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NCSoft Q1 2011 conference call


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#121 WinterSnowblind

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 01:20 PM

Krazzar said:

During the last call NCSoft applauded Anet's business model and thought it worked very well in the west. "Not the end of it" could mean any number of things, but more specifically means they're not done looking at potential options for making money.

I also don't see where beta testing in the second half off the year translates into 2012 release. Beta should last about a month meaning if it is before November GW2 could be released in 2011.

Specifically, that closed beta testing will take place late in the year.   Closed beta testing is unlikely to be a fast process, the fact that's coming so late isn't a good sign and we know for definite that there will be some form of open test.  "More activities into 2012" pretty much outright says there won't be a release this year.

I agree with you about the payment models though, people seem to be jumping up and down on conclusions about that.  It's a business meeting, they're obviously going to highlight ways they plan on making money from the game more than anything else..  That doesn't mean they're suddenly going to go back on not having a monthly fee (which is the single biggest selling point of the game), nor does it mean they will have game advantage items in the cash shop.

#122 Vylia

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 01:31 PM

Between...

Quote

"...there will be a certain type of closed beta testing before the end of the year..."

and

Quote

"...so that means there will be more activities in 2012..."

...it really is time for people to be realistic.

GW2 is not being released in 2011, and while hugely disappointing, there could not be clearer evidence or a more telling statement that 2012 will be the year of release.

Disappointing, yes, but there's simply no way to reasonably even debate that there will be a 2011 release.

He's referring to "more activities" regarding pre-release "activities", such as public betas etc., not in-game activities, to take place in 2012.

It's time to let it go and to move on and discuss things other than release date speculation.

#123 Memphisjz

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 01:34 PM

TotTWriter said:

Eh, look on it as an opportunity to save for better PC stuff so you can run it on max settings when it does launch.

I have money enough to buy a great PC, but i told myself i'm going to buy one the day GW2 releases. So i'm actually hoping the release is after the new Intel processors (Ivy Bridge) or Nvidia Geforce GTX 6xx series... which is near the beginning of 2012 :D But that's about the only good thing about a later release date

#124 Tilion

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 01:34 PM

I'm still up with my 2011 plan. It's not what i hope, it's what i see that's going to happen.

#125 Howl

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 01:34 PM

I'm so happy now that we know for sure the game is going out in 2011 :)

#126 Solstice

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 01:40 PM

RagnoDonna said:

However, this was an NCSoft call, not ArenaNet, and NCSoft are certainly not averse to subscription fees. For example, http://massively.joy...an-microtransa/

Hehe ... :devil:

Cue Family Guy, Stewie voice:

Quote

So ... umm ... Tabula Rasa ... yeah ... massive sci-fi based MMO ... subscription based ... yeah? ... was gonna be huge ... had that Mr Garriot fella ... next big thing for MMOs ... So ... ummm ... so how’s that working out for you?”

On a side note cannot be bothered registering to get the full article, so it may actually contain some useful insight into the things he himself amongst others learnt from the disaster that was Tabula Rasa.

#127 Mordakai

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 02:20 PM

Tr0n said:

Hmm, I could see them offering multiple packages.

Buy the game and play for free, buy from in-game store separately.
Buy the game, pay a monthly sub and get the stuff from in-game store included.

Really?

That would be confusing, and unless they offer $15 of new stuff from the in-game store every month, a total ripoff to subscribers.

.... and they would be accused of lying.

I can't see them doing this at all.

#128 borovnica

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 02:32 PM

You really can't read text without making some sort of a conspiracy. GW2 is b2p with items shop. I know that Tron would like to see GW2 fail, that is what I get from reading most his posts :D jk.

They are just looking in what they can sell in item shop. Maybe they want to sell dungeons, or some small personal story arcs like an add-on, etc.... Hence the reason why they are researching a way to make most of the profit, while staying b2p mmo.
I hardly think they would do something like Tron suggested.

#129 Alycat

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 02:34 PM

I can't believe people are getting so bent out of shape over a call to investors.  Investors!  You do realize they require a more specific business model than the customers.  All we need to know is know is no subscription fees, but b2p with micro-transactions instead.  They want elaborate charts and graphs, projected revenue and lots of crunched numbers.  Those things aren't ready yet.  That's all NSoft is saying.  Good grief.

Edited by Alycat, 17 May 2011 - 02:38 PM.


#130 Kcquipor

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 02:40 PM

Howl said:

I'm so happy now that we know for sure the game is going out in 2011 :)

what ? :eek: :mad::mad::mad::mad:


Maconi said:

Well I guess that's it for me then. I'm gonna put myself in a GW2 information blackout for the rest of the year since there's no reason to keep teasing myself.

See you guys this winter!

I realy want to do it too but my soul says that i need to stay here :p

Edited by Kcquipor, 17 May 2011 - 02:46 PM.


#131 Deffbee

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 02:44 PM

Aww Mannn Im going back in the freezer

#132 Kalfer

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 02:50 PM

At the end of the days, the people who work on this game, or are a part of ArenaNet/NCsoft needs to make money. Like all companies, growth is important.

Some companies understand more than others that customers satisfaction can contribute to growth, so playing nice with your customers can have it's advantages.
The other side to it, is that generally customers will take a lot of abuse, and not do anything about it. The little man sticking it to the big greedy company, is not really a threat.



There are lots of ways to increase revenue with games. Subscription fees will not happen, and things that give gameplay advantages like uber powerful items will not happen, but I could imagine lots of stuff outside the normal idea of cash shop can be.

I think we might see more stuff along the lines of paid server transfers, more character slots, more storage, unique items.


Not having a subscription will come with a price. There is always a catch. Your not getting anything without some added consequences. If you believe so, I think you will dissapointed. A person awaiting this game should their expectations in line, or thye might become part of the "Anet lied to us!!! they are soo greedy" when they require money for something you think you deserve to not pay for.

#133 Grit

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 03:09 PM

^ This

If people really enjoy the game, they will be more than willing to purchase aesthetic features and items from a cash shop without gaining any significant advantage over those who choose to save their money. GW2 can be extremely profitable with the Free-to-play model.

And to the people who still think this game is going to release in 2011.. I wish that you're right, but it's not going to happen. Be patient and grateful that with each passing day, Guild Wars 2 gets better and better.

#134 Obstinate Prime

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 03:14 PM

The more activities line could simply be more about Holiday events or other minigames not to be included with the initial launch.  

Though if they released the game before Christmas they would need to have all of their wintersday events and decorations ready by then as well.  Otherwise there would be a year without the most prestigious of holidays to the people of Tyria.  Or at the very least it would be completely watered down.  That to me would be unacceptable.  

Seeing as how they're still probably focused on putting the core concepts of the game together I find it difficult to believe that they would have the time to assemble any holiday events just yet, wintersday included.

#135 Ratchet

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 03:25 PM

Kalfer said:

Not having a subscription will come with a price. There is always a catch. Your not getting anything without some added consequences. If you believe so, I think you will dissapointed. A person awaiting this game should their expectations in line, or thye might become part of the "Anet lied to us!!! they are soo greedy" when they require money for something you think you deserve to not pay for.

I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum would disagree with you, including Jeff Strain, co-founder of Arenanet. There is no "price" to be payed in not having a subscription (blatant puns aside). Seriously, why do so many people consider that to be the default?

Using a subscription model has one set of outcomes, using a BTP model also has another set of outcomes. Having a subscription fee in a game does not mean the game will have features that other games will not. You seem to assume that there's some sort of trade-off. You know, Sony's PSN (as unfortunate as it is) has provided an online service for gamers for free over the last 5 years. I have never heard a complaint about the quality of the service itself that would have anything to do with Sony not getting $15 a month from users for no reason. sure, some drunkards never bothered updating their apache server or maintaining security but having a subscription would not have changed that.

Microsoft: $12+ dollars a month.
Sony: $0

You can play CoD: Black Ops on both and have the same experience. absolutely parallel in almost every way. So where's the trade-off? No developer needs to be handed over free money (to the effect of 2.5 box purchases worth per year) to upkeep their game. Subscription fees are a ripoff. honestly think about it. Does any other genre of videogame rest on millions of free dollars per month to make new content? no way. Pick any big non-MMO gaming company. they all keep their studios running just fine, creating new games without having money thrown at them through subscription fees. How are MMO's any different from any other genre of videogame apart from "being online". does being online justify World of Warcraft demanding up to $1000 from players who have been playing since 2004? think about it. World of Warcraft does not need $1,000,000,000 per year to keep servers online. And we have Guild Wars to prove it.

EDIT: In retrospect...I understand this is a bit of a rant and that many many people have re-iterated this point to the death but it feels like it never seems to get through.

Edited by Ratchet, 17 May 2011 - 03:28 PM.


#136 upier

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 03:41 PM

Ratchet said:

And we have Guild Wars to prove it.
A game that has currently 3 people working on it?

They might not NEED the money, but if they are not getting it, they also won't WANT to work on it.

#137 Solstice

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 03:50 PM

If NCSoft/Arenanet were thinking of ways to shift the cash shop to the next level, while avoiding the ‘pay-to-win’ pitfalls, I can easily foresee unique armour skin and weapon skin packs becoming available in addition to the current costumed-themed offerings.

Although no doubt some would not be too happy with that given the attitude from some areas that you should need to put in the work/time/effort to get even that.

Anyhow, from a cash shop perspective I would hazard a guess there is an untapped market segment. Those individuals reluctant to waste unwanted hours repeatedly running the same dungeon to obtain a cool-looking armour set or hoping for that unique weapon to drop. Instead, peruse the cash shop, think ‘Ooh shiny!’ and happily purchase something so that they can continue to play the game the way they want to play.

To be honest, if it was just armour/weapon skins this would not bother me at all. In fact if the trainee artists at Arenanet really produced some great looking 'skin' packs I would be there handing over my hard-earned cash.

Edited by Solstice, 17 May 2011 - 04:02 PM.


#138 Datenshi92

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 03:52 PM

There's no subscription fee. Over. Period.

Fees implicate other things like grinding and farming to keep players there, just look at AION and WoW. GW1 had these flaws but it was a B2P and it survived so far, with a sequel on the way. From this point on, any theory that a good game needs a fee to survive is a lie and just because it only has a few people in it, doesn't mean that they don't deserve their payment as well!
I think that the money that the company gains with their sales and other stuff, doesn't go entirely to a single team but its redistributed to the whole staff in the building.

Also, its annoying how easly threads like this are a grindfest for conspiracies, I can't have an interesting/informative reading without bumping with anyone "preaching" their wishfull thinking ideas...

I don't care what these investors say about GW2, I only trust on Anet.

PS: As far as I know, these "2012" activites could mean new ways to bring in investiment even AFTER the release of the game.

Edited by Datenshi92, 17 May 2011 - 04:01 PM.


#139 Drakhar Darksoul

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 04:11 PM

upier said:

A game that has currently 3 people working on it?

They might not NEED the money, but if they are not getting it, they also won't WANT to work on it.

Haha this. I have no problem paying a sub fee if I see a return on it, which (incoming: haters gonna hate) I got from both SOE for EQ and Blizzard for WoW. Don't get me wrong, GW1 is a great game, and I invested many hours in it, but to be honest it's not even in the same class as EQ/WoW.

We know for a fact GW2 will not have a sub fee, but will also be able to compete with the big boys of the MMO world, which I completely believe they can do. While the doomsaying in this thread is bringing me many the lulz, I really hope ANet/NCSoft realize that with every day that passes, another group of people loses interest in GW2 and/or picks up another game instead.

As stated by several other posters, you can't look too much into this call to investors, but at the same time I'm starting to agree that we won't see a release until Q1/Q2 2012, at which point I will most likely have completely lost interest in the game... again. By October, information on the new WoW expansion will be out of the bag, D3's release will be imminent, and there could be some insight on project Titan, and that's just from Blizzard. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place here: release GW2 too early and have a subpar game, release too late and fade back into obscurity where only the die-hards wearing GWAMM give two sh*ts anymore. (exaggeration, don't troll me too hard plox)

Edited by Drakhar Darksoul, 17 May 2011 - 04:15 PM.


#140 Mister_Smiley

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 04:24 PM

SO....so....Its Ncsoft...i mean common people its NCsoft... I'm sorry but till Anet says "No Gw2 till 2012 or later" I'm sticking with 2011 release date, till then NCsoft can take a spoon and suck on it. Ncsoft will tell investors what ever they want to here, no matter if is true or not.

If it doesn't come Anets mouth i don't believe it.

#141 dhatcher1

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 04:25 PM

WinterSnowblind said:

"More activities into 2012" pretty much outright says there won't be a release this year.
This is an investor call.  In this context Activity ==  Revenue generation, not trade show demos like you are thinking.  I interpret that line as them saying Anet is going to generate more revenue than it has so far in 2011 due to GW2's release.  It doesnt really have any bearing on GW2 releasing Q4 2011 or Q1/2 2012.

#142 Psydrome

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 04:35 PM

this makes me :(

#143 Regina Buenaobra

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:21 PM

All right, everyone. Seems that this investor call got a few people worked up, so I wanted to reiterate information about beta and the business model.

Our release date remains "When it's done" and our current beta timing is still closed alpha/beta this year, with public beta and release to be determined based upon feedback from closed alpha/beta.

The business model remains subscription-free (buy the game, no monthly fees) with microtransactions, which you have long known about. Other games charge a subscription fee to provide ongoing game content. As you know from Rick's posts on the forums, microstransactions in Guild Wars 2 are going to help sustain the game and provide you with ongoing game content.

So, really, the investor call revealed nothing new to fans who have been following the game closely. For investors, the call was informational and provided status updates for them. Unlike fans, investors don't constantly hit F5 on the blog or the Guild Wars 2 website to track every single minute detail. :)

#144 Solstice

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:27 PM

Regina Buenaobra said:

Unlike fans, investors don't constantly hit F5 on the blog or the Guild Wars 2 website to track every single minute detail. :)

Pffff, call themselves investors !?! :D

Nah, just kidding, no one here needs to tell me about institutional investors, portfolio management etc. :)

Edited by Solstice, 17 May 2011 - 05:47 PM.


#145 Stuart444

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:32 PM

Thanks for the post Regina, I hope this calms people down :)

#146 Rexxus

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:00 PM

Thanks Regina, I know I can trust you guys from Anet!

#147 bensybob

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:07 PM

Thanks Regina things were getting a little mad here
I'm optimistic that the comment about the release date was telling us not to dismiss a 2011 release date as there was no real reason to mention it otherwise.. :)

#148 Memphisjz

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:30 PM

Hey i don't constantly hit F5 ! Only like once every 30 seconds ...

And i'm suprised this game is still in Alpha, i mean look at the awesomeness already...
I hope they do not change to much to the game or it is going to cause a financial crisis: Everyone is going to quit their job the moment this game gets released in order to play it non-stop for the next 10 years!

Edited by Memphisjz, 17 May 2011 - 06:33 PM.


#149 Zungx

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:34 PM

I just love how people got all riled up about this whole thing. I can understand why, it is just humorous.

#150 dansamy

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:35 PM

Regina Buenaobra said:

Unlike fans, investors don't constantly hit F5 on the blog or the Guild Wars 2 website to track every single minute detail. :)

Well.... poorly informed investors don't! Crazed, rabid fans who are also investors do! ;)

In all seriousness, I only hit F5 maybe once an hour. Holding breath & waiting for profession release (please be mesmer, please!)