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#1 the crimson blade

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:26 PM

not sure if this should go here or the vigil, but which professions do you think will be really good in wvw?

Or, because all professions have the potential to be good at everything, which professions combinations and setups do you think will be very good

Now that I think about it, it's basicly wvw theorycrafting :P

#2 Miteshu

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:33 PM

Good at what in wvw?

Good at being in the frontlines? Warriors because they have the highest survivability.

#3 the crimson blade

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

well good at everything, ill give some examples:

Hammer warrior/ mace and shield, with defensive banner, endure pain, and dolyak signet, traited for defense. I would use him to sorta tank while doing lots of aoe hammer cc, and i have my defensive set with mace and hammer.

Or you could have a ranger traited in maksmanship for standing back witha  longbow and pew pew-ing.

Or even you could theorycraft groups, like a few elementalists and rangers with longbows. the lementalist lure enemies somewhere, then cast a line of fire or static field, and the longbow rangers come out of no where and all rapid fire through it.

It's wvw, anything's possible!

#4 Bunzaga

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:43 PM

From what I have seen and experienced in previous games...

The best profession is the one that can put their own agenda aside, and work as a team to accomplish goals.

There will be some people who naturally 'float to the top' in WvWvW.  I had a hard time accepting this at first in DAoC.  A lot of people on these games don't want to listen to orders, or think they are smarter than everyone else (myself included).  Arguing and 'size' competitions does not win battles.  Teamwork and self sacrifice does.

It would be cool if I could be one of those people who strategize and help direct the flow of battle, but if I am not, I will make sure I do my best to follow the orders of my squad leader, and if he says to go kill myself as a distraction, so the MF (Main Force) can push through a wall, you bet I'll do it.

Maybe this is what people are having such a hard time grasping with WvWvW.  You are no longer a solo player, playing on a big game with a lot of other solo players.  When you enter WvWvW, you are on a TEAM.  What you do, say, and the choices you make, could effect your teams success.  If you create lots of drama, people will just put you on ignore and you may end up having to switch servers, just to have a second chance...

That is not to say this game is not for you.  There is still competitive PvP, for the elitist soloers who like rankings and comparing sizes.

I hope you get what I am saying.  Professions, and such don't matter as much as attitude and teamwork in WvWvW.  Just do the best you can with what you have, and you will be successful.

#5 the crimson blade

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:50 PM

i more was just curious to the builds people will be using in wvw, or cool squad comps and stuff. i completely understand its a team game, and i'm more of a follower than a leader. I have no problem doing what my guild leader says without question. I was just wondering what you guys think you'll be running in wvw

#6 Nephele

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:32 PM

I'll be running a warrior. Because I want to play a warrior, and I'll find things to do in WvW that my warrior is good at.

It's not like you have to be the ultimate keep assaulting profession or anything.

#7 Hirsty

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:34 PM

They will ALL be VERY good at their own things.
I will be rolling a Mesmer, but for PvP, I think they are the weakest in 1v1.
But the strongest in 3v3+

#8 Bunzaga

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:37 PM

Ahh, there is a lot of 'ranged' combat in WvWvW.  Ground to walls, walls to ground, bridges, choke points, zerg vs zerg, etc.

So ranged people may have an advantage over melee, in groups that are moving around a lot.  However, if a pure melee is good at coordinating siege weapons, then I think they could be just as viable.

I also think the team that has more 'help my friends' type skills will shine.  Aoe buffs, aoe heals, aoe 'remove conditions', this sort of thing.

So ranged and support is where its at for the 'zerg vs zerg' mentality.

I am hoping we get some 'roaming groups' like we did in DAoC though, where you run around the map, looking for other groups and do mini battles to wipe each other out.

#9 8800123

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:03 PM

For every game, its always the same. Its the player that make a particular build/class strong. While certain class may be better at different roles in theory, I dont think there will be a big advantage to 1 side that would make a bad player do better than a good player.

#10 Hirsty

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:06 PM

There will ALWAYS be 1 class which is the 'Farm' class etc.

#11 the crimson blade

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:58 PM

hmm, i need to work on how i ask these questions, maybe i should edit the original post.

I wasn't trying for a "so what's the meta gonna be", more like "what do you think you guys will enjoy running most"

Just trying to break the chain of "why wvw will work/won't work" threads

#12 Epic_Bear_Guy

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:07 PM

Personally the guardian in my opinion. I've seen a single guardian tank multiple players in a pvp vid before, they would be perfect for holding down keeps until reinforcements show up. Not only that but, good defense can often lead to good offensive opportunities, as well as victories. I don't know if you've ever faced an opponent that seems impenetrable before but it can be quite frustrating and exhausting.

#13 Lyssa's Muse

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:11 PM

You can already see some interesting roles developing in the videos, such as Eles healing the Golems (their health doesn't regen out of combat), Mesmers using Portals to get allies places quickly or Engineers holding down positions with turrets.

#14 Obscure One

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:12 PM

@ OP: Perhaps "What professions will be really good at this aspect in WvW?" is a much better question to ask.

Each profession does something that is very handy in WvW, and each can be widely varied within themselves to potentially produce some really remarkable results when paired up with other classes. To explain the vast array of combinations, tactics, and scenarios would require me to write an exceedingly long post, so I'll choose one to explain the notion:
  • Resource Camp Raiding Party: 5-10 players
    • Swiftness: move from camp to camp quickly
    • Might: optimize DPS to take out camps before defenders can arrive
    • Stealth: avoid detection from larger groups while en-route

This strategy would favor a group with party wide Swiftness available through multiple professions, party wide Stealth via a Mesmer or Thief, and party wide Might which while also provided by many professions should also be combined with other DPS boosts such as the Guardians Virtue of Justice.

Now in that light you can piece together the right professions for this specific job. You'll need to bring a Mesmer or Thief (or both) for stealth, and you may perhaps lean towards a Guardian or Ranger (or both) for the swiftness and might. Depending on how you plan to mesh the synergy of the professions together you can figure quite a few things out in terms of "the right tool for the job".

In short all professions will be really good in WvW. However only certain combinations of them will be really good at specific aspects of WvW.

#15 Scribbles

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

From my experience with large scale PVP, I'd say that the most useful specializations (not professions) will be the people who specialize in mobility, AoE damage, AoE healing and AoE control.

Mobility is important, because you need to be able to respond quickly when an objective comes under attack.

Area of Effect damage, healing and control are important, because you're going to be dealing with lots and lots of people. If you start singletarget bursting them down, they will return or be back on their feet before you finish everyone off.

Every profession seems to have good potential for WvWvW, with some a bit more than others due to class design (warriors, elementalists, mesmers).

#16 PoisonTaco

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:02 PM

If some professions are not very good at WvW then the devs didn't make WvW properly.

#17 Kymeric

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:32 PM

I'm very up in the air about this.  I hope that a couple of BWEs will help me decide what character I'll most like to play.

Thief- I'm excited about the idea of playing harassment and assassin, hopping in and out of combat and doing spike damage/condition spreading.  A lot of this will depend if I can get the hang of survival with a squishier class in the middle of mass combat chaos, or if I can find a small group to run with and avoid the zerg, going for smaller objectives.

Warrior- I've never stuck with a warrior in other games, but I think that was because I eventually become frustrated by the lack of a legitimate ranged option.  It might be nice to be a sturdier profession when the AoE is flying eveyrwhere, and the option to be able to engage with rifle/longbow before closing distance might make me stick with it this time.  Especially as a furious little Asura. :D

Guardian- I've always been interested in support classes, but had difficulty finding a group to run with consistently.  In WvW, with massive amounts of automatic allies, it might be nice to be in there swinging and supporting at the same time.

Ele- I'm very intrigued by the possibility of a D/D lightning focused Ele.  While all the other eles are raining AoE fire down on the enemy, it could be awesome to be the freaky clothy that is porting into the middle of the enemies and unleashing melee range spike damage.  My concern is that in WvW, though, a lot of the time there will be ranged combat happening, and a D/D Ele has great diversity among the elements, but is very tied to melee.  Some of the summoned weapons might solve this.

Engineer- Still exploring this class, so I'd love to hear other's thoughts on some roles for it in WvW.  I love it's vibe, but haven't quite got my head around how I'd like to play it.  Traps/mines aren't really my thing.

#18 Scribbles

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

PoisonTaco said:

If some professions are not very good at WvW then the devs didn't make WvW properly.

Either that, or you end up with an overbalanced profession that sucks, but which ends up very important in WvWvW due to one key ability.

An example would be the magus and engineer class in Warhammer Online. They had poor damage, low survivability, and only a few useful support tools, but they had this one ability that was so powerful that you just had to have them in your warband. That ability was an area of effect pull that yanked every enemy towards the Magus/Engineer. Combine that with stacked area of effect damage from all the other classes on top of the magus/engineer, and you had one huge pile of dead people.

#19 PoisonTaco

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:55 PM

Scribbles said:

Either that, or you end up with an overbalanced profession that sucks, but which ends up very important in WvWvW due to one key ability.

An example would be the magus and engineer class in Warhammer Online. They had poor damage, low survivability, and only a few useful support tools, but they had this one ability that was so powerful that you just had to have them in your warband. That ability was an area of effect pull that yanked every enemy towards the Magus/Engineer. Combine that with stacked area of effect damage from all the other classes on top of the magus/engineer, and you had one huge pile of dead people.

I remember that, it was so rediculous. People blocking your way? Not anymore!

#20 Spacegrass

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:37 PM

I think all of the professions will have their uses in WvWvW. I'm planning to main a staff Elementalist, which I think will be useful against large groups of enemies; Static Field (AoE stun) in particular will cause a lot of rage, especially when followed up with some AoE damage attacks, and the AoE heals will help the team. I think Engineers will also be useful with their turrets, mines, support abilities and AoE weapon kits. The Guardian will also be good because of all the allies, as will a Warrior with Shout abilities and a Ranger with spirits. Necromancers will be good because they can apply conditions to large groups of enemy players. Mesmers and Thieves will probably have more specialized roles, such as using their stealth and speed to scout and to capture lightly defended objectives.

#21 LastDay

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:10 PM

They all seem useful to me.

Ranged AoE damage is very useful in group fights, obviously.

Buffs that affect allies probably, too.
Imagine a Thief applying Venom to the weapons of allies in a group of 50 people, a Guardian giving Might, Protection and Aegis or a Warrior using Shouts and Banners.

Necros will probably have ridiculous amounts of Life Force to spend there, as they get Life Force every time somebody dies!
They'll probably die last there, but probably won't actually be as dangerous as Long Bow Warriors and Support Guardians.

Mesmer's Portal skill can be crazy if planned well, and Thieves can pick their fights if they are smart with Stealth and Mobility.

#22 Bunzaga

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:49 PM

LastDay said:

Mesmer's Portal skill can be crazy if planned well,

I just saw this video, where a warrior was inside a siege golem, and they wanted to cross a small body of water.  So the mesmer puts down a portal, and then swims across to the dry land, and puts down the exit of the portal.  So then the siege golem jumps in and poof, he is across the water.

When I saw that I was like... Ok, I'm going to make sure I have a mesmer in my WvWvW squad.

I know people have theory crafted about it, but it was cool to actually see it being applied.

#23 Kymeric

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:37 PM

Bunzaga said:

I know people have theory crafted about it, but it was cool to actually see it being applied.

I can haz link?

Please? :D

#24 Bunzaga

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:18 PM

Here it is... its from Total Biscuits, 'The Mailbox' March 16th 1012

I put the link to start right when the mesmer places the entrance spot.

The video is actually about Valve / CS, etc, but he has GW2 playing in the background.

Edited by Bunzaga, 19 March 2012 - 10:24 PM.


#25 Stormcaller

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:19 PM

My main will be an Elementalist and I think Elementalists can pull off some great things. AoE will be very powerful when defending key locations. And depending on how the speed limit will be settled, air elementalists will either be good or great scouts (I know that the minimum top speed they can get is +40%).

#26 Arghore

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:15 AM

I will likely venture into WvW with my engineer, there is something about putting turrets up without 'supply' that makes for a decent defense character, or offense for that matter. And decent support aswell...

The next character is probably going to be my thief as a scout or small team member.

#27 Basharic

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:39 AM

The best professions are going to be the professions manned by the players Bunzaga discussed early on. Those who actually work together to get things done.

Unless ArenaNet fails completely on some profs or specs, each one will bring strengths and weaknesses. The great leaders of WvW are going to work with the players they have, not with what they wish they had.

#28 ProjectMars

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:24 PM

Bunzaga said:

Ahh, there is a lot of 'ranged' combat in WvWvW.  Ground to walls, walls to ground, bridges, choke points, zerg vs zerg, etc.

So ranged people may have an advantage over melee, in groups that are moving around a lot.  However, if a pure melee is good at coordinating siege weapons, then I think they could be just as viable.

I also think the team that has more 'help my friends' type skills will shine.  Aoe buffs, aoe heals, aoe 'remove conditions', this sort of thing.

So ranged and support is where its at for the 'zerg vs zerg' mentality.

I am hoping we get some 'roaming groups' like we did in DAoC though, where you run around the map, looking for other groups and do mini battles to wipe each other out.

Thankfully there are no pure melee professions.

And yeah, each profession has enough to bring to the table to where there shouldn't be a best profession at any aspect of PVP. Certain professions are mostly going to be played a certain way though (necromancers, for instance, have a pair of traits and an AoE heal that would turn them into a fairly decent medic, but people will be more into making a minion master build.) but that has to do with their toolboxes: guardians get more AoE control than a warrior, for instance. This does mean that certain professions will do better at certain tasks than others. Even then, there is some overlap. For instance, engineers get a variety of turrets and a couple of shield skills that set down barriers to protect against projectiles. I would put them on par with the guardians for that reason. Necromancers have a nice Mix of abilities that would make them real valuable on an assault team, due to being able to provide healing, decent damage, and debuffs.

If you want one class that can perform the most variety of roles, and THAT is your criteria of best, then there is the elementalist. It has various heal and wall spells, so it is good on defense and for supporting offense. It is great on offense due to multiple AoEs and good dps in general, and can be good for harassing players due to multiple CCs. It also has several escape tools, so it can be good as a scout and artifact runner. More over, it can accomplish being great at most, if not all of these roles with a single weapon skill set (which it can't switch out of, unlike most other classes.) so there is also that, since most classes need to pick the right weapon and other skill set to excell at a given role.

#29 Drekor

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:36 PM

ProjectMars said:

Thankfully there are no pure melee professions.
Guardians have no viability for range atm. They either need to focus solely on support, or teleport into enemies and hope for the best.

#30 Obscure One

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:21 PM

Drekor said:

Guardians have no viability for range atm. They either need to focus solely on support, or teleport into enemies and hope for the best.

Actually staff and scepter are both viable Guardian ranged options. Staff being the AoE damage and support option with a nifty "You shall not pass!" style wall skill that could be used to block enemies from entering fortress' after they take down a door/wall. While the scepter is more offensive with a touch of immobilizing single targets. Couple these with spirit weapons for extra damage output and plenty of Guardians can potentially rock the ranged threat just fine ;)