[Konig Des Todes]

Updated with new info and more pictures. Most added information can be found throughout the thread.

In an interview with Ree (here), she says that Ascalon is now ruled by three charr legions - Blood, Ash, and Iron.

Ree said:

Ascalon thrives under its charr masters, and the three Legions--Ash, Iron and Blood--march inexorably onward toward their goal of conquest.

Where is the Gold (formerly Flame) Legion?

Well, various concept arts make me think, did they go back to their old ways and tried to worship Primordus? And in effect, became corrupted like Svanir in Eye of the North did? Also, Regina has made a note on the Flame Legion in GW2:

Regina said:

What or who is that creature in the final shot of the video? Let's just say that while most of the charr have rejected their old gods, the shamans, who once worshipped those gods, have not just gone away peacefully...

Concept Art:


This is just one where it is easily showing a fiery charr from the trailer. There is another that might be a corrupted charr as well, but too little of the body is shown to tell.

Then there is the ending of the GW2 trailer, where we see a charr-like creature get turned into a huge destroyer-like creature.

Comparison shots

Charr before Transformation:

Transformed Charr:

Destroyer of Flesh:


Observation of the Untransformed Charr

We can see four obvious things about this.

• It almost mimics the concept art. In how it does this is the second and third things about the Charr...
  
• The forearms have a vein-like fiery corruption of some sort on them
  
• The teeth/mouth area is also fiery
  
• The difference is the blindfold - the concept has it, the in-game model doesn't. Instead, the in-game model has glowing eyes, and in fact what appears to be a third eye on its forehead.

Observation on the Transformed Charr

• The first obvious thing to note is that it was increased in size. This is much different from the known "Drakkar" corruption to Svanir, and what seems to be centaur concept art corrupted by "Drakkar" in the same manner. This goes against the theory.
  
• The second thing to note is how similar the new form is to the Destroyer of Flesh. Specifically, the chest of the Charr to the belly of the Destroyer of Flesh. They both have the same "magma" look to it. There is also the black "obsidian" portions which are also very similar.
  
• The basic "charr shape" is kept the same.

Possibilities of the differences between "Drakkar's" corruptions and Primordus' corruption

I see two possible reasons why there is a difference between the two different corruptions.

• Primordus has more power than "Drakkar," so when he corrupts something, that something can be given more power - so instead of getting a "new coating" like the ice on the Nornbear, the corruptee would be completely transformed. It is possible that the "smaller dosage" of corruption results in the untransformed Charr - fiery veins along the body, glowing eyes and a glowing mouth.
  
• OR! This Charr was a "special case" and "Drakkar" can indeed fully transform a being. This Charr could have been chosen to be a general of Primordus, instead of a typical foot soldier (like the Centaur Concept may be) or a bystander corruption (like Svanir).

Previous Counter-Points

• The distance between Primordus and the Charr is too great and too blocked by the new generation of Destroyers.
  
• The Flame Legion, known for magic, may have found a way to transform themselves.
  
• Could be a Charr Effigy

Counter-Counter-Points

• The new generation of Destroyers may work differently than the past and if the Flame Legion show their allegiance, Primordus may view some as worthy twisting fodder. And if not, the rest as food.
  
• There is no evidence of Charr ever having the ability of transformation, though a lot could change in 250 years. However, the Charr have been advancing in technology more than in magic - so the possibility of this happening is slim.
  
• Charr Effigies were previously made of wood and fire. Now, they are most likely to be more like (one of) the concept art and be made of metal and fire.

So, will some of the Flame Legion become corrupted by Primordus in GW2?

Edited by Konig Des Todes, 20 October 2011 - 04:05 AM.

[Unendingfear]

I thought that the gold legion almost became slaves to the others.

[Konig Des Todes]

They were said to be at the bottom of the Charr (not specifically slaves), only kept for their magic. However, those concept art pieces and the trailer, makes me think some go back to their old ways.

[Ravious]

Yeah the Charr article in that magazine pretty well said that the Gold Legion would never rule again.... or even get a place of power. They are lucky to be kept alive.

[Thalador]

Possibly, yes. In the Movement of the World is stated, that the Shaman caste "are still considered useful to the war effort, they are also viewed as dangerous and subversive, and are almost universally scorned."
The Legion itself has retreated to their capital city near Hrangmer. I'm not sure if they've become corrupted. And I still view the Charr at the end as a Shaman, who's becoming something similar to a Charr Effigy. (In WoW, the Shamans can become various things, so perhaps the Charr Shamans are capable to do the same.)

[Konig Des Todes]

Thalador Doomspeaker said:

And I still view the Charr at the end as a Shaman, who's becoming something similar to a Charr Effigy. (In WoW, the Shamans can become various things, so perhaps the Charr Shamans are capable to do the same.)

This is not WoW. We see what the Charr Effigies in GW1 are, they are the same as golems - enchanted objects. And the creature at the end turns into a more Destroyer-like creature, so I dunno if it's exactly willingly. Especially as the charr-like creature is looking around when the flame goes up.

[Arghore]

Hmm like i said in other threads, i perceived the creature to turn into something more like a dragon, more specific something that looks like the '2' dragon from the logo, rather then a destroyer like creature ...

[Thalador]

Those little fireballs don't enter the Charr's body. I'm 80% sure that he's transforming. The only theory I would accept, that Primordus has corrupted it.
It's definitely not WoW, but there are some similar things between the two games. I don't see why do you throw away the Shaman transforming theory.
I know that Effigies are enchanted objects. The Shamans worshiped the Titans and the Destroyers (both is attributed to fire in some way), so the Shamans could become some kind of burning beast (for a while), a technique, they mastered in that 250 years.

[Konig Des Todes]

Thalador Doomspeaker said:

The only theory I would accept, that Primordus has corrupted it.

That is what I was saying, technically...

Thalador Doomspeaker said:

I don't see why do you throw away the Shaman transforming theory.

Because the word Shaman is a title, not a profession, of those who are a part of the Shaman Caste - a former form of government of the Charr which consisted of the leaders of the four legions (with the Flame Legion being above the other three).

Thalador Doomspeaker said:

The Shamans worshiped the Titans and the Destroyers (both is attributed to fire in some way), so the Shamans could become some kind of burning beast (for a while), a technique, they mastered in that 250 years.

While possible, I'll have to list this as a "I have to see it to believe it" kind of thing. The only races known to have transforming abilities would be the Krait and Norn.

[Thalador]

Okay, I want to see it too. I just wanted to know, why did you throw away a possibility, until we know more. I hope we get more and more infos soon.

[Ecro]

ima just say that charr became corrupted like Svanir in Eye of the North did ... we might have to kill it? idk that trailer gave more questions then answers & thats what they wanted ... to get us hooked so we buy and play to figure it out ha ha

[Gmr Leon]

Argh. Konig, this is why we should try to be quiet and discuss amongst ourselves our speculations until further information arises, rather than putting it out here for everyone to see. Still, interesting idea, wondered the same thing, but also kind of wondered what Thalador did. I brought someone in who knows nothing major of GW to watch it with me, and he held the view that it was willingly done. So, there's an unbiased, ignorant of the lore, opinion.

[Konig Des Todes]

Gmr Leon said:

Argh. Konig, this is why we should try to be quiet and discuss amongst ourselves our speculations until further information arises

Yeah, I got ahead of myself. :(

[garethporlest22]

Maybe the Charr destroyed them? Probably not, I would guess the most likely thing is, they went back to Primordus and they will be one of the various enemies we face. While that latter picture looks nothing like a Charr, the first picture does. As for the ending, what that person transformed into was a bigger version of a Charr, look at the face near the end when it gets really big, that's not destroyer like.

I'll have to take that back, after reading a bit more yeah that last picture does seem to be a charr, I didn't see the bandage at first. Your theory is probably right Konig.

Edited by garethporlest22, 21 August 2009 - 12:48 AM.

[Hell Darkknight]

Some of you are assuming that the Charr in the last scene got corrupted by Primordus beacuse of the enviroment around (lava and all). It somewhat resembles at surrounding in A time for heroes mission. But there's that Charr city in video wich is mostly a forging city with lots of steel and fire and all. Also don't forget Cathedral of Flame and it's enviroment.
I think it's just Charr shapeshifting form. Charr effigy is already seen in gw1 nothing new. As said before it could be an ability learned from Titans/Destroyers. Most likely from Titans, cause we have all seen that Charrs can't control destroyers at all. But it doesnt have to be connected with titans/ destroyers at all. I read somewhere at lore that Charrs were always admiring fire and have great respect for it long before the titans/searing. So they could be manipulating with fire forms or similar stuff long time ago. They started worshiping titans because they were impressed with those burning creatures.

[Sir Franz]

Quote

In an interview with Ree (here), she says that Ascalon is now ruled by three charr legions - Blood, Ash, and Iron.

Where is the Gold (formerly Flame) Legion?

The three legions may have there capitals in Ascalon territory and therefor rule there and the gold legion having there capital at Hrangmer which is not in the former lands of Ascalon. The Gold legion could in fact be exiled(or unwelcome) from there because of there outcast status.

[Konig Des Todes]

I'm assuming the Charr at the end is being corrupted by Primordus because of its new shape. It is like a Charr-shaped Destroyer. As for the Charr who admired fire, I think that would just be the Flame Legion, if they actually did (I don't recall this anywhere).

And according to the Ecology of the Charr, the Charr started worshiping the Titans because the Titans granted the Burnt Warband magic. Though that may be Charr biased-ness not willing to have the True Gods being the ones who gave the Charr magic.

[Hell Darkknight]

Konig Des Todes said:

I'm assuming the Charr at the end is being corrupted by Primordus because of its new shape. It is like a Charr-shaped Destroyer. As for the Charr who admired fire, I think that would just be the Flame Legion, if they actually did (I don't recall this anywhere).

And according to the Ecology of the Charr, the Charr started worshiping the Titans because the Titans granted the Burnt Warband magic. Though that may be Charr biased-ness not willing to have the True Gods being the ones who gave the Charr magic.

Ok so there's a new corrupted effigy charr shape, but whats immportant is that Charr can do that (the uncorrupted shapeshift). We see that in mission (Warband rescue i think). So we might be seeing that as ability in gw2 like norn shapeshifting form. We'll it least i'm hoping. That ability is not destroyer related nor its a gift from them (Charrs/shamans are holding them locked and worshiping lol)

[Whisper]

Ho ho seams your onto something Konig thoug this may also be a result of the new industrial revolution the charr has gone throug ? Steampunk Cyborgs anyone?
oh well the first one looks like something that they could have brougth upon themselves..... the last one however...... Deffinently looks corrupted in some sort of way...

Edited by Whisper, 21 August 2009 - 10:43 PM.

[Gmr Leon]

You're missing the point. We've yet to see a Charr transform into anything. What we witness in Eye of the North is the activation of enchanted effigies of the Charr.

[Konig Des Todes]

But in Eye of the North, they are just animating wood and fire. Far from "the uncorrupted shapeshift."

The image at the end, it looks pure destroyer:




GW1 Charr Effigy:


GW1 Destroyer:


Side by side comparison:


The "material" which makes the end creature and a destroyer looks the same.

[Free Runner]

When i first saw that part i instantly throught of it being corrupted by Primordus. However people told me it was no doubt just some skill or new way to create a Charr Effigy. That it was self inflicted.

Now first thought, why would Anet show us that part? in the past when they did trailers, the part that came after the final title screen would usually be an important part. And it doesnt look like normal gameplay it looks like a cinematic. Now onto the actual Charr - his eyes are orange, almost like they are on fire and he has red markings appearing slowly on his chest. His gauntlets are at first are not activated however they then immediatly activate. And the transformation - it doesnt happen. Look closely at it and you will see its transparant. The Charr is still in the flames.

The slowly appearing magma on the rock plus the flames flying around him looks alot like hes been caught in something. I'm nto really sure what to make of it.

[Whisper]

Well if primodus can corrupt stone doing the same to living beings should not be a problem. I doubt what was being done to the charr in the video was of his own free will perhabs he was enslaved by primodus? It's deffinently not Charr magic.

[Konig Des Todes]

It could still be the Charr's own will if it was a Gold Legion - Shaman Caste believer. The whole "fiery beings are our gods" thing.

[Whisper]

Konig Des Todes said:

It could still be the Charr's own will if it was a Gold Legion - Shaman Caste believer. The whole "fiery beings are our gods" thing.

But wasen't the shaman caste brougth to their knees and ultimately dissolved?
But yea the charr seams to clinge to everything that has to do with fire...

[Konig Des Todes]

I don't know about dissolved, but they lost their control over others and are the lowest of the low in Charr. And not all Charr cling onto everything that has to do with fire.

[Whisper]

Konig Des Todes said:

I don't know about dissolved, but they lost their control over others and are the lowest of the low in Charr. And not all Charr cling onto everything that has to do with fire.

^^ yet one must admit it has been their thing even now in guild wars 2 they are associated with it (Their city is close to being litteraly on fire, and the tourch sculpture/landmark may also suggest, that fire is still important to them in some way). So you are suggesting they might seek to strike back with the help of primodus?

Edited by Whisper, 22 August 2009 - 01:03 AM.

[Hell Darkknight]

Charr effigy in gw1 is made of wood and fire? :O
I though it was a graphical issue like the one with vanguard armor was.

[Konig Des Todes]

I'm suggesting they become corrupted by Primordus. Not so much strike back with Primordus' help.

And I'm unsure if "fire is still their thing" based on the areas we saw. Sure it is very fiery and burnt, but so were many things in the industrial age, and it seems that is where the Charr are. A rather hostile industrial age.

[Whisper]

Konig Des Todes said:

I'm suggesting they become corrupted by Primordus. Not so much strike back with Primordus' help.

And I'm unsure if "fire is still their thing" based on the areas we saw. Sure it is very fiery and burnt, but so were many things in the industrial age, and it seems that is where the Charr are. A rather hostile industrial age.

I get the feeling that they identify themselves with the fire after all fire is often used to symbolise the Charrs Characteristics : fierce, opportunistic, proud and temperamental. They are warriors balthazar god of War is also the god of fire ^^. Realy i think thats what it's all about seeing themselves in the fire.

Heh true the industrial age of the charr is indeed hostile...However have you ever seen a pacefistic Charr?