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Some Professions lack conditions


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#1 FranzM

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:01 PM

Am i the only one that finds it wierd that the classes have more stun breaking skills than actual stuns?

Didnt you also notice most of the necro's fear capabilities are underwater.

Also the mesmer doesnt have that many dazes which they should somewhere in there.

I see lacking with invulnerability as well.


unless they are more implied into traits.

I am also not aware of any other conditions or boons that the professions are lacking but i was just wondering if i was the only one with the concern.

I know it is only beta stage and that it may also be a balance thing but wouldnt more variety be great?

Would u consider these issues actual problems?

State your opinions and points.

#2 Tenicord

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:15 PM

Well I don't think we know all the skills yet for each class? And besides that, it's still  beta and arenanet is and will continue to balance the game as need be. I'm really not concerned based on how they handled GW1. I'm sure it will be fine. But only time will tell.

I do remember them saying something about not wanting it to be like WoW or SWTOR where you are just stunned and immobalized to the point where you don't even get to move before your dead. I'm sure that has something to do with it.

#3 Garethh

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:15 PM

It takes a utility to break a stun and a weapon ability to apply one.
The under water fear/necro thing is just silly.
Mesmers have a better thing than daze called clones and confusion ;)
Rangers have tons and tons of conditions
Warriors can do some pretty solid bleeding
Elementalists can do some VERY solid bleed/burning

I would have liked to see more confusion/weakness/blind style conditions out there than the whole bleed/burn/poison thing but that's just me.  Baiting out cleanses seems possibly interesting enough.

#4 liquidwulfe

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:21 PM

Considering the stunfest that other MMO's became, I am glad there are far more soft CC's, than outright stuns.  Being stunlocked is a crap mechanic.

#5 FranzM

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:33 PM

^wow you are right about that part. but i do agree on the point of including more confusion.

as for the necro fear....i find it odd that only deathshroud is the only land ability that can fear....as well as that lich elite

#6 Phoenix Inertia

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:40 PM

FranzM said:

^wow you are right about that part. but i do agree on the point of including more confusion.

I feel like Confusion should be a Mesmer specific condition. That type of "you attack and get damaged" play style was very common for the Mesmer in Guild Wars and it should stay like that in Guild Wars 2.

#7 Mugen

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:45 PM

FranzM said:

[B]Also the mesmer doesnt have that many dazes which they should somewhere in there.

Daze and stun are not conditions. Also one of the shatter effects on mesmer apply stun. Although mesmers only have 1 skill that directly applies vulnerability, its in the auto attack chain so its applied more frequently. Also some conditions have an affinity to certain classes; it wouldn't make sense if a mesmer can poison or a warrior could confuse, its just not in their character.

#8 Aelial

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 09:08 PM

liquidwulfe said:

Considering the stunfest that other MMO's became, I am glad there are far more soft CC's, than outright stuns.  Being stunlocked is a crap mechanic.

This is so true.
Played Warhammer and I have to say the stun and stagger (stun that breaks when you take damage) times were ridiculous. When you were staggered/stun locked you could get a glass of orange juice or something else and it made no difference for the fight. Literally. I am not joking.

Thankfully they "fixed" it with diminishing returns and immunities. Then you would waste your level 4 moral ability (highest moral level, took minutes to charge), which was an AoE silence for 8 seconds (LOL), because some random guy AoE knocked down your targets 15 seconds ago for 1 second.

NEVER AGAIN.

#9 Fox_LWW

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 09:13 PM

FranzM said:

[B]
I see lacking with invulnerability as well.

Ehm what about dodge?

#10 Lyssa's Muse

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 09:22 PM

FranzM said:

Also the mesmer doesnt have that many dazes which they should somewhere in there.

They have more Dazes than any other profession, and they rival Warriors with Stuns.

#11 Morghana

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

I have quite a lot xp with stun-locks, silence-lock, 'insert your cc combination here'-lock (long time arena healer here).. And I also could see the effort to balance it, then dismissing returns implementations..  After that, how to group the cc so DR not ruining some classes or classes combinations..  And finally always mess it up.

And what I can tell so far, is that it is too complex (in developing context) and not even necessary.. It's not fair, it's not funny.. If you can land your macro first, you should have half way done, and that's pretty much it.

I actually prefer more freedom, more self awareness (position, self heals,defensive cds... ) More active reactions rather than I win if I can line up my cd's and nullify my target, while I die horribly other wise.

#12 Kasama

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:43 PM

I don't understand this topic. Why exactly is this a potential problem? You don't give any reason to why these professions need these conditions.

#13 Vodkarn

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:09 PM

I am somewhat worried about the sheer amount of stun/knockdowns that warriors have. If this is another PvP game where I spend more time not using my character than using it...

#14 Lyssa's Muse

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:15 PM

Vodkarn said:

I am somewhat worried about the sheer amount of stun/knockdowns that warriors have. If this is another PvP game where I spend more time not using my character than using it...

Most of them require close range or adrenaline though. And this game does give us plenty of ways to kite a Warrior, so there has to be some sort of compromise there.

#15 Culture Shock

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:44 PM

FranzM said:

Am i the only one that finds it wierd that the classes have more stun breaking skills than actual stuns?

That's to prevent [B]Stun Locking
- multiple players using stun back to back on a single target.  They want the game to be fun and that would go against their policy if people could simply prevent you from doing anything for long periods of time.  It's also one of the reason people hated Mesmers Shut-down skills in GW1.  As a Mesmer I loved it but we got so much OP and hate mail all last year in the old Mesmer thread.  

Some people dreaded the return of the Mesmer because of their shut down techniques so interrupts and complete shut downs are not a large part of GW2, since players always can have skills to get them out of it.

#16 Detahmaio

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:47 PM

technically immobilize is a stun

#17 Garethh

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:50 PM

Detahmaio said:

technically immobilize is a stun

lashg;shd...
stupid DR system... stupid ranger pets that immobilize yet you can't control when... they just burn enemy DRs without even really helping... stupid stupid stupid...

><

#18 Phoenix Inertia

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:57 PM

FranzM said:

I know it is only beta stage and that it may also be a balance thing but wouldnt more variety be great?

How is making every profession have the ability to do every condition and boon in the game to each other variety? That's why the boon Aegis is Guardian exclusive and how only the Mesmer and Guardian can grant Retaliation. That adds variety and keeps you on your toes when going up against and partying with the different professions.

Culture Shock said:

It's also one of the reason people hated Mesmers Shut-down skills in GW1.

Oh god....remember the very first version of Blackout in PvP? SOOOOOO much Mesmer hate....

#19 Lyssa's Muse

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:02 AM

Detahmaio said:

technically immobilize is a stun

Nah, you can still use skills when immobilised.

#20 Detahmaio

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:06 AM

because you can use skills it's no longer a stun?
I've never heard of DR in gw2 for pvp

#21 Lyssa's Muse

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:13 AM

Detahmaio said:

because you can use skills it's no longer a stun?
I've never heard of DR in gw2 for pvp

Yes because a stun prevents you from moving and using skills.

#22 Phoenix Inertia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:16 AM

I'm sorry...some times I get lost in silly abbreviations...but what is DR?

#23 reverend moonie

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:29 AM

Phoenix Inertia said:

How is making every profession have the ability to do every condition and boon in the game to each other variety? That's why the boon Aegis is Guardian exclusive and how only the Mesmer and Guardian can grant Retaliation. That adds variety and keeps you on your toes when going up against and partying with the different professions.



Oh god....remember the very first version of Blackout in PvP? SOOOOOO much Mesmer hate....

lol...forget blackout...the first few months of mez in gw1 ,,inspiration was the most op mez has ever been...edrain  34 enegry. etap 14 enegry .eburn 10e. shame 16 e. ..rinse and repeat...you could take a monk to zero enegry in a few sec and keep him pinned at zero easily..we raped with it till we fought a dev team and the next day it was nerfed....but man was it funny it was soo broken.

ps ..necs have retaliation too.

Edited by reverend moonie, 26 March 2012 - 12:32 AM.


#24 Detahmaio

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:36 AM

Lyssa said:

Yes because a stun prevents you from moving and using skills.

I guess there is about 2 stuns in the game then.

DR= Diminishing Returns

#25 Asterai

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:40 AM

OP:  Provide some quantitative analysis first, or this discussion won't go anywhere useful.  Also, the meaning of "I see lacking with invulnerability as well" is clear as mud.

#26 SaladBarGladiator

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:42 AM

I couldn't disagree more, imo there are way too many conditions in the game and many professions have access to quite a few of them. I feel that the pvp revolves far too much around conditions since honestly when you fight a mesmer you have like 3 conditions on you the whole time and it is annoying as hell.  They are just so easy to keep up all the time and they are so powerful once they are all stacked you can't do anything if your build isn't condition heavy as well. Too little direct damage options in the game in my experience.

#27 Lyssa's Muse

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:46 AM

Detahmaio said:

I guess there is about 2 stuns in the game then.

DR= Diminishing Returns

There's a list of them here on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwar...n#By_profession

#28 Phoenix Inertia

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 01:23 AM

SaladBarGladiator said:

I couldn't disagree more, imo there are way too many conditions in the game and many professions have access to quite a few of them. I feel that the pvp revolves far too much around conditions since honestly when you fight a mesmer you have like 3 conditions on you the whole time and it is annoying as hell.  They are just so easy to keep up all the time and they are so powerful once they are all stacked you can't do anything if your build isn't condition heavy as well. Too little direct damage options in the game in my experience.

Spoken like someone who was in beta...
...
...
>.>

#29 Detahmaio

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:14 AM

Phoenix Inertia said:

Spoken like someone who was in beta...
...
...
>.>

LOL dead give away

#30 Dalor

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:31 AM

FranzM said:

^wow you are right about that part. but i do agree on the point of including more confusion.

as for the necro fear....i find it odd that only deathshroud is the only land ability that can fear....as well as that lich elite

The 5th skill on staff is different in current beta. It fears foes who step on the mark instead of bleed and vulnerability.