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No any kind of resource system makes playing boring

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#31 Butcher

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

Anyone who complains about how level 1-20 combat is "spam-fest" is missing the point of any kind of low level combat in any MMO you've ever played. WoW was no different, ie "spam crusader strike for 24 levels".

Could you please wait for levels 30+ before making judgements about the combat at the very least? Also, if you're dying, then you're not doing it right. L2 dodge, don't blame the game for you being a shitty player.

LOL Tera.

Edited by unraveled, 28 April 2012 - 08:45 PM.
Didn't need that.


#32 Lethality

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:10 PM

View PostAlesthes, on 28 April 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

So basically you spammed casually buttons because you didn't get the role, position, interactions of the varius skill and now you are complaining because the combat is spammy... Fair...

We are finally delivered from that chore of the resource system. The combat is finally frantic, position, and tactical. Finally.

Resource systems are EXCELLENT because they give you a layer of management beyond just combat. Even secondary and tertiary resources are now used in a game like WoW or heck even Warhammer.  This is just a spam fest, pesudo-action combat that actually pales in compariosn to real action MMO combat in Tera.

#33 nf_zeta

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:10 PM

i realise we still haven't gotten a answer on where this experience happened or at least a lvl range to get an idea of what it would be like in relation to the lvl of content.

Adding a resource to the skills would just force rotations while dis-couraging using your skills on a situational basis, its more of an illusion of a complex combat, now Kyonyo replied to my post saying its 100% the combat system, now i would like to see how he came to that conclusion.

All i'm saying is that people seem to be taking the easiest content and the fact that you can spam the few skills you would have at that point and saying the combat system on a whole is bad, that IMO isn't a very reasonable or proper analysis.

Edited by nf_zeta, 28 April 2012 - 02:15 PM.


#34 Lethality

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:11 PM

View PostButcher, on 28 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Anyone who complains about how level 1-20 combat is "spam-fest" is missing the point.
Could you please wait for levels 30+ before making judgements about the combat at the very least.

LOL Tera.

I think Anet has some work to do if the suggestion is to "oh, wait until level 30!!!!"

You know the biggest problem? They have no incentive to make changes or keep us happy - we already bought the game. They don't have to worry about if we "cancel" or not.

Edited by unraveled, 28 April 2012 - 08:46 PM.
Amended quote.


#35 Feriluce

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:12 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

In other words, the tutorial is completely useless, and makes the combat frustrating and uninteresting. The "skill unlock" is unbelievably grindy, they don't tell you anything about WHY you should care about weapon swapping, and the obscure skill changes when you simply put your main in your off and your off in your main that you've been using for 10 levels. What's that? Back down to 1 skill.

There are shades of great in GW2, but the biggest problem seems to be that the same guys that made GW1 made it.

How is the weapon unlock grindy? It takes about 3 minutes to unlock all 3 skills of your starting weapon for instance. Its really quite fast.

#36 Lethality

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:13 PM

View PostFeriluce, on 28 April 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

How is the weapon unlock grindy? It takes about 3 minutes to unlock all 3 skills of your starting weapon for instance. Its really quite fast.

Maybe grindy wasn't the right word.... I guess I meant "unnecessary" especially as you say, it takes like 10 minutes at most.

#37 Butcher

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:18 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I think Anet has some work to do if the suggestion is to "oh, wait until level 30!!!!"

You know the biggest problem? They have no incentive to make changes or keep us happy - we already bought the game. They don't have to worry about if we "cancel" or not.

Yes, because ignoring your customers is a great way to gain more.
I'm absolutely CERTAIN arenanet will ignore making the game better based on the fact that they now have our money.

Hell, why even fix bugs, optimize the game, or even talk to us anymore? After all, they have our money, right!?
Your logic sucks.

#38 Kyonyo

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 28 April 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Or if you're finding warrior too easy, perhaps you should try another profession?
however I am sure that the warrior too has skills that are more useful in certain situations then others.
It is stated that warrior = easies, mesmer = hardest. I am not saying this from my own gameplay experience.
can't remember was anet even offically stated that

#39 Teste

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

In other words, the tutorial is completely useless, and makes the combat frustrating and uninteresting. The "skill unlock" is unbelievably grindy

Yeah, it's definitely better to have to grind levels in order to be able to buy the same skills over and over, with a new skill very once in a while, like in WoW. That's definitely a less grindy system! :rolleyes:

The combat in GW2 is not for everyone. People expecting to see one more copy of other MMOs, or one more copy with a small changes here and there like in Tera, are going to be extremely disappointed. If those players need to have WoW-lite to have fun... Well, I say bye to them. I would rather have a different - and better - game in GW2 than just have more of the same.

#40 XPhiler

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:21 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Dying != challenging content. Dying mostly comes out of frustration / confusion. Known in game design as "not fun."

Wait, What? I thought we were talking about combat here, that is you fighting against one or more oppontents. I thought you were arguing that combat was too easy, I thought you said clicking buttons at random is enough. If you succeed you dont die, if you fail you die... Dont see any other way to look at it. If you're dieing and saying that dieing isnt challenging seems to indicate you are It most certainly means the game is challenging for you. And I suspect the reason is cause you're understimating the combat system. Some skills are useless in certain situations while others are more effective. if in a fight you use click every skill equaly in those situations, it will take you twice the time to finish the fight, your enemy will have twice the time to kill you. If its multiple enemies against you, the amount of damage you will have to ensure will be exponentially larger.

I agree with the confusion part though, clicking buttons at random is the exact definision of confusion and will lead to more dieing which will lead to frustration (i sound like yoda now) I really suggest you listen to what people are saying here, just cause a few enemies are easy to kill it doesnt mean the game is easy, combat system uneccessary or everything else you have said. The combat system is design to help you win in those few challenging moments which end in your characters death. Using the right skill at the right time does a lot of difference I assure you!

#41 nf_zeta

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:22 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Maybe grindy wasn't the right word.... I guess I meant "unnecessary" especially as you say, it takes like 10 minutes at most.

well it was supposed to ease in each skill and teach the possible uses for them for each situation as you went along but seeing as that doesn't seem to work i guess it isn't quite doing its job currently due to people who go in with prior knowledge of MMOs ignoring it, well we can't say that its unnecessary yet as people who are new to MMOs might be able to use it for what it was meant and not just go through it like a player usually goes through lvls (meaning without thinking about their purpose)

Edited by nf_zeta, 28 April 2012 - 02:24 PM.


#42 XPhiler

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:22 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Maybe grindy wasn't the right word.... I guess I meant "unnecessary" especially as you say, it takes like 10 minutes at most.

It is not unnecessary each new skill you unlock has a specific use and when used in that situation it boosts damage not just for you, but for anyone else around in most cases. Try reading a bit what each skill does and you'll see

#43 Merdur

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostKyonyo, on 28 April 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

This is pretty much the biggest dislike. At first I really did not care about it I got feeling that well maybe I get used to it. After being in 3 beta I have played around 30h and really it gets boring when always u spam skills when they are off cd.
especially group fights:
1) you stay back
2) spam randomly 1 2 3 4 5
3) if something is going to attack/hit u -&--#62; use dodge and move a bit more behind and start repeating 1 2 3 4 5
And for those who keep telling ''It is just start it will get harder'' and better
No it just gets more boring after u have tested every skill and skill difficult WONT go so high as u probably think
really only thing what u need to save is dodge and that is. If u can't beat target with spamming randomly skills + using correctly dodge you can't beat it u are under lvled since there is no difference with that will u save some skill later or not (if it is not dodge nor skill that doesn't deal dmg)

TL DR: gw2 combat sucks

And how is tera any diffrent? You stand there mash 1-5 then move when neede and repeat. Even in that game it's the same old same. Tera is no better at combat then this game im afraid.

Edit 1- Atleast in this game all the commands are fluid and don't feel like wood. When i played "for all 20 levels i did" if i tried to dodge as a melee GL you have to dodge 3 seconds BEFORE the mob/players ability goes off otherwise your *ed. Same with the abilities for something calling itself an "action" mmo i felt locked down 90% of the time even as a melee. In GW2 i can move while attacking yes some abilities lock you down but most leave you free to move and keep on with the fight. As a melee i can actually fight a CC heavy caster and be on the same playing field BECAUSE i can move while attacking. Tera didn't give me that option.

Edited by Merdur, 28 April 2012 - 02:30 PM.


#44 Tyranno

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:26 PM

View PostTeste, on 28 April 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

That's because you are still in the starting zones. If you spam your skills against any enemy outside of the tutorial, you won't be able to use the skills when you actually need them, or when the proper opportunity to use them is there. The "benefit" of holding back is in knowing when it's the best possible opportunity to use each skill - in other words, being a skilled player.

In less words, learn to play. Seriously. Anyone can stand still spamming skills, and that will lead you past the tutorial.

Pretty much this. Once I got a bit higher in level, spamming just ends up with me not having what I need when I need it. Especially utlity skills.

I will admit some skills seem to be meant to be used on cd but spamming them just because you can? No. Take a greatsword warrior for example. Spam whirlwind, or whatever its called. Yes you can hit an enemy with it, but unless you have a large group its useless and you just wasted it.

Though I will admit. Stomping a charging dolyak for no other reason than to watch the thing go flying through the air is worth it even if I die by not having it off CD. Priceless.

Edited by Tyranno, 28 April 2012 - 02:28 PM.


#45 DusK

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:27 PM

If you think the combat sucks because you choose to spam, then by all means, stop playing and go back to WoW (irony, considering WoW revolves exclusively around spamming rotations regardless of class). The fewer bad players trying to get into dungeons when the game is released, the better.

#46 Feriluce

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:29 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Maybe grindy wasn't the right word.... I guess I meant "unnecessary" especially as you say, it takes like 10 minutes at most.

I dont think so. It makes you appreciate each skill and forces you to play a bit with it before moving on to the next one. Gives you a much faster understanding of your weapon set that you would get if you just got all of them thrown in your face immediately.

#47 nf_zeta

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:32 PM

View PostTyranno, on 28 April 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

snip
Though I will admit. Stomping a charging dolyak for no other reason than to watch the thing go flying through the air is worth it even if I die by not having it off CD. Priceless.

meh, that can't compare to the guardian's banish skill on the hammer ;)
That or those big acient looking trees that give players a swipe of a branch and launch them away with a "ahhhhh" that is so comical :)

I say that alone proves the combat system isn't the problem here

Edited by nf_zeta, 28 April 2012 - 02:33 PM.


#48 silencium

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:33 PM

I played a mesmer and engineer till now and i dont find it spammy. You have to keep in mind that indeed dodge can save you and also your positioning. Sure in starterzones you can get away with it but if you make progres in the game it gets harder.  If you attack 3 npc solo how will you handle it, just buttom smashing or you use a stun, a buff, etc.... well it's still beta ofc... and there can be mayor tweaks. Sure they will look at the numbers after this beta. The game is just great, a lot of action, no static quests, .... i just like it....

#49 Kyonyo

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:37 PM

View Postnf_zeta, on 28 April 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

i realise we still haven't gotten a answer on where this experience happened or at least a lvl range to get an idea of what it would be like in relation to the lvl of content.

Adding a resource to the skills would just force rotations while dis-couraging using your skills on a situational basis, its more of an illusion of a complex combat, now Kyonyo replied to my post saying its 100% the combat system, now i would like to see how he came to that conclusion.

All i'm saying is that people seem to be taking the easiest content and the fact that you can spam the few skills you would have at that point and saying the combat system on a whole is bad, that IMO isn't a very reasonable or proper analysis.
Well can't u come some conclusion if u have played around 30% of the game?
http://www.guildwars...__fromsearch__1
Anyways it is pretty much just my opinion. You might like the style how combat works. I don't so much. Anyways I like pretty much everything else in gw2 like just walking around and so on ^^

#50 Horrorscope

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

I think I'm the only one in NA that is playing C9, but right now that game has the best combat. It's pure action and if anyone here knows Kingdom of Amular, it's like that but even deeper. What is cool is they have push button skills like the rest, but they have many other skills that fire off using movement keys, mouse buttons and other keys. Really giving you a ton of combat options. All in realtime action. It's all instanced though or small group PvP. RaiderZ I believe is attempting this or something close but in open world, on top of that they state they are making the game hard enough where you HAVE TO GROUP, to bring back community and if one doesn't like that, that is fine but that is the niche they want, they want to bring back real grouping again.

I played Tera, their combat model wasn't bad either. I'd rate GW2 and Tera about even overall in model, even though they are different. The part of Tera that turned me off is pasture hunting and perfectly directing me everywhere all the time. It's just too dumbed down there. GW2 seems better there.

Just giving out some insight to those that may care.

Edited by Horrorscope, 28 April 2012 - 02:43 PM.


#51 nf_zeta

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:47 PM

View PostKyonyo, on 28 April 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Well can't u come some conclusion if u have played around 30% of the game?
http://www.guildwars...__fromsearch__1
Anyways it is pretty much just my opinion. You might like the style how combat works. I don't so much. Anyways I like pretty much everything else in gw2 like just walking around and so on ^^

Indeed you can come to certain conclusions but based on your initial post it seemed you played the traditional stay back and DPS behind allies sort of playstyle, this may also be the reason for your opinion.

As for coming to conclusions you can come to the conclusion that, playing the way you have in the lower lvls results in a fairly boring spam fest (although i don't see how this is so different from most other games) but you can't simply say the combat sucks as you did without showing an actual reason based on its mechanics mixed with an extended amount of play (about half the lvls, as i doubt you have played 30% of GW2, maybe not even 30% of the beta)

Edited by nf_zeta, 28 April 2012 - 02:49 PM.


#52 Kyonyo

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:51 PM

View Postnf_zeta, on 28 April 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Indeed you can come to certain conclusions but based on your initial post it seemed you played the traditional stay back and DPS behind allies sort of playstyle, this may also be the reason for your opinion.

As for coming to conclusions you can come to the conclusion that, playing the way you have in the lower lvls results in a fairly boring spam fest (although i don't see how this is so different from most other games) but you can't simply say the combat sucks as you did without showing an actual reason based on its mechanics mixed with an extended amount of play (about half the lvls, as i doubt you have played 30% of GW2, maybe not even 30% of the beta)
I have been in 3beta played with all 3 races nearly with every profession and sorry not 30% forgot to remove 2 race areas for that % since you can't get into those areas

''you have in the lower lvls'' can't remember was it directly from anet worker (prob not anyways can't remeber) said that you can spam pretty much whole content if u want to since the difficult doesn't increase so much.
Anyways even I don't like the skill system doesn't mean that u wont ^^

Edited by Kyonyo, 28 April 2012 - 02:58 PM.


#53 Lethality

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:59 PM

View PostFeriluce, on 28 April 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

I dont think so. It makes you appreciate each skill and forces you to play a bit with it before moving on to the next one. Gives you a much faster understanding of your weapon set that you would get if you just got all of them thrown in your face immediately.

That's exactly the problem... I don't appreciate each skill, because they essentially are given to me all at once with a mini grind. Doing it this way is entirely unnecessary.

#54 Lethality

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

Here's the bottom line... the combat system is different than other MMOs, and that's a good thing.

The bad thing is that in an of itself, it sucks. It needs to make more sense to players earlier, or they won't stick with it and chalk it up to another wasted $60 MMO.

#55 XPhiler

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

That's exactly the problem... I don't appreciate each skill, because they essentially are given to me all at once with a mini grind. Doing it this way is entirely unnecessary.

So unless I am missunderstanding you now is you think every skill is useless simply because it is too easy to aquire?

Look neighter Guild wars nor Guild wars 2 is your every day MMO, they are both designed to apply to both casual players and to Pros. Ignoring what each skills does might be enough for some challenges but you'll fail in the harder ones.

What I am getting from you comments is you're complaining that the game doesnt force you to learn and use the skill to their fullest right from the start and in each and every challenge you face. You have to understand that what you're suggesting is a bad thing, being free to play the way you want is what makes gw special. If you're a player who's looking to just log in a game and have fun without having to worry about what works well with what and all that thinking you can for the most part. If like you, you're looking for depth, its there as well because while apporaching combat adhoc might get you there in some cases, doing it right, will not just get you there faster but allow you to face far greater challenges...

If a player is looking for depth but doesnt even take the time to see what each skill does and how it works, they only have themselves to blame. If the game were to force you to play "right" from the begning it would just make it very hard for biggers and casual players who might think the game is just too hard from them and give up!

#56 DusK

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:18 PM

View PostLethality, on 28 April 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

it sucks.
No. It doesn't. And though you can get away with being absolutely terrible at this game at earlier levels, you won't be able to later on. Everyone else who actually has played a game other than some run-of-the-mill MMO knows this already.

Edited by Chalky, 28 April 2012 - 04:14 PM.
personal attacks


#57 nf_zeta

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

View PostKyonyo, on 28 April 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

I have been in 3beta played with all 3 races nearly with every profession and sorry not 30% forgot to remove 2 race areas for that % since you can't get into those areas

''you have in the lower lvls'' can't remember was it directly from anet worker (prob not anyways can't remeber) said that you can spam pretty much whole content if u want to since the difficult doesn't increase so much.
Anyways even I don't like the skill system doesn't mean that u wont ^^

Doubt who you heard this from was from the arena net staff as they don't usually talk about their game like this plus the fact that Orr and elite events exists as what they consider harder content i don't think this would be the case

#58 Rainfall

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:49 PM

I just see someone who doesn't understand the game much. If you spam like that in PvP you will lose to anyone who knows what they're doing. I mean really is that what you do? You just randomly spam 1-5?

First of all 2-5 actually have cooldowns so it's impossible to spam anyway. Second on my warrior for example some abilities are for crippling a target some are for aoe. You're a bad player if you're just spamming those skills. Also will you tell me you spam 6-10 too?

The resource system in this game is cooldowns. What do you honestly believe adding a resource will do? Nothing. If they add resources then it makes the game alot harder to balance and more random straight away.


TL:DR If you spam abilties you're bad and will lose to a good player. Nothing more to say. Cooldowns are fine, pvp is paced well.

Edit:Hmm well i'm talking about PvP i guess you're talking about PVE. Well, news flash, don't expect most leveling to be terribly hard with you having to time exact cooldowns. But expect a number of harder dynamic events, dungeons and explorable dungeons especially to force you to time the right skill at the right time.

Edited by Rainfall, 28 April 2012 - 03:54 PM.


#59 Forest of Souls

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:59 PM

I like it, to be honest. No resource to worry about means I can concentrate more on what's around me, which can get rather chaotic at times. (ok, so I caved and played the beta even though I said I wouldn't :o )

#60 Kurko

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:02 PM

Yes, being a melee in an elite event with a boss that hits twice as hard as your health bar is *ing ridiculous.