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Elemental elites


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#1 aguliondew

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

So how good are the elementalist elites? I have seen alot of videos of the tornado, flame sword, and greater elementals but how do they compare to one another?  Glyph of Elementals works well with the Air traits. While the Fire traits make Fiery Greatsword alot better.

What about Tornado I have not seen many player make good use of it. I have read about some of the different abilities of Tornado. Each of tornado's ability according to gw2wiki has no cooldown, so I assume it just changes the form of tornado. Every Tornado ability poisons with each different skill adding a condition(blind/bleed/cripple).

#2 DeanAdamFry

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

Correct for the most part.

Fiery Greatsword: It's not worth it as an elite (it's cool though) I mean you can try it along with the other conjures but it's best to stick with cantrips, signets etc.

Tornado: Like you said above it offers poison, blind, bleed and cripple but it also launches nearby foes (causing them to unable to move) automatically, gives you stability and doubles your health pool. Personally at the moment I'm weighing this elite with Glyph of Elementals but in terms of utility this one takes my vote.

Glyph of Elementals: At first I thought elemental pets were worthless (like the ones in WoW) and didn't pay any attention to them since I knew you couldn't control them and do not offer a secondary option when using it (necromancer pets as an example) but very recently, members here have shown me videos of the elementals performance and I got to say they're damage is no joke considering in one of them it was hitting an necromancer 4k - 5k per crit hit (it crits often).

Overall if you want utility then use Tornado but if you simply want to burst damage your opponents to death then get Glyph of Elementals, it last for 60 seconds.

#3 T0ken

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:42 AM

DeanAdamFry said:

Correct for the most part.

Fiery Greatsword: It's not worth it as an elite (it's cool though) I mean you can try it along with the other conjures but it's best to stick with cantrips, signets etc.

Tornado: Like you said above it offers poison, blind, bleed and cripple but it also launches nearby foes (causing them to unable to move) automatically, gives you stability and doubles your health pool. Personally at the moment I'm weighing this elite with Glyph of Elementals but in terms of utility this one takes my vote.

Glyph of Elementals: At first I thought elemental pets were worthless (like the ones in WoW) and didn't pay any attention to them since I knew you couldn't control them and do not offer a secondary option when using it (necromancer pets as an example) but very recently, members here have shown me videos of the elementals performance and I got to say they're damage is no joke considering in one of them it was hitting an necromancer 4k - 5k per crit hit (it crits often).

Overall if you want utility then use Tornado but if you simply want to burst damage your opponents to death then get Glyph of Elementals, it last for 60 seconds.


Can you link a video of it in action pls?

All i know is the air elemental has a stun, this weird aoe, and swirling winds that was shown in the yogcast elementalist spotlight video.

The earth elemental im pretty sure has a Aoe knockdown which was shown in that curse ranger video (the one where the elementalist crits with flame grab for like 9k or something)

Until we know all the skills they have we wont know the full extent of their power.

#4 DeanAdamFry

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:45 AM

T0ken said:

Can you link a video of it in action pls?

All i know is the air elemental has a stun, this weird aoe, and swirling winds that was shown in the yogcast elementalist spotlight video.

The earth elemental im pretty sure has a Aoe knockdown which was shown in that curse ranger video (the one where the elementalist crits with flame grab for like 9k or something)

Until we know all the skills they have we wont know the full extent of their power.

This is from a Necromancers point of view (skip to 12:50):

Could you link me the video to the earth elemental and the air elemental please?

#5 T0ken

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:00 AM

DeanAdamFry said:

This is from a Necromancers point of view (skip to 12:50):

Could you link me the video to the earth elemental and the air elemental please?



air elemental and lesser earth elemental
casts stun at 20:48 then swirling winds right after that then the weird aoe spell right after that(aoe might be his auto attack)
you can also see the lesser earth doing a punch that gives vulnerability or weakness i forget which.


earth elemental
@ 3:56 he seems to do a aoe move that knocks down ranger. Im not 100% sure that this knocksdown but it looksl ike it. You can also see another earth ele running around inthe background later in the video but i couldnt find anything from that.

----------

wow that greater fire elemental was consistently hitting for 3k thats pretty sick. Theres so much going on that its hard as hell to see whats happening though.

#6 aguliondew

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:20 AM

Yea I can see why the fiery greatsword looks underwhelming. I was hoping that it would be better than what it looks like so far.



His damage did not increase that much compared the the staff he was using.

#7 Taliesin

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:28 AM

I think fiery Greatsword is more suited to PvE and the best for PvP in my opinion would be Tornado, Elemental for WvW :p

#8 DeanAdamFry

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:35 AM

Taliesin said:

I think fiery Greatsword is more suited to PvE and the best for PvP in my opinion would be Tornado, Elemental for WvW :p

PvE side you can have anything so if you want to be a badass with a greatsword then you can but it's a different case in PvP.

#9 Taliesin

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:59 AM

DeanAdamFry said:

PvE side you can have anything so if you want to be a badass with a greatsword then you can but it's a different case in PvP.

Exactly what I said :p

#10 Rabiator

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:34 AM

Since I have made a build which uses Glyphs and stance dancing heavily I will probably prefer the Elemental due to its flexibility (PvE). Water elemental adds healing, air elemental stuns, earth elemental can tank.
The big questions are:
- How does the water elemental heal? (aura / small burst around the target it is hitting / separate ability it casts itself)
- How are the elementals controlled best? (They dont seem a little sluggish - just like Ranger pets - in the videos I have seen so far.)

The Fiery Greatsword seems kinda pointless UNLESS it does significantly more damage than your usual skills. If it doesnt it is just a fun skill since melee combat is kinda dangerous (especially if you put zero points into Earth Magic).

The Tornado is "undefined" in its duration, damage and area atm and thus totally unknown.

#11 Kasama

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

It's because they are free damage. Players only seem to kill pets after they have killed all players in the area. So until you (or your elemental) are dead, your elemental is free to do all the damage it can. Besides, the Elementalist has plenty of escape utility skills like Mist Form or Lightning Flash, so Tornado is not really that needed in a tight situation.

#12 Stormcaller

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

Kasama said:

It's because they are free damage. Players only seem to kill pets after they have killed all players in the area. So until you (or your elemental) are dead, your elemental is free to do all the damage it can. Besides, the Elementalist has plenty of escape utility skills like Mist Form or Lightning Flash, so Tornado is not really that needed in a tight situation.

It just really depends on where you are going to use it. In storymode play or general play you can pretty much choose any elite that you think is coolest since strategy isn't as critical. For dungeons and sPvP glyph of elementals would be the optimal skill. However for WvW tornado can be the biggest pain in the ass for the other team, especially during raids. I'm sure you've seen a siege where there are like 20 people balled up attacking the door. Sneak up on that group (if possible), lightning flash and activate tornado. Shit will go down.

#13 DeanAdamFry

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:41 PM

Rabiator said:

Since I have made a build which uses Glyphs and stance dancing heavily I will probably prefer the Elemental due to its flexibility (PvE). Water elemental adds healing, air elemental stuns, earth elemental can tank.
The big questions are:
- How does the water elemental heal? (aura / small burst around the target it is hitting / separate ability it casts itself)
- How are the elementals controlled best? (They dont seem a little sluggish - just like Ranger pets - in the videos I have seen so far.)

The Fiery Greatsword seems kinda pointless UNLESS it does significantly more damage than your usual skills. If it doesnt it is just a fun skill since melee combat is kinda dangerous (especially if you put zero points into Earth Magic).

The Tornado is "undefined" in its duration, damage and area atm and thus totally unknown.

It lasts for 15 seconds, its area radius is huge and damage is roughly 1k - 2k per skill use.

#14 Kitsune

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:04 PM

Another thing to consider is that fiery great sword conjures TWO weapons, like all our other conjurations, so when used with an ally you have a quite potent elite skill, particularly if you are with an engineer or another elementalist (or any other profession who has a range-only option) who does not have a melee skill set currently equipped.

Personally, I'd love it if the elite was changed thematically to incorporate all elements, with the first skill being a 4 part chain that applies a unique condition based on each elemental strike, rotating between all four over the combo (bunring = fire, vulnerability = air, weakness = earth, chilled = water)

Then, each of the four remaining skills could be themed after each element, with a fire aoe on a low recharge, and maybe air for a lightning based charge attack with high single target burst, and then water for some kind of opponent positioning skill to help gather foes in for aoe, and finally a earth aoe knock down on a long cooldown similar to the hammer burst skill for warrior, perhaps also creating a earth field that applies Cripple in the area hit.

I think that would make the elite much cooler, and a bit more "elite" worthy like some of the other elite's we've seen, but that would likely mean it wouldnt summon a second weapon for our allies as this would be VERY powerful if able to double-up on such a skill set.

#15 aguliondew

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

Well the game is still in beta testing so the fiery greatsword could be changed. Since I have not played the game all of the info I have on the ability is hearsay. It could be most powerful than what I have read about or seen.

#16 Akee

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 11:37 PM

The elemental summons elite seems like a generally safe elite to take, not a whole lot of strategy or timing needed to use and as someone else said its basicly free damage with some utility.  As long as the AI isn't complete crap, which right now them seem passable, they seem like the only real option for range focused eles.

However, I think tornado is a better elite to be taking for a daggar builds.  Looks great for taking someone down to 1/3 HP and than trap them in a corner with tornado for the quick kill before they can heal or run away.  Also great for zoning or delaying an enemy at a capture point or causing all out chaos in a group fight.  Sadly I see few videos of this elite being used wisely.  Most the time they seem to just pop tornadoes when they are at 20% HP with 3 enemies focus firing them.

#17 Rabiator

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:46 AM

DeanAdamFry said:

[Tornado] lasts for 15 seconds, its area radius is huge and damage is roughly 1k - 2k per skill use.

That seems totally badass for WvW ... and if you have 2-3 elementalists who chain their Tornadoes you can easily clear a choke point with some other support.

#18 Chaotic

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:21 AM

Bleh, I was really stoked for the conjure fiery greatsword, but I understand how it may not be so viable in pvp. I feel like the ele needs more elites characteristic of the superpower mage. The tornado fits the bill, but I feel like the summon is a bit lackluster. Greatsword needs a buff.

#19 Rabiator

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:34 AM

Chaotic said:

Bleh, I was really stoked for the conjure fiery greatsword, but I understand how it may not be so viable in pvp. I feel like the ele needs more elites characteristic of the superpower mage. The tornado fits the bill, but I feel like the summon is a bit lackluster. Greatsword needs a buff.

All of the summon spells feel to me like "elementalists already have 20 skills to manage, why give them even more?" ... they are just for fun IMO.

#20 masterloup

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:37 AM

The greatsword should come with a toughness or some sort of survivability buff while active.(like protection/stability) You're going in melee range, as a clothy with low health to smack people in the face without any defence

#21 Chaotic

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:40 AM

Rabiator said:

All of the summon spells feel to me like "elementalists already have 20 skills to manage, why give them even more?" ... they are just for fun IMO.

I can see your point, but of all my skill slots, I would not sacrifice my elite slot just so I could "have a break."  Then again, I don't know how effective the pets are, and if Anet improved AI, so we'll see!

#22 Vanillea

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:32 AM

Chaotic said:

Bleh, I was really stoked for the conjure fiery greatsword, but I understand how it may not be so viable in pvp. I feel like the ele needs more elites characteristic of the superpower mage. The tornado fits the bill, but I feel like the summon is a bit lackluster. Greatsword needs a buff.

Out of all elites right now, Elemental probably have the highest dmg potential. What we are hoping for is :
1: You can buff and heal your pets
2: You stat are dependent with pet stat ( so that you can build defensive and your pet still deals decent dmg)

In a Ele vs Necro pet fight, I can see that ele might even have an advantage. Ele's pet deal OMG-r-you-kidding-me dmg and don't die too easily (they die pretty fast thou :p) and it is harder for necro to down ele' pet. I think that 1 Arcane wave from Ele and most of necro's pet might be gone xD. I wished the elementals look a little more epic thou.

#23 lolAirborne

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:18 AM

I hope they actually allow the Elite pet to have skills that you can activate. I say this because if it is an Elite skill, there should be something that separates it from the Lesser version. That way you can plan the stun, heal or whatever there might be. Elite skills should make you feel like you are making a difference for popping it.

#24 kursor

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:51 AM

Kitsune said:

Personally, I'd love it if the elite was changed thematically to incorporate all elements, with the first skill being a 4 part chain that applies a unique condition based on each elemental strike, rotating between all four over the combo (bunring = fire, vulnerability = air, weakness = earth, chilled = water)

I love the idea of an elite that incorporates all the elements.
Maybe we could get something like this:

Elemental Avatar
You become an avatar of the four elements granting you new powers.
Skills:
1 - Send out a ball of elemental energy, composed of fire, lightning, frost and earth. Burns, chills, bleeds, and causes vulnerability.
2 - Magma Flows. Summon forth a wave of lava in front of you. Damages and burns enemies.
3 - Gale Aura. Wind surrounds you, increasing your movement speed and knocking back nearby foes.
4 -Maelstrom. Summon a downpour in the target area. Chills and damages foes while granting Swiftness and healing allies.
5 -Rising Earth. Raise a ring of earth around the target area. Players cannot move in or out of the ring.

A boy can dream, can't he? lol

#25 Vanillea

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:24 AM

Just take out Tornado. Change it into Elemental Spirit:

Water: morph you into an Ice Goddess (Shiva :x)
Fire: Tunr you into a Fire Beast
Air: I would take Tornado
Earth: Giant Golem is acceptable.

Now we r talking

#26 Elemental Gearbolt

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:25 PM

In the previous ele general thread ( 2011) there was a big discussion regarding this possible elemental transformation for each attunement, furthermore me and other had suggested the possibility of introducing an elemental summon, after we all seen that ice elemental :D.

Spoiler

Haha well I remember in 2011 when one of the developer mentioned something as an elemental pet utility for the ele on reddit, after talking about it in the ele thread many ( non ele fans) started to call me crazy as the developer was only referring to the ice elemental summon..well looks like I wasn't that crazy:D

#27 Vanillea

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:22 PM

It kinda makes sense, why would an elite that have 180 CD  only represent 1 element of ele. So I really hope or Glyph of Elemental Spirit now.

Now that we are talking, where is our Water Riffle, Air Staff and Earth Scepter ?

#28 Jayjay

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:08 PM

Im just a lowly necromancer guy creeping into this elementalist discussion, but dontcha kinda think that minions are a necromancer thing? and the elemental elite (and the lesser elemental glyph) are both massively more powerful than even the necromancers elite minion :/ dont you think thats a bit wrong ?

(hoping i dont get blown to oblivion by fire balls and lightning bolts ^^ hehe)

#29 EatThisShoe

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:39 PM

Minions are not at all exclusive to necromancers. Guardian spirit weapons, ranger pets, rune procs, mesmer clones, and of course elementalist and necro pets too. They are all over.

As far as power level, the elementalist pet is not permanent, it expires after a duration even if it doesn't die. It also has a longer cooldown than Flesh Golem I believe.

#30 Jayjay

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

EatThisShoe said:

Minions are not at all exclusive to necromancers. Guardian spirit weapons, ranger pets, rune procs, mesmer clones, and of course elementalist and necro pets too. They are all over.

As far as power level, the elementalist pet is not permanent, it expires after a duration even if it doesn't die. It also has a longer cooldown than Flesh Golem I believe.

Oh i didnt realise they were timed :) thats more fair then, they do more damage, but over a shorter period of time :D that seems fair :)