116 replies to this topic

[Sabre Wolf]

The following below contains info that has become common knowledge for over a year; so I am not going to cite 10 different sources.  And this is a basic question about game play that we do know about

There are two factors that are going to greatly change the way we move in GW2 verses GW1.  These two factors are Jumping and the Loss of Click to Move.  How much do you feel these two movements will impact your personal game play going into GW2?

Jump: This movement I have only dealt with in FPS... and there is a lot of evasiveness to this movement.  I am wondering if this will hurt bow shooting in combat.  I like the idea of jumping over rocks and tree and onto ledges... but how will this effect combat?

Loss of Click to Move: It will be a little annoying not being able to click a spot in the ground and move to that spot.  But, if they retain the Auto Walk feature, then I can live without it.

[Sirius]

Hmm. Interesting questions.

Re: Jump - there is a possibility there will be a bit of auto-aim going on. I noticed in GW1 that small movements don't stop arrows hitting you; you need to change direction/start moving significantly while it's in flight to prevent that, not just a small deviation. Since you probably can't jump super-high, jumping may then not save you.

But that's just a guess.

I don't expect jumping is intended to become a major tactical part of combat but I could be surprised. I do like it making the game at all, but how it affects combat - I have no opinion, will have to wait and see. It made only a modest difference in Oblivion, which is the most similar other RPG (in terms of combat model) I can think of that I've actually played.

Loss of click to move: May take some getting used to, and unfortunately for travelling long distances it's kind of a pain. Auto walk would remove most of my concerns though, as would setting waypoints (heh heh). Other than that - well, I adapted to this model in Oblivion OK so I think I wouldn't mind it too much. I know people who don't use click-to-move even in GW1, actually.

[Malchior Devenholm]

Loss of Click to move=PvPers lose their basic movement and kiting (can't bind skills to QWER ASDF anymore...)

Jump?  If Guild Wars 2 retains auto-facing and auto-attack, then the addition of jumping shouldn't affect combat much at all.  Though it might assist in evasion.

[Lurker]

Jumping was unnecessary in GW1 for two reasons: one of which because the game wasn't designed for it as a functional movement option.  The other was that the game style isn't really impacted by jumping - accuracy and movement speed are all fixed rates for balance purposes, and if you jumped around it wouldn't change this at all.

If we were to assume jumping was added, for the most part it would be a tool for simply adjusting the game environment.  That is to say, rather than walking from A to B, you may now have to jump occasionally as well.  Other than that, there's no real gameplay impact on it - it would be largely irrelevant for combat for the reasons I suggested, except perhaps for making greater use of high-ground positioning (which, again, is more determined by the environment construction than jumping as a mechanic).

Loss of click to move is a bigger issue.  Click to move had two benefits in GW1: firstly, it was serverside and thus not prone to rubber-banding when faced with bodyblocking, giving more reliable control over characters.  Secondly, the increased precision of click to move allowed greatly improved kiting (as direction change could be done far more accurately than by slowly turning with keys) and offense (shifting warriors around a target while in the attack animation, the 'Chiizu' move).  If wasd was improved to not desync, the first issue would be solved, but the mouse offers greater precision in movement that wasd does not.  I'd not like to lose click to move.

[Sirius]

Just want to point out re: direction change; I suspect that could still be handled by the mouse. In GW1 you pretty much have to hold down the mouse button to do it, but that could change.

The PvP issue is significant though. I'd forgotten that you kind of need to be already travelling not to run into trouble with that, even if (like me) you don't remap many of the controls. Auto-walk wouldn't help much unless you could auto-walk sideways ... and preferably any combination of angles.

[Sabre Wolf]

I really don't mind holding the Mouse 2 button down... I basically do it already.  So I don't mind the quick direction change using that fashion.  But I guess for those with Click to Move, this change will involve more finesse movement with the movement keys.  Which is not a bad thing either really if you look at it that way.

btw... I pull this question out of my butt because I feel the topics on here have gotten a little stale:surprised:

[Default]

I just hope when they add jumping, they do so correctly.

Played WAY to many games now where if you jump, you cut off the animation, meaning you can make arrows or fireballs or whatever you are trying to fire hit instantly, and have a much shorter cooldown then it would have had, which uh, would not be a good start for a competitive based PvP game, no?

[Olvi]

Malchior Devenholm said:

Loss of Click to move=PvPers lose their basic movement and kiting (can't bind skills to QWER ASDF anymore...)

I guess...I never use click to move anyways since I jumped from WoW to GW, not the other way around. I always kite using WASD. Altough I must admit that due to the way GW works, it's sometimes insanely hard.

Quote

Jump?  If Guild Wars 2 retains auto-facing and auto-attack, then the addition of jumping shouldn't affect combat much at all.  Though it might assist in evasion.

Argh...all I can say is: if jumping causes dodge-effect then there will be a lot of rabbits running around. I hope they pay attention to that.

I'm not horribly worried about controls in GW2 since I'm very used to WASD + mouse controls. But they really shouldn't blindly follow the pattern set by games like WoW. Altough the movement in that game is pretty much of an ease, it has it's problems. Getting rid of auto attack for starters and sometimes having some weird facing issues.

[athariel]

It's not as much about jumping, it's about being able to jump off a small 1-meter cliff instead of running all the way around. Heck, they could disable jumping in GvG for "real hardcore PvP players".

[Loken]

Malchior Devenholm said:

PvPers lose their basic movement and kiting.

Not really. Click to move is just as important to Warriors as it is to soft targets. However more difficult kiting is, it's that much more difficult to train targets too. It doesn't really change anything.

[pumpkin pie]

Already started using more and more keyboard to play Guild Wars 1.

[Guideborn]

I've always thought of jumping in MMOs as a method of traveling and platforming, but not evasion in combat. It may grant some evasive buff such as in Champions Online and City of Heroes, but not exactly escaping unscathed.

[raspberry jam]

Jumping: Hopefully it won't affect combat at all, apart from being able to jump over fences, up on ledges and what not.

Click to move: Well yeah. I think it's quite interesting to ask why they chose to remove that option. Either they arbitrarily just don't want it there - or they want something else there instead. Maybe clicking on the ground will affect your companion, or maybe there will be free-targeted spells or something.

[IDarko]

I only use click2move when i'm lazy. And i'm playing with 1 hand (pve). But it also helped against rubberbanding.

In pvp it's quite important!
I actually don't understand the reason for removing click2move.. I think it's a strange move,  But we have to see I guess..

Jumping will prolly cancel casting. But I don't think it will cancel melee or ranged combat. Unless it has an casting time. For example. An ranger can use normal attacks and interrupts while jumping, but Burning arrow would be canceled in the air. Because you move.

But this is all speculation ;)

Malchior Devenholm said:

(can't bind skills to QWER ASDF anymore...)

Why not? What does keybinds have to do with the subject? Why can't we use skills with Q, E, R etc? :D Maybe I don't understand what you mean..

[Konig Des Todes]

IDarko said:

Why not? What does keybinds have to do with the subject? Why can't we use skills with Q, E, R etc? :D Maybe I don't understand what you mean..

Those are movement keys, so they're rather "important" to people because of such. Unless you don't mind easy strafing or auto-run.

[IDarko]

Konig Des Todes said:

Those are movement keys, so they're rather "important" to people because of such. Unless you don't mind easy strafing or auto-run.

Yes, but he said that we can't bind those anymore. But why not? :/

I'm using Q E R for skills 6 7 8. I use 6 for auto run. I don't need easy strafing.

But If we can't use click2move anymore, why can't we use binds anymore?

I don't see the connection :D

[athariel]

I disabled click-to-move as soon as I started playing GW and forgot about it since then :P

[captainnl]

I have always prefered WASD in any game. WASD > Click to move, always imo.

[Malchior Devenholm]

IDarko said:

Yes, but he said that we can't bind those anymore. But why not? :/

I'm using Q E R for skills 6 7 8. I use 6 for auto run. I don't need easy strafing.

But If we can't use click2move anymore, why can't we use binds anymore?

I don't see the connection :D

If click to move is out, then you will go back to WASD for movement.

Problem is, experienced PvPers have their QWER ASDF bound to skills 1-8, for easy access.

If you have to use WASD or an equivalent to move, instead of the mouse, then that's fewer binds available for skill usage and what not.

It's not a big problem for me, as I click my skills (yes I'm a baddie), but a good number of experienced PvPers do it with the QWER ASDF.

Also, experienced PvPers will adapt, they always do.

Edited by Malchior Devenholm, 01 February 2010 - 04:14 PM.

[moriz]

i personally don't get why click-to-move has to go for jumping. it should be pretty simple to implement both. for instance:

-press jump, click direction: jump in that direction
-press jump twice while moving: jump in the same direction
-press jump twice while standing still: jump in place

it's not particularly hard to implement, and other games have already done so.

[sandor]

raspberry jam said:

Jumping: Hopefully it won't affect combat at all, apart from being able to jump over fences, up on ledges and what not.

Click to move: Well yeah. I think it's quite interesting to ask why they chose to remove that option. Either they arbitrarily just don't want it there - or they want something else there instead. Maybe clicking on the ground will affect your companion, or maybe there will be free-targeted spells or something.

I think you right about the jumping. I don't really have an opinion about the click to move thing because i think it quite annoying to move with the mouse

[Malchior Devenholm]

I believe they said the removal of click-to-move had to do with how they were designing their world, or the mechanics of bringing Guild Wars into the 3D...Something like that...

[IDarko]

Malchior Devenholm said:

If click to move is out, then you will go back to WASD for movement.

Problem is, experienced PvPers have their QWER ASDF bound to skills 1-8, for easy access.

If you have to use WASD or an equivalent to move, instead of the mouse, then that's fewer binds available for skill usage and what not.

It's not a big problem for me, as I click my skills (yes I'm a baddie), but a good number of experienced PvPers do it with the QWER ASDF.

Also, experienced PvPers will adapt, they always do.

Ah I see now! I never knew some people also changed the WASD keys for skills. ;)

[Guideborn]

Perhaps movement will be a bit more action-packed? Seems as if ArenaNet is trying to move ahead of the mundane mechanics of your average MMO. Nowadays, we've got uber action-packed MOs such as C9, Blade and Soul, and Mabinogi: Heroes being developed. While the whole persistent world element isn't new, ArenaNet will need to implement something more than just the normal clickplay to remain innovative.

I don't believe the action mechanics will be as extensive as said MOs, however.

[Malchior Devenholm]

IDarko said:

Ah I see now! I never knew some people also changed the WASD keys for skills. ;)

Hehe, yeah.  It's mostly a monk setup- QWER ASDF=skills 1-8.  Then it's like JKL; UIO (I think, never play monks) to target party members.  You simply use C to target yourself, as you can't "heal" an enemy so using a prot on a foe simply applies it to yourself.

Edited by Malchior Devenholm, 01 February 2010 - 04:31 PM.

[Malchior Devenholm]

Maglama said:

Perhaps movement will be a bit more action-packed? Seems as if ArenaNet is trying to move ahead of the mundane mechanics of your average MMO. Nowadays, we've got uber action-packed MOs such as C9, Blade and Soul, and Mabinogi: Heroes being developed. While the whole persistent world element isn't new, ArenaNet will need to implement something more than just the normal clickplay to remain innovative.

I don't believe the action mechanics will be as extensive as said MOs, however.

I don't feel they need to take that route.  It's obvious Arenanet is trying to create a mainstream MMO that is very basic in its mechanics, so it can attract players of all ages and ability levels.  Then along with that, it's keeping it's strengths in Competitive PvP to not differentiate too much from the original.

Add on to that the F2P model, and I'm telling you, if marketed right, GW2 will be THE BIGGEST MMO next to Warcraft (at least until the cash cow dies.)

:eek:  I double posted!  My mistake :(

[spaceman236]

apart from the discussion going on here...
shame on me (probarlby alot) but i didnt even know that click to move would be abandond. (or however you write abandon)
but in the second trailer u saw multiple characters jumping to an enemie, so i think that Anet will adapt some skills to jumping.
above all... is anyone here using the clicking system??? i almost slapped my sister when she was playing gw and she didnt move the camera to walk back... she was constantly clicking.... AAAAARGH!!!!

[Malchior Devenholm]

I grew up on WASD and played that way throughout my entire PvE life.  Then my PvP life began, and I discovered WASD wasn't fast enough.  And thus began my click-to-move life.

[spaceman236]

so... u only use clicking in pvp because its faster?
because the world vs world will be a lot slower then regular pvp i suppose (getting stone to quarry, guarding watchtowers...

[IDarko]

Maglama said:

Perhaps movement will be a bit more action-packed? Seems as if ArenaNet is trying to move ahead of the mundane mechanics of your average MMO. Nowadays, we've got uber action-packed MOs such as C9, Blade and Soul, and Mabinogi: Heroes being developed. While the whole persistent world element isn't new, ArenaNet will need to implement something more than just the normal clickplay to remain innovative.

I don't believe the action mechanics will be as extensive as said MOs, however.

Maybe, But I think that the event system will already be a very big thing. But I actually love it, if they would make it more action-packed. I can't wait for the next video. I think it will answer alot of questions! :D

@spaceman. And because WASD can result in rubberbanding.

I like to use both. I use WASD mostly. But I use click2move for certain actions. Knocklocking for example.