[TedTheShred]

Threads like these make me so happy. So much so, I'd like to discuss something similar.

Considering the year, and having read this today (particularly this quirks and quarks broadcast wherein the researcher proposes that crocodillia once occupied many of the niches we currently see mammals occupying), I've decided to spark up a discussion on the system of evolution by natural selection in Tyria. Does this system even appear in Tyria, ie. is there evidentiary support? How does magic affect this process? Are the legends regarding the origins of species metaphorical, misinterpreted or literal?

The game takes a rather interesting 'what-if?' approach to evolutionary dynamics. Almost every form of life we have classified on Earth is represented by a sentient group in Tyria.

This thread will take some time to compile, so I shall post an incomplete version and expand based on my own conjectures and those of commenters.

Let me start with the 5 races:

Human: Closest relative species on Earth: Homo Sapiens. If Tyrian Humans followed Earth Humans through evolution, primates would be their closest biological ancestors. Three obvious groups of primates have been encountered in Tyria: Grawl, 'Tusked' and 'Simean'. However, Humanity did not first appear on the continent of Tyria nor Elona. Cantha is noted as the first place Humanity was witnessed. Only one primate, besides Human, exists on Cantha: Yeti. Outwardly, this is suprising, but they are referred to in this quest as 'knuckle-dragging primates'.

Norn: Closest relative species on Earth: Homo Sapiens. The implication in the Official Wiki is that there is an implication that the Norn are related in some way to Humans. This would suggest either a direct genetic descendant of Humanity or an earlier convergent splinter from a different set of primates, the only primates found on the continent of Tyria.

Charr: Closest relative species on Earth: Feliformia. The Charr are something of an anomaly in Tyria. The only other Felines in Tyria are charmable animals, taking the exact name and form of big cats found on Earth.

Asura:Closest relative species on Earth: Some kind of Subterranean Rodent. Classifying the Asura is tricky. It's inspiration is clearly The Brain, but I'd like to understand what environmental pressures would give the Asura their characteristics. Small, pale, large eyed, and carnivorous.

Sylvari: The Sylvari are an exception, but still one worth exploring. We've seen their origin. The assumption is that magic plays a large role, if not the sole role, in their creation, but it's possible this is merely a misinterpretation. Plants, in Tyria have followed evolutionary tracts to achieve sentience. The adoption of an anthropomorphic form is puzzling, though.

Now let's look at the other races of Tyria:

Tengu: The Tengu display one particularly notable hallmark of the evolutionary adaptations we see in birds today: Plumage. Caromi, Sensali, Avicara, and Quetzal "tribes" all display different plumage. Most likely to blend with the environment or for courtship purposes. The likelyhood is that the Tengu have closer genetic ties to the Raptors of the Tarnished Coast than with any of the charmable pets.

Naga: The Naga population—water-dwelling creatures related to sea snakes which evolved a culture at peace with humans. On Earth, the Niuean sea snake; which must breed on land; represents a precedent for amphibian Naga descendant from sea snakes.

Fish: The Fish of the Jade Sea shed light on the role of Magic in the evolutionary process. Taking to land so quickly seems impossible. There are two possible causes: 1. These creatures existed before Shiro's Death Wail. 2. Magic acts like radiation, rapidly mutating the creatures of Tyria. If Magic acts like radiation, large numbers of fish were mutated upon Shiro's death. Those that mutated beneficial traits survived and bred into the Fish we see now.

Forgotten:

Dredge: Closest relative species on Earth: Belsmols.

Centaur:

Found here is the Mind Map I've been sporadically working on. I've set it up as a WikiMap, so anyone can make changes. The Password is: GuildWars2

Taxonomy of Tyria

Edited by TedTheShred, 23 December 2009 - 12:16 AM.

[erickn]

Quote

Like the Naga, the Fish of the Jade Sea have adapted to the shift from a liquid sea to a solid crystal blindingly fast.

This is lamarck, not darwin xDDD.

[Arghore]

You are forgetting the Grawl on Tyria, although not native to Cantha, they are Primates and could well be another branch on the Human/Norn/Grawl-family tree ...

more likely evolution of creatures on tyria would be though:
1. Concept description or creature idea
2. Sketches and scribbles
3. Concept drawings
4. Concept Art
5. 3D moddel
6. Textured 3D model
7. Animated Creature
8. Spawnpoint creation and path setting..

;) ... though i like your effort and ill be looking forward to your update, you should not forget parts of this have also to do with the Creational power of the mists (which can create creatures on its own or mimic excisting creature template), Corrupting power of Dragons which twist excisting creatures into new ones (personally i think the Mandragor are a result of a previous flight of a dragon, mostlikely Krakatorric, seeing these creatures excist on Elona and in EotN area's, which, appart from ascalon would cover it's flight path up north somewhat) ...

[draxynnic]

The Norn strike me as having a similar relationship to humanity as the Neanderthals did - a subspecies rather than a seperate species (the Prenuptial Disagreement quest implies that Olaf at least believes humans and Norn can breed viable children) unless there's some "anything can breed with anything" magic in operation. The analogy works at an additional level when you consider the Norn to be essentially a cold-weather adaptation of the species. Question is, of course, whether this happened in the time since humanity arrived (a little over a thousand years) or whether they've been around for longer - the relationship between Norn and Charr actually seems to imply they were around before the settlement of Ascalon. Could this mean that humanity had settled the area before, then left (apart from those that would become the Norn) and finally returned again?

Regarding the Asura, the pressures are actually fairly obvious when considering underground living. Large eyes - most creatures that spend most of their time underground have either large eyes (to collect the most light in dim conditions) or do away with them altogether - that the Asura have gone the first way is evident in how the sun hurts their eyes when they're forced to live on the surface. The ears are because, even with those eyes, another sense is Good to Have in the dark. Pale is also common underground (no point to melanin if you're not going to be exposed to the sun) and being small is advantageous for getting through narrow passages (although being apparently Rodentia, they probably started off small to begin with and have in fact been growing as a species rather than the opposite).

[Sirius]

Due to the fact that, of course, the real way these things were developed was just turning concepts that looked cool into models, chances are an attempt to force an evolutionary tree onto them is going to run aground at some point.

Doesn't mean it can't be an interesting exercise though, I guess.

[Konig Des Todes]

Sirius said:

Due to the fact that, of course, the real way these things were developed was just turning concepts that looked cool into models, chances are an attempt to force an evolutionary tree onto them is going to run aground at some point.

The point of the lore forum is pretty much to add and discuss on what the devs have, and more importantly, might not have thought up of just yet.

So this is a pretty good project to think of.

Firstly, I don't think we should compare anything to "what is found on Earth" - as for some, the only reference may just be a nightmare or a case of getting high for an idea. :p

Anyways, I do believe evolution has its process in Tyria (and the Rift), because things would die off if it didn't if there area were to change (i.e., elder dragons for instance, or nightfall *it did happen, just got reverted*). But there are a few things I need to comment on, aside from the relations to earthly creatures:

TedTheShred said:

I've decided to spark up a discussion on the system of evolution by natural selection in Tyria. Does this system even appear in Tyria, ie. is there evidentiary support? How does magic affect this process? Are the legends regarding the origins of species metaphorical, misinterpreted or literal?

There are a few races which support an evolutionary split - and as we will see more creatures in GW2, one of which at least is similar (if not the same) race as others seen, once the game is released, this discussion could be taken full force.

TedTheShred said:

Human: Closest relative species on Earth: Homo Sapiens. If Tyrian Humans followed Earth Humans through evolution, primates would be their closest biological ancestors. Two obvious groups of primates have been encountered in Tyria, 'Tusked' and 'Simean'. However, Humanity did not first appear on the Tarnished Coast nor Elona. Cantha is noted as the first place Humanity was witnessed. Only one primate, besides Human, exists on Cantha: Yeti. Outwardly, this is suprising, but they are referred to in this quest as 'knuckle-dragging primates'.
Norn: Closest relative species on Earth: Homo Sapiens. The implication in the Official Wiki is that there is an implication that the Norn are related in some way to Humans. This would suggest either a direct genetic descendant of Humanity or an earlier convergent splinter from a different set of primates, the only primates found on the continent of Tyria.

Due to the closeness of these two races, I'll comment at once. Firstly, Humanity, I think, may not be a case of evolution - unless the history of them is a lie - as the History of Tyria said they appear without anything other creatures had - and included examples which primates have.

Also, you forgot one important primate: The Grawl.

On the Norn, instead of them being linked to any primate, I'd say that their appearance is near full proof of them having descended from humanity. Why do I say this? If a monkey (Simian or Grawl in this case) were to of gone into the Shiverpeaks and lived there, why would it lose its hair? Instead, humans didn't have hair, so there would then become two ways for evolution to take place - regrowing hair, or the skin and body adapts to the cold. The later is what appears to of happened.

And to note, I think the Grawl evolved from the Simians - a more upright, slightly more intelligent, version.

TedTheShred said:

Asura:Closest relative species on Earth: Some kind of Subterranean Rodent. Classifying the Asura is tricky. It's inspiration is clearly The Brain, but I'd like to understand what environmental pressures would give the Asura their characteristics. Small, pale, large eyed, and carnivorous.

This is a major case where I think relating a race to something more earthly would be a mistake. In essence, like with all races, I don't think we can link the origin of this race - seeing how we know nothing on their origin. We do not know if they adapted to underground living, of it they were always living underground.

TedTheShred said:

The likelyhood is that the Tengu have closer genetic ties to the Raptors of the Tarnished Coast than with any of the charmable pets.

I highly disagree. If the evolution acted in the same manner as reality, and the raptors are like their reference - ancient - then it would be that the evolution process went: Raptor->Average Bird->Tengu. Why do I say this? Well raptors are the predecessors of various birds - just as the t-rex is the predecessor of chickens (still love the irony in that) - and Tengu are known to have once been able to fly. If the Tengu were once able to fly, they had to come more directly from something that could fly, and they lost the ability to fly in the evolution (I believe the lose of flight is why the Tengu are in Tyria and Cantha - the Canthan are Tengu who migrated south but couldn't/wouldn't fly back north for the spring). It is equally likely that the Tengu were created by the Mists which took in the "template" of a bird and twisted it a little to have a flying version of the Tengu.

TedTheShred said:

Naga:

Forgotten:

These two, I think, are as similar to each other as the two kinds of Centaurs (Elonian and Tyrian). Similar origin - possibly evolving from snakes from somewhere else, then the Naga evolving from the Forgotten. Though they would be as different as an aquatic snake from a snake which can survive in the desert (such as a rattlesnake).

[TedTheShred]

Konig Des Todes said:

The point of the lore forum is pretty much to add and discuss on what the devs have, and more importantly, might not have thought up of just yet.

Thank you for articulating the point of threads like these.

Konig Des Todes said:

Firstly, I don't think we should compare anything to "what is found on Earth" - as for some, the only reference may just be a nightmare or a case of getting high for an idea.

I think Earth is the only place we can look to when attempting to decipher the evolutionary chains in Tyria. Earth is the only ecosystem we can study, and Earth is clearly the basis for Tyria. Darwin studied the Galapagos Islands as a microcosm of Earth's, we must study Earth as an analogy of Tyria.

Konig Des Todes said:

On the Norn, instead of them being linked to any primate, I'd say that their appearance is near full proof of them having descended from humanity. Why do I say this? If a monkey (Simian or Grawl in this case) were to of gone into the Shiverpeaks and lived there, why would it lose its hair? Instead, humans didn't have hair, so there would then become two ways for evolution to take place - regrowing hair, or the skin and body adapts to the cold. The later is what appears to of happened.

The Grawl do not live exclusively in the Shiverpeaks. Large populations of Grawl live in Old Ascalon and the Charr Homelands. In these environments Humans outpaced the Grawl. One could imagine a precursor to the Norn splintering from the Grawl in this warmer climate, shedding the need for fur. Migrating north away from the Grawl and the Charr might've been their only only means of survival.

Konig Des Todes said:

If the evolution acted in the same manner as reality, and the raptors are like their reference - ancient - then it would be that the evolution process went: Raptor->Average Bird->Tengu. Why do I say this? Well raptors are the predecessors of various birds - just as the t-rex is the predecessor of chickens (still love the irony in that) - and Tengu are known to have once been able to fly. If the Tengu were once able to fly, they had to come more directly from something that could fly, and they lost the ability to fly in the evolution (I believe the lose of flight is why the Tengu are in Tyria and Cantha - the Canthan are Tengu who migrated south but couldn't/wouldn't fly back north for the spring). It is equally likely that the Tengu were created by the Mists which took in the "template" of a bird and twisted it a little to have a flying version of the Tengu.

I would like to disagree. I think the split would have occurred not long after the Raptor. The loss of 'hands' in the average bird indicates a split earlier on. The likelihood is higher that the Tengu descended from a Raptor-like creature with 'hands' than from a bird-like creature that had previously shed 'hands' and redeveloped them.

[Konig Des Todes]

TedTheShred said:

I think Earth is the only place we can look to when attempting to decipher the evolutionary chains in Tyria. Earth is the only ecosystem we can study, and Earth is clearly the basis for Tyria. Darwin studied the Galapagos Islands as a microcosm of Earth's, we must study Earth as an analogy of Tyria.

I think you misunderstood me. We can - and should - look to Earth's evolutionary process for figuring out the evolutionary process of Tyrian creatures, however we shouldn't focus on the influence for the design of the creatures.

TedTheShred said:

The Grawl do not live exclusively in the Shiverpeaks. Large populations of Grawl live in Old Ascalon and the Charr Homelands. In these environments Humans outpaced the Grawl. One could imagine a precursor to the Norn splintering from the Grawl in this warmer climate, shedding the need for fur. Migrating north away from the Grawl and the Charr might've been their only only means of survival.

I hope you do not think that I did not remember that the Grawl live in the Charr Homeland/Ascalon area. Due to the differences between the Grawl and Norn, but the similarities between the Humans and Norn (the Norn are literally just large humans who can shape shift). Grawls - aside from the fur - have different shaped skulls/faces, different kinds of teeth (they are sharp, if I remember correctly, therefore are most likely carnivores).

TedTheShred said:

I would like to disagree. I think the split would have occurred not long after the Raptor. The loss of 'hands' in the average bird indicates a split earlier on. The likelihood is higher that the Tengu descended from a Raptor-like creature with 'hands' than from a bird-like creature that had previously shed 'hands' and redeveloped them.

The "early Tengu" were most likely the true split. That is, the Tengu that could fly, had wings with talons - which split two ways - the loss of the talons, and what we see today. So in a way, there were birds that were before. Just not the kinds we see or commonly think of - kind of like one of the typical dragon designs (ones that has wing membranes along its arms, instead of another set of limbs) - just feathered.

[TedTheShred]

In this thread, I am attempting to understand the genetic layout of Tyria. I would hope to classify each creature in Tyria into groups and determine their place in relation to one another.

Hopefully, this will cement a better understanding of what forces guide the development of the species and how they operate.

I'm working on a Mind Map right now and am wondering if anyone is interested in contributing. MindMeister is the program I'm using. It's web-based, easy to use, and allows multiple people to simultaneously edit the map. If you'd like to contribute, either PM me or post here with your mindmeister account and I'll give you access.

Once the map is more complete, I will post a picture of it here.

[Operative 14]

When you're talking about the primate species of Tyria you also have to remember the Ettins, if not the trolls as well.

I think one thing that is kind of strange about Tyria in comparison to Earth is the shear volume of sentient species that developed alongside each other. I think that it is interesting that the OP lists 10 species, of which 9 of them are on basically equal terms with humans (being able to talk, make armor, etc.). That level of cultural and technological development would certainly play a role in natural selection and species evolution; I.E. fundamentally changing or stopping it altogether for each of those species.

The direct hand that the Gods played in the development of Tyria must also not be discounted as well. There are a lot of situations where the gods might have interfered in forming or developing a race and drastically affected 'natural' selection. From what I've read (and I may have really misinterpreted some stuff here) it sounds like the gods considered humans to be a pet project. Since most of that lore is biased towards humans, it seems possible to me that the Gods could have had many projects going simultaneously, some along similar lines to others (Humans, Yeti, Norn, etc.) and others along very different lines. If they were just muddling with a basic template, that might explain where the Norn came from, for instance. Since you have an outside force that was playing around with evolution in one form or another, you can have two drastically similar (Human and Norn) or two drastically different (Yeti and Naga) forms, all of which might be independent species, but just similar because Balthazar wasn't feeling particularly creative that day.

That mind mapping thing looks really interesting I'd love to help out. :D

[Rivenheart]

Another point to remember is that not all species may have evolved on the same planet. The Forgotten were brought to Tyria after all.

Quote

http://wiki.guildwar...yria_%28work%29

It was almost three thousand years ago that a race of serpents stepped out of the Rift onto the soil of Tyria. Unlike ordinary serpents, these moved upright, used language, and adhered to an elaborate culture. They had been summoned by the old gods, brought to this world to be the custodians. Their task: shepherd the other creatures of the land through this time of transition, while the gods continued to create the world around them.

[Ambitious]

Are we ruling out the possibility of the races being created by a god? I assume so.

Just to clear things up: Is the purpose to inquire the origins of the races by natural selection and/or evolution? I'm kind of lost.

[draxynnic]

Personally, one thing I'd find curious here is the dragon/drake family:

In Tyria, most drakes appear to be lizard-like, much like a scaled up Dune Lizard. Unlike Earth lizards, however, both drakes and (I think - will have to visit the menagerie when I get home to confirm) dune lizards have their legs extending straight down from the shoulder in the dinosaur fashion, rather than out and then down at the knees as in the typical lizard sprawl. Glint and her hatchling (and, from what we've seen so far, the Elder Dragons) have a similar body design, with wings rather than the high neck frill. A bigger exception is the Sand Drake, which, as the trivia in the wiki says, is shaped more like an Ankylosaur.

Another way of looking at it, however, is that this bulkier, armoured body plan may represent a link between other drakes and the Turtle Dragon of Cantha - although which is the earlier branch is uncertain (it is worth noting that the Turtle Dragons have a more primitive sprawled leg structure, although this may be an evolutionary compromise to accomodate the shell). On the subject of Cantha, we also find the wyvern-like Saltsprays, which seem at first glance to be quite different to the other drakoid body plans - however, as snakes are related to lizards, this serpentine form may have developed in a similar manner. Beyond initial appearances, in fact, the Saltsprays may actually be more closely related to Tyrian drakes than Glint and her ilk, since they have the same number of limbs - unless the Tyrian drakes are degenerate descendants of the six-limbed body plan that shed their wings. In this case, it's possible that the ancestors of the Saltsprays may have regrown wings from their remaining limbs - or, alternatively, that they come from a different branch of the dragon family entirely, possibly having atrophied their forelimbs away in a similar manner to large therapods.

Finally, we come to the Elonian drakes, which are different to the Tyrian variety in two important ways: First, they are (exclusively) warriors while the majority of other drakes and dragons are elementalists, and secondly the appear more crocodilian than lizardlike. This could indicate that they are a more primitive form of drake (crocodiles being an early branch of the archosaurs on Earth, a group which also includes dinosaurs and pterosaurs, which are probably the closest match to drakes and dragons). Alternatively, it is possible that this is an example of convergent evolution - the Elonian drakes having developed crocodile-like jaws for living in water - but this begs the question of why arid Elona isn't also home to drakes like the Sand Drakes and the Fire Island drakes less adapted to living in water.

TedTheShred said:

I would like to disagree. I think the split would have occurred not long after the Raptor. The loss of 'hands' in the average bird indicates a split earlier on. The likelihood is higher that the Tengu descended from a Raptor-like creature with 'hands' than from a bird-like creature that had previously shed 'hands' and redeveloped them.

Wait, you mean you weren't referring to birds of prey with the term "raptor"?

[TedTheShred]

Rivenheart said:

Another point to remember is that not all species may have evolved on the same planet. The Forgotten were brought to Tyria after all.

Never forget the possibility of the unreliable narrator. The 'True Gods' are only the Gods of Humanity. The Titans were once the Gods of the Charr, and the Mursaat once the Gods of Kryta. One could easily speculate that given enough time for the Old Gods to fade from memory, the Mursaat would've been credited with the birth of the Krytans. The battles of Dhuum, Menzies, and Abbadon in conjunction with Kormir's passage to Godliness reveals the possibility that the 'True Gods' may not have always held that office.

Imagine the situation:
"The serpents were the protectors of the land, the keepers of knowledge, the teachers of all things, and during their time the world was in balance." - Excerpt from The History of Tyria, Volume 1 Thadeus Lamount, Historian

Truly! Such creatures must be the shepherds of the Gods! And so it was written, and so it was fact.

Quote

Are we ruling out the possibility of the races being created by a god? I assume so.

Just to clear things up: Is the purpose to inquire the origins of the races by natural selection and/or evolution? I'm kind of lost.

First, no I am not ruling out the possibility of the races bing created by a God. Riders have a place to themselves in the Mind Map I have put together because the species was created in madness by a Human. If we accept the creation of a species by way of a Human, we must also accept the creation of a species by way of the Gods, whichever Gods they may be.

The purpose is to determine the genetic map of Tyria. Which species evolved through the process of evolution by natural selection, and which were placed there? Which species are related? (ie. Is there a genetic link between Seige Turtles and the Kappa?)

Quote

Wait, you mean you weren't referring to birds of prey with the term "raptor"?

By Raptor, I was referring to the Dinosaur.

Quote

Personally, one thing I'd find curious here is the dragon/drake family

We are very much in agreement here. I've been struggling with the classification of Drakes.

[Konig Des Todes]

TedTheShred said:

Never forget the possibility of the unreliable narrator. The 'True Gods' are only the Gods of Humanity.

I don't think this is a case of unreliability - as we see Forgotten serving the gods in the Realm of Torment, acting as wardens to Abaddon and his demonic minions. Oh, and the True Gods are not only the gods of humanity. We see many dwarves worshiping Dwayna and mentioning or worshiping Grenth. For dwarves, it seems that there are two common faiths - the Great Dwarf, or Dwayna.

[Sha Noran]

The dinosaur mobs are very odd to me, because I have no idea how such a creature could possibly support its diet given the surrounding areas that we have access to. I suppose this is a game mechanic dispute, since we obviously don't see full food chains for anything really... however isn't it basically unfathomable for dinosaurs to end up coexisting on a planet with sentient races that have become the uppermost predators of the planet's ecosystem?

[Gregor Lightbringer]

Sha Noran said:

The dinosaur mobs are very odd to me, because I have no idea how such a creature could possibly support its diet given the surrounding areas that we have access to. I suppose this is a game mechanic dispute, since we obviously don't see full food chains for anything really... however isn't it basically unfathomable for dinosaurs to end up coexisting on a planet with sentient races that have become the uppermost predators of the planet's ecosystem?

Correct. We only see "the dangers". Not the food chain.........hmmm come to think of it, WE would be the lower end on the food chain compared to the "dinosuars" there. :D

[draxynnic]

Sha Noran said:

The dinosaur mobs are very odd to me, because I have no idea how such a creature could possibly support its diet given the surrounding areas that we have access to. I suppose this is a game mechanic dispute, since we obviously don't see full food chains for anything really... however isn't it basically unfathomable for dinosaurs to end up coexisting on a planet with sentient races that have become the uppermost predators of the planet's ecosystem?

No more than any other large predator. You can probably expect they'll be chased off from 'civilised' areas, but that's pretty much what we see - the Asura are relative newcomers to the Tarnished Coast, after all.

[TedTheShred]

For those interested, updated the original post with a link to the Mind Map I've been sporadically working on. I'll also link to it here:

Taxonomy of Tyria

The password to view and edit is: GuildWars2

[Operative 14]

Very, very nice work. :D

[nilzardo]

Konig Des Todes said:

These two, I think, are as similar to each other as the two kinds of Centaurs (Elonian and Tyrian). Similar origin - possibly evolving from snakes from somewhere else, then the Naga evolving from the Forgotten. Though they would be as different as an aquatic snake from a snake which can survive in the desert (such as a rattlesnake).

If I'm not mistaken, the Forgotten were put on Tyria by the gods to act as shepherds to the other creatures and didn't evolve from anything. And about the Naga: "Despite a similar appearance to The Forgotten of the Crystal Desert, they are unrelated species." That's what the wiki says at least. This all seems quite fuzzy since the gods and the mists are two very important factors that could have messed with the natural ways.

[Konig Des Todes]

I thought it said the Naga are not the Forgotten (from an in-game context, the Forgotten hasn't been seen by the common person for hundreds of years, at least those that lived to tell the tale of the Forgotton). And yes, the Forgotten were, supposedly, brought by the gods.

[Gmr Leon]

I knew there was something I meant to make a comment on here..

The quote from the Manuscripts is:

Factions Manuscripts said:

Tyrian visitors claim that the serpentine Naga resemble the Forgotten of the northern continent, but the two species are unrelated.

[draxynnic]

Interesting and oh-so-obvious-in-hindsight observation there about the Charr - one would expect to see more monstrous felines around, but we don't (unless you could the Temple Guardians/Nian, but they seem fairly clearly supernatural as well as too far away to really be related to the Charr). I wonder if that's something that will be put into GW2?

nilzardo said:

If I'm not mistaken, the Forgotten were put on Tyria by the gods to act as shepherds to the other creatures and didn't evolve from anything.

Not from anything on Tyria, anyway. :p

[Mustache Mayhem]

I think there's more yeti than you think

[Gmr Leon]

Black Yeti? :surprised:

[SweetZoid]

Racist yeti? haha xD

[Gmr Leon]

Racist is understandable though, with the Tengu-Yeti tensions.

[Konig Des Todes]

Actually Leon, I think Mustache Mayhem was just trolling. >_>

[Huginn]

^ Nah, he was just yetiing :p