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Repair mechanic in GW2? (Beta news)


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#121 Jooga

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

All I have to say is that you guys don't have very good memories. Every time something like this has happened, where some info gets out and the community explodes, ANet tells us how it is and it always turns out to be something good. So. Shut up and just enjoy the ride!

#122 Roq

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:55 PM

BDSMGirl said:

They've already stated that they don't like death to sting more than actually dying. Why does it need more kick when you've just lost a bunch of time?

The tension builds up when you're downed and fighting for your life and then when you finally kick the bucket, or rally back to your feet, you wipe the sweat off your brow and continue adventuring.

In GW1 you lose a % of health and power, whenever u die. If that didn't happen, you could never wipe and every mission would be trivially easy. For many that wouldn't make for very interesting game play.

#123 majoho

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:04 PM

elvinu said:

i agree with repairs. makes you think twice before diving into death, it also makes you to farm more.
So you think farming is GOOD?

Sorry to say it but I think the concept of this game went over your head.

#124 Asurac Heys

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:08 PM

if the repair system is similar to the one in skyrim i wont mind it terribly however if ill have to spend vast sums of gold on maintinaing my gear im not gonna be happy i can see why it would be a nice gold sink and why it would give incentive for the player to move more i still see this as becomming very annoying very fast.
the only reason i didnt mind the repair system in skyrim was that after gaining enough in the smithing attribute i could upgrade my gear beyond its ordianry 100% efficiency and that at master level u could just use one hammer  to do all the repairing .. id much rather see the death penalty system implemented than a repair system if i had to choose between either of the two.. but id prefer neither

#125 Shyanmar

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:11 PM

Seriously? I doubt that the tweets actually refer to GW2. I mean ... why would they tweet beta-related content with an NDA in place? Staff members even? Doesn't make a lick of sense.

#126 xarallei

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:12 PM

Geikamir said:

A reasonable money sink is the way point system. I am actively traveling somewhere, so I don't have to go out of my way just to maintain playing the game. Just like in the example I used, going to the bathroom would be useless and tedious in a video game.


Wait, they're going to charge us for using the way point system? Well that sucks. I was assuming it would be like GW1 and you could jump around all you want and not worry about silly fees. That was always very nice to me.

#127 Craywulf

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:13 PM

Jeez....one word caused a 7 page (so far) thread of doom. Get ahold of yourselves people. If you can't handle one word...I shudder the thought of tomorrow when there's a flood of information.

#128 Roq

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:14 PM

majoho said:

So you think farming is GOOD?

Sorry to say it but I think the concept of this game went over your head.

Any MMO must have mechanisms that require you to do some time consuming tasks in order to progress - otherwise you would slice through the game like s*** through a goose.

#129 xarallei

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:16 PM

I don't have too many issues with repair as long as the prices are cheap and not obscene. And as long as they don't charge for waypoint so I can jump to town to repair if need be.

#130 chromicat

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:18 PM

I am just laughing at this monstrosity this thread has become :)

Yes you get a tiny fee whenever you map travel, even when you die iirc.

#131 Brise Bon Bons

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:18 PM

While I don't think repairing armor as a system is a dealbreaker, I certainly do think it's a tired, lazy mechanic, and I would hope for something more interesting or innovative.

One thought about repairs being a gameplay tax: It's a good point, but to some degree that's what a goldsink needs to be, since more play time=more gold income. I don't know how else you'd effectively remove the money from the system in a way friendly to GW2's philosophy, without leaving loopholes for farmers to avoid paying the "tax".

By which I mean, realistically we won't see item destruction or government taxation in GW2, even though both of those are more interesting systems in my mind. Honestly if items are going to degrade and need repairs, I'd rather they just wear down over time until they become "fragile" and have a chance of breaking on death. But that really fits better in a sandbox game where emphasis is not put on collectable armor, so...

Honestly, I don't have a solution. I'd point to Guild and faction tithes to unlock perks, increased fast travel costs, purchasable environmental weapons (sort of like buff potions in other games, but more interactive), or temporary toys like fireworks, sparklers, and alcohol as more interesting avenues...

#132 BDSMGirl

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:20 PM

MisterB said:

Not all players agree with the developers in this removal of death penalty.

I have never thought of death penalties as fun, unless that's the entire point of the game, like a Roguelike of some sort. Actually, dying in games where you lose something is obscenely frustrating, dropping your entire inventory or experience or paths being closed off never to reopen, silly stuff like that is not fun.

Never have I heard of anyone who has fun dying unless it's to ruin someone else's fun. That happens to be really counter productive in cooperative games.

I don't even know anyone who would say dying without a penalty is a-okay and they're totally still having fun after they die, dying is frustrating and stops the flow of the game, but is necessary to ensure the game is actually difficult and can halt your progress once in a while.

Can you say that you like dying? You like dropping your inventory or your items breaking? Or losing all your levels? Or completely restarting the level when you were on the final boss?

If you can, I suggest you play more Roguelikes, they seem right up your, and like minded fellow's, alley's.

#133 squirrelmg

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:21 PM

Ameziel said:

I'm against the repair system. It's not fun in any way. It's the opposite and Anet said that they want us to have fun so why implement a system that is so annoying.

I agree with this person from the first page. Hopefully there won't be a repairing system because it is a pointless waste of time.

#134 Roq

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:38 PM

Brise Bon Bons said:

I'd rather they just wear down over time until they become "fragile" and have a chance of breaking on death.

I think that the whole idea of gear that breaks so that you have replace it is based on the mistaken idea that the value of gear, to it's owner, is based on its stats and that in order for a game to be able to give further rewards without inflating gear (to encourage players to engage in more tasks) it's necessary to take away the ones already given. But, GW1 has surely shown that it's not the stats that matter, but the rarity and prestige of the items. Now that can be an infinite scale without creating a power imbalance between players.

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BDSMGirl said:

I have never thought of death penalties as fun, unless that's the entire point of the game, like a Roguelike of some sort. Actually, dying in games where you lose something is obscenely frustrating, dropping your entire inventory or experience or paths being closed off never to reopen, silly stuff like that is not fun.

I agree - but what *is* fun is not dieing and it wouldn't be fun unless there was a real risk involved in dieing. For a chess master, playing chess against a complete novice isn't fun and that's fundamentally because there is no risk of losing and so no challenge.

#135 Martin Kerstein

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:45 PM

Morning.

Let me explain what is actually happening.

Every time you get defeated (so after you have been downed and failed to rally) one piece of your armor gets damaged. Once all your armor pieces are damaged, they will break - and you will have to repair or replace it.

It is very different from a durability system other games use, as you cannot avoid being hit by opponents - but you can avoid getting defeated by skilled play.

So if you never get defeated, you will never have to repair a single piece of armor.

Hope that helps, we have a blogpost about it coming soon that will get into more details.

#136 Mendicant

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:46 PM

Edit:  Ninja'd by MARTIN!  So that gives my post context. Oh well.

Thanks for the info, Martin!  That sounds like a very reasonable mechanic, and I'm looking forward to the blog post with more details.

Old comment:
Spoiler

Edited by Mendicant, 19 February 2012 - 06:48 PM.
A.R.E.N.A. Ninjas.


#137 Courage

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:48 PM

Martin Kerstein said:

Morning.

Let me explain what is actually happening.

Every time you get defeated (so after you have been downed and failed to rally) one piece of your armor gets damaged. Once all your armor pieces are damaged, they will break - and you will have to repair or replace it.

It is very different from a durability system other games use, as you cannot avoid being hit by opponents - but you can avoid getting defeated by skilled play.

So if you never get defeated, you will never have to repair a single piece of armor.

Hope that helps, we have a blogpost about it coming soon that will get into more details.


This actually sounds good to me. Reward for skillful play !

#138 Alot

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:50 PM

Martin Kerstein said:

Morning.

Let me explain what is actually happening.

Every time you get defeated (so after you have been downed and failed to rally) one piece of your armor gets damaged. Once all your armor pieces are damaged, they will break - and you will have to repair or replace it.

It is very different from a durability system other games use, as you cannot avoid being hit by opponents - but you can avoid getting defeated by skilled play.

So if you never get defeated, you will never have to repair a single piece of armor.

Hope that helps, we have a blogpost about it coming soon that will get into more details.

Thank you Martin. I wish you many luck on your attempts at clearing up misconceptions.

#139 MisterB

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:52 PM

BDSMGirl said:


I count Demon's Souls and Dark Souls as 2 of my all time favorite games, and those have harsh penalties on death. Some players enjoy challenging gameplay. Demon's Souls in particular was much harsher than GW1; you lose at least half your maximum health, and all of your souls, which were a shared resource equivalent to gold and experience points. This death penalty and perceived difficulty drove many players away, to their detriment.

Death penalties encourage me to perform better and improve as a player, so I prefer games that punish death. I don't really like dropping all items, though; that pissed me off in Diablo. I'm not a fan of roguelikes, if you mean permanent death. I'd just abuse or use hacks for those sorts of games, or not play them.

Ah, Martin's post is helpful. That's a pretty light death penalty.

Edited by MisterB, 19 February 2012 - 07:00 PM.
spoiler quote


#140 Roq

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

Martin Kerstein said:

Morning.

Let me explain what is actually happening.

Every time you get defeated (so after you have been downed and failed to rally) one piece of your armor gets damaged. Once all your armor pieces are damaged, they will break - and you will have to repair or replace it.

It is very different from a durability system other games use, as you cannot avoid being hit by opponents - but you can avoid getting defeated by skilled play.

So if you never get defeated, you will never have to repair a single piece of armor.

Hope that helps, we have a blogpost about it coming soon that will get into more details.

Thanks for the clarification. That's awesome, exactly the kind of system I was hoping for.

#141 ShadowABCXYZ

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:59 PM

Martin Kerstein said:

Morning.

Let me explain what is actually happening.

Every time you get defeated (so after you have been downed and failed to rally) one piece of your armor gets damaged. Once all your armor pieces are damaged, they will break - and you will have to repair or replace it.

It is very different from a durability system other games use, as you cannot avoid being hit by opponents - but you can avoid getting defeated by skilled play.

So if you never get defeated, you will never have to repair a single piece of armor.

Hope that helps, we have a blogpost about it coming soon that will get into more details.

Well there we go, this sounds far more interesting than the same old durability we see in other games.

What do you mean by only *one* piece of armour being damaged? Is this random?

----------

MisterB said:

I count Demon's Souls and Dark Souls as 2 of my all time favorite games, and those have harsh penalties on death. Some players enjoy challenging gameplay. Demon's Souls in particular was much harsher than GW1; you lose at least half your maximum health, and all of your souls, which were a shared resource equivalent to gold and experience points. This death penalty and perceived difficulty drove many players away, to their detriment.

Death penalties encourage me to perform better and improve as a player, so I prefer games that punish death. I don't really like dropping all items, though; that pissed me off in Diablo. I'm not a fan of roguelikes, if you mean permanent death. I'd just abuse or use hacks for those sorts of games, or not play them.

Ah, Martin's post is helpful. That's a pretty light death penalty.

Yes, but you can regain your lost souls/humanity by going to your bloodstain, hence rewarding skillful play.

Skillfull play isnt simply not dying, it is learning from your mistakes.

#142 Own Age Myname

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

As long as it's minimal cost, I'm ok with what Martin says :)

#143 Aljasha

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

I don't like it. That's like ammunition for fireweapons and bows. "So, you forgot to fill all your inventory with bows? That's not very skillful!". Yeah, right.

You will not be able to avoid being defeated at all, that's delusional und you know it. Just watch pvp, people are getting defeated all the time. I'd really hate to be discriminated against statwise due to dying. That's like playing FPS games and seeing your weapon's recoil increased with each death.

Wow, that's the worst idea I've seen in a while.

#144 Own Age Myname

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

Aljasha said:

I don't like it. That's like ammunition for fireweapons and bows. "So, you forgot to fill all your inventory with bows? That's not very skillful!". Yeah, right.

You will not be able to avoid being defeated at all, that's delusional und you know it. Just watch pvp, people are getting defeated all the time. I'd really hate to be discriminated against statwise due to dying. That's like playing FPS games and seeing your weapon's recoil increased with each death.

Wow, that's the worst idea I've seen in a while.

You shouldn't lose durability in PvP, that'd be beyond stupid. So don't expect that.

#145 ShadowABCXYZ

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:03 PM

Own Age Myname said:

As long as it's minimal cost, I'm ok with what Martin says :)

Nah, it should either be quite a severe hit to your gold (level dependent of course) this makes people be more careful, and will increase the focus on the community aspect of helping other players, playing with others, and reviving.

#146 Aljasha

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:05 PM

Own Age Myname said:

You shouldn't lose durability in PvP, that'd be beyond stupid. So don't expect that.

Since Martin kept it general, it means it will work like that in all formats.

#147 Own Age Myname

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:06 PM

ShadowABCXYZ said:

Nah, it should either be quite a severe hit to your gold (level dependent of course) this makes people be more careful, and will increase the focus on the community aspect of helping other players, playing with others, and reviving.

That'd ridiculous, so ANet would do a total 360 on their "we want minimal death penalty" statements?  I expect it to be minimal money (like around the price of waypoint traveling, depending on level). If not, there will be a shitstorm by many fans.

Aljasha said:

Since Martin kept it general, it means it will work like that in all formats.

Why in the world would durability go to PvP though? Seriously, PvE needs a goldsink, not PvP. You don't earn gold (that I know of) in PvP, so why would you need to pay to repair armors? That means PvP players would have to play PvE to repair armors.

#148 Roq

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:08 PM

Aljasha said:

I don't like it. That's like ammunition for fireweapons and bows. "So, you forgot to fill all your inventory with bows? That's not very skillful!". Yeah, right.

You will not be able to avoid being defeated at all, that's delusional und you know it. Just watch pvp, people are getting defeated all the time. I'd really hate to be discriminated against statwise due to dying. That's like playing FPS games and seeing your weapon's recoil increased with each death.

Wow, that's the worst idea I've seen in a while.

Martin *didn't* say that when your armor is damaged you lose stats - just that when all your armor is damaged you will need to repair it. Presumably, if you don't repair it the armor might break and then require probably more costly repairs.

Sounds like a very sensible system to me.

#149 Kristinez

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:08 PM

Ok, so if a piece of armor breaks it doesnt get destroyed right? It wont just disappear from your inventory like some games do? I can just repair it and put it back on?

I'm fine with that. As long as armor doesnt break in pvp. You could get defeated 5 times in 10 minutes and then what? You have to stop? What if you're in a conquest match? That's silly.

#150 MisterB

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:09 PM

Aljasha said:

You will not be able to avoid being defeated at all, that's delusional und you know it. Just watch pvp, people are getting defeated all the time. I'd really hate to be discriminated against statwise due to dying.

The mechanic only punishes repeated defeats in a sequence, and you can reset it at any time before the end by repairing your stuff so it doesn't break. Structured PvP is a non-issue, since gear is all equal. WvW may be affected if you favor repeated unskillful play, or if no one revives you . Personally, I don't enjoy the role of playing cannon fodder, so I'd revise my strategy before item breaking becomes a factor.

Edited by MisterB, 19 February 2012 - 07:11 PM.