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#31 Shayne Hawke

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:55 AM

Been looking forward to this ever since HoN completely dropped the ball on their business model a few days ago.

#32 fenix

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:01 AM

Valve just took a huge dump on everyone else at Gamescom. gg.

#33 Ritter

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:00 PM

Shayne Hawke said:

Been looking forward to this ever since HoN completely dropped the ball on their business model a few days ago.

They kinda had to do that to survive DOTA2.

#34 FiveDigits

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:21 PM

DOTA2 is a much greater threat to HoN than to LoL. Seeing how both HoN and DOTA2 will be very close to the original DotA mechanics-wise.

LoL has established a big fan base (4 million) and has its foot firmly in the eSports scene. They are going to be fine. HoN though probably won't survive because it has nothing unique to offer.

#35 Lodgeinator

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 01:00 PM

FiveDigits said:

DOTA2 is a much greater threat to HoN than to LoL. Seeing how both HoN and DOTA2 will be very close to the original DotA mechanics-wise.

LoL has established a big fan base (4 million) and has its foot firmly in the eSports scene. They are going to be fine. HoN though probably won't survive because it has nothing unique to offer.

Hon is more intrenched into esports with it coming to mlg and ipl.
I do not count LoL as an esport due to the lower skill ceiling compared to dota/hon, and also that the games lacks replays and a spectator mode.

#36 NeHoMaR

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 01:49 PM

One million dollars? Jesus!

BTW, DOTA2 will be Free to Play? no?

#37 FiveDigits

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 02:35 PM

Lodgeinator said:

Hon is more intrenched into esports with it coming to mlg and ipl.
I do not count LoL as an esport due to the lower skill ceiling compared to dota/hon, and also that the games lacks replays and a spectator mode.

Yeah, (N)ESL and WCG are nothing. Just like 20.000 people concurrently  watching the Dreamhack (a $100.000 event) LoL finals  stream ...  (or several thousand people watching LoL streams on onw3d 24/7) :zzz:

Also: http://www.leaguereplays.com/

The spectator mode is currently limited to official tournaments because it is still in development. Riot got a little surprised by LoL's success in the competetive scene and has some catching up to do concerning the required eSports tools for their game.

#38 Sock Puppet

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:56 PM

NeHoMaR said:

One million dollars? Jesus!

BTW, DOTA2 will be Free to Play? no?

No, thank god.

----------

FiveDigits said:

Yeah, (N)ESL and WCG are nothing. Just like 20.000 people concurrently  watching the Dreamhack (a $100.000 event) LoL finals  stream ...  (or several thousand people watching LoL streams on onw3d 24/7) :zzz:

Also: http://www.leaguereplays.com/

The spectator mode is currently limited to official tournaments because it is still in development. Riot got a little surprised by LoL's success in the competetive scene and has some catching up to do concerning the required eSports tools for their game.

Imo LoL requires a LOT LESS skill compared to HoN and DOTA.
GW2 = meh.

#39 Lodgeinator

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:05 PM

Riot are also a sponcer of WCG so there is no surprise that their game is invited  to that event.

Also I heard alot of things about the viewing numbers for LoL being bogus as the stream for dreamhack was imbedded into the game client so all players were counted as viewers.

#40 FiveDigits

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:46 PM

Lodgeinator said:

Riot are also a sponcer of WCG so there is no surprise that their game is invited  to that event.

Also I heard alot of things about the viewing numbers for LoL being bogus as the stream for dreamhack was imbedded into the game client so all players were counted as viewers.

Just look at the onw3d link I posted. There are literally thousands of people watching LoL streams on that site alone on any time of any day. So why should Riot have to fake viewer numbers for a major event? The stream was embedded into their main page - not the client. So technically, yes, you were a viewer if u had the LoL official site start page open while the event was running. No more, no less.

I won't get into the "less skill required" debate. LoL has a low skill floor. It is very accessible for new players. That is a trademark of successful multiplayer games. It says nothing about the skill ceiling.

The real deciding factor for a successful eSport is an active community and the entertainment value of watching the games. LoL has both.

#41 Kurko

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:56 PM

Anyone know the record prize pool for broodwars?

#42 Lemming

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:22 PM

Prizes for Starleagues is somewhere in the vicinity of 40k USD.

However, Korean professional BW players also have salaries. Top tier players such as Flash and Jaedong earn over $200000 annually.

As for LoL, it's definitely a popular game. Unfortunately, it also feels like a lot of the simplifications that make the skill floor lower and thereby more accessible to new players also make it less exciting to watch.

Edited by Lemming, 03 August 2011 - 07:29 PM.


#43 Kurko

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:26 PM

So this would be the highest prize money won ever in the history?

#44 Zeful

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:25 PM

Lemming said:

As for LoL, it's definitely a popular game. Unfortunately, it also feels like a lot of the simplifications that make the skill floor lower and thereby more accessible to new players also make it less exciting to watch.

HoN isn't much better. The game is just as boring to watch casually as LoL is, despite the mechanical differences in the game. Though I found HoN far more tedious to watch because it's hard to tell what exactly is going on without playing it, something LoL doesn't have a problem with due to their graphical aesthetic.

#45 Lodgeinator

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:52 PM

Quote

Though I found HoN far more tedious to watch because it's hard to tell what exactly is going on without playing it, something LoL doesn't have a problem with due to their graphical aesthetic.

This is just wrong, I for one cannot tell what is happening at all in LoL.

#46 Zeful

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:37 PM

Lodgeinator said:

This is just wrong, I for one cannot tell what is happening at all in LoL.

Team minions are colored as well as having their health bars colored. The champion health bars are large and prominent, as well as color coded. Everything has a distinct Silhouette. HoN only has the last of these things.

This is a screen shot of a HoN game from Youtube. What's going on in this still?

This is a screen shot of a LoL game, again from Youtube. What's going on in this still?

Looking at both, the LoL shot does appear to be visually cleaner. Not because of animations or anything like that, but instead because at a glance it's not that hard to tell who's on what side. In the HoN shot? I wouldn't be able to tell you which team everything's on, or that Parasite is coming in for a gank without previously knowing it.

EDIT:Hm, for some reason the HoN screenshot got changed in the upload, because it's not that blurry on my PC. Wonder what happened.

#47 Mr. Mango

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:38 PM

Lemming said:

Prizes for Starleagues is somewhere in the vicinity of 40k USD.

However, Korean professional BW players also have salaries. Top tier players such as Flash and Jaedong earn over $200000 annually.

As for LoL, it's definitely a popular game. Unfortunately, it also feels like a lot of the simplifications that make the skill floor lower and thereby more accessible to new players also make it less exciting to watch.
People still watch/play SC:BW? <_<

Also I hard from a friend of mine DotA 2 would be free. If not I'd buy it anyway.

#48 Lodgeinator

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 12:56 AM

Zeful said:

Snip

When you have a screenshot of a low resoultion youtube video you miss out on details.

Also you compared a non action scene to an action scene.

Edited by Lodgeinator, 04 August 2011 - 12:58 AM.


#49 Zeful

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 01:33 AM

Lodgeinator said:

When you have a screenshot of a low resoultion youtube video you miss out on details.

Also you compared a non action scene to an action scene.

I set both videos to the highest quality available (720p) took the screenshot and cropped them to even out the context of the images. As for the content, action scenes are a larger reason why the aesthetic direction should be clear, more stuff going on means more need for everything to be visible at all times. Anything less is a failure on the part of the company that put it out.

Though, thank you for proving my point: A game with good aesthetic direction will not have instances where resolution will hinder the ability for the player to understand the environment. That there is detail to miss on a lower resolution image is a failing of HoN.

The HoN image is from the Parasite spotlight, and the first time I saw it I couldn't identify heroes in that shot until the guy getting hit on started running away. First time I saw LoL in comparison, I was able to identify each hero on screen instantly because there was so many clearly obvious methods to provide that identification.

Quite frankly HoN's aesthetic design sucks, badly. It runs counter to the requirements of the genre. There should never be a situation where you are unclear of who or what is on your screen, regardless of skill or knowledge.

#50 Lodgeinator

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 01:45 AM

You say you cannot tell what team everything is on (which also mean the creeps). That means you dont have the basic game knowledge for this game.

If you showed someone with no knowledge of SC2 an in game screen shot they would have no chance to telling the different units apart.

Also please use similar in game screenshots, comparing a non action scene to an action scene and then saying the non action screen game is better because you can tell what is going on is bs.

Quote

There should never be a situation where you are unclear of who or what is on your screen, regardless of skill or knowledge.

You are wrong here, games should take a combination of skill and knowledge. The knowledge in HoN and LoL is knowing what all the heroes can do.

If I was the play LoL then I would not have any knowledge on what is happening on screen in fights, does that mean that LoL's aesthetic design sucks.

#51 Eragon Zarroc

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:14 AM

lol, 6 teams chinese.  none U.S. :(  bleh.

#52 Malchior Devenholm

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:18 AM

Quote

There should never be a situation where you are unclear of who or what is on your screen, regardless of skill or knowledge.

Whoever said this is absolutely right, in relation to success as an e-sport.  Though, it's not about your screen, more so it is about what a person who's never seen the game sees.  You have to be able to present the most basic aspects of the game/sport in such a way that the casual observer understands the principles of victory and how to achieve it.  The tactics to achieve said victory can be learned through observing more matches.

#53 Lemming

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:34 AM

Mr. Mango said:

People still watch/play SC:BW? <_<

This photo was from just two years ago. This year's Proleague finals is going to be held at a smaller venue in Shanghai, but the allotted total of ~1000 tickets sold out within minutes.

The scene's not in the best of shape atm (two teams folded, one of the two television channels broadcasting BW is debating changing the channel's programming to focus more on music), but it's still by far the biggest esport in Korea.

Also, somehow, I feel like the HoN v LoL debate is out of place.

#54 Malchior Devenholm

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:18 AM

Lemming said:


Also, somehow, I feel like the HoN v LoL debate is out of place.

You know it comes up everywhere either game is mentioned. :D

Each has its strengths and weaknesses.  Someone who doesn't acknowledge that and tries to proclaim either game as superior in every way is ignorant.

#55 NeHoMaR

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:42 AM

Sock Puppet said:

No, thank god.
How you know is not free to play? Where did you read it?

Actually, I was thinking the reason Heroes of Newerth is now free to play is because DOTA2 will be too.

#56 Yriel Fagoren

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 11:46 AM

NeHoMaR said:

How you know is not free to play? Where did you read it?

Actually, I was thinking the reason Heroes of Newerth is now free to play is because DOTA2 will be too.

No, the main reason it's because they need to survive.

I hope DotA 2 will not be F2P, cause a competitive game CAN'T locked all the heroes and force you to farm/buy them in order to use them.

If a game do that, it's not a competitive game at all ...

Edited by Yriel Fagoren, 04 August 2011 - 11:49 AM.


#57 Arduin

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 11:48 AM

^ How so? LoL seems to do pretty good in that department.

#58 BDSMGirl

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 02:07 PM

Malchior Devenholm said:

You know it comes up everywhere either game is mentioned. :D

Each has its strengths and weaknesses.  Someone who doesn't acknowledge that and tries to proclaim either game as superior in every way is ignorant.

It's sort of like the squabbles you get between brother and sister, with dota being the father of both, chuckling in the background about the darned things these kids say.

#59 NeHoMaR

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 07:19 PM

Yriel Fagoren said:

No, the main reason it's because they need to survive.

I hope DotA 2 will not be F2P, cause a competitive game CAN'T locked all the heroes and force you to farm/buy them in order to use them.

If a game do that, it's not a competitive game at all ...
You mean LoL and HoN are NOT competitives?

Actually, I bet DOTA2 will be free to play, with locked heroes EXACTLY as you don't want.

#60 Yriel Fagoren

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 07:23 PM

A game that forced you to farm in order to get all the heroes/spells etc... isn't competitive at all.

Cause you don't have the same cards that the others, It's unfair.

Arenanet gets it, and that's why I follow GW2 so closely ...

Edited by Yriel Fagoren, 04 August 2011 - 07:26 PM.





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