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Chaotic Energy: A quickfix to the Shatter Illusions problem

mesmer shatter illusions mesmer problems clones mind wrack

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#1 Zebes

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:40 AM

Chaotic Energy would be a new class mechanic system not too far removed from the current one.

Chaotic Energy - Every time you create an illusion, you gain one charge of chaotic energy. Chaotic Energy does not dissipate when your illusions are destroyed.
  • Cry of Frustration - Has been removed. Instead, every time your illusions are destroyed, confusion is applied to the foe who destroys them. An extra stack of confusion is added for each current charge of Chaotic Energy.
  • Mind Wrack - Use up all current Chaotic Energy to send a spiral of chaos at the target's head. Damage done by Mind Wrack is increased with each charge of Chaotic Energy.
  • Diversion - Use up all Chaotic Energy to daze the target for 1s per charge of Chaotic Energy
  • Distortion - Use up one charge of Chaotic Energy to grant yourself 1 sec of distortion.
New Trait - Manipulative Power : Your Manipulation skills grant a charge of Chaotic Energy.

How this opens up Mesmer design: By the charges not being tied to active illusions, weapon skills require less illusion creating skills. This opens up weapon skills to create more Mesmery abilities that create the hard choices lacking from the current Mesmer skills. By allowing the player to trait for Manipulation skills granting Chaotic Energy, the Mesmer is not forced into being a clone factory. They can roll with manipulations and still use their class mechanic.

Edited by Zebes, 02 May 2012 - 08:45 AM.


#2 Chesire

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:36 AM

Variations of this idea have been mentioned before and I support the idea except I don't really support the idea of taking away our current Shatter skills.  Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration, Diversion, and Distortion are all good skills to be able to shatter and use. The issue isn't at all with the skills or the class mechanic (Shattering), it's with the clones and the way they shatter (running at normal speed after a target).

As for Manipulative Power I'm on the fence. I like that there's an option for players not having to produce clones if they don't want too as it would give us a little more diversity and would please some people. But I also find it to be unnecessary as well. The whole idea of the Mesmer in GW2 is centered around creating clones/phantasms and to do away with that would mean changing a lot of skills which would cause a lot of separation between the two builds/designs of the class itself. I feel that the only way Anet could really pull it off without nit-picking every skill we have would be to do a complete revamp, which I feel is completely unnecessary. Given the fact that we also only have a few of Manipulation skills that I'm aware of it also makes the trait pretty limiting in ways of making it worthwhile and effective.

Just my thoughts.

Edited by Chesire, 02 May 2012 - 09:37 AM.


#3 Dastion

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:57 AM

I posted nearly the same idea on the official forums.  Except I suggested that shattered clones leave behind a shatterable particle effect and that glamours create the additional 'shatterable' effects (i.e. Mirrored Feedback leaves behind a floating particle that will shatter).  I just love seeing Illusions Shatter and I am reluctant to leave that idea behind.

As Chesire said though, a lot of players have been batting this idea around.  The current mechanic is pretty much an extremely deniable Combo Point system that encourages you to play a specific build if you want to get the most out of it.  The ephemeral nature of Illusions clashes with their dual role as a mechanic resource.  I do like this idea - even if it departs from shattering illusions.  I think the major consensus is that something needs to be done to make the mechanic more reliable as a mechanic resource while still maintaining the nature of illusions.

Illusions perform their role as temporary pets that can deal respectable damage if ignored, with Phantasms having higher damage/longer CDs, while Clones have shorter CDs and look like the player.  But they just aren't a good mechanic resource as can be seen in the first few hours of playing the game.  It's extremely difficult to manage a Shatter during the tutorial (if you even unlock the skill) - and subsequent playing repeatedly put me in situations with persistent ground effects that destroyed my clones or just enemies that hit everything near them (even behind them! Damn Ettins).

If the choice comes to keeping clones in their current ephemeral state, or losing them as direct shattered resource... then I choose keeping clones as they are.  I actually like the idea of punishing players for breaking my Illusions anyhow... and I've always loved the concept of Mages who cast a spell then redirect/salvage magic from the spell for a different effect (WAR Archmage failed me in that respect).

Edited by Dastion, 02 May 2012 - 10:02 AM.


#4 Zebes

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:09 AM

It's not just the delivery method that's the problem with the mechanic. It's the issue of mobs dying before the illusion even does a thing, making the CD a waste. It's the issue of the enemy attacking the clone reducing your class mechanic and punishing you more than them. It's the issue of illusions not shattering on siege objects because objects have no brain to manipulate. The issue is forcing people into clone factories, which is not a Mesmer design at all.

I'm trying to alleviate as many of these issues as possible.

#5 Thyar

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:51 AM

It's a great idea, Zebes.

I have come to the point that I actually support giving Mesmers such a resource, earned from conjuring illusions, which fuels our Shatters, and which cannot be casually taken away by an enemy who does little more than fart.  I'm still okay with having clones for assistance and deception, and having phantasms for pressuring enemies to make difficult choices about who to attack first - but I think that Mesmers would be well served to have a magical "chaos" resource for Shatters akin to adrenaline and initiative.

The only problem with this idea is that, unless Release is going to happen sometime in September, there just might not be enough time to make this kind of core change.

Still, I hope you suggest it on the Official Beta Forums.

#6 Chesire

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 12:38 PM

View PostZebes, on 02 May 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

It's not just the delivery method that's the problem with the mechanic. It's the issue of mobs dying before the illusion even does a thing, making the CD a waste. It's the issue of the enemy attacking the clone reducing your class mechanic and punishing you more than them. It's the issue of illusions not shattering on siege objects because objects have no brain to manipulate. The issue is forcing people into clone factories, which is not a Mesmer design at all.

I'm trying to alleviate as many of these issues as possible.

We're not arguing your point, as it is a valid one and we're all well aware of it (I hope Anet is too). So don't get the wrong idea. Your idea, apart from the new trait and change to shatters, was the same as previously mentioned ideas. Orbs being maintained even if clones were killed and making shatters instant is a good solution in regards to making the mechanic work.  The problem I foresee with this, though, is our Shatters taking a big nerf because there's no way for people to stop it from happening once we have spendable resources.

That being said, the best solution I can think of has been tossed around a lot more recently and still holds true but could still be overpowered. Basically it just means that Anet needs to make our clones take more than 1 hit to kill that isn't based on damage (I suggested two minimum, three with traits) from either AoE or direct targeting.  This way people that want clone factories have clones that can survive some punishment; people who didn't want clone factories could still produce a durable resource and enemies still have a visual que in PvP to be able to stop a shatter or at least lower the damage from them.

Next is fixing the shatter mechanic. The most popular idea is to have clones teleport to the target and then after about 0.5s or so they shatter. A skilled player can dodge the clones if they are paying attention and they aren't completely destroyed by running through AE effects or being kited.

So far those are the best ideas that I can see happening without being too overly powerful.

Edited by Chesire, 02 May 2012 - 12:39 PM.