989 replies to this topic

[Neon]

Lux et Veritas said:

1 more question , that GTX 590 is a tiny bit insane . Really makes me want to get a desktop instead xD

I am currently looking at this .. http://www.notebookc...5M.42883.0.html and http://www.notebookc...ds.13849.0.html

I'll add on as I move along the charts .

What's with metro 2033 ? So many high end mobile graphics card can't run it properly lol .

I'd love to be able to play L4D on high at 122 FPS .

Why does the GTX 485m get a lower FPS on crysis than on crysis 2 ?

edit : how come when I go to websites that builds custom laptops , whenever I click on one that says gtx485m , it shows me 460m on the standard and if i want a 485m , i have to pay 500 more ?

edit 2 : I see alienware has a new 18inch laptop .. interesting ..

2033 has high requirements that is all.

L4D should be fine, but it depends on resolution & settings ofc

You get lower FPS on Crysis than on Crysis 2 because unlike the original Crysis 2 is a dirty dirty console port with significantly worse graphics.

Don't touch alienware. Again, where is the sticky about this.

[tijo]

If you want a high end GPU, you have to pay for it whether be it for desktop or laptop. The only thing is that laptop GPUs can't be as powerful as desktop GPUs due to size and heat issues. It's the same with CPUs, check the price of the xm mobile CPUs, it costs around $1000 to upgrade to one of those.

As for metro 2033, it's more like so many GPUs can't run it maxed out, laptop and desktop. You'll pay more for an AW because of the Alienware name but at the end of the day it's up to you to decide if paying more for the brand and look is acceptable or not. If you simply want the best performance you can get, clevo is the way to go right now.

[Lux et Veritas]

Well yeah , I know . I wasn't saying I was gonna get an AW > > I was simply talking to myself .. Lol .

But if it's one of the upgradable options , they should just state so instead of putting their best specs out on the front page @ 1.6k when it isn't . Damn marketing tricks ..

And yeah , I noticed that the alienware's current best GPU is the GTX 460M Sli which on paper looks better than the GTX485M but in reality , it isn't (lower FPS on ultra) .

See I learnt some stuffs (:

[Eon Lilu]

You say in your post that the i3 does not have hyper threading. i3 does have hyper threading it just does not have Turbo Boost.

[tijo]

Oh, yeah. Sorry, my bad i'll change it right away.

Fixed, i3s should still be avoided (if possible) if you consider gaming on a laptop though.

Edited by tijo, 14 May 2011 - 11:56 PM.

[Eon Lilu]

tijo said:

Oh, yeah. Sorry, my bad i'll change it right away.

Fixed, i3s should still be avoided (if possible) if you consider gaming on a laptop though.

Well I can only go by my experience with a laptop, i3-350M ( 2.3Ghz, 3MB L3 Cache ), 6114 GB DDR3 Memory, ATI Radeon HD5470 ( Total memory 3248 MB, DX 11, Shader Model 5 ).

With that spec was able to run 3 clients of eve online at once with full graphics ( very demanding game ) with loads of stuff running in background, GW1 on max with no problems, Lord of the rings online with max settings no problems, World Of Tanks with max no probs and many many other games with bloom, post processing effects, anti aliasing etc etc. No over heating problems either but I use cooling pad as I like to look after my lappy.

Now I am not saying that you could run GW2 with full max settings with this spec but turn off bloom, post processing effects and anti aliasing, set graphics to medium - high and I am pretty confident it will run with good performance and still look amazing.

I am happy with best case scenerio being that I can play with medium settings and all the extra crap thats not needed turned off like bloom, post processing effects and anti aliasing etc etc, and have good performance. That I would be happy with.

So that spec with an i3 is more than enough in my opinion and from my experience using both desktops, laptops, old gen next gen hardware and many games. I do have a desktop with more powerfull spec more in line with your guidelines but just wanted to get across that with a budget laptop/desktop you can run a hell of alot than most people say you can....some games with max settings, others with medium.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 15 May 2011 - 12:29 AM.

[Lux et Veritas]

Just wondering , do you guys plug an external moniter to your laptop and use it with another keyboard ?

[Eon Lilu]

Lux et Veritas said:

Just wondering , do you guys plug an external moniter to your laptop and use it with another keyboard ?

I will be, got a huge moniter il be hooking up plus a HD TV that I can hook up to, no need for the extra keyboard though as the way my desk/lounge is setup using the lappy keyboard still works without the screen being annoyingly in the way.

[Lux et Veritas]

Oh okay . Because when I play games like gunz , I spam like .. 30 keys in 1 second so my laptop keyboards goes all squeaky just like how my current one is a little squeaky now so I'm most likely going to use an external keyboard just in case .

So you've got yourself a huge monitor and a HD tv ? Nice . I think I'll just get a 22-ish inch screen . Assuming I run the same resolution 1920 * 1200 on both screens , will I get the same FPS on the bigger monitor ?  

Oh yeah , I think I asked this question previously but it wasn't answered . What are the advantages of higher resolution screens ? Assuming you can run a game on max on both 1600 * 900 and 1920 * 1200 , why would you choose the latter ?

Would you choose the latter even if your FPS is only just around 40 ish FPS mark ?

[tijo]

Eon, at what resolution are you running those? Personally, i wouldn't trust a 5470m for GW2 at anything above 768p and even then you'll have to turn off bloom/AA/post processing and lower the settings a bit, just like you said, to obtain a playable framerate. I never said that something like an i3/5470 wouldn't run GW2 just that you shouldn't expect to run it on high settings. As for eve online, if my 9650m GT can run it at 1440x900 almost maxed, i wouldn't call it very intensive. The same goes for GW1, the intel IGPs can run it very decently now so again, not demanding by today's standards.


From the rumors, they are still rumors so we can't be sure, GW2 is going to be rather CPU intensive hence why i would recommend an i5 or i7. Then again, the difference between the fastest i3 and slowest i5 isn't that big... I wouldn't go for the lower end i3s though.

I prefer high resolutions because you see more things on the screen but that is a matter of preferences. I find anything 1440x900 to be a bit low. There's a world of difference between the GPU power required for 1600x900 vs 1920x1200. If you get 30 fps at 1600x900, you can be sure it won't be playable at the same settings. Resolution and AA are two of the things that demand a lot more performance if you crank them up.

In the end, it all depends on your standards. If you look at the original post, i made recommendations for what i suppose (won't know for sure until specs are out and i can run the demo or full game) is needed for high settings. I didn't make recommendations for medium or low but GPUs like the 5470m will run the game, it's a given. Med-low setting and low resolutions are also implied for those.

[Lux et Veritas]

Quote

Would you choose the latter even if your FPS is only just around 40 ish FPS mark ?

what i meant was if you could run 30 FPS on 1920 * 1200 , would you still run it at 1920 or drop to say 1600*900 for a higher FPS instead ?

edit : on another note , Imma try redownload portal again . I'll see if I can even run it on this computer . If I like it , I'll definitely get portal 2 .

Edited by Lux et Veritas, 15 May 2011 - 03:50 AM.

[Eon Lilu]

tijo said:

Eon, at what resolution are you running those? Personally, i wouldn't trust a 5470m for GW2 at anything above 768p and even then you'll have to turn off bloom/AA/post processing and lower the settings a bit, just like you said, to obtain a playable framerate. I never said that something like an i3/5470 wouldn't run GW2 just that you shouldn't expect to run it on high settings. As for eve online, if my 9650m GT can run it at 1440x900 almost maxed, i wouldn't call it very intensive. The same goes for GW1, the intel IGPs can run it very decently now so again, not demanding by today's standards.


From the rumors, they are still rumors so we can't be sure, GW2 is going to be rather CPU intensive hence why i would recommend an i5 or i7. Then again, the difference between the fastest i3 and slowest i5 isn't that big... I wouldn't go for the lower end i3s though.

I prefer high resolutions because you see more things on the screen but that is a matter of preferences. I find anything 1440x900 to be a bit low. There's a world of difference between the GPU power required for 1600x900 vs 1920x1200. If you get 30 fps at 1600x900, you can be sure it won't be playable at the same settings. Resolution and AA are two of the things that demand a lot more performance if you crank them up.

In the end, it all depends on your standards. If you look at the original post, i made recommendations for what i suppose (won't know for sure until specs are out and i can run the demo or full game) is needed for high settings. I didn't make recommendations for medium or low but GPUs like the 5470m will run the game, it's a given. Med-low setting and low resolutions are also implied for those.

Not sure how much you played eve online but in 0.0 fleet battles the game is massively a hog on your machine, like I have not seen a game more demanding on any computer when your in a large scale 0.0 fleet battle with hundreds if not thousands of capital and support ships all on the same grid....its kinda ridiculous. Eve Online is very intensive but I suppose with all games it depends on what your actually doing in the game, even then running 3 or more eve clients on max settings on one computer at the same time even just doing simple things in game is still a pretty good benchmark to hit.

As for everything else you said I agree. My goal is not to run GW2 with every setting on high as I find with most games it is HUGELY over rated, turning off things like bloom, AA, post processing effects and other settings in most games changes very little in the actual game experience but dramatically increases performance by alot. As for resolution and frame rate problems with any game I have played so far running at 1360x768 ( sometimes on a much bigger moniter than that size ) having no problems with frame rate, performance with high settings but in fear of trying to push my equipment to hard or over clocking etc I choose to run most things on medium anyway.

I see hardly any difference in quality on most games between high settings and medium settings, nothing that really effects my enjoyment of the game anyway.

I will be using your guide to possibly upgrade and maybe even get a new desktop closer to GW2's launch though. :D

[tijo]

Ok, yeah 0.0 battles can get quite demanding, i didn't have those in mind :p, i'll give you that. But if you are playing 0.0 battles, you are also probably playing with some effects down to avoid potential lagg due to those effects when ships blow up. What effects you find overrated is entirely up to you. I actually notice a difference for AA/post processing, the same with the filtering mode used and depending on the game it does bother me. If it doesn't bother you, then a weaker GPU does the job nicely.

@ Lux: I find 30fps to be playable so i would settle for 30fps at 1080p, 60 feels smoother but for me the difference isn't enough to warrant lowering the resolution or settings (depends on which settings, i can live with 2x AA instead of 4x). Again, this is subjective so you should experiment that for yourself. As for portal, my M40, pentium M 1.6GHz, 1.5GBRAM, GeForce 6600Go 128MB could run it at 1280x800 (no AA, no AF low-med settings of course) so unless you have an intel IGP it will definitely run on your laptop. That being said, the load times were awful on the 4200RPM HDD in that laptop.

Edited by tijo, 15 May 2011 - 06:46 AM.

[Lux et Veritas]

I currently have a 1600 * 900 screen resolution running 9300m gs , core 2 duo 2.66 Ghz with 4GB ram . Lol . Everything is acceptable except the GPU xD

I feel that high resolutions plus low setting = ugly >.>

Plus Steam just won't let me download it , it says preparing files and gets stuck there . When I try to close it , steam stops responding . Oddly , it says my TF2 is updating but nothing is downloading . When i pause and resume , nothing . When I try to play it , it stops responding as well .

This is why I really hate steam >.>

Oh one more question , I know this is subjective . Does AA really matter ? I've never tried running any games with AA before . Does it really make the image look much smoother around the edges ?

My previous question that you guys missed out ,

Quote

Assuming I run the same resolution 1920 * 1200 on both screens (my future laptop e.g. 15 - 17 inch and an external monitor 20ish inch) , will I get the same FPS on the external monitor ?

On another note , don't you sleep ? It's 3pm here . I'm assuming it's night time over there ?

[tijo]

Just got back from a lan that ended quite late and downloaded the new ps3 firmware (psn outage...). Going to sleep now. Yep the monitor doesn't matter, only the resolution itself. You'll get the same fps on different monitors if the resolution is the same. Whether AA makes a difference is subjective, i find that in GW1 it does but in other games, not so much.

[Lux et Veritas]

The PSN is up for you guys already ? I'll check mine later .

Good night then (:

[seanyo_82]

is this a good website to get a laptop because you can configure it

http://www.pcspecial...ptop-computers/

[tijo]

Those are clevos, one looks like it's from another brand (compal) but i'm pretty sure all the others are from Clevo. I would look for other clevo resellers in the UK just to compare prices. Kobalt is one. They seem decent but i don't like the fact that they don't offer the HD6970m option in their laptops.

http://www.kobaltcomputers.co.uk/

EDIT: When i wrote my post with the psn comment, the network wasn't up for me but i could at least dl the firmware. We get less attention from Sony in Canada than in the US. It took forever for us to have netflix on our PS3s

Edited by tijo, 15 May 2011 - 03:17 PM.

[Lux et Veritas]

Is it possible to buy a clevo laptop directly ? Instead of getting it from someone like sager instead ?

[tijo]

Lux et Veritas said:

Is it possible to buy a clevo laptop directly ? Instead of getting it from someone like sager instead ?

That is one thing i don't know. Some resellers won't rebrand them but if you can buy directly from Clevo, i have no idea. You could ask in the clevo notebookreview forums.

[Lux et Veritas]

Got a question on the different type of RAM .

What are these ...

Quote

Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, Mushkin, PC3-8500/10600/10666, Mhz 1066 - 1333 , Sodimm , CL7 / 9 , Non ECC ?

I know the first 4 are different brand names but the rest ?

[Elder III]

http://www.hardwares...com/article/167

If it's not in their I don't need to know it... and I build computers for money, so it should cover the bases for you too. :)

[messwitme]

So I'm considering a Sager NP5160 from XoticPC.
Basically, I need a laptop I can bring with me to class (university) and do normal computing with, and last probably 4+ years. But once GW2 comes out, I intend to play it on occasion.
Based on this guide and the options available on xotic, here's my build that I'm hopefully gonna get by the end of this summer:
Sager NP5160 / Clevo W150HN
- 15.6 HD+ Matte (1600x900)
- SB i5 2520M, 2.5-3.2 ghz
- nVidia GT 540M 1024MB GDDR3 w/ Optimus
- 4 gb ram, 320gb 7200RPM SataII
- Intel Advanced N 6230
- and probably the custom skin with Louis Vuitton print :D
Total comes out to $880 + $28 shipping

Thing is, the upgrade from SB i5 2520M to i7 2630QM(2.0-2.8ghz) is only $25. I'm only gonna be using this laptop for internet, ms office, listening to music, and chatting, not gonna use it for photo/video editing (Bio Major). Is this minor upgrade from dual to quad core, and drop in ghz, going to affect heat and battery life? Again, I want this laptop to last 4ish years.

P.S. Should I hold off on this clevo and wait for ivy bridge? and will the cpu be upgradeable on this?

[Lux et Veritas]

Elder III said:

http://www.hardwares...com/article/167

If it's not in their I don't need to know it... and I build computers for money, so it should cover the bases for you too. :)

Thank you Elder for imparting your wisdom ! I will definitely treasure it (:

[tijo]

messwitme said:

So I'm considering a Sager NP5160 from XoticPC.
Basically, I need a laptop I can bring with me to class (university) and do normal computing with, and last probably 4+ years. But once GW2 comes out, I intend to play it on occasion.
Based on this guide and the options available on xotic, here's my build that I'm hopefully gonna get by the end of this summer:
Sager NP5160 / Clevo W150HN
- 15.6 HD+ Matte (1600x900)
- SB i5 2520M, 2.5-3.2 ghz
- nVidia GT 540M 1024MB GDDR3 w/ Optimus
- 4 gb ram, 320gb 7200RPM SataII
- Intel Advanced N 6230
- and probably the custom skin with Louis Vuitton print :D
Total comes out to $880 + $28 shipping

Thing is, the upgrade from SB i5 2520M to i7 2630QM(2.0-2.8ghz) is only $25. I'm only gonna be using this laptop for internet, ms office, listening to music, and chatting, not gonna use it for photo/video editing (Bio Major). Is this minor upgrade from dual to quad core, and drop in ghz, going to affect heat and battery life? Again, I want this laptop to last 4ish years.

P.S. Should I hold off on this clevo and wait for ivy bridge? and will the cpu be upgradeable on this?

With this, i'd say you're looking at a solid medium with maybe a few high settings thrown in. There will be a difference in heat between the i5 and i7 but nothing that sager can't handle though i would say you don't need the i7. The i7 will win in apps that can make use of 4 cores but you don't really need it in my opinion and you'll get better battery life with the i5 (you'll get maybe 15-20 mins but no more, the SB i7s are less power hungry than the previous gen). Then again, for the upgrade price, i'd get the quad like elder said.

I totally second getting a matte screen and an intel wi-fi adapter (there's a world of difference between the stock atheros that came in my G73 and the intel 6200 that i upgraded to).

EDIT: I don't think we'll see ivy bridge laptops soon so i would go for sandy bridge if you are starting uni this fall.

EDIT2: Lux, i didn't see SODIMM mentioned in Elder's awesome article but basically, it's laptop RAM, the pin arrangement on the connector is different from desktop RAM.

Edited by tijo, 16 May 2011 - 02:36 PM.

[Elder III]

messwitme said:

So I'm considering a Sager NP5160 from XoticPC.


Thing is, the upgrade from SB i5 2520M to i7 2630QM(2.0-2.8ghz) is only $25. I'm only gonna be using this laptop for internet, ms office, listening to music, and chatting, not gonna use it for photo/video editing (Bio Major). Is this minor upgrade from dual to quad core, and drop in ghz, going to affect heat and battery life? Again, I want this laptop to last 4ish years.

For a difference of $25 I would get a quad core.  It may not matter allot now, but if you want it to be more relevant 4 years from now, a quad core is the way to go.  Things are slowly trending towards using more cores (ok, very slowly) and I would hate to not get one now when the difference is the cost of a 2 for $20 at Applebee's.

Lux et Veritas said:

Thank you Elder for imparting your wisdom ! I will definitely treasure it (:

Well, you're welcome, but it's not my wisdom.... I just learned things from others, the same as you are now. :)

tijo said:

EDIT2: Lux, i didn't see SODIMM mentioned in Elder's awesome article but basically, it's laptop RAM, the pin arrangement on the connector is different from desktop RAM.

Righto tijo - generally SODIMM means laptop RAM & DIMM means desktop RAM.  The pin arrangement is different and SODIMMs are about half the length too.... and they are more expensive for the same amount of course. :D

[Lux et Veritas]

Aw I messed up ):

I was trying to make it sound like as if you're some kind of elder ... like spock's father / yoda and that you're imparting knowledge since your name has an elder in it . Did it pretty badly huh ? xD

On a more relevant note , do you know of any new laptops that are coming out soon with a GTX 485m ? What about the 585m ? Should I wait for that instead ? I know that this is a never ending waiting game so you might as well not wait because there won't be a best graphics card .

@Tijo , thanks for the additional info (:

[tijo]

No news on a 585m and there may not be one, there was no 385m, only the 285 before the 485. I don't know of any laptops besides Clevos with the 485m, you have more options with the 6970m (well if you consider alienware an option ;)) and it performs almost as well as a 485m.

So far, i haven't seen any upcoming models from Asus, MSI or others with the 6970m or 485m, only the 560m.

[Lux et Veritas]

Oh right , cause I taught there was a 585 coming sometime in the future .

I'm definitely open to all options , as well as the GTX 485M Sli xD Probably out of my price range and it simply kills the battery life right ? How long do you think one with a 485m Sli can last ? 30 mins ? lol .

Oh and do you have any idea how long is the battery life on the P170HM when gaming ?

I may be getting the P150HM instead because of the lighter weight but without the loss of performance . What do you think of this ?

And what is the difference between matte and glossy ? for example .

Quote

17.3" FHD 16:9 "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Glossy Screen w/ 90% NTSC Color Gamut (1920x1080)

what's NTSC ?

I noticed that according to this website , http://www.gamingonl....com/buy/clevo/

there are some websites that ships worldwide ?

edit 2 : But I read on some other websites that they charge for international shipping ? D:

Edited by Lux et Veritas, 17 May 2011 - 01:51 PM.

[tijo]

You will kill your battery if you pay games on it, like 20-30 mins of battery life at most, you need to be plugged in to game. According to xotic, it's 2-3hours depending on the power settings under normal usage.

NTSC is a television format standard, the one in North America and i don't know what other regions, for Europe, it's PAL. Of course, on a computer this doesn't really matter.

The resellers will charge for international shipping of course, it costs more to ship something from the US to another country than shipping domestic. The cost to ship a $1500 laptop is minimal compared to the cost of the notebook itself though. I would check if you have to pay custom fees due to the value of the item though.

With the same configuration, the P150HM will give the same performance as the P170HM but it might make a little more noise since the heat generating hardware is closer. Be warned, a Clevo will make more noise than netbook or a more potable laptop.