. I think the mists are there, regardless of planets. It's just that on Tyria life is able to tap into the mists that suffuse the entire universe. It is possible that the mists might be gathered into pockets, like matter and energy in our own universe and I would assume Tyria's as well. That might be why you have floating rocks in some places, on a planet scale the Riven Earth area might have a high concentration of mists; on a solar scale Tyria might be sitting in a dense pocket of mists, elsewhere in the galaxy and the Tyriaverse there might be planets like Earth with no magical aptitude because they live in voids of mist. I don't, however, think that that means the mists are concentrated on Tyria because it is a planet, just that the planet happens to be where the mists are concentrated.

[Gmr Leon]

Er..I wasn't attempting to show that the Mists orbit around Tyria in the diagrams, that was meant to be kind of like space around a planet. However, it is an interesting idea that it may simply be that Tyria is in a high-Mists-concentration zone in this case, rather than it being as I have proposed.

[Operative 14]

The way I understood it was that you were proposing that the planet Tyria has some sort of concentration of the mists in the core because it was a planet, and the mists sort of amalgamated along with the rock and other materials that came from the planets formation. This would then mean that the mists would be part of the geo-dynamo and they would create a kind of mist-field around the planet (like an electro-magnetic field).

When I said revolve I didn't mean a literal orbit, I meant like the world revolves around an arrogant person. The Mists aren't there because there is a planet, the planet has nothing to do with it and there is nothing in the planet that creates the mists. I meant to say that the mists are there, but only because the planet happens to be there at the same time. Basically, the model shouldn't be centric to the planet Tyria with the mists thrown into the mix, but rather concentrate on the mists themselves with the planet thrown into the mix.

[Gmr Leon]

First part, yeah, that's more or less what I was saying. Second part, that was a misunderstanding on my end then, as while I was thinking of this I also thought of it in relation to dark matter in our own universe. See, I was still thinking of it in terms of the Mists are all over, pervading everything, and that sort of thing, but, I was also thinking that, since they're a bit of everything, and it seems as though they may be affected by gravity, that they'd be integrated into the planet.

Not that the planet itself creates the Mists or something of that sort. The Mists are just kind of separated into the planet as part of the planet's own little ecosystem during its formation.

If I'm understanding properly, that is.

[draxynnic]

(Some of this is a little rough, for which I apologise. Computer died while I was writing it the first time, and it never flows as well when I have to rewrite from memory. Annoyingly, it died just as I was trying to save what I had against the possibility of it doing exactly that. )

Originally Posted by 4THVariety

So the master of magic is putting restriction on what magic can do? Here I thought it was magic and required no further explanation.

It can't simultaneously be a direct analogue to both scientific (if discredited, in the case of the aether) theories. One was a theorised 19th-century medium that electromagnetic waves passed through and that suffused everything (or at least everything that electrmagnetic radiation could pass through). The other is a theorised incredibly dense, high-energy state that was literally hotter than the Big Bang underwent a phase change as it cooled to become our universe (not only the energy and matter within the universe, but the space as well), the properties of which we can only guess at. Even without considering that the two theories are about a century apart, you really can't have a material that is simultaneously everywhere and hotter than anything in the known Universe. We'd... well, the only way we could be in a universe filled with pre-Big Bang exotic matter-energy is if the Big Bang hadn't happened yet.

That said, it is plausible that you could have a material that serves as an aether in low densities, but which could give birth to planets or even universes in high densities. In fact, this wouldn't be all that much different from high-energy photons converting to particle-antiparticle pairs and back. So you could have it be an aether and a protomatter, just not a protomatter that behaves in the same manner as the pre-Big Bang energy state did.

Idly, to answer the question you really meant, however sarcastically put: Just because Tyria doesn't need to follow the same physical laws as our universe does doesn't mean it can't be self-consistent within the laws it does follow.

Please note that protomatter is a SciFi term with no real world equivalent. Even if there was "proto matter" one must assume it as some unstable form of high energy that given the chance will at best cool down to Hydrogen.

I am aware of this, but the term served well enough to express the concept I wished to convey. And in a universe or multiverse with different physical laws - which a universe with magic must be - it's entirely possible that it could decay directly to relatively highly ordered states like planets rather than going through the stages matter went through in our own universe. Or it could simply have provided an energy source for things to proceed in a manner more like unto our own universe. I've never said that physical laws and processes in Tyria can't be similar to how they are in our universe, just that they don't have to be. On the other hand, however, it could be that the strong and weak nuclear forces as we know them don't exist and the universe at that level behaves as people thought it did before the discovery of protons and neutrons - namely, that each nucleus is essentially a fundamental particle.

[pumpkin pie]

I think the mists is a void, kind of a door way that leads to "the good and evil beings" They saw that Tyria is good and decided to stay. Because of their unusual abilities they have come to be known as the "Gods" by the people of Tyria. The Evil beings saw that Tyria is good and seek to corrupt it.

[Arghore]

At first i thought i totally agreed with Operative's formulation of the mist, but after writing most of the below i find i dont agree that much after all, it does come somewhat close to that i think though.. so, what i think:

The Mist is allot like Aether or as Operative put it Dark Matter, excisting in something i feel somehow most comfortable with calling: 'Subspace', as such it can be everywhere, unrelated with any matter in normal space ... though somewhere it also strikes me as the fabric of reality and as such could be considdered as the 'space-time'-continuem ... The Mist as a name is very well chosen as its 'deffinition' is as fragmented or diffuse, vague as the substance here on earth...

One thing is clear though, located within The Mists are several places, Underworld, Fissure of Woe, The Rift (and within that, the Hall of Heros) and mostlikely Tyria itself and other yet unknown places (Perhaps the Void, or Dhuumm's Realm if you will, is located in it aswell, although the discription of the Void makes it sound like the Void is that which Destructs even the Mists) ... but extrapolating from the Odran scripture it could well be that there are multiple other places within the Mists (Realm of Torment to name yet one other); this isnt at all strange seeing that it is said that the Mists is everywhere, and thus, everything is in the Mists ... If everything is in Mists, and travel through it is possible, one soon comes to a Multiverse discription, if one were to view all these seperate places (or 'bubble' dimensions as Operative put it) ...

So the Mist is every where? or ? ... wether Tyria is in a high density 'pocket' of the mist and as such Magic is present on Tyria... for this i would like to point out again the nature of Stone & Crystal, being able to store magic (and as such to store 'the Mist'), not asfar as GmrLeon takes his theory but in a similar way; from my point of view he does have a point in the Mist being inside Tyria, this from the fact that Stone and Crystals can store Magic, and thus would attract/store The Mist ... Concentration of the Mist around planetairy bodies then becomes apparent, and this would also be somewhat of a Positive thing for the Mist, as it provides a 'platform/world' to create life on ... Then seeing The Mist is everywhere, the 'placement' of the Forgotten on Tyria, becomes somewhat more clear, it could well be a life-form from a different planet, which once the template was stored in the mist (as stated it can), then got 'placed' on Tyria (perhaps 'Paste' on Tyria might be a better term ) ... once Tyria was created, or once Tyria storred enough 'Magic/Mist' in its stone, the Snake Template was utilised and placed upon Tyria..

Perhaps the below should go in its own thread, but i place it here because i think a studie of this should go 'before' the speculation of how it came to excist ...

---------- On the Tyrian 'Solar' System --------

What i miss in this whole discussion, is the only representation of the 'Tyrian' Solar system (atleast i assume it is that) which is in Factions and the 'closer to the stars' mission ... i have been standing there a couple of times allready, viewing the planets in their weird 'orbids',



Ok, assuming this is indeed the 'Tyrian' Solar system (or atleast the NPC's view on the Tyria'n solar system), and going from a somewhat centeralistic view, the bottom sphere mostlikely represents Tyria, then Wei No Su mission has 4 different Star 'Aspects', which are obviously represented by the 4 spheres 'circling' above the Tyrian Sphere ... from observation i would then say, This is very likely a representation of the Tyrian solarsystem, and the bottom one is Tyria (so that the movement of the other stars (planets) is in relation to the point of observation, being Tyria)

More interesting (then the planets themselfs) are the bolbs of light encircling the whole system, at first i thought these could be very distant stars and they are in the 'planetarium' in a similar fashion as the stars in our sky were once part of the 'outter shell' of early earth/solarsystem representations...
But then, with the idea that Tyria is the bottom sphere, i started to follow the lil spheres that go round it, this is when i noticed 2 of them are in a 'geo'-stationary orbit, which to me immediatly rang a bell, the Tyrian 'sun', it too is always in the same position in the sky, and if one were to observe the 1e trailer, in the piece where the 'Day/Night' cycle is shown, it is very clear, that even during night, there is still a light object in the same place, as it has always been ... ak. im assuming this is one of the geo-stationary objects that are also displayed in the 'planetarium' ...

Now this planetarium lacks a true sun, and it is still unclear to me if it actually has a sun; if the Tyrian universe is unbound by earthly physics (which isnt at all strange in a fantasy world), then the whole 'a large body is always encircled by a smaller one and thus, the smaller one cant have enough mass to be emitting light on its own, because the bigger one would then have to be a black hole or a super sun', could be a non argument ... Maybe in the Tyrian System the large planetary bodies are encircled by Smaller Crystals, these Crystals can absorb so much Mist that at one Point they start to emmit Light, this light is what eluminates Tyria... similar crystals can also be found within certain Dungeons, where, like in the Tyria'n Sky they emmit light aswell ... for this i would also like to point to the Realm of Torment, it might to be just a place within the Mist, which is largely void of light, there too certain crystals can be found that emmit light, Crystals like i mentioned before store Magical Energy/The Mist, and some as a result emit light ... The Crystals around Post searing Ascalon (which mostlikely come from the mouth of abaddon as it erupted or were part of one of these encircling light emitting crystals, also seem to discharge lightning and what not ... the fact that they are crystals and come from one of these places, would mean, either the light emitting bodies are indeed light emitting crystals 'the searing was an astroid impact' or, the searing was the eruption of the Mouth of Abaddon, thus the interior of Tyria is made up of these crystals and thus the interior of Tyria would have an enormous potential to store the Mist / Magical energy)

Day and 'night' on tyria might well correspond with the geo-stationary and the encircling small bodies being in the sky at the same time, it therefor is never totally dark in the places where there are geo stationary light bodies in the sky ... and there are 2 of those, on both sides of the planet ... from memory there are 3 other small bodies encirling the bottom sphere, so if this is indeed Tyria, and the 'summation' of light bodies are indeed what makes somewhat a day/night cycle, it is to be expected that Tyria has mulitple light-dark cycles, during one day (one day being one revolvement around itself), i should realy go there and see what the cycle would be, though it would be a year before we get to check wether this cycle corresponds with the GW2 light/dark cycle (and im typing rereading/typing this rather large post atm, so some other time perhaps)

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So i mostly wanna hear comments on the Tyrian Solar system, is it like the planetarium in your thoughts?!

On the posibility of the Mist being everywhere to mostlikely attracted to stellar bodies, but then not somuch because of gravity, but since its 'attracted/stored' in the stone/crystal that makes up the stellar body, this process benefits the Mist as it gives it a platform onto which it can create life ...

The possibility of these encircling bodies being large crystals that emit light due to the large amount of The Mist / Magical energy they can store, together with the composition of this crystal that might make it emit light when it 'reacts' with magical energy
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With this the question still remains, but might be better formulised as:
"Does non living matter also originate from the Mist?"

[Mustache Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Rivenheart

Any thoughts on the Doppelganger fitting into the mists?

I was thinking this too.. man you guys seriously make me want to get into the lore aspect of the game pretty deep stuff when all I really seen was some snake people and laughed when I read that traveling guys rants (remember him way back.. he used to post a story every month on the main website)

forgot his name too but all the lore guys used to make fun of him and point out he was a noob to the lore of the land.. he would have to get defended by gaile he used to have like a good deed of the month too- it was usually a story about him getting coat tailed to some location he thought was hard or some guy he saw giving weapons out in ascalon

I used to get a good laugh when you guys would tear him a new one in the lore department and then gaile would be like.. he works very hard and knows his lore! XD

[Konig Des Todes]

Originally Posted by Arghore

Perhaps the Void, or Dhuumm's Realm if you will

Dhuum's Realm was the Underworld. The Void is an unknown location. It isn't even known to be a location! (I asked Linsey in game a while back if the Void is new lore and she gave a cryptic response which seemed to indicate "no." Though with it being cryptic...).

Originally Posted by Arghore

What i miss in this whole discussion, is the only representation of the 'Tyrian' Solar system (atleast i assume it is that) which is in Factions and the 'closer to the stars' mission ... i have been standing there a couple of times allready, viewing the planets in their weird 'orbids',

Going to have to interject, but I don't think that is the solar system, instead, a model used to represent constellations - hence why those objects have the names and history of those celestials - which have the same form as the celestials (each celestial has its own constellation, so if celestials existed in reality, they would be Virgo, Scorpio, Leo, etc.

The question is: Why do they rotate (though I'm curious if every orb is in the same spot in correlation with the other orbs - which by the rest of your statements seem to be the case - and if so would mean the rotation is just a bit of eye candy).