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Over in the land of the official forums, Jonathan Sharp has pointed out that the planned skill splits between PvP and PvE will also stretch into World Vs World. He states they plan to start the splits in the upcoming patch, which more than likely is the April 30th update announced yesterday (though the date specifically has not been confirmed).

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.
But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.


For those of you unfamiliar with this, a skill split will allow a single skill to behave differently while in different game formats. While we don't have much experience with this practice in Guild Wars 2, the original Guild Wars took advantage of this system quite often. Some skills would only change in damage or duration, while others were reworked entirely.

Despite being an entirely different format, World Vs World skill balance has largely remained in sync with PvE since the game launched last August. Are these changes unnecessary, or are your prayers finally being answered?

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#1 FoxBat

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:44 PM

Confusion needs to be adjusted between modes more than any individual skills really.
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#2 Azure Skye

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:45 PM

i guess they aren't going to retroactively change skills only going forward. =P
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#3 Airwolf

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:56 PM

Now i really hope that they also add a way to split trait sets as well. As some traits will become more/less useful if skills change.
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#4 Aaron Demonsniper

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:09 AM

I kind of wish they wouldn't split skills between WvW and PvE. WvW is meant to be combining the fun of PvE with some elements of PvP. Moving into skill splits make the two that much farther apart. I'm well aware of imbalances between professions in some builds, but I'd say that makes the game more interesting. We don't need to be perfectly balanced to be able to win - the professions are close enough that skill will determine the winner.
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#5 FoxBat

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:27 AM

[quote name='Airwolf' timestamp='1365810969' post='2191031']
Now i really hope that they also add a way to split trait sets as well. As some traits will become more/less useful if skills change.
[/quote]

Traits are already split in PvE/P, I bet the dev is including that as well.
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#6 Bonana

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 01:49 AM

will it allow is to have separate builds between WvW and PvE? Sort of like PvP...
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#7 Kurosov

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:48 AM

[quote name='Airwolf' timestamp='1365810969' post='2191031']
Now i really hope that they also add a way to split trait sets as well. As some traits will become more/less useful if skills change.
[/quote]

The better option would be to add pve and pvp only traits i think.

Keep the balance between some, and add new traits that are format specific. Having multiple different on skills is one thing, but traits as well would get messy.

Then follow it up with a different trait set/skill bar for wvw much like the spvp one works so you can keep a pve builds, a wvw builds and an spvp build.
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#8 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:37 AM

Why are we then still suffering PvE in WvW? And by PvE, I mean progression and repair costs?
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#9 Azure Skye

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:45 AM

This makes into 3 category PvP, PvE and WvW, right?
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#10 Lordkrall

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:06 AM

[quote name='Ritualist' timestamp='1365831466' post='2191090']
Why are we then still suffering PvE in WvW? And by PvE, I mean progression and repair costs?
[/quote]

Because we earn PvE stuff while doing it?
Remove all gear, karma, experience and money gain in WvW and we can remove the repair costs :)
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#11 Eon Lilu

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:13 AM

Entangle WvW nerf incoming.... :D

Well im glad they finally are looking at spvp, pve and wvw all seperately now, is about time.
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#12 davadude

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:23 AM

[quote name='Eon Lilu' timestamp='1365837195' post='2191111']
Entangle WvW nerf incoming.... :D

Well im glad they finally are looking at spvp, pve and wvw all seperately now, is about time.
[/quote]

I feel like they (and Izzy, especially), learned a lot from Guild Wars 1 in terms of skill balancing. They finally understand that PVE, PVP, and now WVW, are entirely different experiences with different requirements and desires from each community. Hoorah! :D
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Davadude - Guru Village Idiot

#13 Waar Kijk Je Naar

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:34 AM

[quote name='Neo Nugget' timestamp='1365809502' post='2191026']Are these changes unnecessary, or are your prayers finally being answered?
[/quote]
That depends on what they will change.

Do they do this to buff certain skills in PvE and not make them OP in PvP, or to nerf skills in PvP and not make them useless in PvE?
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#14 Eon Lilu

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:57 AM

[quote name='davadude' timestamp='1365841432' post='2191132']
I feel like they (and Izzy, especially), learned a lot from Guild Wars 1 in terms of skill balancing. They finally understand that PVE, PVP, and now WVW, are entirely different experiences with different requirements and desires from each community. Hoorah! :D
[/quote]

Well forever they defended their decision to not separate them saying it was to make the game easier to balance and they found in GW1 balancing was hard to do since so many skills changed depending on pvp / pve etc.

Just glad Anet have seen the error in their original decision. Only took 7/8 months. :P
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#15 NerfHerder

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:06 AM

I want to stay optimistic, but I cant forget that this is the same team that brought us [url="http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter%27s_Boon_(PvP)"]Smiter's Boon[/url]. And also nerfed the paragon and never looked back. I understand many skills in GW1 were nerfed due to the dual class system and we dont have that in GW2. But, many of those skills stayed useless. As long as they dont keep the same nerf and forget attitude, I'm all for splitting skills.

I wouldnt expect a three way split for PvP, PvE, and WvW. More along the lines of nerf/buff for one but stays the same on the other two.
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#16 Khaal

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:00 PM

[quote name='Airwolf' timestamp='1365810969' post='2191031']
Now i really hope that they also add a way to split trait sets as well. As some traits will become more/less useful if skills change.
[/quote]
[quote name='Kurosov' timestamp='1365821299' post='2191064']
The better option would be to add pve and pvp only traits i think.

Keep the balance between some, and add new traits that are format specific. Having multiple different on skills is one thing, but traits as well would get messy.

Then follow it up with a different trait set/skill bar for wvw much like the spvp one works so you can keep a pve builds, a wvw builds and an spvp build.
[/quote]
[quote name='Azure Skye' timestamp='1365831906' post='2191093']
This makes into 3 category PvP, PvE and WvW, right?
[/quote]


Pardon my reductio ad absurdum, but where does it end. At what point do we draw lines. Should we split skills and traits for dungeons, personal story and open world PvE? Should we split between different SPvP maps? Do we change weapon skills so that a (insert weapon type here) operates one way in PvP and another in PvE? Let's face it, some weapons get way more use in one format over another. Hell, maybe there should just be three different games here, right?

(Note to those responding to this thread: I have already stated that this is reductio ad absurdum and therefore implied that it is rhetorical, so please be aware of that in your response.)
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#17 Craywulf

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:21 PM

[quote name='Eon Lilu' timestamp='1365843460' post='2191137']


Well forever they defended their decision to not separate them saying it was to make the game easier to balance and they found in GW1 balancing was hard to do since so many skills changed depending on pvp / pve etc.

Just glad Anet have seen the error in their original decision. Only took 7/8 months. :P
[/quote]They never said or implied that! They have always stated there would be a split, but preferred to minimize it as much as they could.
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#18 Eon Lilu

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:55 AM

[quote name='Craywulf' timestamp='1365873689' post='2191240']
They never said or implied that! They have always stated there would be a split, but preferred to minimize it as much as they could.
[/quote]

Sorry but no, they originally from development to beta to a little after launch, always made the decision to not split skills no matter what, they stuck with this and argued when players said it was a bad idea, their reason given was because when they did split skills in GW1 it made it almost impossible and very time consuming to balance properly, especially with secondary professions and so many skills in the game, which was also not put into gw2 for the same reason along with hardly any skills in gw2 compared to hundreds in gw1, and they felt they spent too much time balancing in gw1 and they didn't want to waste all that time in GW2.

They said that 100%. Not implied, they actually said it. It's one of the main reasons why we don't have hundreds of skills per profession and skill combinations in GW2 like we did in gw1, why we don't have secondary professions, they feel it would make balancing take up too much of their time and be a total nightmare with balance.

Now a little later after launch they, as a one off, changed one guardian skill and split it from spvp / pve, in spvp save yourselves [url="http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Save_Yourselves!%22"]http://wiki.guildwar...ve_Yourselves!"[/url][size=4] was 5 seconds now instead of 10 seconds like it is in pve and WvW, this was the only spit they did at that time, it was a one off but it did open up the discussion of asking the question to Arena Net, if you are splitting this one skill does that mean you are re considering the whole never splitting skills thing?[/size]

[color=#282828][font=tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(229, 236, 238)]“Save Yourselves!”: This skill has now been split between PvP and PvE. In PvE, players will notice no difference. In PvP, this skill’s boon duration has been changed to 5 seconds.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

Patch notes 23/10/12

There answer was no, we will still try to avoid splitting skills, this was just an exception that was needed. Suggesting maybe more "exceptions in the future".

Arena Net were very stubborn over this for a long long time since before launch all the way up until now, finally they have decided to take another look at things since environments change the way skills effect things depending on the environmemt, such as spvp, wvw ad pve...they all react differently to those different environments and skills.
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#19 MazingerZ

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:26 AM

May as well flatten gear to sPvP levels as well in WvW.
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It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#20 Craywulf

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:59 AM

[quote name='Eon Lilu' timestamp='1365904510' post='2191352']Arena Net were very stubborn over this for a long long time since before launch all the way up until now, finally they have decided to take another look at things since environments change the way skills effect things depending on the environmemt, such as spvp, wvw ad pve...they all react differently to those different environments.
[/quote] I don't think they were stubborn at all. I think they wanted to keep things similar for the sake of selling the game on it's accessibility and they didn't want the perception that they were making two different games and trying to squish them into one. If they said they never would split, I obviously didn't believe them and I certainly wasn't going hold them to it because the reality of it, splitting the skills is inevitable.
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