[Vidal]

As for the villains in GW2, I don:t find myself particularly motivated to defeat the dragons. They seem more like primal forces/animals to me, though destructive ones. The one villain that I can:t wait to take down is Palawa Joko. I guess it:s silly to have a grudge against a character in a game, but I:ve got one for him.

And the charr :mad:

Edited by Vidal, 15 March 2010 - 04:18 AM.

[jayson]

Vidal said:

The one villain that I can't wait to take down is Palawa Joko. I guess it's silly to have a grudge against a character in a game, but I've got one for him.

My prediction is that when/if you finaly meet up with him, you'll be thanking him due to the fact that he's considered a hero in Elona for fighting the dragon and maintaining a semblence of order in that region.

[Ben]

Palawa Joko is a great villain, in that he's actually got some depth to him. He's a bit of a Mussolini figure; charismatic, thoroughly despicable in some ways, and yet admirable in others.

[Corsair]

They are not what I would consider animals or primal forces, though their power does rival them. The Great Destroyer was a general of Primordus, who is a dragon, does that sound like something an animal would have.

As for a Palawa Joko, I believe that we will ally with and/or fight him. He may put a semblance of order in the region but he does that through oppression. He has enslaved the Ossa clan and destroyed the Sunspears. He does not fight the Dragon for anything other than his desire for conquest and power.

[draxynnic]

My attitude towards Palawa is that he's a threat. He had a chance to live peacefully with his neighbours after GW1, and he blew it. As a result, everyone who ends up on or near his borders has good reason to be eyeing him warily - the guy has no reason to stop at Elona and has already demonstrated the patience and propensity for long-range plotting to suggest that showing a peaceful face for X many years or decades doesn't mean he isn't up to something.

Regarding the argument that he united Elona against the dragons - there's currently no reason to believe that he knew the dragons would awake, nor that such an invasion was the only possible way to unite Elona. Unless we receive new information that indicates otherwise, Palawa simply invaded Elona because he had a grudge... and because he could.

[Vidal]

Ben said:

Palawa Joko is a great villain, in that he's actually got some depth to him. He's a bit of a Mussolini figure; charismatic, thoroughly despicable in some ways, and yet admirable in others.

Yeah, there:s the comedy aspect, and a great backstory to give him some depth. Personality is something that the dragons can:t match (as far as we know). It says a lot that he was basically given a second chance and went right back to wreaking havoc. I:m looking forward to that expansion, to say the least.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Quote

posted by jayson
My prediction is that when/if you finally meet up with him, you'll be thanking him due to the fact that he's considered a hero in Elona for fighting the dragon and maintaining a semblance of order in that region.

/agree

My best guess is that Kralkatorrik will head straight for the opening (or sealed entrance) to the realm of torment or discover the seal the way dragons are traditionally attracted to strong magic. I don't think the entrance will be fully closed (sealed perhaps) although I also don't think Joko wants anyone near that area either (too much uncontrolled risk).

Joko will have two possibly three concerns on his domain. Kralkatorrik, Zhaitan, and the Rebel Alliance (being the dark emperor and all). If Kralkatorrik could enter the RoT the possibility of his threat to the world just went up exponentially, since very little could fully escape his malevolence even in the afterlife.

If you can imagine recycled evil even the tormented creatures becoming even more twisted at his command you would understand the full threat Kralkatorrik could impose. Considering what Zhaitan could do we should be ever more fearful of the possibilities of Kralkatorrik and what is near his location. Whereas Joko might be wise enough to know what his limitations are and avoid the Realm of Torment altogether.

[Kyo]

Did I miss something? Why the hate on Palawa? He was a pretty chill dude and even "helped" us in Nightfall.

[Corsair]

Palawa escaped by pure chance, that Abaddon would weaken his cage at that moment. He had no intention of acting peacefully, and he only helped us because it benefited him. I'm certain that after his Undead Army was once again under his control, he set out on conquest again. Although, I find him a much more "human" antagonist than most. As for the dragons not having personality, I prefer it that way. Their thought process from being so old is probably beyond us. (speculation, of course)

[Kyo]

Corsair said:

Palawa escaped by pure chance, that Abaddon would weaken his cage at that moment. He had no intention of acting peacefully, and he only helped us because it benefited him. I'm certain that after his Undead Army was once again under his control, he set out on conquest again. Although, I find him a much more "human" antagonist than most. As for the dragons not having personality, I prefer it that way. Their thought process from being so old is probably beyond us. (speculation, of course)

I see, and +1 on how you see the Dragons. Same here, too me they are raw strenght,pure destruction,war machines,etc. Thats why I hope they don't get a voice. I just want some RAWWWWRRRR:devil:

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

in the end who do you fight, the evil you know or the evil that shares your interests and goals. For instance if you are the Americans and British, do you fight Hitler, or Stalin?, both were evil and massacred hundreds of thousands but if you ally with one the other can be defeated. In this case Hitler is Kralkatorrik and Stalin is Joko.

[Corsair]

I would not mind them having a voice, think of the Reapers from Mass Effect. So alien in thought and composition, how could you know how they rap their head around it. I assume they are related on some level to Glint, and she has a voice. I would much like them to have one as well.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Quote

posted by Corsair
I would not mind them having a voice, think of the Reapers from Mass Effect. So alien in thought and composition, how could you know how they rap their head around it. I assume they are related on some level to Glint, and she has a voice. I would much like them to have one as well.

Tell me would you speak to ants before you destroy their home? Why would these elder dragons ever bother to speak to us? We are an infestation to them a blight that sits upon their property, termites in the barn that need to be eradicated so they might build their summer homes and grow their gardens how they see fit.

[Corsair]

Ego, no creature that powerful could possibly not have an ego. If you knew those ants could hear you, would you not taunt them, flaunt your absolute power over them in their face before snuffing their brief candles?

[Corsair]

Unless Joko sees an alliance to be beneficial to him, he won't make one. I'm sure he would sooner kill us and add us to his horde of undead. In this case, Joko is the lesser evil, Kralkatorrik is a threat to all. I think we will run into a similar thing to the White Mantle in Prophecies, we ally in the beginning for a while, and then we kick his dehydrated ass.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Quote

posted by Corsair
Unless Joko sees an alliance to be beneficial to him, he won't make one. I'm sure he would sooner kill us and add us to his horde of undead. In this case, Joko is the lesser evil, Kralkatorrik is a threat to all. I think we will run into a similar thing to the White Mantle in Prophecies, we ally in the beginning for a while, and then we kick his dehydrated ass.

That's where your dead wrong, he has no allies with two powerful opposing forces and an organized rebellion at his doorstep. That is a bad situation no matter how you look at it. He may stab us in the back afterwords BUT he will take an alliance if he can get one.

Edited by Tzu Qui Jinn, 15 March 2010 - 05:58 AM.

[Vidal]

jayson said:

My prediction is that when/if you finaly meet up with him, you'll be thanking him due to the fact that he's considered a hero in Elona for fighting the dragon and maintaining a semblence of order in that region.

He:s already been revealed as a villain, so I won:t be thanking him. Also, Anet may in the future, but as of yet Anet hasn:t said anything about him fighting the dragon or keeping it at bay. And his order in the region has been a massive famine and enslaving lots of folks.

Tzu Qui Jinn said:

Tell me would you speak to ants before you destroy their home? Why would these elder dragons ever bother to speak to us? We are an infestation to them a blight that sits upon their property, termites in the barn that need to be eradicated so they might build their summer homes and grow their gardens how they see fit.

I don:t talk to ants.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Quote

I don:t talk to ants.

I don't either, which is why I don't expect these Elder Dragons to ever speak to us. At least not in a language we would understand outside of "die!".

[Corsair]

So, why don't we help the rebellion, overthrow Joko, and then turn our eyes to Kralkatorrik? His power in Elona is very solidified at this point. Sure, there is a resistance, but Joko has his hand wrapped around the throat of most of Elona. I can see Joko using us very easily, but an alliance, is something else entirely. It all boils down to how Joko fares at the time we come in.

[Vidal]

Tzu Qui Jinn said:

I don't either, which is why I don't expect these Elder Dragons to ever speak to us. At least not in a language we would understand outside of "die!".

Doh! I meant to say that ants never talk to me, i.e. your analogy doesn:t work.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Must be a language cultural barrier misunderstanding because my analogy does work.

Quote

posted by Corsair
So, why don't we help the rebellion, overthrow Joko, and then turn our eyes to Kralkatorrik? His power in Elona is very solidified at this point. Sure, there is a resistance, but Joko has his hand wrapped around the throat of most of Elona. I can see Joko using us very easily, but an alliance, is something else entirely. It all boils down to how Joko fares at the time we come in.

Because Joko has two things we would need. An organized military and support structure. His structure is solidified around him and him alone. If we cap him everything falls apart as it did with the Battle of Jahai. With Chaos Krakatorrik would only gain ground and strength.

You must understand that there is a real BIG threat that Krakatorrik could impose that is larger than any other Dragon, Assuming the Realm of Torment is a priority conquest goal for Krakatorrik.

[Vidal]

Do ants talk to you? What do they say?

[Corsair]

Vidal is saying your analogy is incorrect because ants can't understand us. Jinn is stating that we are merely so far below the dragons that, if they could, they wouldn't want to speak to us.

I'm sure the rebellion has its own structure that could be used. That, and I'm sure the Order of Whispers has infiltrated Joko's command structure.

Edited by Corsair, 15 March 2010 - 06:25 AM.

[Corsair]

I'm saying their ego is so high, they can't help but taunt us.

Them is referring to the elder dragons. Think of a kid laughing manically as he burns ants with a magnifying glass. He is going to taunt them with his absolute power over them.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Quote

Corsair
I'm saying their ego is so high, they can't help but taunt us.

and I'm saying their EGO is higher, even a taunt would be beneath them. A taunt would be an acknowledgment of cognitive competence. I don't taunt the food I'm going to eat I just kill it, cut it up and eat it.

[Corsair]

The food you eat doesn't understand you though. (Vidal's argument)

Don't tell me I'm the only one here to taunt and torture gummy bears before devouring them...

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

o.k. I won't tell you, but I then again I don't taunt gummy bears either. It's beneath me, my EGO is just to dam high for it.

[Vidal]

On top of that, we're the ants that are going to be killing these dragons. I'm assuming their egos won't be so high as they're dying. They could have a dramatic death scene. Not unheard of.

Anyway, I do hope the dragons have some personality to them. If they don't, and it is mostly a creative choice, it seems like a missed opportunity for some depth or story telling.

As for Palawa, it seems that we'll be liberating Vabbi, probably restoring the river, and restoring the Ossa clan's reputation and the Sunspears i.e. fighting Palawa Joko. Now I just need to figure out a way to get revenge on the charr for the searing, and for being so annoying.

[Ben]

Corsair said:

Unless Joko sees an alliance to be beneficial to him, he won't make one. I'm sure he would sooner kill us and add us to his horde of undead.

Actually, no.

He seems quite content to have living humans in his domain, so long as they know their place as loyal subjects to him. Even rewards those that serve him well.

He's a tyrant all the way through, but part of what makes him interesting is that he doesn't rule by fear alone. It's quite possible to imagine the inhabitants of his domain as more than just fuel for his war machine.

[Olvi]

I usually don't think too much about what I'm killing...if it shows as a red spot on the radar and drops loot, might as well fire an arrow between its eyes.

On a serious note, I'd have to agree that dragons are pretty freaking overdone by now...I've been killing dragons since the 90's, would be nice to see something else for a change. Demons for starters...considering their popularity, it's odd that dragons often beat them as the "main evil". I love dragons personally, they're my favorite thing to draw too, but at least for once make them allies instead of enemies or something?

Demogorgon anyone? Now that was a nice battle...even with Cloud Kill overload.