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You won't play Jedi | mesmer.pl


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#-29 plutonka

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 10:40 AM

Here's my article about The Holy Trinity and new Guild Wars 2 combat mechanics.

http://mesmer.pl/?p=157

I hope you'll enjoy it, I tried to make my best. You'll find some graphs there, Holy Trinity advantages and disadvantages, and the answer why GW2 system is different.

Thanx for your time mates!

#-28 Naima Omadara

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 10:46 AM

Best article I have read that explains the Holy Trinity in depth and how it works in GW2 - Great Job!

#-27 Kryti

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 10:51 AM

Great article, really like the diagrams

#-26 Coren

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 10:52 AM

Overall a nice simple read on the trinity system (I didn't know Everquest introduced it:)). I only have 1 gripe with the section :"Is there anything born healer can enjoy?". I don't think the Guardian fits the bill perfectly. In my Opinion the engineer fits it better because he can distribute health packs and the like to his team in various ways. Or the Elementalist can bring down healing rain with water magic.

I would recommend saying that any pure minded healer will find a way of healing his party in different ways depending on the profession and presonal taste :)

But I do like the fact you said that "healing" isn't a role anymore, more something every profession can do.

Edit: The diagrams are indeed well done:) very comprehensive

#-25 Thalador

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:11 PM

You won't play a Jedi (unless we force the Guardian to be one)...





...but you'll be a Sith! *visages of mesmer girl electroducing Sons of Svanir, applying choke to one and suffocating him, and burning the last one  pops into mind, followed by the "UNLIMITED POWAH" moment of the sylvari mesmer* :p ;) :D :cool:

#-24 delchev

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 12:13 PM

Great work indeed.

#-23 Klaupatiuz Lem

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 04:05 PM

See, now this is what I enjoy reading.  [RANT COMING]  Lately the "news, interviews, and articles" section has been full of empty "GW2 wins most anticipated MMO of 2012" articles from nearly every web publication out there.  Glad to see the recognition, but it's getting pretty vapid in that forum section atm.  This however was a good read.

On Topic:  very helpful graphics.

#-22 plutonka

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 05:46 PM

Thank you guys :) I'm so glad you liked my post.

Coren: You are right, and I actually wrote similar thing:

Quote

The simplest answer is: sure, if you love healing classes, play Guardian. But Guardian isn’t a healer in any way, and there are many professions that can support their team in different ways.

I meant, some people may say that Guardian is an obvious choice, cause it's said to be a bit more support-oriented. But the truth is he is not a healer anyway, and when it comes to support, there are other professions which can do it, but in a different ways.

#-21 LastDay

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 08:03 PM

I'd call the Guardian the closest profession to a healer, too.
As in many of them have a ton of support skills without even trying to focus on them.

The Elementalist's Water Attunement or the Engineer's Elixir Gun can work as awesome support but they are both choices.
Less so for Water Attunement as they always have it, but you still have to switch to it and can't deal tons of damage while attuned to it.

It's literally impossible to create a Guardian that doesn't have any Boons.
Most if not all weapon sets have some, and even if you walked around with no weapon at all you'd still have your Virtues to use.
(And Necro is kinda the same with Conditions.)

It's a pretty good article! The pictures are pretty nice, too.
I'd like to see more people put systems like these as pictures. It'd get even the lazy readers interested.

#-20 Sard

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 08:29 PM

A very honest and straightforward assessment of the trinity, mmo's and what Anet is trying to do.

Very personable tone, which means less likely to be flamed. But it doesn't skirt any issues either.

As much as we ridicule the games still stuck with the trinity, we all played them and we all filled roles within trinities. There were moments of thrill, to be sure, but the reasons you list as advantages (which are true btw) are no longer enough for an avid veteran gamer to survive on.

So many of us are now unwilling to shell out 60 bucks to play the same game, with the same mechanics, just with different lore and looks.

If any company can pull off this revolution, that is, to abandon the tried and true (and old and boring) way to do things in an mmo...it's Anet. Super talented, super committed and totally on our side as gamers themselves.

Great read...thanks very much!

#-19 Shoros

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 11:17 AM

Nice article with some new thoughts about the "old" trinity system and the new one.

#-18 Chalky

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 01:08 PM

plutonka said:

Here's my article about The Holy Trinity and new Guild Wars 2 combat mechanics.

http://mesmer.pl/?p=157

I hope you'll enjoy it, I tried to make my best. You'll find some graphs there, Holy Trinity advantages and disadvantages, and the answer why GW2 system is different.

Thanx for your time mates!

Love your site dude, the design is really fantastic.  Beautiful article too, really good.

Are you going to be doing many English language articles or will they be mostly Polish?
Do you need help or just want to chat about moderation?  Drop me a PM.

#-17 Belenos

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 05:18 PM

Well written article there! Kudos to you!

#-16 Ravious

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 04:22 PM

Chalky said:

Love your site dude, the design is really fantastic.  Beautiful article too, really good.

Are you going to be doing many English language articles or will they be mostly Polish?

I agree. Really nice all around.

I think one of the main things is that there will still be roles. Take the Tequatl fight. There needs to be people on guard duty, people firing cannons, people taking down the explodey zombies, etc. Then what about people rezzing, people DPSing, etc. These roles will need to be filled to win, but any profession can do it.

So I think we will still have dungeons, events that require a holy-trinity-like role filling, but it won't be so strict that it is the only role-puzzle... and classes can way more easily share the roles.

#-15 Kalidri

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 04:59 PM

Nice article!

Oddly, GW's pve ALMOST did it with their dual class system - my guild consisted of casters mostly, so our style was skirmishing, using snares, conditions, ambush and high DPS to control and kill, with several of us carrying support skills as needed. We handily did content up to DOA - which forced the holy trinity (a shame). I have funny memories of letting pugs join our party and leaving our group because of 'no tank'. Every game I have since played was much more strict, forcing the holy trinity very early on in pve. So I guess this leads me to believe that if anyone can allow the type of play I enjoyed, Anet can.

#-14 Nikorasu

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:12 PM

Excess of commas, makes an article, sound slow and, clunky.

Other than that, I liked it. Good, job.

#-13 plutonka

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:38 AM

Chalky: I'm glad you like the design, but I'm not the author ;D I bought this wordpress theme, I'm not a web designer ;)
Yeah, I want to translate my articles, but it's quite time consuming, so it may take some time. Blame this guy.

Nikorasu: I know my English isn't very good and I could use some help. But I didn't find anyone who could edit my articles and polish the style. I hope I'll get better :)

Ravious: We don't know it yet, but I think that PvE may differ due to different encounters. Since there is no true tank, there won't be taunts / detaunts, so every class should be able to withstand at least one hit. Just as I wrote - if you have to control and can't 'tank', it can really get interesting. It won't be just a next copy of WoW, at least.

Edited by plutonka, 23 January 2012 - 09:44 AM.


#-12 Bridger

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 05:25 PM

Very well done!  Loved the whole thing, especially the intro :)

#-11 AnTxJeTs

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 06:39 PM

Pretty good read. Like the images for the "holy trinity". It does help the people who are new to the GW2 world that every player fits into every role at any given time. Taking out the holy trinity does really make PvP and e-sport as it's going to take major skill when there are no "dedicated healers". Guardians and water eles will be highly sought after.

#-10 Chalky

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:33 PM

plutonka said:

Chalky: I'm glad you like the design, but I'm not the author ;D I bought this wordpress theme, I'm not a web designer ;)

Ah, but still, you have excellent taste at least! :D
Do you need help or just want to chat about moderation?  Drop me a PM.

#-9 Hoolee

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 09:24 PM

I loved the article. Especially when you said that GW2 wont be suitable for baddies, even though you ddint say it directly lol...

#-8 Freyka

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:37 AM

Great job, I really enjoyed the article. Loved the diagrams too.

#-7 Zosimus

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:16 AM

I just love it :)

Great article and very well put :D

#-6 Yphex

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:14 AM

Indeed a great article and practically saying all what I tired to tell people in the TB thread but your explanation is much more indepth and better explained then I could ever do it.

Top quality article. Hats off to you sir/madame or whatever. ;)

#-5 Orubatosu

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:29 PM

I have sometimes thought that even if there´s no a healer in GW2, the support classes can do a similar work.

Simple question of mathematics. You have one goal: Your friend must not die. Enemies are lowering his health pool, so you have two possible strategies:

One: Refill the health pool. You cannont do this.
Two: Make more difficult to lower the health pool.

Why?... boons, shielding, etc... in fact the goal is the same

Oh well... I know, is not the same, but the goal is pretty similar

The question are: Can you really do this?

#-4 Memilish

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:36 PM

Maybe. The idea that players have the dodge thing to protect their health bar leaves a fair possibility in the hand of the player to not lose anything in the first place. It's a fairly limited resource though, and I could easily see situations arise where you rather than try to "dodge everything" end up having to "dodge correctly", i.e. trying to dodge everything will leave your bar empty and get your face burned by some big, horrible attacks. Then you'd have to let the smaller attacks hit you (maybe enough to self-heal through, maybe not; assuming you can't simply run out of the way), to ensure you don't get three quarters knocked off by that theoretical big boom.

In the end, the goal is indeed the same - don't die - but leaving it in the hands of individual players (to a point) rather than a healer standing around constantly refilling the bars after being hit by unavoidable attacks is intended to make a game that feels like it plays differently.

Will it? Too early to say. Proof of concept isn't proof of execution, after all. :)

#-3 Jesse

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:56 PM

Good article, hopefully we get more info the 20th February about the whole 'new trinity system'.

#-2 Samhayn

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:04 PM

I have a feeling that the way the combat system is going to work in this game will vary in the fact that all players/classes will have to fill all rolls at some point during a combat. If the system is to truly work in an encounter 2-3 people will be splitting the damage taken well almost the whole party uses there control and everyone has to use there healing. Once you get up in the harder versions of dungeons everyone will be rotating in to take some hits controll/cc will have to be more coordinated and healing skills for self and aoe party heals will need to be used by everyone and wisely.

With out seeing the harder pve in action I can only speculate. It just seems that this is how it would work. Sure you can "spec" a guardian to be Tanky but that may mean that you are able to stand toe to toe a little longer then say a 2h sword warrior before you need to back out and heal( you also most likely have skills that let the warrior mitigate a few extra hits).