242 replies to this topic

[The Prestige]

woah woah woah... I LOVE that there is no resource system.  You are entitled to your opinions. BUT, there are people like myself where this is a breath of fresh air.

[davidoduck]

Guardian of Light, on 28 April 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

woah woah woah... I LOVE that there is no resource system.  You are entitled to your opinions. BUT, there are people like myself where this is a breath of fresh air.

I have to agree, I love not a resource system, I can focus more on what I'm doing rather than a blue bar.

[Vorch]

hmmm...the only skill that goes off on cool down for me is my autoattack. I'm using a bow warrior:

1. If enemy is approaching, use the crippling skill
2. if enemy is next to me, use blinding skill and kite
3. if a mass of enemies, use AoE
4. If enemy is close, Blind skill on CD and not dodge, use multiarrow thing.

Don't remember skill names, just descriptions XD

For ME at least, it's not a 123 spam...infact, I gimp my self if I use my AoE or blind incorrectly

[cataphract]

nf_zeta, on 28 April 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

not sure what you mean as i myself haven't played the game yet but their is footage of devs playing and its definitely just not spamming. Also even if it was adding a resource would not fix this problem it would only encourage it as instead of using skills based on situation people would find the rotation which works with that resource and simply stick with it.

If you were able to spam skills it could be for two reasons:
1. You were playing low/easy content and therefore got away with it
2. The difficulty of the mobs needs to be raised a bit to encourage using skills at the right time along with probably some minor changes in skills but the combat itself is by no means boring PvP has proved that its just that the PvE part of the game doesn't demand a high lvl of skill as a requisit as is usually the case in MMORPGs

Or
3. The cooldown for the majority of the skills are so long, and the absence of Energy pool means that the best way for you to dish out damage and survive is simply cast whatever you have that is off cooldown.

The best I've seen this game pull off in combat is you strategically planning the first 2 skills based on the mob type/situation. Everything else following them are merely fillers so you can dish out more damage.

[Bipolar Flare]

Feriluce, on 28 April 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Tera is just a hotkey mmo with a targeting reticule. It really doesn't compare to GW2 combat in any way.

Anyway, I kinda felt this way in the beginning, and combat felt a bit repetetive in pve. However I think its actually slowly getting better as I get better as well. Using the correct skill in the correct situation is whats going to have to pull this combat system through.

That's it. Right there. Over time, I too have noticed my gameplay improving beyond skill spamming as difficulty increased especially in Personal Stories where I find myself timing my skills and carefully watching enemy movement. Now the game feels the way I expected it to.

[cataphract]

nf_zeta, on 28 April 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

lol, if you say so but do you agree or disagree that the combat itself isn't the problem but its compatibility with the current state of PvE, because in the video i watched the dev was watching which skills he was using and whenever he slacked on that because he was commentating he died, granted the mobs he was fighting were 2 lvls above but you can't expect to have PvE over a certain difficulty when the lvls are equal or the player has a lvl advantage especially in the lower lvls and when your not in a elite dynamic event or any content that is meant to be more difficult, arena net never said that spamming would disappear from MMOs as it probably won't, not in the fore-seeable future anyway.

So my question is during your spamming what lvl was the mob and what lvl were you, after all this is a discussion thread so you'll see won't cut it.

No, the fundamentals of the combat system is at fault.
1. No penalty for using wrong skills   (i.e. GW Frenzy while being hit, mistiming shadow form)
2. No Energy Pool to conserve for optimization    (Why save spells for the most optimal mob when you can just keep cycling through your skill bar?)
3. No Synergy within the same skill bar (i.e. Ebon Hawk + Stoning)
4. Majority of Skills are Dual use. (Guardian's mace attack (forgot which 1), heals and damages at the same time. This means the Guardian doesn't even need to deliberately try to heal or help out injured friendlies, and instead, he is free to just spam his normal attack routine.

[Shadok]

Spamming skills does not work later on.. believe me. Play a bit further, I've played TERA and it is not the same. Once you get weapon swapping and utilities, it changes everything. I find myself constantly dodging, using leap attacks to evade, pulling off hits when I can, swapping to my hammer if I need to split up a mob, using snares, etc. It's only spamming when your only skills are 1-5, once you get 6-0 + 1-5 #2 (swapped weapon) it's a completely different game.

Also, there are definitely penalties for using the wrong skill. Use a leap near a ledge or into a mob and you'll die, use an elite form and you'll lose your skill bar (unless you cancel your elite, which takes that away for a while). Use stomp when they're mobbed up and AoE is now useless. No synergy of skills? Try the F1 then hundred blades with warrior, you'll double your damage which is huge already. Try using a lunge followed by stomp. I haven't gotten into other classes or cross class combos yet. Also, there is no energy pool for skills but there is a cooldown on every skill except your #1. This cooldown can EASILY hurt you. I've had times where I lunged too far, stomped out of range, then they rushed me and stomp was on recharge so I was an easy target and had to run for my life. This like this happen easily and the further you go the harder it gets.

Edited by Shadok, 28 April 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[cataphract]

XPhiler, on 28 April 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

its not a question of tutorial or not, game gets progressively harder, I can tell you the final boss in the norn area was not a walk in the park at all!

anyhow so you people are finding nothing challenging and didnt even die once so far? cause I do find it a bit hard to believe!

Well, I am level 11, got a level 15 skill point event.

Unless the game suddenly decides to throw a curve ball, I can say that me being a level 11 fighting in level 15 is a fair representation of harder areas in game.

Now, as the Guardian, the way I use skills is:

I have 2 "Barriers", 2 CC with damage, 1 Heal, 2 Attack only skills.

Order of battle is, drop which ever barrier is appropriate(Range vs Melee derp), and spam the 2 attack only skills until they go off cooldown. If all is good, I keep spamming the CCs. If all isn't good, roll away, heal, and repeat.

This, while isn't pure "Spam" per se, it is however very thoughtless, and has little consequences for mistakes thanks to the rolls.

Compared to GW1, I don't need to consider who to attack, the specific order of skills, how much energy I have left and if I have enough to keep fighting, if teammates are getting flanked, the exact locations and status of teammates (yeah, this is how friends get lost), the reliance on teammates, etc.

[Butcher]

Cataphract would "play on", but he's too busy complaining about how your skills should be more in-depth than calculus at level 3.

Wrong about the Guardian hammer strike. It doesn't heal you that much and only lasts for, hmmm, 3 seconds? It's great in a pinch before or after using your heal, or activating your virtue of righteousness.

There most definitely is a thought process that has to go into battle, even at level 1-5. You'd just rather complain about how much you suck at the game than actually play it.

[cataphract]

Butcher, on 28 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Anyone who complains about how level 1-20 combat is "spam-fest" is missing the point of any kind of low level combat in any MMO you've ever played. WoW was no different, ie "spam crusader strike for 24 levels".

Could you mouth breathers please wait for levels 30+ before making judgements about the combat at the very least? Also, if you're dying, then you're not doing it right. L2 dodge, don't blame the game for you being a shitty player.

LOL Tera.

I have seen loads of gameplay of this, and I see no difference what so ever as the later Utility skills don't add much to your arsenal/synergy/skill use. The only thing that makes a bit of a difference is the Elite skill, which in no way does it help with the "spammy" nature of the combat system.

[cataphract]

Shadok, on 28 April 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Spamming skills does not work later on.. believe me. Play a bit further, I've played TERA and it is not the same. Once you get weapon swapping and utilities, it changes everything. I find myself constantly dodging, using leap attacks to evade, pulling off hits when I can, swapping to my hammer if I need to split up a mob, using snares, etc. It's only spamming when your only skills are 1-5, once you get 6-0 + 1-5 #2 (swapped weapon) it's a completely different game.

Also, there are definitely penalties for using the wrong skill. Use a leap near a ledge or into a mob and you'll die, use an elite form and you'll lose your skill bar (unless you cancel your elite, which takes that away for a while). Use stomp when they're mobbed up and AoE is now useless. No synergy of skills? Try the F1 then hundred blades with warrior, you'll double your damage which is huge already. Try using a lunge followed by stomp. I haven't gotten into other classes or cross class combos yet. Also, there is no energy pool for skills but there is a cooldown on every skill except your #1. This cooldown can EASILY hurt you. I've had times where I lunged too far, stomped out of range, then they rushed me and stomp was on recharge so I was an easy target and had to run for my life. This like this happen easily and the further you go the harder it gets.

Disagree here. Firstly, Rolling/Dodging has no impact on skill spam as the vast majority of the skills cast quickly, and can be done on the move.

Secondly, As a Guardian, the only difference between different sets of weapons, is for 2 generic situations, Large Groups vs Small Groups. No matter what you switch to, you will pop the ONE skill you want to use from that weapon set, then resume the "Spamming".

Thirdly, Leaping wrongly into a mob doesn't actually put you in a bad situation necessarily, as it is so easy to roll/dash your way out. The cooldowns play a double edged sword here. They both do a little bit of penalty for wrong use of skills (Minimized by the fact that most CCs last a very short period of time, or have limited effects), but it also promotes skill spamming, as what else are you going to do when all of your viable skills are on cooldown?

As for rushing forwards... I have no level 30 experience, closest I've got was in PvP. And as a Guardian... I've literally been able to tank 5 people in organized pvp for 15-20 seconds, by myself (I was luring them to attack me so teammates would capture the other 2 flags).

Finally, I think you are missing the point of the discussion.

It isn't that we are claiming by level 30, you will just be doing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 and repeat, or randomly spam anyone.

I for one, am claiming that in combat, there are a few skills you reserve for whatever purpose, but everything else you basically just "spam" away.

Edited by cataphract, 28 April 2012 - 04:49 PM.

[XPhiler]

cataphract, on 28 April 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

No, the fundamentals of the combat system is at fault.
1. No penalty for using wrong skills   (i.e. GW Frenzy while being hit, mistiming shadow form)
2. No Energy Pool to conserve for optimization (Why save spells for the most optimal mob when you can just keep cycling through your skill bar?)
3. No Synergy within the same skill bar (i.e. Ebon Hawk + Stoning)
4. Majority of Skills are Dual use. (Guardian's mace attack (forgot which 1), heals and damages at the same time. This means the Guardian doesn't even need to deliberately try to heal or help out injured friendlies, and instead, he is free to just spam his normal attack routine.

1. You do get a penalty for using the wrong skill, penalty beign you do less damage, you do not get the bonuses you would get by using the right skill.

2. Thats intended, whats the point of having a skill you never use except once in a long while? Skills in GW2 arent meant to be concerved, only to be used in their right context. The problem is not having the skill ready because its on cool down or worst yet, you lost the chance to use a better skill for a second or so because you used the wrong skill for the situation

3.  Not sure what classes you're using but on the mesmer there is synergy, using Mirror blade provides bonuses to spatial surge and phantasm beserker makes kiting easier.

4. didnt play guardian but i bet the attack your talking about doesnt heal enough to keep everyone alive in a tough fight! and good chance it might have a cool down and does less damage then other attacks. So what you have to ask in that situation is, do you require to heal people at that moment?, would it be more beneficial to kill the npc then to heal people at that time? etc.. etc.. Is the ration of PC to NPC large enough to make the damage sacrifce worth while?

[cataphract]

XPhiler, on 28 April 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

1. You do get a penalty for using the wrong skill, penalty beign you do less damage, you do not get the bonuses you would get by using the right skill.

2. Thats intended, whats the point of having a skill you never use except once in a long while? Skills in GW2 arent meant to be concerved, only to be used in their right context. The problem is not having the skill ready because its on cool down or worst yet, you lost the chance to use a better skill for a second or so because you used the wrong skill for the situation

3.  Not sure what classes you're using but on the mesmer there is synergy, using Mirror blade provides bonuses to spatial surge and phantasm beserker makes kiting easier.

4. didnt play guardian but i bet the attack your talking about doesnt heal enough to keep everyone alive in a tough fight! and good chance it might have a cool down and does less damage then other attacks. So what you have to ask in that situation is, do you require to heal people at that moment?, would it be more beneficial to kill the npc then to heal people at that time? etc.. etc.. Is the ration of PC to NPC large enough to make the damage sacrifce worth while?

1. 90% of the time, you do not do less damage as there is no synergy between the skills.
2. So that you cannot spam it, and require some thought for its use? if you can and will use every skill frequently in all situations, where is the thought behind their use?
3. Right... in what way does Mirror Blade Synergize with Spatial Surge? And is it as significant as... say Wastrels Worry + Backfire?
4. No skill heals enough to allies or self to keep them alive except HEAL itself. This is another problem that prevents say Guardians to reserve that healing attack skill for use to save allies. As in, an actual teamwork mechanic. Instead, it is just another skill in the cycle of spammed skills.

Speaking of healing... I ROFLed when I saw the amount of non-heal healing skills/actions did for Guardians...

25 HP @ level 2? for the bubble? I mean really? It isn't even enough to mitigate 1 hit from a level 2 mob.

Edited by cataphract, 28 April 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[XPhiler]

cataphract, on 28 April 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Well, I am level 11, got a level 15 skill point event.

Unless the game suddenly decides to throw a curve ball, I can say that me being a level 11 fighting in level 15 is a fair representation of harder areas in game.

Now, as the Guardian, the way I use skills is:

I have 2 "Barriers", 2 CC with damage, 1 Heal, 2 Attack only skills.

Order of battle is, drop which ever barrier is appropriate(Range vs Melee derp), and spam the 2 attack only skills until they go off cooldown. If all is good, I keep spamming the CCs. If all isn't good, roll away, heal, and repeat.

This, while isn't pure "Spam" per se, it is however very thoughtless, and has little consequences for mistakes thanks to the rolls.

Compared to GW1, I don't need to consider who to attack, the specific order of skills, how much energy I have left and if I have enough to keep fighting, if teammates are getting flanked, the exact locations and status of teammates (yeah, this is how friends get lost), the reliance on teammates, etc.

Depends what that level 15 skill point involved. most skill points are pretty easy to get, if it was something on the lines of at level 11 you soloed the son's of svanir's champion at the dragonblest hold, then I would be truely impressed but saying you got lvl 15 point at level 11 doesnt really mean anything.

And anyhow like you yourself said, you arent exactly spamming, you have a strategy that you're following, Barrier, open with max damage, then do crowd control for as long as you can, when that fails dodge away and heal. Nothing random to it at all! just cause you repeat the same strategy it doesnt mean its not strategy!

[Sprawl]

Why are you spamming a low damage utility speed debuff on mobs in melee range?  And no mention of weapon swapping? Lol bads.

Edited by Sprawl, 28 April 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[cataphract]

XPhiler, on 28 April 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Depends what that level 15 skill point involved. most skill points are pretty easy to get, if it was something on the lines of at level 11 you soloed the son's of svanir's champion at the dragonblest hold, then I would be truely impressed but saying you got lvl 15 point at level 11 doesnt really mean anything.

It was one underwater in the swamp with a veteran level 15 guardian that attacks you and thusly interrupting the "Channel" to unlock the skill point. Keep in mind, I had no skills unlocked for my underwater weapon either.

XPhiler, on 28 April 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

And anyhow like you yourself said, you arent exactly spamming, you have a strategy that you're following, Barrier, open with max damage, then do crowd control for as long as you can, when that fails dodge away and heal. Nothing random to it at all! just cause you repeat the same strategy it doesnt mean its not strategy!

I consider this spamming because, while the first skill had some thought involved, the rest just boiled down to spam until barrier can be put up again, then repeat.

It isn't strategic because other than my barriers, I, nor my teammates can benefit from anything else I do. The CCs last far too short to be of any use to get rid of more than 1 enemy.

In GW1, the warrior would be responsible for tanking, snaring, some interrupting, etc. All while trying to conserve his energy, his life, so he would often not spam any skills except the cycle of synergized order of defenses, while using snares and interrupts at key moments.

Edited by cataphract, 28 April 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Lethality]

Guardian of Light, on 28 April 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

woah woah woah... I LOVE that there is no resource system.  You are entitled to your opinions. BUT, there are people like myself where this is a breath of fresh air.

It screams boring simplicity.Why WOULD"T you want a moire complex resource system than initiative?

Sprawl, on 28 April 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Why are you spamming a low damage utility speed debuff on mobs in melee range?  And no mention of weapon swapping? Lol bads.

Bads game developers you mean.

[cataphract]

Sprawl, on 28 April 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Why are you spamming a low damage utility speed debuff on mobs in melee range?  And no mention of weapon swapping? Lol bads.

because the low damage utility speed debuff does more damage than the auto attack, and everything else is on cooldown.

[XPhiler]

cataphract, on 28 April 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

1. 90% of the time, you do not do less damage as there is no synergy between the skills.
2. So that you cannot spam it, and require some thought for its use? if you can and will use every skill frequently in all situations, where is the thought behind their use?
3. Right... in what way does Mirror Blade Synergize with Spatial Surge? And is it as significant as... say Wastrels Worry + Backfire?
4. No skill heals enough to allies or self to keep them alive except HEAL itself. This is another problem that prevents say Guardians to reserve that healing attack skill for use to save allies. As in, an actual teamwork mechanic.

1. on the mesmer that I play thats completely untrue. I have skills that are useless against melee npcs, and I have skills that are useless against Ranged NPCs and I have skills that are useless again npcs that do not use skills.  Even distance place a role. If get upclose to an enemy with my greatsword and auto attack the first skill I do 17 dmg. If i get exectly within range of my mirror blade skill against say a ranged npc and I cast, mirror blade, mind stab and mirrored feedback before then going for the same spatial surge, I will do 30 dmg instead of 17 for a while 6s and every projectile attack the npc does does damage to it.  so the difference we're talking about in the first 6s is with no strategy i would simply do  102dmg to it and take normal damage and using a proper strategy I would do 180dmg + whatever damage he does and I take 0 damage. If I spam skills randomly I might cast phantasmal berserker against it which slows him down 50% for 6, but whats the use it doesnt charge at me since its range. Bottom line the way I use my skill makes a big difference

2. Thats not what I said, I said you have to think which skill applies to your present situation not use all skills all the time. Like I said, using phantasmal berserker on a range NPC would be a complete waste as I do not need to slow down a range npc, A melee npc on the other hand is a different story. There a slow done helps me to kite it and get the range i need to do maximum damage with the great sword.

3. Indirectly Yes, Mirror blade increases damage of Spacial Blade by actually increasing my might. further more it does its own damage and I can use it to inflict conditions and damage. Wastrels Worry + Backfire is just a trap doomed if you do, doomed more if you don't. The synergy is indirect as well. they are not effecting each other, they are just complementing each other the same like the case I mention. In GW you would need to decide if you're gonna use a skill and take slightly larger damage or wait and have everyone around you take damage. Here you have to decide If you're gonna attack the Mirror blade, gving more life to the attacking player but reducing their damage in the long run or take higher damage but focusing on the player knowing that they can trigger nasty conditions such as -7 health degeration by shattering the illusion everytime you use a skill. Dont really see the difference

4. But again whats the price of that heal? how much more damage could you be doing if you chosen a more damage centric skill that might also boost allies? its always a balance!

[XPhiler]

cataphract, on 28 April 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

It was one underwater in the swamp with a veteran level 15 guardian that attacks you and thusly interrupting the "Channel" to unlock the skill point. Keep in mind, I had no skills unlocked for my underwater weapon either.



I consider this spamming because, while the first skill had some thought involved, the rest just boiled down to spam until barrier can be put up again, then repeat.

It isn't strategic because other than my barriers, I, nor my teammates can benefit from anything else I do. The CCs last far too short to be of any use to get rid of more than 1 enemy.

In GW1, the warrior would be responsible for tanking, snaring, some interrupting, etc. All while trying to conserve his energy, his life, so he would often not spam any skills except the cycle of synergized order of defenses, while using snares and interrupts at key moments.

And tell me realistically in GW1, how many times did you change the order of skills of your build? cause I rarely if ever do it. skills interact with each other in a specific way. your current setup would be completely ineffective if done in reverse IE. heal then dodge, then attack, then crowd control and then barriers? That implies strategy, if you do it in the wrong order it will simply be ineffective and you die even against an average mob most likely!

[XPhiler]

Lethality, on 28 April 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

It screams boring simplicity.Why WOULD"T you want a moire complex resource system than initiative?



Bads game developers you mean.

For the milliont time, the complexity is there, you just refuse to see it.

[ItStartsAtDusK]

Lethality, on 28 April 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Bads game developers you mean.

They develop games better than you play them, that's for damn sure. And lol @ "boring simplicity" when you constantly praise a game where the gameplay of every single class boils down to a cookie-cutter stand-and-spam rotation. Double-standards... Double-standards everywhere.

I'm at level 15 now, and I'm definitely seeing doging and circumstantial skill use being more and more of a requirement to fight effectively. I can see why they took out the energy bar; it's really not needed when you're using your skills tactically. A cooldown system makes significantly more sense once you really get a feel for this game.

[Ballista]

City of Heroes balanced everything around animation times and damage output... and I really enjoyed that. I don't see this as a problem.
Don't Necros and Thieves have a resource system though? If you reeeally want one, play those classes.

Edited by Ballista, 28 April 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Coooturtle]

Try playing some of the harder content and while spamming your skills, see how long you last. The combat is boring because you are making it boring. For the most part, I try to avoid dmg all the time, always strafing out of the way of attacks. 1v1 fights with bosses show this off the most. Because if they land a hit on you, they can kill you in a few shots. If your in group combat, and your just in the back spamming projectiles at the guy, then thats completely your fault. But also remember that, in every group fight, there are people at the front tanking, meleeing, you just decided to do something different then them, which is sitting at the back shooting arrows, and this has always been the same with every MMO, and thats kinda the point of using ranged weapons.

[cataphract]

XPhiler, on 28 April 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

1. on the mesmer that I play thats completely untrue. I have skills that are useless against melee npcs, and I have skills that are useless against Ranged NPCs and I have skills that are useless again npcs that do not use skills.  Even distance place a role. If get upclose to an enemy with my greatsword and auto attack the first skill I do 17 dmg. If i get exectly within range of my mirror blade skill against say a ranged npc and I cast, mirror blade, mind stab and mirrored feedback before then going for the same spatial surge, I will do 30 dmg instead of 17 for a while 6s and every projectile attack the npc does does damage to it.  so the difference we're talking about in the first 6s is with no strategy i would simply do  102dmg to it and take normal damage and using a proper strategy I would do 180dmg + whatever damage he does and I take 0 damage. If I spam skills randomly I might cast phantasmal berserker against it which slows him down 50% for 6, but whats the use it doesnt charge at me since its range. Bottom line the way I use my skill makes a big difference

If you slowed it, then followed with your little combo there, you'd do more damage than if you didn't use slow it, and autoattacked instead afterwards.

And here lies a key issue. Most skills do damage unconditionally even if it is primarily used for its secondary. This, along with lack of an energy pool, makes the spamming very viable. I'm sure Mesmers have a lot more intricacies than other classes, but that has always been the case with GW. Consider any of the others.

Quote

2. Thats not what I said, I said you have to think which skill applies to your present situation not use all skills all the time. Like I said, using phantasmal berserker on a range NPC would be a complete waste as I do not need to slow down a range npc, A melee npc on the other hand is a different story. There a slow done helps me to kite it and get the range i need to do maximum damage with the great sword.

But the slow doesn't last long enough time, nor does it slow him enough during that time, nor what it would do to you upon reaching you make it worth saving for. Simply move away earlier, and wait for your skills to recharge, all in the meanwhile, just kite and spam.

Quote

3. Indirectly Yes, Mirror blade increases damage of Spacial Blade by actually increasing my might. further more it does its own damage and I can use it to inflict conditions and damage. Wastrels Worry + Backfire is just a trap doomed if you do, doomed more if you don't. The synergy is indirect as well. they are not effecting each other, they are just complementing each other the same like the case I mention. In GW you would need to decide if you're gonna use a skill and take slightly larger damage or wait and have everyone around you take damage. Here you have to decide If you're gonna attack the Mirror blade, gving more life to the attacking player but reducing their damage in the long run or take higher damage but focusing on the player knowing that they can trigger nasty conditions such as -7 health degeration by shattering the illusion everytime you use a skill. Dont really see the difference

Might, at the moment, doesn't do enough bonuses to justify anything.

Quote

4. But again whats the price of that heal? how much more damage could you be doing if you chosen a more damage centric skill that might also boost allies? its always a balance!

It is a fast-ish recharging skill, so it will always be in the spamming list. It also does roughly 80% the damage compared to the only more powerful skill. That is not a viable reason to ignore the spamming of this skill.

[jseo22]

So... reading through this entire thread, all I see is a very few vocal minority that is expressing their discontent with the combat system. I actually happen to enjoy it very much, and to me it looks like many of the other tens of thousands playing at the moment also enjoy it. (And it really looks like one guy stirring up a lot of debate on here, talking like only his opinion and logic matters...)

[XPhiler]

cataphract, on 28 April 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

If you slowed it, then followed with your little combo there, you'd do more damage than if you didn't use slow it, and autoattacked instead afterwards.

And here lies a key issue. Most skills do damage unconditionally even if it is primarily used for its secondary. This, along with lack of an energy pool, makes the spamming very viable. I'm sure Mesmers have a lot more intricacies than other classes, but that has always been the case with GW. Consider any of the others.





But the slow doesn't last long enough time, nor does it slow him enough during that time, nor what it would do to you upon reaching you make it worth saving for. Simply move away earlier, and wait for your skills to recharge, all in the meanwhile, just kite and spam.




Might, at the moment, doesn't do enough bonuses to justify anything.




It is a fast-ish recharging skill, so it will always be in the spamming list. It also does roughly 80% the damage compared to the only more powerful skill. That is not a viable reason to ignore the spamming of this skill.

I did a little experiment, its not scientific by any sort of measure but it gives you an idea that really proper skill order makes a difference. I attacked an icebrood elemental, in 1 case i stood still and spamed basic attack, needless to say I died. second case I used skills in order, as soon as a skill comes out of cool down I would use it and moved around, dodged etc.. cause that dieing part was a bit useless. killed it in 1m 35s. Second time I did a proper attack, IE. mirror blade, mind stab, mirrored feedback, jumped back to get range and used spatial surge after the 6 seconds expired I used Mind wrack, jumped in range to cast mirror blade, jumped back, attacked again and it was dead in 22seconds!

Big difference, dont you think?

[superdfc]

Currently I'm playing a thief and I haven't experience this at all. I've been using the stealth and extra damage while flanking / breaking stealth to great effect.

It's proven very effective in both the PVE and PVP.

Try focusing on setting up combos and position. Then maybe you'd find the combat more interesting. The mobs don't auto lock on to you, so positioning yourself behind the mob is actually possible.

[Esaru]

Lethality, on 28 April 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I think Anet has some work to do if the suggestion is to "oh, wait until level 30!!!!"

You know the biggest problem? They have no incentive to make changes or keep us happy - we already bought the game. They don't have to worry about if we "cancel" or not.

well frankly I think you're in the minority that hates the combat. Even still, you're playing the very early levels of the game that is basically a tutorial in every other MMO. What do you expect?

[NeHoMaR]

If you are spamming skills, you are doing it wrong. The only skill for spam is the number 1, read description of your skills and play with strategy.

(of course some enemies are so easy that you can just spam things and still win)