[Konig Des Todes]

I'm surprised no one had started a thread on this yet. I was honestly expecting more than one thread resurrection from the GuildMag interview.

To recap the interview question regarding the seers:

Quote

GuildMag: In the Original Guild Wars, seers were a mysterious race, what can you tell us about them and what role will they play in either GWB or GW2?

Ree Soesbee: There have been a lot of questions about the seers and their ancient war with the mursaat. Sadly, these aren’t questions we can answer at great length without giving away some very deep secrets of the Guild Wars world. I can say that they are one of the oldest races of Tyria, dating back long before the gods brought the humans to the world; to the time of the writing of the Tome of Rubicon. In those ancient days, the seers fought against the mursaat, but they were in turn defeated by their enemies, and their civilization lost to the ravages of time.

Some remnants of that civilization, and that ancient time, still remain in modern-day Tyria (both in GW and GW2), but often, those who discover such things do not realize what they have found. There are opportunities in Guild Wars 2 to uncover some of the most ancient lore, including previous untold tidbits about the seers and their stories, but such information will be very difficult to come by.

And another thing to bring up, so that everyone knows:

Quote

Though Evennia refers to the Seer as a female, the Ancient Seers are actually genderless.

The main thing I want to discuss here, though all of the quoted portion is up for discussion, is the mention of the civilization of the seer in Guild Wars 1.

Now, the first thing to come to mind is the one seer (yes, despite what some may think, it is in fact just one seer we see, based on the dialogue - though there may be up to three if I overlooked something) that we meet in Prophecies at five different times.

I think, however, Ree wasn't referring to that, otherwise there would be no real reason to bring up GW1. We already know we meet a seer, that's why we're so curious about it. No, instead, I think Ree meant that we see structures made by the seers. And there are few spots that I can think of that are both ancient and overlooked by people.

The Depths of Tyria.

This makes perfect sense to me as well, and even went with a previous theory that I came up with when researching the depths (research can be found here, warning: Lots of scrolling via images).

My biggest piece of the connection is this:

Eye of the North Manual said:

These natural caves and excavated areas house structures left behind by civilizations dating back to a time before the arrival of humans in Tyria.

In my research, I have dissected the Depths of Tyria into five different structures, four of which can be found elsewhere:

• "Ascalonian"
  
• "Kurzick"
  
• "Riftian"
  
• "Asuran"
  
• "Crystals"

The first four are unimportant in this discussion (take that discussion to the thread linked above). I want to talk about the fifth one. These, I believe, are connected to the seers. It may even be what the no-gone city of Moladune looked like, as it fits the idea of "a shiny place of ice and stone." I believe the crystal-like structures are most definably connected to Moladune.

The only issue is that I cannot connect it to the seers, but by what Ree said, it wouldn't be possible to. And may be very hard to even in GW2.

But to further this potential connection is this:

Engineer Xapp said:

How utterly fascinating! Those enormous savages have fabricated something quite remarkable. Could this structure, perchance, be drawing the attention and ire of the Destroyers?

f my postulations are precise and this sanctuary is, indeed, a rallying point for invading Destroyers, then we shall need to expedite our descent. Otherwise, Captain Sargen's group shall be caught betwixt and between.

I highly doubt the norn crafted those crystals, and it may be that the Destroyers are after the Raven Shrine. But what if that wasn't the case and it was the crystals drawing it ass Xapp seems to imply?

The seers were around the time of the writing of the Tome of Rubicon - the chances that they witnessed, or even fought against, the elder dragons has become exceedingly high with this new knowledge. What if the Great Destroyer recognized the structures and sought to wipe out an old enemy, but time had beaten the Destroyers to the job?

Well, I think that is all, for now. Discuss!

[MooCube]

Where can I read about these Seers? Or will playing through Prophecies explain them?

Quote

Some remnants of that civilization, and that ancient time, still remain in modern-day Tyria (both in GW and GW2), but often, those who discover such things do not realize what they have found.

Do you have an example of some?

[Free Runner]

Its interesting to see that the Seers could possibly have known about the Elder Dragons due to them being around back when the Rubicon was written. And if they knew about them then it also means the Mursaat must of known aswell. Hopefully in the future of GW2 we'll find out why that war was started and what each side was fighting for.

[Konig Des Todes]

MooCube said:

Where can I read about these Seers? Or will playing through Prophecies explain them?

Do you have an example of some?

We only have three sources on the seers. 1) Prophecies campaign: Iron Mines of Moladrun, the three Ring of Fire missions, and Mineral Springs. 2) Bobby's comment on their gender. 3) Ree's answer to an interview question.

Two of them I quoted.

For your example, no. She doesn't say what are from the seers, nor do we know what are. It's mere speculation at this point on what is. But I put my thoughts and reasoning in the OP.

@Free Runner, based on "Sadly, these aren’t questions we can answer at great length without giving away some very deep secrets of the Guild Wars world" I would assume that they intend to spill the beans on the war in GW2.

[Mister_Smiley]

Hey Konig i know that you didn't add this in, but what if the Seer build the HOM as well, since there history is all but gone and it does have the crystals as part of the building somewhat, just an idea, so what do you think? But the given information does change a lot of things, the question is, in GW2 will we see more Seer?

[Konig Des Todes]

The crystal/ice is of a different style, which while I once thought that the seers would be the most likeliest race to have built the eye (and it rather still is), I'm less certain and didn't add it in because there's even less proof for the eye than the Depths structures.

[Corsair]

I've always been interestid in the Seers, how long do they live? Why did they lose to the Mursaat? Why did they fight in the first place? It is interesting that you propose that those crystaline structures are of the Seers, it would seem to fit them. I can't seem to remember or find any screens of the faces found in some of the crystal structures, almost holographic in nature. But I seem to remember that they looked more human than seer...

[draxynnic]

I'd been meaning to reopen this discussion since reading the interview myself, but since the issue actually got released I didn't really have time to give it justice around everything else.

One thing I am curious about is the "such information is difficult to come by" part. Is this "difficult" in the "yeah, the epic search for this information will be part of the story at some point, wink wink nudge nudge" sense, or in the "we'll provide clues to these things, but it'll be up to the players to join the dots" sense?

[Lyssa]

draxynnic said:

I'd been meaning to reopen this discussion since reading the interview myself, but since the issue actually got released I didn't really have time to give it justice around everything else.

One thing I am curious about is the "such information is difficult to come by" part. Is this "difficult" in the "yeah, the epic search for this information will be part of the story at some point, wink wink nudge nudge" sense, or in the "we'll provide clues to these things, but it'll be up to the players to join the dots" sense?

I think your second example is more likely. I think they will be like easter eggs.
Remember a while ago when Anet mentioned that some events will be small like easter eggs? Something like that, is my reckoning.

[Mister_Smiley]

Konig Des Todes said:

The crystal/ice is of a different style, which while I once thought that the seers would be the most likeliest race to have built the eye (and it rather still is), I'm less certain and didn't add it in because there's even less proof for the eye than the Depths structures.

yes it is a different style,the Eye is a more detailed one in the crystals, also if you look at the structure of the eye manly the big boulders/square rocks that build it and then look at parts of the Depths they are similar somewhat. But your right there isn't enough proof to suppose that the Seer build it, but i still think that they did.

Also this is just an idea if you look at the top of the eye there is the top missing though it doesn't look like it is finished, but i think it was broke off by Jormag, its most likely that he current place is not where he original was, so when he was flying(if he can) he hit the eye and cause it to break off.

[Ravious]

Very interesting. That answer by Ree says a lot. Mursaat aren't humans. Seers are native to Tyria. Humans are not native to Tyria. Both races saw the gods transform the world for humans, and give magic to the races.

The last part is most interesting to me because it can kind of be inferred that Mursaat/Seers found their own magic before the lesser races. Were they subdued by the gods? Clearly the Mursaat wanted to be god'ish in some ways. Then we have the dwarves and forgotten as well.

I can't help but look to Tolkien's LOTR world, which has an excellent take on an ancient race (elves) viewing the new race (humans). In Tyria, it seemed that the upstart humans were not really respected by the ancient races. Dwarves had their own destiny. Forgotten, IMHO, were already forsaken and just had to finish out their duties. The Mursaat waved a big middle finger at the gods by stealing a whole nation of humans, and the Seers... hid during the time of the humans. No one really wanted to guide them during the campaigns.... anyway I ramble on long enough.

Hopefully, maybe in GWB WIK or somewhere, the Seers might acknowledge Kryta somehow.

[Thalador]

I was thrilled when I read that the humans are not native to Tyria. That part pretty much aligns with a thought in my two-parted hypothesis - which I came up with right after reading Ravious' interview with Jeff Grubb.

Thalador Doomspeaker said:

About the gods:

I think that they were mortal creatures for the first time. And of course, they were not native to Tyria. What's more I find it quite possible that it was them, who opened a portal to this world from theirs, and led a coalition force of the main races of their own homeworld [Humans, Abaddon's race (I know he came later, but it's still possible that his race belonged to the same planet from which the other gods had come), etc.] This portal opened at that southern land from which the human race originated.

http://www.guildwars...74&postcount=41

You were right Konig. That one little paragraph changed our view on the whole Mursaat and Seer topic.

I'm curious if their war can be related to the Elder Dragons. In the meaning that it either started because of them, or because one of the races found something very important that could do something to the True Dragons.

It is also very interesting that they fought their war in the time of the Great Dwarf. It seems that the Dwarven race knew a great deal about them in the form of old stories/tales and they even had an ancient text about them (I guess it's not the Tome itself, but another important Dwarven relic).

Captain Hugo Bronzebeard said:

The Mursaat have taken Thunderhead Keep! Jalis ordered my scouts, Korg and Onar, ahead to learn what they can and to find the one the ancient texts call the Seer. It is said that he can fashion a set of armor capable of protecting one against Mursaat magic. Most like a tale told over a flagon of ale, but in these times who knows. I expected a report by now...something must have held them up. I'd feel better if ye went after them.

Ravious said:

The last part is most interesting to me because it can kind of be inferred that Mursaat/Seers found their own magic before the lesser races.

I agree. There was a very intriguing sentence in one of the new dialogues for the War in Kryta.

Livia said:

The magic they perform is beyond anything humans have even imagined.

I'm quite sure that this is a reference to Spectral Agony. But still, it seems that the magic of the ancient races differ from the magic that the newer races use in several ways... What could be the reason for that? A different source of magic, for example? Or the fact that they are older allowed them to advance in magical theory and acquire/reach unimaginable techniques (for example: Spectral Agony, Infusing armor, Rite of the Great Dwarf). In that case, it's just the "elder" status of those races that make their magic so different and powerful. Very interesting...

[Joiry]

One thing to keep in mind, one civilization will often build on, or modify, structures it finds from a previous civilization (or merely separate religion after conquering an area). Plus the often borrowing of cultural motifs from either a contemporary culture or an older one it discovers.

The Eye of the North, as an example, might have started out as roughly the same shape, but looking quite different in terms of details. The "facade" may just represent the last civilization to occupy it before the Ebon Vanguard.

[Konig Des Todes]

@Corsair: it seems the seers lost due to the Spectral Agony, which has always made me wonder how the mursaat came by that.

@draxynnic: I figured it would be the second - that it wouldn't be in the storyline itself, but can be found elsewhere, perhaps multiple elsewheres. Also, if it is in the storyline, more than likely, it'll be with the Durmand Priory order.

@Ravious and Thalador: I'm questioning the story of the gods giving magic to the races personally. What if they never "gave it" but just "taught" races (particularly humans) how to use it. We also know now why the gods favor humans - they are literally their "children" (they brought the humans, specifically, to the world).

This would also explain why the charr claim to have not gained magic until the titans - they just didn't know how to use it (though it could still be the use of the word "new" before magic that it in fact means that the charr had magic, but then gained new magic (i.e., the Cauldron of Cataclysm)).

@Thalador: I think Livia was indeed referring to the Spectral Agony. And the age of the race may in fact have to deal with the magic they use. More time to research and record, if nothing else. I personally hold firm to my theory that magic has no "source," so I would disagree on it being a different source than the newer races.

@Joiry: The whole "one civilization will often build on, or modfigy, structures it finds from a previous civilization" is in fact why I believe that Ascalonians, the asura, and the Kurzicks all base their structures off of those found in the Depths+Altrumm, and not it just being a case of re-using textures.

[Andlát]

Is it just me, or there is something like a vortex, or a black mist right above the Eye of the North ? Can it be somehow related to its creators?

[Gmr Leon]

Thalador Doomspeaker said:

That one little paragraph changed our view on the whole Mursaat and Seer topic.

Perhaps I'm showing my prolonged experience in this community, but is it just me, or has it not really changed much at all? All it really seems to have done was narrow the timeline down a bit, without giving too accurate a view of matters, and confirm or reinforce something that was already generally assumed, that of the Gods bringing humanity to Tyria. Outside of the lore community, it's basically a given that the Gods either created humanity or brought it to Tyria, if I'm not mistaken, with it mainly being the former. Even within the lore community, we knew Tyria wasn't humanity's native land, with thanks to Bahltek. We've also plenty of hints from the hunter in the Fissure of Woe to the more prominent Lord Odran that traversal of the Mists isn't an extremely difficult task. So now we know the Gods brought humanity to Tyria, but they also brought the Forgotten so that's nothing too incredible, what we need to be concerned with now is why they did it. What their intent was, etc.

When it comes to the Mursaat and Seers, as I said, this doesn't reveal too much to us, and it's not meant to. This is little more than an old bread crumb trail which has had the spotlight directed to it once more, despite the bread crumbs having been trampled into the dust over the years the game has been out. What should be remembered is the age of this trail is not two years, but five, and it is entirely possible and even likely we have overlooked much of the Seers throughout the games. Konig points to the Depths, which may be a good place to end, but the best place to start, I suspect, will be the surface, of the Shiverpeaks and the rest of Tyria.

Ree chose her words perfectly to incite this research:

Ree Soesbee said:

Some remnants of that civilization, and that ancient time, still remain in modern-day Tyria (both in GW and GW2), but often, those who discover such things do not realize what they have found.

What we must be careful not to do now, though, is to connect everything unexplained to the Seers, such as every facet of the Depths or the origin of the Eye of the North.

[Corsair]

The Seers obviously had some protection against Spectral Agony, since we were able to come by it from a seer. If the war was decided by Spectral Agony, at least one of few things must have occurred:

1. The innovation came too late in the war to be properly implemented.

2. Scarcity of resources, e.g the Eidolons were rare.

3. They over harvested Eidolons to the point where their population could no longer support the Seer war effort.

4. The process of infusion wears off over time.

I personally doubt the war was decided by Spectral Agony, we don't know what kind of special magics the Seers have, the status of their forces, or any number of other things. One possible tipping point in the war could have occurred when the Mursaat discovered how to make Jade Armor, as a frontline melee force would be devastating to such a frail looking race.

Edited by Corsair, 10 May 2010 - 10:43 PM.

[Gmr Leon]

I suspect it may have come too late in the war, but, there is the chance that the creation of Jade Armors also influenced their downfall. However, if this is the case, then maybe the Enchanted are related to the Seers? It's been outright denied that they're connected to the Mursaat by Linsey, but not so much the Seers. It's unlikely, but if the Mursaat developed melee constructs, then it seems likely the Seers would have tried to develop them as well, in a blow for blow sort of way. (We create Jade Armors, retaliate, we have Enchanted, we have Spectral Agony, we have Infusion, etc.) Basically, an arms race.

[Corsair]

I've always assumed that Enchanted were creations of the Forgotten. Since we first met the two of them, they have been allied. Perhaps the Forgotten tokens they drop bind the enchanted to the Forgotten.

Or do you mean the Enchanted Weapons, found in dungeons? I am unsure if there is a connection here, less so than the regular Enchanted. They float, and some have been seemingly bound to some bloodstones, but who knows. If they were creations of the Seers, then perhaps the 6 health regeneration they have was an attempt to battle Spectral Agony that never fully worked.

[Joiry]

Konig Des Todes said:

@Joiry: The whole "one civilization will often build on, or modfigy, structures it finds from a previous civilization" is in fact why I believe that Ascalonians, the asura, and the Kurzicks all base their structures off of those found in the Depths+Altrumm, and not it just being a case of re-using textures.

Well, that's not entirely what I meant. I do think the reuse of textures is more of a budget issue than trying to connect certain things. That Anet reuses a stone/mortar texture in several places says nothing to me. That they put gargoyle statues in certain places may say something, but that they are the exact same statues says less to me (cause the designers probably just wanted a particular look).

I also wonder how much Anet really planned much of it in advance. Didn't they say somewhere, when making Prophecies, they didn't really have a concept of Palawa Joko other than basically a name. A lot of what ends up being Seer related stuff might be the lore team looking through a lot of the locations and deciding what fits with their ideas of how to develope their background, and it may not all fit neatly.

Whether its their actual name, the "Seers" are named as such likely for some sort of actual or perceived ability to be seers. This, to me, allows for a possible connection to the Eye of the North's scrying pool. But it might well be argued there's nothing of the look of the building that connects it to the Seers. But the pool may be the main remnant of the Seers, and maybe the main (underlying) structure of the whole structure. Much of the motifs and current facade may have been added by another group that moved after the Seers were defeated. For example, the aztec-ish eagle motifs.

Think of the great pyramids in Egypt. They used to be smooth, covered in limestone. But over the years, weather, thieves and other wear have laid bare the underlying stones. You could imagine another civilization coming along and repurposing the structures, and adding new external structures.

[jazilla]

I still think the HoM is a perfect example of a Seer structure. No one knows who built it etc.

[Konig Des Todes]

Gmr Leon said:

Perhaps I'm showing my prolonged experience in this community, but is it just me, or has it not really changed much at all?

It's confirmed a few things: We see the seer's civilization in GW1 (and 2), we now know an approximate time when the seers warred with the mursaat (before we hadn't a clue when it was, we assumed it was long ago), we now know that the seers are indeed an ancient race (we assumed they were before), we know the mursaat are also an ancient race (this wasn't even hinted at before). Basically, it confirmed assumptions, but the assumptions were so widely accepted that to some it may not see like much.

It seems like you just overlooked what the paragraph had stated for us, and jumped right to the comment on the gods.

Gmr Leon said:

So now we know the Gods brought humanity to Tyria, but they also brought the Forgotten so that's nothing too incredible, what we need to be concerned with now is why they did it. What their intent was, etc.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that the gods didn't bring the forgotten to Tyria.

Gmr Leon said:

Konig points to the Depths, which may be a good place to end, but the best place to start, I suspect, will be the surface, of the Shiverpeaks and the rest of Tyria.

The thing is that I thought about every unexplained area in Prophecies, and nothing screems both ancient and mysterious. We have Wizard's Tower, Wizard's Folly Tower, the Talmark Runes, the mysterious stones in the Maguuma, etc. etc. But does any of that really seem like they are ancient? They don't to me, to be honest. So then I looked to the other place in Tyria: Eye of the North. And the main focus of that was the Depths and the elder dragons.

Gmr Leon said:

What we must be careful not to do now, though, is to connect everything unexplained to the Seers, such as every facet of the Depths or the origin of the Eye of the North.

Yes, let's not pull a GWO (mainly Quintus) with connecting everything to the mursaat. But I only connected one facet of the Depths to the seers, and that is, in fact, the only thing I proposed we have seen connected to the seers (we in fact never see Moladune, just heard of it). People tend to connect the Eye with the seers because of the scrying pool, I would assume. And other aspects of the depths I connect, in fact, to the forgotten and maybe the mursaat - perhaps, as well, two or three other races we don't know about, one of which being humanoid (and the origin of the statues with the sword).

@Corsair: Was it not stated in the cinematic that they developed infusion near the end of the war (thus they were too weak to put up a fight after infusion was discovered)?

As to what Leon meant by Enchanted, he meant the armors, as their armor is a lot like the Mursaat's armor (down to the three large toes) but was point blank stated by Linsey they are not connected.

[Corsair]

Konig Des Todes said:

@Corsair: Was it not stated in the cinematic that they developed infusion near the end of the war (thus they were too weak to put up a fight after infusion was discovered)?

I just checked here, no mention of when they developed infusion, only that it will give us some protection from the Mursaat. Nothing, in my memory, has ever stated that they developed infusion near the end of their war, nor implied such.

[Gmr Leon]

Konig Des Todes said:

Basically, it confirmed assumptions, but the assumptions were so widely accepted that to some it may not see like much.

Exactly why it doesn't seem like much to me. I reread that section five or six times perhaps, and each time, it just seemed like confirmation, and what I mentioned in my last post about narrowing the timeline down.

Konig Des Todes said:

But does any of that really seem like they are ancient? They don't to me, to be honest. So then I looked to the other place in Tyria: Eye of the North. And the main focus of that was the Depths and the elder dragons.

I know. I thought of the same places. But those are obvious. What we're looking for is something that we won't immediately recognize or connect. The Depths are a start, but we must be overlooking something. Ree's response more or less stresses the point that we won't recognize it. This may be entirely suggestive of those places being Seer in nature. It's an ambiguous enough response to lead us on a wild goose chase.

Konig Des Todes said:

But I only connected one facet of the Depths to the seers, and that is, in fact, the only thing I proposed we have seen connected to the seers (we in fact never see Moladune, just heard of it).

I know. I also knew you would respond in this manner. Don't worry about it, I said every for a reason. There's the potential that one could run with your research and try to stretch it across the entire Depths.

[Konig Des Todes]

@Corsair: Hmmm, could of sworn it was mentioned somewhere.

Gmr Leon said:

Exactly why it doesn't seem like much to me. I reread that section five or six times perhaps, and each time, it just seemed like confirmation, and what I mentioned in my last post about narrowing the timeline down.

If we take out the confirmation, we had next to nothing on the seers. Just assumptions. Assumptions leading to more assumptions leading to more assumptions. It's a poor path to go down, and this confirmation has helped reaffirm old hypotheses into theories, diminished other assumptions, and possibly, looking into things, create new theories and hypotheses. It's more than what you give credit for. Though probably still less than what I give credit for.

Gmr Leon said:

Ree's response more or less stresses the point that we won't recognize it. This may be entirely suggestive of those places being Seer in nature. It's an ambiguous enough response to lead us on a wild goose chase.

I took it as "it exists, but people can't connect it to the seers, and NPCs haven't the slightest clue (if there are any NPCs near them).

Gmr Leon said:

I know. I also knew you would respond in this manner. Don't worry about it, I said every for a reason. There's the potential that one could run with your research and try to stretch it across the entire Depths.

Well aren't you the psyche analyzer (or whatever it's called).

[draxynnic]

Ravious said:

The last part is most interesting to me because it can kind of be inferred that Mursaat/Seers found their own magic before the lesser races. Were they subdued by the gods? Clearly the Mursaat wanted to be god'ish in some ways. Then we have the dwarves and forgotten as well.

It would explain why the Mursaat have a grudge against the gods, but my gut feeling is that the Seers and Dwarves allied with the gods (the latter possibly through the Great Dwarf in some manner). In the case of the Seers, though, this may simply be an after the fact thing that didn't happen until they started colluding with Glint against the Mursaat, if the war was concluded before the current generation of gods appeared. (The Seer's knowledge of the Titans, however, implied that they must have existed in some form during their time. Since this was before Abaddon went bad and the Titans appear to be artificial constructs, this implies that the Titans once served one of the previous generation such as Dhuum or Abaddon's predecessor.)

Regarding the Dwarves, the Stone Summit are a relatively recent phenomenon, while the Deldrimnor dwarves have "old alliances" with humanity (and they also show some respect to the human deities despite seeing the Great Dwarf as the prime deity) which may translate into old alliances with the gods. (The Stone Summit, I suspect, might have been a response to the Guild Wars being carried out across the Shiverpeaks)

The Forgotten, I suspect, either had an earlier grant of magic to perform their duties or they had their own knowledge - becoming as dependant on magic as the Mursaat are (both races have only spellcasters) doesn't seem to me to be something that would have happened overnight. Unless that's another area where the histories are out-and-out wrong, though, the Forgotten were brought in by the gods just like humanity - although instead of being intended as caretakers, they may have been brought in to push back the Mursaat.

On these thoughts, my likely (rough) timeline of events goes something like this:

1) The Primordial Dragons go (or are forced) into hibernation. The Dwarves, Mursaat, Seers and Charr breathe a collective sigh of relief, with the first being transformed from stone to flesh in order to "go forth and prosper".

2) Something sparks a war between the Mursaat and the Seers - possibly a war over influence over the "lesser races" (read: those relatively lacking in magic such as the Dwarves and Charr. My gut feeling is that the Dwarves didn't have magic before the gift, and at this point their numbers may have been few anyway). The Seers discover infusion too late to prevent being defeated and scattered.

3) The current generation of gods arrives to find the Mursaat on the ascendant and threatening the Dwarves. They bring the Forgotten into the world, which push the Mursaat back. (Maybe the Forgotten are also naturally infused, are protected by the gods, or simply have the advantage of numbers over the Mursaat.) In exchange, the Dwarves forge alliances with the followers of the gods. The Charr, on the other hand, have had their fill of "superior beings" such as the Seers and Mursaat claiming to be gods, and lump the Six in the same basket.

This doesn't explain exactly where the Titans come into it, however. Evidently they popped out somewhere, but how is not something I'm sure about.

Another thing that isn't mentioned here is the Asura - since one of the Dragons claims the underground, my gut feeling is that the Asura may have gone underground to escape the Seer-Mursaat war or the Mursaat ascendency.

Konig Des Todes said:

@Corsair: Hmmm, could of sworn it was mentioned somewhere.

I went looking for it myself, and couldn't find it. Could be a conclusion-jump, or could be something that was directly said by ANet that we've forgotten.

[Corsair]

Konig Des Todes said:

@Corsair: Hmmm, could of sworn it was mentioned somewhere.

It is mentioned on the GWW, and on the GW2W in the Seer articles. You wrote the Seer article on GW2W though, and the current iteration of the Seer article on GWW. It is reasonable speculation, but I don't think there is any specific evidence for it.

p.s I'm so happy they keep the edit history, its sometimes fun to see all the changes an article goes through. ^.^

As for the magic, I believe the Mursaat and Seers discovered it themselves, while the gods introduced it to most of the other races with their style of magic. Each god practices their magic differently, so different schools of magic. I'll have to figure out how the bloodstones would factor into that... perhaps they force their brand of magic through specific channels...

[draxynnic]

I think that's pretty much it - instead of wielding magic as a unified whole, the bloodstones divide it into the various schools we know in GW1. In GW2, evidently, either the system has been disrupted somehow or at least one is no longer controlled by a "scholar" profession.

[Muan]

I don't know if anyone's noted this yet, But is it possible that the stone heads we see on the Ring of Fire Island Chain and in the catacombs of Presearing Ascalon might be artificial structures perhaps created by the Seers. The mouth look uncharacteristic, but then we've never seen a Seer open its mouth. Anyway, the general style of the heard much resembles a Seer, at least, more than it does anything besides a human skull, but then why would anyone sculpt human skulls into the rock of a place where humans have no settlements?

So, assuming these are not natural structures (which seems unlikely) I think it is fairly likely they were made by the Seers and might have once been part of a large settlement on the islands. Most of the Seers we meet are on those islands. Of course, the reigning power on the RoF Island Chain is the Mursaat, but I suppose its possible they took this island chain from the Seers during the war. Their assault against the Seers might partially be to blame for the current state of the islands and might have ripped open the Door of Komalie to begin with. Of course, I'm just extrapolating from the possibility that these stone heads might be evidence of an ancient Seer city on the RoF island chain.

[Corsair]

All those Seers we meet, are in fact, one Seer.