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Colin Johanson has just made a post on the official forums updating the community about the loot/drop investigation.

Since the community was still reporting issues with the drops they were getting, ArenaNet took another look at the issue. It appears they found the problem:

The rules by which you qualify for credit for an event or for experience when killing a mob are different rules than those used to help determine if you qualify for loot. Some of these were set up to be unintentionally restrictive, and as such you could kill a creature with a lot of health (this was most noticeable on champions) and not qualify for loot, despite qualifying for all other credit.

Once fixed, all champion mobs will correctly always drop 1 blue or better loot item, and all veterans will have a chance of dropping loot better than regular mobs as outlined in the November release. Please note, it is still possible to kill a creature and not do enough damage to qualify for loot (which is the only way you won’t get loot for a champion), it is also still possible for veterans to not drop loot at all, since they simply have better odds of dropping loot than normal creatures but no guaranteed drops.

He goes on to say that they will repair the issue with the February patch drops and not only that, but they plan to make specific areas more rewarding for the players. We'll see more information when the February patch notes are published.
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#1 Lordkrall

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

Good to see that they are actually telling us this instead of simply stealth patching it with the update.

#2 Azure Skye

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

I just wondering what they are putting in to make it rewarding.

#3 malevolence

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:42 PM

Well, it is not the first time they are saying this, but please, they really need to fix the issue, until I don't see it, I wont believe it.

#4 Asha2012

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:45 PM

I just think it is ridiculous to solo a lvl 80 veteran PLUS like four "grunts" and get crap.  I'm sure I'm not alone in soloing mobs for a while before finally being defeated and getting very little for the effort.  I would at least like the drops to equal the cost of repairing my armor.  Just sayin' :P[size=4] [/size]

#5 sambombe

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:46 PM

Loot reward based in damage imput??? WTF Anet, what an epic fail. What about the support professions/build, that keep spamming boons for the party and does not sufficient damage??

#6 tfckmk988

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

i've been playing for about a month so likely this has been broken the whole time  i can't wait for the end of month patch now

#7 Asha2012

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

[quote name='sambombe' timestamp='1361223999' post='2166205']
Loot reward based in damage imput??? WTF Anet, what an epic fail. What about the support professions/build, that keep spamming boons for the party and does not sufficient damage??
[/quote]

Exactly, I am a mesmer and I often cast AoE boons and AoE conditions to help melee (Time Warp anyone?).

#8 Lordkrall

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:53 PM

[quote name='Asha2012' timestamp='1361224278' post='2166211']
Exactly, I am a mesmer and I often cast AoE boons and AoE conditions to help melee (Time Warp anyone?).
[/quote]

Playing Mesmer as well and I don't really have much trouble with getting credit from kills.
Keep in mind that Chaos Storm does do damage aswell and the conditions does count as damage.

#9 Kymeric

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:58 PM

I'd like to point out to Colin that blue items in this game are pretty much vendor trash.  Greens sell so cheaply, they are the baseline gear.

Shouldn't significant contribution to a Champion kill at least warrant a green?

#10 SnowmanRelic

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:03 PM

[quote name='Kymeric' timestamp='1361224683' post='2166215']
I'd like to point out to Colin that blue items in this game are pretty much vendor trash.  Greens sell so cheaply, they are the baseline gear.

Shouldn't significant contribution to a Champion kill at least warrant a green?
[/quote]

While I can see that you must also understand just how easy it is to get a champ to kill, if the minimum is a green and you stay in queensdale for awhile a rare or better wouldnt be hard to come by in return for little work.

#11 Kovares

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:08 PM

[quote name='Asha2012' timestamp='1361224278' post='2166211']
Exactly, I am a mesmer and I often cast AoE boons and AoE conditions to help melee (Time Warp anyone?).
[/quote]

It's not like you had to kill the mob all by yourself though. As I read it, you'll have to cross a certain damage threshold and then you'll get the same loot chance as everyone else. As the system is rather lenient with group event rewards, I'd expect it to do the same for loot drops now.
After all, even if you really focus on handing out boons or whatever, you will have to auto attack alot in the meantime, so you'll probably get rewarded anyway. I do hope the rewards are scaled up for veterans in fractals etc. as well though...

#12 Azjenco

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:15 PM

[quote name='SnowmanRelic' timestamp='1361225030' post='2166220']
While I can see that you must also understand just how easy it is to get a champ to kill, if the minimum is a green and you stay in queensdale for awhile a rare or better wouldnt be hard to come by in return for little work.
[/quote]
I do agree with Kymeric that blue drops do seem a bit lowly. However, you're right SnowmaRelic, if they up the drop, people will just camp champions like crazy. Remember, it starts at blue, so the chance of getting green is good, and yellow is also quite likely.

First guild missions, and the TP preview, and now this. This will be the best patch so far.

#13 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:15 PM

Problem isn`t in getting the credit for the kill (thus loot itself) but it`s much more irritating then that, LOOT is pathetic to say the least !!!

The thing Anet should do is make drop rates MUCH bigger (that 0.005% they keep adding is just joke) i mean 1 hour per Lodestone in full MF gear ? Even rare items lately salvaged with Black Lion Salvage Kit don`t yield Ecto anymore (every 3rd does) like 1 max 2 !
I mean there is so much wrong with loot in this game that is hard to list all problems, saying that loot is bad is just such a HUGE understatement !!!!

#14 HawkofStorms

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:19 PM

My biggest concern is some players might not get enough damage to qualify for loot (like say, a condition necro who can't get any damage in on a Champion because 30 other people are attacking it and every condition is already maxed).  I'd like some clarification on how they address condition damage as contributing to a fight.

#15 Omedon

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:25 PM

[quote name='HawkofStorms' timestamp='1361225962' post='2166230']
My biggest concern is some players might not get enough damage to qualify for loot (like say, a condition necro who can't get any damage in on a Champion because 30 other people are attacking it and every condition is already maxed).  I'd like some clarification on how they address condition damage as contributing to a fight.
[/quote]

I can't think of very many 1-5 powers in the game that apply conditions and don't inflict direct damage.  I have a feeling the "damage for credit" threshold takes this into account.
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#16 Kovares

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:25 PM

[quote name='HawkofStorms' timestamp='1361225962' post='2166230']
My biggest concern is some players might not get enough damage to qualify for loot (like say, a condition necro who can't get any damage in on a Champion because 30 other people are attacking it and every condition is already maxed).  I'd like some clarification on how they address condition damage as contributing to a fight.
[/quote]

Actually, they should really address condition damage as a whole. After all, the lack of contribution for rewards is only a symptom of the lack of damage.

#17 Laren

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:25 PM

It's always a weird feeling when months after it was reported by players, the devs come along stating they just have found out that there is a problem how mob tagging awards loot. But awesome that it finally gets fixed.

#18 Kovares

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:26 PM

[quote name='Omedon' timestamp='1361226300' post='2166236']
I can't think of very many 1-5 powers in the game that apply conditions and don't inflict direct damage.  I have a feeling the "damage for credit" threshold takes this into account.
[/quote]

They do apply laughable damage in full condition gear though, and afaik, the damage for credit threshold only looks for raw damage done, no matter the source or how many stacks a target might have still on it when it dies.

#19 Eon Lilu

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:30 PM

[quote name='sambombe' timestamp='1361223999' post='2166205']
Loot reward based in damage imput??? WTF Anet, what an epic fail. What about the support professions/build, that keep spamming boons for the party and does not sufficient damage??
[/quote]

Exactly, just silly and lazy they made it that way, only damage counts meaning warrior = best chance of the best loot and every other profession has a lower chance because of less damage...

Completely stupid system.

Also, im sure others will disagree and I do admit I have zero proof and is completely speculation on my part, I think these "accidental restrictions" stories are complete and utter bullshit. Personally and again its just my opinion, I believe they put the "accidental loot restrictions" into the game intentionally but after seeing how noticable it was, with the rage coming from the community, Anet did what they seem to do best, back peddle and cover it up while making up some story to save face...

Im guessing they did not expect the restrictions to be as obvious as they were, also all the players who kept saying "your just getting bad rng" well that kind of shows that was utter rubbish in most cases.

Just a thought but I find it extremely hard to believe with Anets track history of diminishing returns, past restrictions and the ability they have of saying one thing but later going back on it....I find it extremely hard to believe they just "accidentily caused restrictions" that just accidentily effected the way loot / rewards were working and that just happend to be less than it was before....

Anet you are becoming masters at the new sport of back peddling bad design decisions while trying to make yourselves smell of roses.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but as said, I find it extremely hard to believe considering recent events from devolepment to launch to 6 months later...to say this was an accident or mistake made to the game build....sorry I do not buy it.
[quote name='Alex Dimitri' timestamp='1361225733' post='2166229']
Even rare items lately salvaged with Black Lion Salvage Kit don`t yield Ecto anymore (every 3rd does) like 1 max 2 !
I mean there is so much wrong with loot in this game that is hard to list all problems, saying that loot is bad is just such a HUGE understatement !!!!
[/quote]

Thats another thing, some say it's all in people's heads but honestly, there seems to be a change in ecto rates when salvaging, its alot less of a chance then it used to be, how did "accidental restrictions" cause that? Have they investigated that by any chance?

Whole story just seems like a PR department trying to spin a bad business / design choice.

[url="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=NvxhW-smVj7rvM&tbnid=vWtqE_o7PYIRwM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Faww%2Fcomments%2Fsqfu3%2Fso_we_just_hired_a_new_it_guy%2F&ei=qq0iUdatO4qx0AX5zIDoCQ&bvm=bv.42553238,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNHz0qCWIEJMhwYTqVgy-2FjiIW45A&ust=1361313502535982"][img]http://www.amandamock.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/WaitIllfix128440704935781250.jpg[/img][/url]

#20 Reason on Cooldown

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:02 PM

[quote name='sambombe' timestamp='1361223999' post='2166205']
Loot reward based in damage imput??? WTF Anet, what an epic fail. What about the support professions/build, that keep spamming boons for the party and does not sufficient damage??
[/quote]

Agreed.  They highlight how the game is built around damage, support, and control roles.  Yet in the end it often comes down to damage.  It would be nice if I cast an AOE might buff, I get some fraction of the credit for damage people do while under the buff.  Or heals give me some fractional credit for damage done with that extra health.  Ok, we're talking a quickly complicating equation here, but it could be simplified.  For example:

For might cast on someone else, damage credit = Player's average DPS * duration of might * modifier.
For heal or regeneration, damage credit = Player's average DPS * average damage taken * % of total health healed * modifier

Something like that.  And obviously some things would be harder to formulate.  How much credit to give immobilize or PBAoE which has no CONSISTENT straightforward affect on group damage output?

[quote name='Eon Lilu' timestamp='1361226622' post='2166246']
Just a thought but I find it extremely hard to believe with Anets track history of diminishing returns, past restrictions and the ability they have of saying one thing but later going back on it....I find it extremely hard to believe they just "accidentilty caused restrictions" that just accidentily effected the way loot / rewards were working and that just happend to be less than it was before....
[/quote]

While I am not saying this is not possible.  This is a complex game.  It is not always obvious how changes in one part of the code might affect other parts of the code.  And some of these issue don't get discovered until a larger number of people are hitting that code.  It likely isn't as simple as some spreadsheet with a value plugged in a clearly labelled as "loot restriction coefficient."  Sometimes you have to look in 20 different places to see how one piece of code functions.  So "Oops" is just as likely as "BS."