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#31 Butcher

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:20 AM

I started to get bothered by the video as soon as they started voicing concerns about the quest system not being linear. They fear the larger MMO community may not accept the quest system because it leaves the player with a choice, basically. They made the quest system sound so terrible in their video, as if having a choice was a bad thing. Anyone new to GW2 would be completely mislead by this video. The plastering of SWTOR comments and comparisons doesn't help either. It was just sloppily put together, and no one really took care of what they were saying. The amount of closed-minded opinions was staggering, too.

It was just a bad video over all, and I want those minutes of my life back.

#32 Arch Angel

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:34 AM

(I am NOT saying I could do anybetter. I am not meaning to imply that I could even come up with an effective concept on one of these programs... I just have some... worries with this...:S)

I kind of dislike the title, not because I don't "get it", but because anyone that is browsing and sees it will INSTANTLY label it as:

-"Lol a bad review already. FAIL GAME."


People dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo naturally think of the "fun" of a game as "omg how much end game content LULZ?!?!"

Which sad to say, stems from the fact that most MMO's ARE built off of that model.

-Get max level, grind for "max gear". Then you can actually fight!

-You can only enter Battlegrounds (BGs) when you are capped level.

-Tournaments usually involve capped level only, sometimes twinks if they feel generous. "Twinks" implies a lot of things in itself. But thats for another thread =p

-You only have access to "REAL" skills at capped level. Everything you got before that point? "ROFL WEAK. WHY IS THAT ON YOUR SKILLBAR MAN WOW THAT WAS USELESS AT LEVEL 5! LOL!"

Etc.


But really... the title isn't really doing anyone too much favors =s


I found everything pretty intuitive actually.

-> I really agree with the statement that people REALLY WANT TO WEDGE PLAYERS INTO THE HOLY TRINITY!

100% agree, people are driving me insane by doing that too! If I hear another player say "Guardian healer DERP" I will howl irl.


-> When they state about the openness.... and how players don't know bosses, etc... well I'd say that is because Guildwars2 is so full of content that they probably would have difficulties with sloughing things down to just one or two things.

That, and, I don't believe that they feel the need to release media information to us yet... open beta is still a while away (I figure at least).

Edited by Arch Angel, 07 January 2012 - 07:04 AM.


#33 Vahkris

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:33 AM

Okay, I finished watching it.  I can't say I agree with everyone who says this was a bad episode.  It wasn't spectacular but it wasn't bad.

The information they said wasn't actually wrong from what I can see (not counting any "not sure we know that yet" stuff), based on what looked like their understanding of the questions they were being asked.  The problems I saw was that they couldn't remember examples for the topics they were trying to talk about, or couldn't remember all of the information or structure it in a way that gave the information more fluidly...unfortunately when you're someone who knows the answers or the info off the top of your head in that specific instance, I know you can get a little frustrated seeing others struggle to put the information into words and sounds like misinformation because it doesn't really portray the feature or mechanic how it would if you knew everything.  I can only imagine how much practice the devs needed to have before they went to the conventions.  I'm sure if Gary was suddenly calling on you and putting you on the spot to answer a question live mere seconds after reading it you'd stumble around for an answer as well.  Being on camera can cause your mind to go blank very often on even easy things.

Also an exercise: Do an elevator pitch for Dynamic Events as if someone just walked up to you and asked what they were, without allowing you to prepare.  It's extremely difficult to explain the intricacies of that system easily within a few minutes unless you've already prepared what you'd say to someone.  I've tried it before and ended up not even covering 1/4 of the whole thing before my mind went blank and I had trouble even covering the basics...so yeah I've spent some time trying to figure out how I'd explain them.

As the video was playing I was thinking about what I would have said, and there's a good amount of info that was left out (accidentally, I'd say) that would have covered a good bit.  Instead of writing out all the things that could have been said, especially regarding builds, dynamic events, and the "endgame from level 1", I'll just include this for now:

How could you guys forget the Asura Clippy knockoff Jeff Grubb suggested during a panel?!?  When you're going to put garish colors together, a small Asura pops up and says "Hi!  You look like you're about to make a fashion mistake."

#34 Fernling306

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:26 AM

http://www.gamebreak...rs2-no-endgame/

Should help out the people that are worried about the no end game problem.
Also weird that the show is all about GW2, yet their knowledge of the game is very bad.

Edited by Fernling306, 07 January 2012 - 09:41 AM.


#35 Symbiont

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:51 AM

Fernling306 said:

http://www.gamebreak...rs2-no-endgame/

Should help out the people that are worried about the no end game problem.
Also weird that the show is all about GW2, yet their knowledge of the game is very bad.

probably representing the majority of people interested in GW2, which the makers of this show probably are also among those people.

as long they show interest, it's all good. no one of us are GW2 expert, but arenanet themselves and they don't make shows like this.

#36 Arch Angel

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:30 AM

Symbiont said:

probably representing the majority of people interested in GW2, which the makers of this show probably are also among those people.

as long they show interest, it's all good. no one of us are GW2 expert, but arenanet themselves and they don't make shows like this.

Agreed! I personally really like the fact that they take their time to actively put input into the community in a new and flashy way.


(And the guy-host is totally hot)

#37 Neon

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:18 PM

Endgame is currently what I am most worried about in GW2. Honestly just replaying the story dungeons is not good enough since they will all be very easy. I can't see any of the world events being especially hard either. It currently seems there is nothing for skilled small coordinated groups to do in pve at all. I'm sorry, the whole game is NOT endgame. So the village has been taken over by centaurs. I don't really care.

Edited by Neon, 07 January 2012 - 12:41 PM.


#38 Flavvor

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:34 PM

I think you guys really dropped the ball on this episode. A Net has answered most of the questions asked on this episode. I was really hard to watch . Dungens, Story mode first then explore mode. In explore mode each dungen has 3 paths you can go at the start and they have dynamic events throught them. Each path has a different main monster at the end to defeat. They are also going to have 8 dungens at release. So thats 32 different dungens to do when the game is released. ( Each dungen has 4 different paths. 1 for story and 3 for explore mode. So 8x4= 32)

This episode just makes it seams like A Net has no idea what there doing and you guys made the game sound horrible.

----------

Butcher said:

I started to get bothered by the video as soon as they started voicing concerns about the quest system not being linear. They fear the larger MMO community may not accept the quest system because it leaves the player with a choice, basically. They made the quest system sound so terrible in their video, as if having a choice was a bad thing. Anyone new to GW2 would be completely mislead by this video. The plastering of SWTOR comments and comparisons doesn't help either. It was just sloppily put together, and no one really took care of what they were saying. The amount of closed-minded opinions was staggering, too.

It was just a bad video over all, and I want those minutes of my life back.

I agree, they should of been more prepaired. It was like they just heard about the game 10 minutes before the episode.

Edited by Flavvor, 07 January 2012 - 12:40 PM.


#39 Neon

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:39 PM

While I am in no way convinced that the current plan for endgame is sufficient there was nothing wrong with the podcast.

Flavvor said:

I think you guys really dropped the ball on this episode. A Net has answered most of the questions asked on this episode.

Well no sh*t. You want them make up answers to questions anet havn't released any info on?

#40 Flavvor

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:45 PM

Neon said:

While I am in no way convinced that the current plan for endgame is sufficient there was nothing wrong with the podcast.



Well no sh*t. You want them make up answers to questions anet havn't released any info on?

I do not want them to make up answers but the questions about dungens have been out for a long time. Along with what you get at the end of dungens in explore mode.

#41 Arch Angel

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:52 PM

Neon said:

While I am in no way convinced that the current plan for endgame is sufficient there was nothing wrong with the podcast.



Well no sh*t. You want them make up answers to questions anet havn't released any info on?

I'm not trying to be ignorant, but I'm pretty confident that they will definately have specialized content for "elite" players.

There is no way you, I, or anyone else that isn't "in the loop" would possibly know otherwise.

But I litterally do not believe that they will drop the ball like that, because that is actually a glaring "dropping" of said ball.

#42 Neon

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:56 PM

Yeah but they aren't the ones asking the questions. If members of the public still don't know the answer then covering the question means at least one person is now more informed.

----------

Arch Angel said:

I'm not trying to be ignorant, but I'm pretty confident that they will definately have specialized content for "elite" players.

There is no way you, I, or anyone else that isn't "in the loop" would possibly know otherwise.

But I litterally do not believe that they will drop the ball like that, because that is actually a glaring "dropping" of said ball.

No I don't know, but they havn't said anything to the contrary so I have go go on the information that I do have. Honestly with the state of the game industry today there is no way I would assume developers would make the right decision. Infact I usually assume developers will make the bad choice / the lazy option and I am almost always proved right.

I have a very pessimistic view when I evaluate how future games will turn out and I think this is the best way of doing it. If you take the pessimistic view either you are proved right or pleasantly surprised. If you assume everything will be brilliant beforehand you are either proved right or disappointed. The first option is clearly better. Furthermore, your (or other peoples) critisisms may lead to change, which doesn't happen if you always assume what is on the table is perfect before you have tried it.

Edited by Neon, 07 January 2012 - 01:03 PM.


#43 MaZt

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:08 PM

If they manage to make the explorable dungeons so hard in the level of Dark Souls I think that the hardcore players are gonna appreciate it.
Besides Raid players+Dark Souls players= Masochists players
The more they die they more they like it  :D

#44 Elfen Lied

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:55 PM

If there's no endgame, then I don't see why I'd wait for this

#45 Mordakai

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 03:22 PM

Elfen Lied said:

If there's no endgame, then I don't see why I'd wait for this

It depends what your mean by "endgame".

If you mean endless grind to get better statted armor that the developer artificially limits how many times you can complete a Raid so that people will keep paying a monthly fee....  then no, GW2 will not have that.  


If you mean content to complete when you are level 80:  yes, GW2 will have that.

There will be plenty of level 80 dynamic events.  There will be Dungeons that have 3 multiple branches to offer replayability.  And, of course, WvWvW.

#46 Andlát

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 03:23 PM

I do not understand why people prefer playing a game for hours  just grinding and doing repetitive quests so that they can get to the ''good stuff'', instead of enjoying the entire game and being given the ''good stuff'' since the very beginning. I am quite glad that A-net took the '' the entire game should be fun '' approach.

#47 Makovorn

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 04:20 PM

mmm ... I'm not too sure what to make of the newest episode of Guildcast. I appreciate that it is a lot more difficult for Rubi and Shawn to try and answer questions at the top of their heads in a "live" environment, as opposed to looking at the questions and writing a good, fact based response. So sometimes a few facts get muddled up here and there ... understandable, but there is just so much misinformation that seems to go uncorrected.

I don't have any gameplay time with GW2 and I'm not nearly as much "involved" in the Guild Wars franchise than the guests on the show, however even as a sideline fan, certain things immediately makes a red flag pop up in my mind: When I hear the words "Side quests", "quest logs", "quests", "endgame", "the combat role trinity" and so on ... when I hear these things mentioned I'm very alert, because there are so many misconceptions around these issues.

An example - Gary mentions:

Quote

... I would almost imagine that there's gonna be some way in your quest log to kind-of guide you and sort-of point you in the right direction to say "hey this is your class quest - you should go off in this direction for that", "these are your side quests" ...

I wouldn't let things like this stick - these things simply don't exist in GW2 and this is not how GW2 breadcrumbs players into a certain direction. Sure, Shawn tries to explain how GW2 is not as linear as in GW1, however this would be the ideal opportunity to jump in and tell the viewers about the absence of the traditional quest model and quest log, how dynamic events and the personal story work and how your story is recorded in your journal.

More than anything, I would address the viewer's question in this regard by telling him/her how the scout system works and how it gently nudges you in the direction of the dynamic events. This alone would put the viewer at ease, knowing that he/she would still have some sense of direction in terms of where the action is in the absence of a traditional quest model.

As fans of GW2, we know all these things, but some newcomers are still very confused about even the basic stuff. This is just a small example (maybe not even the best example) of things that made me cringe a little. I think the comment box on the gamegreaker.tv site really tackles these points very well and I really, really hope that people are reading those too.

In any event, the show was very entertaining as always. I can certainly look past the little errors here and there - I'm not influenced by it. Hopefully the show will draw more fans to GW2 and ultimately here to Guru, where there is no shortage of friendly people willing to answer even the most basic of questions to the newest of fans.

#48 Noa

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:34 PM

Elfen Lied said:

If there's no endgame, then I don't see why I'd wait for this
More game for us then. Personally I'm seeing mostly WoW and other grinding MMO players say this kind of stuff and if they'd just take a moment to read some of the information instead of reading the info of Pandaren's 'pokemon' line up they'd see GW2 is a great and fantastic game that won't continuously cost them over and over again.

#49 Ranko

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:32 PM

Neon said:

While I am in no way convinced that the current plan for endgame is sufficient there was nothing wrong with the podcast.

Well Raiding is barely cutting it for endgame... Raids are horribly boring after the first 3-4 times you run it, at that point it's simple a "try to be better than everyone else" kind of reason for pushing on. With Guild Wars 2, they don't want you to have that feeling. They want you to log on and see an dynamic event that you haven't seen before coming into play. They want you to push further along the line of that quest and see what epic adventure they've got in store for you.

That said, sure there will be a finite number of things to do in Guild Wars 2, but I'm fairly certain we will see small updates every so often just to spice up the mix once again.

#50 Arkham Creed

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:43 PM

My god when the skill question popped up I wanted to strangle Rubi. You completely forgot about the damned skill challenges that reward skill points used to unlock additional utility skills in any order you damned well please. Instead she ends up saying “that’s something we don’t really know a lot about….”

YES WE DO! It was in a blog a little while back. It is traits we don’t know about, at this point we know everything about skills except what exactly those challenges entail.

http://www.arena.net...s-2-g-star-demo

Posted Image
Posted Image

My god….these people keep complaining about the lack of news when they clearly have already forgetting all the news already released. Here is an idea; go read the freaking blog again. Apparently it will all be new to you.

Edited by Arkham Creed, 07 January 2012 - 07:49 PM.


#51 Scarsdale Punk

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:54 PM

Arkham Creed said:

Spoiler
I only seemed to catch this part of the podcast live and missed the rest.  But this did really frustrate me to see.  They didn't have a grasp on how we earn skills (besides weapon skills).  And even when Gary asked about attribute points Shawn and Rubi just didn't seem to know.  I mean, they're still fairly settled on Power, Precision, Toughness, and Vitality right?

#52 Ranko

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:01 PM

Arkham Creed said:

My god when the skill question popped up I wanted to strangle Rubi. You completely forgot about the damned skill challenges that reward skill points used to unlock additional utility skills in any order you damned well please. Instead she ends up saying “that’s something we don’t really know a lot about….”

YES WE DO! It was in a blog a little while back. It is traits we don’t know about, at this point we know everything about skills except what exactly those challenges entail.

http://www.arena.net...s-2-g-star-demo

http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/HeroWeaponSkills.jpg
http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/HeroSlotSkills.jpg

My god….these people keep complaining about the lack of news when they clearly have already forgetting all the news already released. Here is an idea; go read the freaking blog again. Apparently it will all be new to you.

Scarsdale Punk said:

I only seemed to catch this part of the podcast live and missed the rest.  But this did really frustrate me to see.  They didn't have a grasp on how we earn skills (besides weapon skills).  And even when Gary asked about attribute points Shawn and Rubi just didn't seem to know.  I mean, they're still fairly settled on Power, Precision, Toughness, and Vitality right?

My goodness, if they missed something, there is no reason to get so angry about it. Simply leave them a nice comment about what they missed and I'm sure they will correct it in the next episode. I mean, do you want someone screaming about every little thing you do wrong?

#53 Scarsdale Punk

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:04 PM

Who's screaming and angry?  I said it was frustrating and pointed out why.

#54 Trise

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:05 PM

Scarsdale Punk said:

I only seemed to catch this part of the podcast live and missed the rest.  But this did really frustrate me to see.  They didn't have a grasp on how we earn skills (besides weapon skills).  And even when Gary asked about attribute points Shawn and Rubi just didn't seem to know.  I mean, they're still fairly settled on Power, Precision, Toughness, and Vitality right?

Yes. That is correct. Although ANet has been working to make Toughness and Vitality "more interesting" and distinct from each other in their effects, so there's still a bit of mystery there.

--------------------------

Hey guys... I'm all for being passionate about the game, but several of you are going way past "passionate" into "psychotic". You did the same thing to Pokket and Gary earlier, when they weren't sure about things in Guild Wars 2 (and completely forgetting that Gary has to be well-versed in lots of different MMOs while Pokket was decidedly a Rift fangirl and offering an outside perspective). Now you're turning against our old friends, Rubi and Shawn? who have been valued sources of news and information since before the beginning (and, incidentally, two people who have far more hands-on experience with the game than the average demo-player)? Where does the madness end?

No wonder Gary is afraid of "getting stabbed in the neck". No wonder Mike B. was afraid to speak critically of the game. No wonder people think this community is "awful". We're better than this. Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 have the best damn communities on the internet. Can we please do a better job representing that?

Thank you for your time.

Edited by Trise, 07 January 2012 - 08:17 PM.


#55 Arkham Creed

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:06 PM

Scarsdale Punk said:

I only seemed to catch this part of the podcast live and missed the rest.  But this did really frustrate me to see.  They didn't have a grasp on how we earn skills (besides weapon skills).  And even when Gary asked about attribute points Shawn and Rubi just didn't seem to know.  I mean, they're still fairly settled on Power, Precision, Toughness, and Vitality right?

Last I heard everyone had four primary attributes that they could improve as they level up, and “re-spec” outside of combat at will.

Power: Damage.
Precision: Crit chance.
Toughness: ability to shrug off weak attacks
Vitality: Maximum health.

As far as I know this hasn’t changed. And as far as the armor/guardian thing; guardians were confirmed on reddit to be in the middle tier health pool under warriors and necromancers and were said shortly after their reveal to be unable to tank due to that lower health pool.

These guys shouldn’t be in charge of anything claiming to be informative about Guild Wars 2; it’s just the blind leading the blind.

#56 Ranko

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:06 PM

Frustration and anger go hand in hand, all I'm saying is that they two posts I quoted came off as angry to me, and it would be better just to explain nicely what they did wrong so that they can correct it.

#57 Vahkris

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:17 PM

Yes, there's no reason to get upset.  Their minds went blank and they couldn't remember the various things we would say in posts when asked the same question in the safety of our rooms with time to verify facts.  Would happen to most people.

One thing I wanted to comment on the endgame philosophy is that IMO it entirely hinges on them getting the balance on sidekicking perfect.  I would honestly be willing to wait an additional 2 months if it meant getting that feature perfect, since it is what makes all of the raid-like content at the various levels (specifically talking about the elite events) still viable at max level.

#58 Specialz

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:31 PM

I haven't actually listen to the podcast, but damn, people be trippin over the little mistakes based on the comments. We all like to think its easy to talk infront of cameras, but it really isn't. Think about that presentation you had to do in high school, now imagine having hundreds or thousands of fanbois oops, "people" watching and judging you on their forums, it isn't easy right?

#59 Arkham Creed

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:08 PM

Specialz said:

I haven't actually listen to the podcast, but damn, people be trippin over the little mistakes based on the comments. We all like to think its easy to talk infront of cameras, but it really isn't. Think about that presentation you had to do in high school, now imagine having hundreds or thousands of fanbois oops, "people" watching and judging you on their forums, it isn't easy right?

The audience of Gamebreaker TV are hardly fanboys. Many of them are longtime fans of the channel, but have never heard of guildcast and are using it to experience GW2 for the very first time. It is their forum for new information and to clear up, or exasperate, their doubts. In affect Rubi has become GW2’s ambassador to an entirely new demographic of potential players, and that is not a role for someone who gives a blank stare when asked a very basic question.

#60 Culture Shock

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:42 PM

Arkham Creed said:

My god when the skill question popped up I wanted to strangle Rubi. You completely forgot about the damned skill challenges that reward skill points used to unlock additional utility skills in any order you damned well please. Instead she ends up saying “that’s something we don’t really know a lot about….”

YES WE DO! It was in a blog a little while back. It is traits we don’t know about, at this point we know everything about skills except what exactly those challenges entail.

http://www.arena.net...s-2-g-star-demo

http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/HeroWeaponSkills.jpg
http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/HeroSlotSkills.jpg

My god….these people keep complaining about the lack of news when they clearly have already forgetting all the news already released. Here is an idea; go read the freaking blog again. Apparently it will all be new to you.

Yeah they don't seem to know very much about this game at all.




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