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New Future Professions: which niches are left?


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#1 Tamora

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 01:55 AM

meanwhile we know the 8 professions for the initial release and got an idea on how they work. those professions already offer a wide range of mechanics and playstyles. some professions already overlap with each other, so there isn't really much room for new professions. that's why i'm wondering, if they add new profession in the future, what those professions (playstyle, flavours and mechanics) could be like. this thread is not really supposed to explain one profession in detail, but to gather ideas for professions. maybe we can assemble interesting concept from the various ideas. :)

i'm gonna try to put some of the detailed ideas in this thread here and from primordus visions into categories.

heavy armor


medium armor


light armor


armor not specified


profession on guildwarswiki

--------------------------

please yell, if u know another detailed concept for a new profession or if i put any of these in a wrong category. :)

Edited by Tamora, 05 July 2012 - 07:00 PM.


#2 Symbiont

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 02:02 AM

i like the thread.
i believe in a ranged "tank"

i'm currently having idea's for the Ritualist changing into an Overlord.
The Overlord will command spirits but wear heavy armor, unlike the Ritualist who only wear light armor.
The spirits that are commanded by the Overlord where once living Ritualists.

Lore - How Ritualist increased their spiritual powers and become Overlords.
(bear with me, this writing comes from someone who lacks lore interest...)
Spoiler

Edited by Symbiont, 18 December 2011 - 02:20 AM.


#3 Tamora

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 02:21 AM

Symbiont said:

Spoiler

yeah, ritualist was my favorite profession in gw as well. what i liked about it is, that it's ranged, so i get a nice overview of what's happening in the battle, and it's a passive or indirect damage dealer. sometimes it's just relaxing to summon spirits, take care of them and let them do the work. i don't think there is such a passive/indirect profession in gw2 yet. since they aren't mobile, u still have a bit more control over them then on necro minions.

Rudaz said:

Spoiler

well, assuming that they'll add more professions ofc. ;)

-----------------
edit (another one):

symbiosis profession
it's another pet profession (called summoner, demologist or sth like that). what sets it apart from the other profession with pets is, that the player controls the pet directly and the actions of the pet influence the skills of the players char. weapon skill 1 makes the pet charge to the target, skill 2 makes the pet use a damage attack, skill 3 a control attack (stun, freeze etc.), skill 4 a support skill (e.g. bleeding) and skill 5 makes the pet run to the players char. the char also uses skill by using the weapon skills (bow, gun, shuriken or sth like that). the player has to decide which weapon skill he's using based on what he benefits most of atm. e.g. he might want to let the pet apply the bleeding condition first and the use the bow attack, which deals extra damage when the target is bleeding or he stuns the for with the pet and use the gun attack which weakens stunned foes, so they deal less damage. i think this could be a challenging, but interesting profession. maybe for the martial art guy? :)

Edited by Tamora, 18 December 2011 - 02:39 AM.


#4 Symbiont

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 02:28 AM

i don't want to draw more *negative* attention to my thread which is an idea on a new Ritualist mechanic (i was argueing with someone because my idea was too little and vague for his taste)
but i will gladly PM the link to you, so you can let me know what you think of it.
B/c just like you, i like the concept of the Rit commanding chained spirits.

Edited by Symbiont, 18 December 2011 - 02:30 AM.


#5 konshie

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 02:56 AM

i was kind of hoping to see a pure summoner class. the summoner pets would have to look really unique and different to stand out among the other "pets".  (like having all skills that relate to the summon in some way and looking larger).  it would be cool to have the summon be able to do multiple roles like tank, heal, give buffs, control.   i like the idea of the player being more passive, and the summons playing a more active role.

i don't consider a ranger to be a summoner since the pet is just an minor extension of the character.  necros do have their minions, but they don't have much control over the individual actions of the minions.

#6 Wraithmare

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:30 AM

Hmm, your list of "unused archetypes" got me thinking. A lot of folks here (including myself) are a fan of the Ritualist. But I'm thinking if the ritualist were to return in any form it'd have to be changed quite a bit since thematically it was already close to the necromancer and mechanically a lot of what the rit did has been taken over by the engineer.

What if the rit evolved into a light or possibly medium armor class following the "martial artist" theme? It'd be sort of a "spirit monk" focusing spirit energies into attacks and different effects. It certainly wouldn't play like the old rit but an evolution and possibly name change is the only way I can see the ritualist returning.

Also my personal take but I don't think a shapeshifter profession would be able to be unique enough no matter what it did considering how many other professions and races have transformation mechanics of all shapes and sizes.

#7 Nightblaze1

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:36 AM

I've said this many times and will say it again. =) Arenanet need to make a druid or deamonologist like class in any future expansions. Druid would shapeshift into different beasts and have some sorts of summons. A deamonologist would shapeshit into different demons and have some sort of summons. =)

#8 Tall

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:47 AM

Nightblaze1 said:

I've said this many times and will say it again. =) Arenanet need to make a druid or deamonologist like class in any future expansions. Druid would shapeshift into different beasts and have some sorts of summons. A deamonologist would shapeshit into different demons and have some sort of summons. =)

The nature archetype is already done through the ranger profession. And seriously, lets actually get ideas that don't dominate other MMOs currently.


My beef is this: If you are gonna add something, make it completely different from what we already have. I don't want this thread turning into 'Addz paladin class so different from a guardian lol' like a lot of the others.

#9 FinalForm

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:59 AM

How about...

Puppeteer: Has a single puppet (or multiple puppets to switch out from) which holds the weapon chosen by the puppeteer. Can switch between multiple roles of Damage, Support, and Control determined by the weapon held, and the distance the Puppeteer puts between themselves and their puppet.

I came up with the idea in 2 minutes. Critique, call it stupid, be a fanboy over it. Whatever.

#10 deathblossom

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:06 AM

i would love a true summoner class... they have always been my favorite... it would be like ranger but magical instead of physical. Less agile and would have to rely on the pet,but would have many skills to have the summons attack and support them. their weapons skills would be one time summons, the spell summons a creature and it attacks or shoots a spell then leaves. and they would have one permanent pet at all times(like the ranger) but unlike the ranger the summon would be the summoners offensive not using symbiosis but instead directly controlling it though skills. I guess what i'm envisioning is more what i wanted the ranger to be... pet dependent... i mean its supposed to be the "pet class" but the mesmer has more control over its illusions than it has over its pets....

#11 DoomedFenrir

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:11 AM

deathblossom said:

i would love a true summoner class... they have always been my favorite... it would be like ranger but magical instead of physical. Less agile and would have to rely on the pet,but would have many skills to have the summons attack and support them. their weapons skills would be one time summons, the spell summons a creature and it attacks or shoots a spell then leaves. and they would have one permanent pet at all times(like the ranger) but unlike the ranger the summon would be the summoners offensive not using symbiosis but instead directly controlling it though skills. I guess what i'm envisioning is more what i wanted the ranger to be... pet dependent... i mean its supposed to be the "pet class" but the mesmer has more control over its illusions than it has over its pets....

...Who told you that?

#12 Cloudpiercer

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:43 AM

The way a ranged tank would work is to draw enemy fire and kite them, most classes already have the tools to do that. If you mean a heavy armor class that can attack from range, well we already have that as well. Ranged tank isn't really a niche its a role.

I can see there being room for a Martial Artist type character and maybe a Chronomancer. Shapeshifter might step on the toes of to many existing skills, I mean we have elites that change your form, Death Shroud, Attunements, Norn Racials, at least 1 Human Racial etc. Same for Summoner, theres a lot of classes that can already create pets to follow them around.

I rather have new weapon sets and races.

#13 kaldak

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:50 AM

The way I see it there are sort of 2 separate niches to every profession.  The first is theme.  You have your martial fighter, you have your mage, you have your rogue, etc.  Some are a bit less traditional, but every profession has a distinct theme.  There are a lot of other fantasy themes out there, and many of them could work in Tyria.

The second part is play style.  In theory every profession should feel quite distinct when you play it regardless of the theme.  Even when you're filling the same role as another profession, it should feel different.  This is not something every MMO does.  Often those differences are only superficial, but in GW2 they seem to run quite deep.  Part of this is that each profession has one or more unique mechanics.  I'm not sure there's really much room for additional play styles considering how flexible the exiting ones are.

If they choose to make more professions, they'll probably have to be ones that are distinct from the existing professions in both theme and play style.  If you can describe a new profession pretty accurately in a single sentence as "It's like the _____, except _____." then it's probably not distinct enough.

#14 Kaleban

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:20 AM

Here's a few off the top of my head:

Ritualist (NEW) - My take on an updated version of the Rit is this: with the advent of the Dragons and all heck breaking loose, the Canthan Ritualist Masters decided more power was necessary.

So instead of spirits and item spells, the Ritualist is completely revamped.  The Rit gets these:

Special Ability - Possession - Arranged in the F1-4 slots, these powerful abilities mimic the item spells like Vengeful Was Khanhei from GW1 and/or the Dervish Forms.  When triggered, the Ritualist is "possessed" by a spirit, altering his appearance and changing the way skills work, but not the actual skills themselves.  So a Sword skill called Ancestor's Rage that does additional lightning damage on strike would instead do AoE lightning damage, inflict AoE Blind, and AoE Launch foes from the target impact when under the influence of Destructive Was Glaive.    The same skill, under Tranquil Was Tanasen would instead grant AoE Protection and Stability to any allies in a certain range, while still doing the base skill damage.

Skill Type - Weapon Spells - as in GW1, weapon spells would add various effects such as the return of Splinter Weapon.  These skills would affect the Ritualist when solo or all nearby allies.  From the ubiquitous Splinter Weapon causing AoE damage on hit, to the humble Vital Weapon granting the Rejuvenation effect.

Skill Type - Wraiths - In the brave new world of fast paced combat, Ritualist Masters decided that stationary spirits were too much of a liability and decided on a new method of summoning spirits.  Wraiths are targetable minions that do melee damage instead of the GW1 ranged shots, and move quite quickly.  When a wraith attacks, it loses a portion of its life essence, until it dissipates.  A Ritualist can sacrifice the individual wraith for a negative condition such as Knockdown or Daze on foes, or the effect occurs upon the death of the wraith.

The ritualist's general skills like Spirit Rift are spread among the weapons, and would encompass the direct damage spells from the channeling line.

Dragoon - Leap.  Lots of Leap.  And Spears.

#15 pamkhat

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:33 AM

I'd play the crap out of a shapeshifter, so personally I would love that.  I think we'd be more likely to see a Ritualist type, though.  A ranged tank concept pretty much already exists since the classes have so much versatility as is.  Shapeshifter and Ritualist could definitely fill a void, though.

Down a long enough timeline, I really think we'll see more classes, but I'd love to see more races as well.  I so want a skritt that gains more members as you level up.  Running around as 5 skritt at max level would be awesome.

#16 7thCylon

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:39 AM

I love the sound of a puppeteer class. i was thinking of what if the ritualist eventually became a martial artist type class (mystic) who is more fight and less spells and deals with spirits kind of like all those anime and movies like crouching tiger hidden dragon.

#17 Paronine

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:51 AM

pamkhat said:

I'd play the crap out of a shapeshifter, so personally I would love that.

Play a Norn.  Are people forgetting that shapeshifting is what that race does?

#18 Craywulf

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:56 AM

Sorry I just don't see how the Ritualist is any different than Necromancer. Both are summoners of the dead, One had stationary pets and other did not. There were only slight differences of aesthetics. They have already put the Ritualist armor aesthetics in the scholar class. In one of the skill vids the Necromancer looks very much like a Ritualist.

The stationary pet mechanic is pretty much in the Necromancer. I wouldn't be surprised if the Necromancer gets item utility spells (urn).

#19 Mattsta

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 06:44 AM

Kaleban said:

Ritualist (NEW)
Spoiler

This is one of the best ideas for a new profession I have seen in a while, just because the person didn't focus on one tiny little thing.  If you look at the professions we have they are built up of a handful of different parts that make the whole.

I like your Possession idea.  It is something we don't have yet.  The closest would be the elementalist attunements which completely change the skills whereas possession doesn't change the skills just alters their effects some.  It also brings an interesting way to bring the dervish forms into GW2.

I want to adjust your weapon spells a bit. First I want to say they should be some of the utility skills (which I think you were also thinking).  Then they shouldn't be actual weapon spell buffs, since that would probably mean making them boons which I doubt would happen.  What I think is that they should be walls/fields that have a basic function and then cross-profession combo into the weapon skills.  For example maybe with the splinter weapon, it would be a well type aoe placed on the ground that causes enemies to be crippled when they pass through like they are stepping into a field of splinters (ouch).  Then allied attacks that happen in the field or pass through the field would get the splinter weapon effect like from GW1.

Your Wraiths are too close to Mesmer's phantasms.  They are different but it's more like a twist on an old thing than an entirely different thing.  Each profession needs to be separate and not a re-imagining of what already is.  kaldak I think did a good job explaining this.

kaldak said:

The second part is play style.  In theory every profession should feel quite distinct when you play it regardless of the theme.  Even when you're filling the same role as another profession, it should feel different.  This is not something every MMO does.  Often those differences are only superficial, but in GW2 they seem to run quite deep.  Part of this is that each profession has one or more unique mechanics.  I'm not sure there's really much room for additional play styles considering how flexible the exiting ones are.

I like the wraiths for the thematic part of what kaldak was talking about, but the only way I can think of them playing different is if they built on the possession aspect.  The possession affects yourself, so maybe the wraiths possess your target.  In PvE there might be an elite skill wraith that makes an enemy an ally (wouldn't effect bosses/tough stuff) for a short time, but what I am thinking of is a momentary possession.  The wraith would fly into the enemy looking much like a possession.  Then the wraiths would do some damage and inflict a condition.  Fear and Chilled would be good conditions and the new Confused would also be a good one.  Could also have a wraith wall that has a similar effect but would be a wall much like flamewall.  Cross-profession combos would either have to not exist for these walls or be something different as any of those 3 conditions would be overpowering if any attacks passing through the wall picked up those conditions as well.

EDIT: Necro and Ritualist both deal with the dead, but Necro focuses on the physical while Ritualist focuses on the spiritual.  The Necro summons are like Frankenstein monster, not really summoning but animating the dead.  This is also why I like Kaleban's idea because it focuses on the spiritual with summoning spirits that possess and non-corporeal wraiths that lose health when they try to damage physical entities.  They both deal with death but with the polar opposites of each other on the topic.

You could just as easily say that Necro doesn't focus on death but on Life, since they are giving life to that which did have life before and control the flow life.

Edited by Mattsta, 18 December 2011 - 06:52 AM.


#20 FoxBat

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 07:50 AM

Conjure element actually makes environmental weapons that anyone can pick up. That is what you'd expect a weapon spell to do.

Edited by FoxBat, 18 December 2011 - 07:53 AM.


#21 Nightblaze1

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:04 AM

Tall said:

The nature archetype is already done through the ranger profession. And seriously, lets actually get ideas that don't dominate other MMOs currently.

First off, you clearly don't understand how popular a shapeshifter class is. Secondly, did you notice that I also mentioned a deamonlogist shapeshifter class? Tell me more than say 2 MMOs out there that has a class that can transform into different demons and summon demon familiar. All I can think of is AOC - and that is nothing like what I suggested.

Tall said:

My beef is this: If you are gonna add something, make it completely different from what we already have. I don't want this thread turning into 'Addz paladin class so different from a guardian lol' like a lot of the others.

The deamonologist class I described IS completely different? Please read what I have written instead of commenting blindly. The Necro is nothing like this class, as this class transforms into demons (summoning can be optional). The ranger may be like the druid, in only 1 way - nature themed. But I could start the same argument that the mesmer and elementalist are both magic themed? Its very general.

#22 Reclaimer

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:08 AM

Puppeteer sounds like a fun idea, but sounds like it might be somewhat similar to a necromancer in how it plays.

Paronine said:

Play a Norn.  Are people forgetting that shapeshifting is what that race does?

I was under the impression that norn shape-changing was done through racial elite skills that exist on lengthy cooldowns and stay active for only a short duration. WarCraft's druids, on the other hand, have complete control over their shape-changing abilities.

By all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

#23 Scarsdale Punk

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:15 AM

I'd like to see some sort of infernal summoner like Nightblaze suggests.  They could use a variety of demons with their weapon attacks, limited time demon pets, and make use of a wide selection of conditions.  Black iron chains.  Fiery chasms.  Swarms of imps.  Creating a gaping void.  Summoning tentacles of unspeakable horror.  Covering themselves in terrifying a carapace.  Sounds cool to me!

#24 7thCylon

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:36 AM

I still say that they could easily turn the ritualist into a shaolin monk style class... monks are after all very spiritual people so the ritualist spiritual abilities could fit easily to a martial artist priest dude... could give him a mechanic that transforms his weapons with spirit magic. or like imbuing it with the spirit of the dead..

Also it seemed less like the ritualist were communicating with their ancestors but with everyone and anyone who was dead and in the underworld.

i think there might be court ritualist in the game who sit around tell fortunes and commune with the dead. they just don't go off on adventures anymore because they are so few in numbers in Tyria... they probably still find rangers spirit abilities week and necromancers suspicious.

#25 Great Ro

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:19 AM

Maybe something like that:

Ghost.
You are a vengefull spirit/ghost, one of the races (all of them, charr, sylvari, human, norn, asura, all?). As a living being you were killed by the dragon's power (like when they were flying aroud the world or something like their poison spread around~).

You can either have some dragon-like powers by mutating your body/soul with the dragon power creating either a body-like dragon-something or just a soul corupted by evil power.

As a ghost-soul you will have low hp but high damage reduction (its hard to kill something that's already killed and dont have a body, right?), you would be able to summon other spirits (kind of rytualist/summoner) to fight per side you for a short time (chained souls attacking at distance or mobile ones fighting in melee combat). Something like that.

As a body-possesing half-dead mutated with dragons power (wont look like lizard, more like of a zombie) with high hp, half-tanker able to breath fire or erozion or something, melee and mid range warrior like class with a bit of madness.

Story line about:
-your memories as a living being (getting back in your memorys, fighting as a living being, your family, life, dreams, stuff -all being destroyed by dragons :) ) -that would be cool.
-current state, trying to take revenge on dragon, revange yourself or your family, fight to free your tormented soul from the chains of dragon's poison to be able to at least rest in peace. -that would also work just fine as a motivation and reasoning for a character)

Or other story line:
-chained from the times of Shiro
-Souls/body already tormented by Shiro's powers, those affected by his life and death
-Profession available only for Canthans (or by all profession but starting in Cantha)
-Storyline of their life with Shiro, later fall in sleep by Shiro's death in peace and new one awakened with dragons power.

As a ghost freely moving in downed state but will low speed.
One or two profession (two profession this body-like and soul-like or two variants of one profession either with body or just soul)
Kind of immortal, you died but you are still on this world, you wish to die but you cant before dragons are defeated.

That would be kind of original, or at least interesting.
That also kinda hitting lore. Many charrs, norsns, humans, asruas, all kind of living creatures suffers many victims in fight with destroyers, great destroyer (who was a pawn of dragons~) and after that during the awakening of dragons. Many of those who died must have hated their fate and cursed dragons. But they'd rather rest in peace instead of wandering around the world as half-deads but dragons curse would make them like that :)

What do you think?

Edited by Great Ro, 18 December 2011 - 10:28 AM.


#26 Reign of Dread

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:20 AM

Demon summoners are A. Typical, B. still stepping on the Necromancer's toes, and C. really not in line with anything that's going on with the lore in GW2 currently. It's a cool idea, but it doesn't really fit, in my opinion. Neither does the Ritualist, even with Cantha possibly coming back later on. I think the best thing Arenanet can do is add new weapons and utilities to the existing professions, rather than add entirely new professions that are redundant and destroy balance. Guild Wars 1 taught us that new professions aren't always a good idea, and I hope Arenanet learned from it. I know they did, actually. Also, adding more Ritualist flavor to the Guardian, or adding a few more weapon-based minion spells to the Necromancer could easily fill those playstyles you're looking for.

#27 Craywulf

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:22 AM

Ghost = Death Shroud.

#28 Strill

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:07 AM

If there are any new professions I'd expect the first to be a soldier in order to make things even out.

#29 Diovid of the Land

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:27 AM

Adding more professions is not just about wat niche is left (both in terms of flavor and in terms of gameplay), it's also what niche can not be filled by giving the initial 8 professions more traits, weapons and more utility, healing and elite skills. And of course it has to be balance-able, fit with the lore, fit with all inititial and future races etc. If Anet comes up with something that does all that I'll concede, until then I remain unconvinced adding professions is a good idea.

#30 7thCylon

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:44 AM

in all honesty these are just ideas and thoughts kind for fun... it is a shame so many people just one shot turn down all ideas because of balance or it is to much like one of the 8. we know we aren't begging we are just throwing out ideas so please let us keep on topic and stop putting people down with short answers. that basically say no..

also that ghost idea sounds more like a race then it would a class




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