1281 replies to this topic

[Matsy]

chelmo said:

Essentially from what I can tell, Simon didn't like the fact that they couldn't just roll through everything with no forethought or strategy and so he then bashes the dungeon(s). ANet said the 5 man dungeons were the hardest content in the game for a reason. I've seen other groups do just fine against The Lovers, so it's not the game, it's the player/group and they're simply not putting any thought into what they have to do nor what build they bring to the table in order to accomplish the task at hand.

Agreed, they didn't have a clue what they where doing, Lewis started to get the right idea by using boulders alot but he didn't do it properly, not thinking about it  at all.

The 5man dungeons are meant to be hard that's the entire point, this isn't WoW heroic face roll.
People like Simon and Lewis (the majority of the player base) should not stand a chance in the dungeons unless they become better players and plan ahead.

[Dark Saviour]

Actually, the story-mode dungeons aren't supposed to be particularly hard, as I recall...

[DaS_BrOt_2MaL]

The second Dungeonspotlight only emphazises how important boss-borders are in the game (to me). Zerging a boss should NOT be an option...

[Matsy]

Dark Saviour said:

Actually, the story-mode dungeons aren't supposed to be particularly hard, as I recall...

They are not hard if you actually know what your doing, look at the MikeB vidoes etc.

People who expect to just faceroll the story mode without any thought, should not be able to do it, how its supposed to be.
The story mode requires basic skill and teamwork, which alot of people lack.

[ShadowABCXYZ]

Matsy said:

They are not hard if you actually know what your doing, look at the MikeB vidoes etc.

People who expect to just faceroll the story mode without any thought, should not be able to do it, how its supposed to be.
The story mode requires basic skill and teamwork, which alot of people lack.

Yep, it is the group that makes the dungeon look the way it does.

I also do not enjoy when people say "From this video it seems X feature is Y"

People were saying dungeons look faceroll in MikeB's video.

People say they are too hard in this video.

People say X class is OP in PvP.

All these statements are very clearly caused by the person who is playing, a good player will make everything in the game look Easy or OP on video, you simply have to play the game to assess for yourself. ;)

[Volkon]

Note the ANet people with them were giving them minimal advice at first too, where the Mike B group was given more direct information on how to beat the Lovers.

[chelmo]

Volkon said:

Note the ANet people with them were giving them minimal advice at first too, where the Mike B group was given more direct information on how to beat the Lovers.

This is very true.

[SilverShadow]

So I really like the Yogscast, but somehow Lewis blames the game just because he's VERY bad at it.

I know they didn't have much time to learn playing correctly, but in almost every video I'm thinking "LEWIS WHAT ARE YOU DOING, ARE YOU KIDDING ME" (e. g. warrior video).
However that happens in most of the other games Yogscast is playing too (I remember the BF3 MP matches :p).

[Sard]

The beta testers had the game in their hands only briefly, so they probably aren't playing as superbly right off the bat as everyone here would.

So if we could steer away from "they are terrible players" and perhaps focus more on the game, it would be splendid. And classy.

Cheers.

[Cracken]

ShadowABCXYZ said:

Yep, it is the group that makes the dungeon look the way it does.

I also do not enjoy when people say "From this video it seems X feature is Y"

People were saying dungeons look faceroll in MikeB's video.

People say they are too hard in this video.

People say X class is OP in PvP.

All these statements are very clearly caused by the person who is playing, a good player will make everything in the game look Easy or OP on video, you simply have to play the game to assess for yourself. ;)

This is why people shouldn't bash things like the trait system, and other shitload of things. And this is why ArenaNet doesn't take the forums as a viable feedback. People need to play the game to give proper feedback. Unless people is really bad at the game and bashes the game and not their skill.. then.. well, just ignore these kind of feedback and improve the learning curve.

[rd1102]

they probably should cue us in on how to seperate the lovers.

or more handholding
ie: which skills we have that can actually knock them back
pick up rocks and throw it at them

not tweak the difficulty downwards but more hints/cues to help us improve.
so as we progress along the story and as our level grows , so does our skill level.


this is STORY mode after all , the mode which everyone(even newbies) are supposed to be able to complete.

hard stuff should be placed in explore mode.

[Matsy]

All the boulders around is pretty obviously there to knock them away from each other and put them in a place you and AoE nuke them (corridors) and to stop them from casting, there's no need for "hand holders"
Also no, "newbies" should NOT be able to complete story mode without thought, you should have a basic understanding of your profession, different mechanics and your team.

Edited by Matsy, 03 March 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[Cailais]

Looks challenging enough.  Worth recalling that the yogcast crew have only a very limited amount of experience with GW2

"What are my knock back abilities?!"

With more experience I think most players will find a path through this content and it looks hella fun :D

C.

[AzureWatcher]

Matsy said:

All the boulders around is pretty obviously there to knock them away from each other and put them in a place you and AoE nuke them (corridors) and to stop them from casting, there's no need for "hand holders"
Also no, "newbies" should NOT be able to complete story mode without thought, you should have a basic understanding of your profession, different mechanics and your team.

This. It is a DUNGEON, not a charity office. You should never be given anything. Nothing.

Because at level 30 you should have a grasp on how your profession handles. If you don't then you have issues that need to be checked by some sort of therapist.

[IDarko]

MikeB's team had higher level charakters from what i could see, so while they were being downscaled, they still had a bit advantage. Also, they actually managed to seperate the lovers during the whole fight.

Anyways, i really liked the dungeon videos of Yogscast.

[Gyr]

an sun said:

After watching that I understand why Lewis didn't like the dungeon at all. It seemed like they have 0 control over the fight with the lovers. even the devs didn;t really know how any effective strategy. Which is kind of dissapoiting.

I would put money on the fact that the devs in the group knew exactly how to do it. However, there's no point in just telling them straight forward and ordering them around (especially when being recorded for public viewing).

This wasn't just a press preview. It was also a beta test. They need to see how people handle the dungeon without the answers being spoon-fed to them. Notice how they waited a while before revealing that you have to put a boulder on the pressure plate to keep the door open. OF COURSE they know how to do that, but they were letting Simon and Lewis figure it out first.

[rodasta]

Dungeons should be hard indeed even for story mode, I think doing the dungeons is optional. But I'm not sure, anybody?

[edan1000]

OMG! Crying+waypoint=stuck...

[upier]

The most shocking part was the dev suggesting to glitch the foes. **** that shit.

Also, I was laughing out loud when the ginger teddy got Rampage and managed to get himself stuck. THAT LAUGH! ^^

[Jonas]

rodasta said:

Dungeons should be hard indeed even for story mode, I think doing the dungeons is optional. But I'm not sure, anybody?

I disagree.
Only endgame non-story dungeons should be hard.

The dungeons in between leveling shouldn't be so challenging or we'll just skip them with alts.

[rodasta]

Jonas said:

I disagree.
Only endgame non-story dungeons should be hard.

The dungeons in between leveling shouldn't be so challenging or we'll just skip them with alts.

From what I have seen the end-game starts right away, guild wars 2 isn't the game where you can eat your pizza and steamroll all the content with 1 hand on the keyboard or mouse ;) I've also heard that story mode is not as hard as explorer mode and also these guys doing the dungeon skipped level from 1 to 30, so they don't have the experience of a normal level 30 character would have. They didn't know how to knock back the bosses in the end and therefore failed the dungeons last part.

EDIT: But anybody know if story mode dungeons are optional or not to complete your personal story?

Edited by rodasta, 03 March 2012 - 05:04 PM.

[Warfart]

Y'all are kidding yourselves if you think Anet is going to make story dungeons hard.  No way Anet is going to do that.  They want the majority of their customers happy which means dungeons that people can complete with few issues.

Story mode for the masses and exploration for the people who want a challenge.

----------

All dungeons are optional.  Personal story is instanced with Destiny's Edge members showing up for time to time.  Story dungeons involve DE again and exploration dungeons have 3 paths that cover the aftermath of the story mode.

[Grit]

rodasta said:

EDIT: But anybody know if story mode dungeons are optional or not to complete your personal story?

All dungeons (including story mode) are completely seperate from your personal story. You aren't forced to do them.

However, we may find that the final boss (zhaitan) is fought in a dungeon. If that's the case, my previous statement isn't 100% true.

[Trise]

Remember also, most people only achieved about level 16-ish in the game proper. They skipped over 14 levels of practice and mid-level content.

[Nightcover]

edan1000 said:

OMG! Crying+waypoint=stuck...

Yea, I encourage people to try that the first day they play the game to see if they've actually fixed it.

[Matsy]

Jonas said:

I disagree.
Only endgame non-story dungeons should be hard.

The dungeons in between leveling shouldn't be so challenging or we'll just skip them with alts.

This is getting silly.
The dungeons are not hard, its players who are bad making it look hard.

The story mode dungeons are perfect atm.
Not every tom dick and harry should be able to do it, I dont give a toss if it's just story mode, you should still have a basic understanding of what the hell you are doing, this isn't WoW heroic you know.

[Niamus]

Love the way they scream when something cute comes up :3

[Mr. G]

upier said:

The most shocking part was the dev suggesting to glitch the foes. **** that shit.

Did I miss that part...?

[LawlAmgad]

Soooo... everyone complains that GW2 isn't hard enough and now when two people try to do a dungeon and fail horribly because they weren't doing it correctly, everyone screams out that it needs to be toned down?

Make up your minds, I for one welcome this challenge.

[Dark Saviour]

Matsy said:

The story mode dungeons are perfect atm.
Not every tom dick and harry should be able to do it, I dont give a toss if it's just story mode, you should still have a basic understanding of what the hell you are doing, this isn't WoW heroic you know.

Honestly, seeing how much trouble people have seemed to have with the Lovers fight, it may indeed be too hard. Especially when you look at how fast their health dropped at times. Even when they got a rough idea of what to do and Lewis was going to start using boulders properly, he was downed so quickly from the sheer damage output that it didn't work.

From what I recall of MikeB's vid, they managed to luck out and get Ralena to focus on Rytlock pretty much from the start while Vassar was kept towards the back, giving them a massive advantage. However, from all the vids I've seen in general, there doesn't seem to be a consistent way to do this, as they'll generally take the first chance they get to converge on a target. So, there seems to be a bit of an element of luck determining how hard the fight ends up being.