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Nice, just in time for a lunch hour read, thanks for re-posting

and the thread was apparently closed due to a lot of flaming and such after much moderation.

gg.

matsif, on 13 December 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

True story, many bugs (I'm still not playing my Mesmer due to the GS bugs that arose after the last major update), and many flamers on the GW2 forums. TBH I think that the flamers cut a lot deeper on the GW2 forums than they do here on the Guru forums. I thought it would be the reverse case this long after launch.

This is an extremely positive thing.
I have good feelings for the Jan/Feb update, as a player looking for quality content rather than longevitous grind.

I think a lot of the "flaming" there is justified and ANet is a bunch of wusses for constantly surpressing negative feedback.  The shut down threads, move posts, move threads, etc rather than allow discussion.

If they didn't constantly shut down anything remotely negative, perhaps posters there would disucss things in a more civil manner.  Maybe not but it does get old having your posts and threads "censored" in the name of making GW2 look like some kind of gaming utopia on their forums.

It also seems like the official general forum is kind of slow moving - either because there's little point in posting there unless you're a fanboi or because the moderators remove so much stuff.  The general forum here at guru has far better discussions and moves thru topics faster.  You'll see the same threads on page one at the GW2 official general forum all thru the day which is kind of unheard of for a major MMORPG with this many players.

Zhahz, on 13 December 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Honestly, maybe I'll start hanging out there then, since I've all but given up on guru due to so much negativity over a game that I am absolutely loving, as are my entire guild.

The internet at large are not worthy of GW2's idealistic and highly reasonable and smart approach to development.  The biggest mistake made is that GW2 expected its vocal "fan base" to be civil on the internet.  The more draconian they get on their forums, the closer I'll get to having a new news and discussion home.  

This isn't a "head in the sand" mentality talking, I acknowledge that GW2 has its flaws, but the negativity that gets spewed at this well intended game for sane, reasonable, mature players that are given all the tools to make their own fun but instead expect it all to be mind numbing and unidirectional like other games is appalling.

The sooner the game's community slims down to those appreciative and worthy of what we have in GW2, the better.

It's not for everyone.  Heck, it's not for most of the people that will read this.

Omedon, on 13 December 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

I wish you were making an ironic post.

I like Gw2 too - but it could have been so much better - and it is by no means without flaws. There are MANY.

Soki, on 13 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

Yep, there sure are, but those of us of the reasonable and mature persuasion realize we can work around them until they are fixed.

On topic, I'm glad to see them being so communicative about what they're doing in the day-to-day of dealing with the INEVITABLE issues that come up with a game this huge.  Big points for ArenaNet!

Unlike many, I appreciate what communication I get, as I realize I'm not entitled to it.  ArenaNet isn't entitled to my business either, but they earn it every time I log in and have fun.

I didn't post in the thread, but I read it before it got moderated and I can tell you that there was some very civil criticism that by no means warranted removal.

TBH it looks like censoring to me. Yea sure there was a few posts that didn't stay within an acceptable line, and those should be removed, but there were posts that were removed that was simply asking for statements on certain issues that ArenaNet has been silent about.

It's too late for them.

Senatic, on 13 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

That's the official forums for you. You get stuff removed and even banned if you don't portray the game in shining halo light.

It is censoring.  Social media is recognized as being fairly powerful.  Where a forum used to be a place to foster a community, it's now a place where the rabble can organize.  Message control has been a cornerstone of marketing and public relations since their inception.  The reason Guild Wars never had one was because it didn't need one.  Once you moved beyond the box price, that was it.  Since GW2 is going to be a revenue stream for NCsoft, an official forums was necessary lest the rabble organize somewhere else where they have less control over the message.

If you look over in Tyrian Assembly, Guru is just the same 30 asshats (myself included) fobbing on about stuff.  Can you imagine the traffic if there were no official forums?

Senatic, on 13 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

...is against their forum rules in the "directed at ArenaNet" capacity.

Omedon, on 13 December 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

A good way for them to not get fixed is to not discuss them.

Omedon, on 13 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

And how does that change anything?

Yes, it is ArenaNet's forum. Their house, their rules. They can manage it in whatever way they see fit and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. All of this is absolutely true, this does however not mean that what they are doing or how they conduct their business is beyond moral reproach. They are not gods, just because it's in their rules does not mean it's right.

Quite frankly, censorship of the kind that is going on on that forum is absolutely despicable and when I see that stuff I am ashamed to support them with my money.

Yeah, the guy who went on to personally attack the live team saying that their statements was BS because most of the bug fixes was actually just text updates to reflect the functionality of the skills, I understand them removing posts like this. It was not helpful, it did not contribute and it was not civil. But then they removed the post of the guy who very politely asked if there was any chance we could get some insight into the loot drops issues that are currently going on (ie worse drops was introduced instead of better). And he was completely civil, he was polite, he wasn't demanding an answer. It was a simple request for ArenaNet to answer a concern part of the community has been experiencing. And what do they do? They remove his post, probably gave him an infraction for posting it and continue to ignore the issue completely.

And I ask you, why? Because they said in the rules that asking for a statement is not acceptable? Yeah, that sounds awesome. A company that is completely beyond criticism, may never be questioned or called out and is beyond all responsibility towards its paying customers. That really sounds acceptable to you? Does that really sound like something anyone with the slightest sense of right and wrong would do?

If your answer is yes I will be very concerned.

Omedon, on 13 December 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

I totally agree with you but we live in the ungreatful, impolite, irrespectful, entitlement generation add to that the world of whiner's club (WoW for short ) and then people wonder why threads and posts get moved and closed.

Senatic, on 14 December 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

More dispicable than the insults trown at them after 5 years working on a game with a genuine intent on pleasing fan, please give me a break. If this kind of total lack of respect and insults were directed at me I would have the same kind of censorship. A kind word and a constructive comment about a bug goes a long way towards keeping a thread open. I report bugs every day online without insults it's that easy.

Soki, on 13 December 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

You can discuss them all you want by simply adding a constructive and kind word here and there instead of pouring this kind of example; ( You fuc''n as...s wipe .... ........)

Omedon, on 13 December 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

There's a saying floating around that goes along the lines of "Reasonable people change to suit the world. It's the unreasonable people who change the world."

While I can certainly agree that some people could stand to be more civil, the game definitely does have its flaws, and fixing them would make the game better for everyone. And when you make a set of official forums, those become the official location for people to point out what those flaws are or to seek information on progress on addressing those flaws.

draxynnic, on 14 December 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

Good thing we're only talking about a video game, then.

Omedon, on 14 December 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

The quote is still relevant. Semantics don't change that.

Hybarf Tics, on 14 December 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

I've seen a lot of constructive discussion threads get locked by ANet, as a form of damage control.

Soki, on 14 December 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Actually, the hyperbolic nature of the quote reinforces my angle.

The biggest mistake game developers have made is making their players' public and detatched Internet voices feel important.  Couple this with the consumer advocate stance that amplifies in these financial times, and everyone thinks they are and must be the one who will change the minds behind the game:

News flash: you aren't.

Vote with your wallet, report bugs and file tickets in game, but no matter what they tell you, no, uprisings and vitriolic ridiculousness that happens on game forums usually won't and arguably never should hold any true weight.  It's not a mob rule, the lunatics aren't running the asylum, and the only thing you've bought is the opportunity to experience the vision of the studio and the companies tied to it.  Don't like that?  Don't buy it, but I do not fault ArenaNet in the slightest for clamping down hard on forum blowhards.  

Bringing this conveniently back on topic, they are outright telling you that there is a team responding to tickets and issues in game.  The one-way communication you have there and beyond through bug reports is all that is needed, participation in a public discussion, in their space, is a privilege, not a right, and while we all also have the right to find that unacceptable and move on/stop paying, that doesn't change the fact that the "unreasonable" are disempowered to be rabble rousers in ArenaNet's official space.

And thank goodness for that.

I read alot of the mez bug on forum. I don't do gs as of late but I pl
ayed gs enough to know how to use it.. was in curse shores. Did an event counting 6 of us. Right away 3 died in which we could not rez. At the end it was me and a guardian standing without dying. I was on a down. State once but quickly got myself up. Gs may have problems like they say berzerk isn't working and they are trying to fix. But I don't think gs is a must have. Finding leap and phase retreat great skills and utilizing the combo fields for chaos armor which can be combo to other players does amazing things.  Mez still run strong. If pol. I do intend on playing around with gs just to se the bug. Stool having no problem with my mez. Strong character!