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Circle strafing in GW2


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#1 Berlus

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:28 PM

What do you think how important is circle strafing in GW2 pvp? especially as melee?
In gameplay videos I haven´t seen anyone doing it! maybe because they played for the first time....

#2 upier

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:35 PM

I am hoping it won't be too important, because, quite simply, I don't think I'll be able to do that many things at once.

#3 Fatalis

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:39 PM

Certainly a person who will be able to maneuver their character's well will do better than a person who doesn't.

#4 Berlus

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:46 PM

Fatalis said:

Certainly a person who will be able to maneuver their character's well will do better than a person who doesn't.

that's right but I talk especially about circle around a foe in order to evade hits

#5 Nick5130

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:35 PM

Look at the vids we've seen. The movement speed in combat doesn't really seem fast enough to do that constantly IMO. Plus the dodge ability kind of renders strafing unnecessary once you recognize when a big hit is coming.

#6 Atlus

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:47 PM

My guess:  Less important than Age of Conan, but more important than WOW. If they make it too important, then latency may become too much of a factor.  Between dodge and strafing, I expect you will be able to avoid taking some big hits in melee vs. melee, while landing your own, but you won't be able simply to avoid all damage (like you could against a bad melee player in AoC).  In general, movement will be very important (as I said in response to this identical question in another thread, before you created a new topic.)

#7 nurt

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:53 PM

Berlus said:

that's right but I talk especially about circle around a foe in order to evade hits

there's no bodyblocking, so jumping back and forth through your foe might be more effective.  you force them to constantly do full 180 degree turns instead of panning their camera to follow a slowly arcing target.  anyone who clicks their skills and turns with their keyboard is completely screwed when you start doing that.

#8 NijjijjioN

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 04:42 PM

It will be very important in GW2 in my opinion.

#9 Berlus

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 04:54 PM

Atlus said:

My guess:  Less important than Age of Conan, but more important than WOW. If they make it too important, then latency may become too much of a factor.  Between dodge and strafing, I expect you will be able to avoid taking some big hits in melee vs. melee, while landing your own, but you won't be able simply to avoid all damage (like you could against a bad melee player in AoC).  In general, movement will be very important (as I said in response to this identical question in another thread, before you created a new topic.)

Yes In Age of Conan circle strafing was difference between a good and bad player especially if you played a squishy class like a assassin....

nurt said:

there's no bodyblocking, so jumping back and forth through your foe might be more effective.  you force them to constantly do full 180 degree turns instead of panning their camera to follow a slowly arcing target.  anyone who clicks their skills and turns with their keyboard is completely screwed when you start doing that.

sure that there is no bodyblocking / collision detection? http://www.guildwars...54&postcount=58 Here you can read that you only can move through not targeted foes...

Edited by Berlus, 09 February 2012 - 05:08 PM.


#10 nurt

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:41 PM

Berlus said:

sure that there is no bodyblocking / collision detection? http://www.guildwars...54&postcount=58 Here you can read that you only can move through not targeted foes...

almost 100% sure there's no collision detection in pvp.  he does specify mob in that quote.

#11 Atlus

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:56 PM

nurt said:

almost 100% sure there's no collision detection in pvp.  he does specify mob in that quote.

Would love to hear more on this.  They specified mob in the quote, but it seemed to be a response to a PvP question.  I had in my brain that there would be limited collision detection between you and your specific target (which seemed like a decent balance since positionals will be important in this game).  My knowledge may have been from that quote though.  Any other sources on this?

#12 Berlus

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:31 PM

Atlus said:

Would love to hear more on this.  They specified mob in the quote, but it seemed to be a response to a PvP question.  I had in my brain that there would be limited collision detection between you and your specific target (which seemed like a decent balance since positionals will be important in this game).  My knowledge may have been from that quote though.  Any other sources on this?

read it again;)

the butcher: ".....I found that collision between players is now possible....."

Stéphane Lo Presti: "You are right........"

I think the clarification of Eric Flannum is just an example in order to explain it!

#13 nurt

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:38 PM

they may have changed it, but at one time it was confirmed that body blocking/collision was not a part of pvp.  i'm almost positive of that much (although i wouldn't know where to begin looking for a quote.  it was something i read a while ago).

#14 shaolinwind

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:39 PM

Easy to say, the 'higher skilled' players in PvP will have more prowess in their movement and placement in the battle. Strafing, jumping, kiting, will all be present and involved. Hopefully they find a way to eliminate the need to learn jump-turning tactics as that is practically required in some other competitive games.

#15 Berlus

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:54 PM

nurt said:

they may have changed it, but at one time it was confirmed that body blocking/collision was not a part of pvp.  i'm almost positive of that much (although i wouldn't know where to begin looking for a quote.  it was something i read a while ago).

I remember it was in a interview from 2010....

#16 Kymeric

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:53 PM

I hope with the way they've been emphasizing movement, that circle strafing will be counterproductive.  We should be moving for tactical reasons, not just moving in a circle around our target to make it hard to hit us.

Edited by Lemming, 09 February 2012 - 10:45 PM.
removing reference to deleted post


#17 DieWildeHilde

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:02 PM

Like in basically any FPS game - anyone clicking and keyboard-turning will be outplayed by someone with strafe/jump skills.

Basic strafing is easy to learn however for slower players like myself:

- Unbind moving backwards
- Replace "turn right" with "strafe right" and with left as well
- Turn player with the mouse
- Turn camera with clicked right mouse button
- Bind strafe to the mouse thumb buttons if you cannot handle hitting more than two keys with the left hand

And voila, you have 80% of the possibilities a really fast player has and it takes no more than two hours to learn for a slow player.

#18 Humbaba

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:03 PM

Kymeric said:

I hope with the way they've been emphasizing movement, that circle strafing will be counterproductive.  We should be moving for tactical reasons, not just moving in a circle around our target to make it hard to hit us.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, because an emphasis on movement should make circle-strafing more productive, in my mind anyway. And I can see how it would be very effective in PvP with all the directional abilities. It's not difficult to do it right, just bind all your abilities, bind A and D to strafe left and right (or whatever you use for movement), and use your mouse to turn. It makes gameplay more fun also, in my opinion.

Edit: Dang, DieWildeHilde beat me to it!

Edited by Lemming, 09 February 2012 - 10:45 PM.


#19 NijjijjioN

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:47 PM

I came from a FPS background from quake/cs to MMO's so by nature HAD to use mouse to turn.

@DieWildeHilde Thought I was only one who unbinded backwards movement key, most people don't gives such and awesome extra key to have.

Edited by Lemming, 09 February 2012 - 10:55 PM.
removed reference to banned guy's posts


#20 kluugw2

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:01 PM

Kymeric said:

I hope with the way they've been emphasizing movement, that circle strafing will be counterproductive.  We should be moving for tactical reasons, not just moving in a circle around our target to make it hard to hit us.

thats a tactical reason i think

#21 Humbaba

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:43 PM

NijjijjioN said:

I came from a FPS background from quake/cs to MMO's so by nature HAD to use mouse to turn.

@DieWildeHilde Thought I was only one who unbinded backwards movement key, most people don't gives such and awesome extra key to have.

Yup, I used S as my PvP trinket in WoW, always hit it by accident when I first bound it but once I got used to it, it became a perfect bind. I think I will bind "Stomp" to S and bind one of my utility skill to F. It will be so nice not having so many binds in GW2, I hate having to use shift and alt +1234qerfszxcv. Slightly off topic, but it should make it easier for new players to learn to circle strafe because you shouldn't have to hit so many keys all at once. :D

#22 tddavis

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:03 AM

well first of all many of the range attacks can cast while moving making it very hard for melee to sit and strafe and run through the caster to stop casts. there is also no interrupting of casting by facing the wrong way. If it is unpredictable strafing I imagine it will be useful to stop hits. Just like when I play FPS and lead my target, The GW2 Engine will lead the ranged player's shots. Being predictable gets you killed and I love people who circled strafe in a constant direction, basically giving the player a free it.

I think being unpredictable will matter more than circle strafing by itself.

#23 Phantaram

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:42 AM

Not gonna be very many binds in this game, I'll probably leave s key on for the lulz.

Anyways, I'm not sure how spells work with concerns to where your target is at when the spell goes off/when you start casting. Either way I don't think it will effect this game a whole lot in most situations since people can move around while casting pretty much everything. If you have some type of crazy burst speed buff then you could definitely take advantage of it if it's like WoW though. (checks opponents position at the beginning and end of cast)

#24 Zetor

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:58 AM

Mouse-turning and hotkeying all abilities is a must, obviously.

Backpedaling (S-key) was useful when I was tanking stuff in pve and had to make sure the mobs weren't hitting my side/back while positioning them. I'm not sure that applies to GW2 though :p

#25 upier

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:46 AM

Zetor said:

Backpedaling (S-key) was useful when I was tanking stuff in pve and had to make sure the mobs weren't hitting my side/back while positioning them. I'm not sure that applies to GW2 though :p
http://wiki.guildwar.../Body_direction

Concussion Shot (stuns when it hits from behind)
Cross Fire (bleeds when it hits from behind or the side)
Hilt Bash (stuns when it hits from behind)
Backstab (deals more damage from behind)

#26 DieWildeHilde

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:04 AM

In Korea players use the S key in FPS or MMOs to make mini-adjustments to range. In Europe and in the US any S-key usage will make a player being immediately be called "noob", "keyboard-turner" or something similar. The last BlizzCon (WoW Arena tournament with 100k$ price) was won by a team with a Korean hunter, that backpeddals.

I would say that for 80% off all players (excluding PVE tanks and top-notch PVPers) turning the S key off is a better, especially as it offers a very good additional hotkey.

What I am unsure about is the dodge system. I hope that double strafe in one direction will trigger the dodge, but this will surely mean to learn some things anew. I guess most players will set Dodge to S.

#27 Lewis B

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:07 AM

I'll set dodge to a mouse button.  Double tapping left, right, up or down will also make you dodge.

There is still a neccesity to back peddle in GW2's PvP, it just depends on the context.

#28 DieWildeHilde

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:40 AM

Do we already know how jumping is working with the engine? Means, is the position updated client and server side throughout the jump or for example like in WoW - client side throughout the jump and server side only on landing?

#29 Kink

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:27 AM

DieWildeHilde said:

Like in basically any FPS game - anyone clicking and keyboard-turning will be outplayed by someone with strafe/jump skills.

Basic strafing is easy to learn however for slower players like myself:

- Unbind moving backwards

And voila, you have 80% of the possibilities a really fast player has and it takes no more than two hours to learn for a slow player.


Why? dont people know how annoying backpeddling is against classes with positional attacks? Strafing away from a thief may not necessarily remove your back from his daggers, but backpeddling and dodging backwards will.  I can circle strafe with the best of them, but just because it works in most situations doesnt make it the best option for all. If you cannot escape from someone, you may as well ensure the side of you they can see is your least vulnerable.

Backpeddling got a bad reputation because its how many bad players kind of "auto reacted" to being attacked. And it made no difference (i.e. someone shooting you with arrows and you walk backwards). But vs a class like a backstabby rogue, or Operative in SWTOR, well you cant outrun them, and turning your back to run away means stabhappy time for the rogue. Strafing wont help because your back is a 180 degree angle, so as long as you move away, he can still backstab you. But turning and backpeddling while facing the thief kinda forces him to not use backstab, which in many games is quite a powerful burst damage skill.

This is a pet peeve of mine =/. Though as I might play a dagger thief, please please, unbind your S key. Ill enjoy the free 100% crit backstabs when traitd.. nomnomnom your spines, delicious! =).

Edited by Kink, 10 February 2012 - 09:40 AM.


#30 DieWildeHilde

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:44 AM

You move slower backwards than forwards. Any competent thief will strafe and turn and remain on your back if you continue backpaddeling. Strafejumping or backstrafing is usually at 100% run speed, while backpadelling at 60%. You can strafe so that you face your enemy will running away from him. I will quote Neylio for this one:

Quote

http://www.gamefront...rafejumping_wmv
I was trying to explain this technique to an inexperienced friend of mine who was trying to get better, then I realized how hard it was to explain it to a new player without them seeing it done on someone else's screen.

It is a way to give yourself maximum avoidance (by facing) while moving away from the person at full speed, or also the same movements I would use to jump a stun.

In text it is, strafe right & turn right enough so that you can jump backwards then while in the air face forward, as soon as you are about to land turn left and strafe left and jump so that you are jumping backwards and then immediately face forwards again. You can alternate left, right, left, right or go right more or left more depending on where you need to move towards or how they are moving to try and get to your back.