18 replies to this topic

[kcpat]

Hey everybody,

Since there are so many kits that give such a diverse experience, I thought it would be fitting to have a thread to discuss them as well as our beta experience with them (as always, mods, if there is already a thread for this I didn't find, feel free to take this down).

Honestly, I have found every kit to really suck (at least in PvP). The only exception is the elixir gun, which gives excellent support, condition dealing and survivability. Other than that, however, they literally are all useless. The grenade kit gives nice conditions but the damage is far too low and the cool downs for the best grenades are far too long. The bomb kit seems good on paper but I can't seem to have any success with it. The mine kit is a good idea, having the ability to detonate all of them without having the kit open so you can use your other weapons, but the damage they deal is far too low for it to even be viable. The tool kit is just laughable in my opinion. I like the idea of the flamethrower a lot, but the limited range and, again, lackluster damage don't make it viable either.

I just don't see the point of using a utility slot for any of these (other than the elixir gun) when you could just throw an elixir or turret in there and have far more versatility and success. Has anyone else had a better experience with them or have specific ideas on how to improve them?

Edited by kcpat, 28 April 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[Voss]

The Grenade Kit has a lot of upside but it's difficult to work with while in combat. All the grenades are ground targetable which feels clunky while you're on the move. I guess it's something that we just have to get used to.

[Zinn]

I liked the bomb kit alot and was able to get some solid damage out with it.

The toolkit was utterly useless.  Just plain awful in every aspect.  I have no idea why this kit is even available, it serves no purpose.

The grenade kit was good for stacking vuln, but other than that it was awkward to use and the damage was low.

The mine kit was decent.  One thing that disappointed me was the kit refinement ability did incredibly low damage.  Less than half what a mine did.

The flame kit looks good, but the rifle was doing better damage with longer range.  I did enjoy the push/pull mechanic.

The elixir kit I didn't really test much.  Elixir F seemed to not bounce back to me often for the speed buff.

[Ktuhlu]

The only one I like using is the Flamethrower, even though I know its damage is awful. It's just fun to use.

I have zero interest in the mine kit. To me it is just bland.

I was looking forward to the grenade kit but since the spells are ground targeted it is impossible to use effectively while moving. The most disappointing kit.

I wasn't expecting anything out of the toolkit so I wasn't shocked to see that it was useless and boring.

The bomb kit is fun and exceeded my expectations. Really only good for defending, though.

Med kit -- not sure why you'd use it over any other healing spell.

Elixir gun -- hits like a wet noodle even more so than the other kits. Healing doesn't seem potent enough to be worth using. The only good thing about it is the toolbelt skill. I wish this kit was better.

[dansamy]

The Med kit is awful. It's pathetic healing & difficult to use mid-battle when you'll need it. You can't drop them early because they don't stay for too long before disappearing.

[expendability]

My firstish pvp battle.. I have to say the Kits seem kinda weak compared to your regular weapon.. I liked the build but in PvE they deff seem weak compared to other classes.. Seems like if you are not speced into the kits they suck

PS... Drunk so no judging my posts lol

[Lyuben]

Kits are a liability in PvP. You are best in speccing for turrets, elixirs or whatever you like, and focussing on your pistol/rifle.

[Cl1p]

Mine kit rules in pvp atm, with the trait mines seem to stay invisible during combat.

[kcpat]

Cl1p, on 28 April 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Mine kit rules in pvp atm, with the trait mines seem to stay invisible during combat.

Are you serious? One time I was defending a point, put all five mines on it (and they were invisible) and was like "okay this'll be great I'll blow up all 5 on an attacker and start the battle off with a big advantage". So someone tries to cap it, I explode them all and it seriously took out like 10% of their heath. Worthless.

Also, upon more use in higher skill PvP matches (after getting more glory), I've found the elixir gun to be worse than I originally had thought. It can be very useful in groups of 3 or more (that 5 skill is invaluable) but the damage is laughable and the poison has crappy range. I had gotten the impression that the elixir gun would give you a balance between damage (at least through conditions) and support, but it is all support.

Edited by kcpat, 29 April 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Jancro]

Basically kits are great for PvE, useless for PvP.

[bloodronin]

i specced for condition damage  pistol shield, i used elixer gun too, i found elixer gun to be rly fun, that poison cloud was a beast, not to mention it was just fun in general, although besides that all the other kits were blah

[Alternate Eyes]

I PvP'ed for 95% of the weekend so all experiences based off that.


I spent a lot of builds focussing on elixirs and Flamethrower. It was I have to say incredibly fun. By far the most fun spec I played all weekend (Prehaps with the exception of a very buff orientated warrior - Was reaching 15 stacks of might with fury etc..).

The only downside was damage, It was abismal. The flamethrower skills were fun and interesting, it didn't feel clunky when switching or using.

I got some nice numbers with the rifle, but was sacrificing quite a lot of defense for it. I found the pistol/Shield a very versitile combo, Managed to escape some nifty situations The problem I found was that in almost every build I was having to take elixirs to keep up.

[JoopStroop]

I agree with the people that say that the regular weapons have much better damage output than any kit.

However, I did use kits throughout my PvPing, and thought some of them were useful. First of all, in WvW, the flamethrower is nice for dealing with groups of NPCs in camps or towers. In structured, the mines were great, since I had the knockback trait equipped. It easily bought me around 5 extra seconds per mine that exploded. And it was great in general, because I focused on dealing a lot of crits and conditions keeping the enemy at a distance (I had the improved rifle range, improved rifle damage and inflict blind on crit major traits). The flamethrower, I didn't use as much but it did come in handy in smaller spaces, and also the F2 function was nice which I could use to make my first few rifle attacks even stronger. I'm thinking of switching this one for a turret or perhaps elixir gun for PVP though, although I didn't find the turrets that useful.

The med kit I thought was useful for the swiftness potion and the occasional extra heal, although I agree that switching and all mid-battle is a bit confusing.

[Izsx]

Played a lot enginner with turret build, rocket and rifle with mine kit, mines with knokback, i Could hold battle objectives for huge time even against 2 or 3 opponents, mines can litterally block acces to a zone, and i you find yourself blocking someone in a corner you can mine own him to death.

[Sixes]

Disclaimer: I played WvW and PvE, didn't touch structured so I may have different angles than some people here.

Here are my impressions:
- grenades : great toolbelt but the skills all felt the same and really encouraged "spam on cooldown" which I didn't do with my rifle, maybe some kind of "grenade bolas" like the ogres or guards have, at least it would have a visual effect that isn't just a toss.

- bombs : again great toolbelt but it does seem counter intuitive. I really think the mine and bomb kit need merging. Just add the "explode X bomb" ability to the bomb kit and remove the mine kit. Big Ol' Bomb should never ever change. I played half the weekend with bomb kit just for this toolbelt.

- elixir gun : the speed buff needs to bounce off of enemies which is weird ... the base attack didn't seem to do much damage ... didn't spend much time on it but wasn't impressed.

- toolkit : there is a bug on the magnet which I reported (cooldown to 99 seconds) but it still seems very short ranged, as does the punt. The caltrops were interesting ... maybe could be GTAoE, this is one kit without any of that. The toolbelt was cool, the basic attack was alright I suppose. The block was ok ... Just seemed a little like playing a gimped warrior to be honest.

- mines : see bombs, should be merged imo, putting bombs at your feet is stupid but having glue/smoke/fire mines would be amazing.

- flamethrower : didn't try it because everyone else seemed to be using it. See someone else for feedback on this one.

- medkit: didn't touch it ... maybe I should have? Will do so next BWE.

Edited by Sixes, 30 April 2012 - 10:08 AM.

[Cl1p]

My impressions from pve & pvp:

TOOL:
Longest block skill I used in the game, combined with the trait that gives vulnarability on block this was a very powerful skill.
Damage output was laughable though, so not a kit to stay in very long, but some very nice control.

MINE:
Damage again not very high, but with the knockback from a trait this was the ultimate battlefield preperation kit for me. Spread them out nicely and you will have 5 places where you can lure an enemy for a free knockback.

Grenade: tried this kit in PVE (no traits) and it was hands down the worst damage output and had the worst control... the TB skill did very nice damage though!
Also, I'm kinda sad I didn't use this with the trait 'explosions burn on crit' and lots of + condition damage, I bet I would've been able to get some nice damage then.

BOMB:
Perfect for PVE, lots of combo fields, lots of control and very nice damage output. I was able to fight champion mobs with 4 times higher level than me with this kit.

Flamethrower:
Nice replacement for weapon skills in pve when your skills are on cooldown, and switch out & back is easy enough.
Not the best choice for pvp though, mostly because of the lack of a sigil effect. The toolbelt skill is again very nice, but the number 1 skill is very unreliable and shoots left or right when you run :/

Didnt use Elixir & med

Edited by Cl1p, 30 April 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[stupidogobius]

Cl1p, on 30 April 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Grenade: tried this kit in PVE (no traits) and it was hands down the worst damage output and had the worst control... the TB skill did very nice damage though!
Also, I'm kinda sad I didn't use this with the trait 'explosions burn on crit' and lots of + condition damage, I bet I would've been able to get some nice damage then.

Heres something worth mentioning about grenade kit - Big Grenade Pouch major trait (it actually adds 2 more grenades per throw) basically turns all grenate skills to barrage (around 50% change from my observation).

Edited by stupidogobius, 30 April 2012 - 12:17 PM.

[kursor]

Hm, seems I had the opposite

Jancro, on 29 April 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Basically kits are great for PvE, useless for PvP.

I disagree whole heartedly.
I spec'd into Explosives and had a great time w/ the Grenade and Bomb Kits.
I would say the Grenade kit is one of the more difficult kits to use in PvP. When you're first playing with it, you kind of just want to spam all your grenades and hope you win (at least that's what I did hahaha), but once you've got a grasp of what each grenade does and how to aim the grenades, it's a great kit for PvP.
The Bomb Kit really shines in structured PvP when you want to capture points. Realistically, I found very few people were able to go toe-to-toe with me when I stood on a capture point.
The combination of their tool belt skills Big Ole Bomb and Grenade Barrage, the latter of which causes a ridiculous number of vulnerability stacks when traited, deals a ton of aoe damage and knocks enemies off the capture point.

And when enemies were chasing me, the Smoke Bomb, Glue Bomb, and Freeze Grenade were all great kiting tools.

So I'd say, the Bomb and Grenade kits are fantastic for structured PvP, if you're playing to win (aka cap'ing points).

Edit - I didn't use the Elixir Gun more than a few rounds when I was first testing out the Engineer, but I really hope they make the 1 skill an auto-attack, it's annoying spamming 1. -.-
I understand having to spam 1 for the Bomb and Grenade kits, but the Elixir Gun... really?

Edited by kursor, 30 April 2012 - 12:44 PM.

[Cl1p]

kursor, on 30 April 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Edit - I didn't use the Elixir Gun more than a few rounds when I was first testing out the Engineer, but I really hope they make the 1 skill an auto-attack, it's annoying spamming 1. -.-
I understand having to spam 1 for the Bomb and Grenade kits, but the Elixir Gun... really?

You can make any 1-5 attack an auto attack by ctrl-right clicking it. Only one auto attack per weapon though. With the kits there wasn't a standard one but you could manually make it an auto attack.

Edited by Cl1p, 30 April 2012 - 01:00 PM.