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The Elder Scrolls: Online


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#361 Milennin

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:59 AM

I'm not interested in playing this, but since it's gonna be a big thing, I feel like somewhat following it, similar to what I did with SWTOR. After watching some of the more recent videos I still think this is going to be bad. They miss a major selling point, besides it being The Elder Scrolls and that it's going to be online.
I'm not a TES fan. I only played Skyrim, and liked it. But what in this game should interest me to make me want to play it? I can't see any. The problem with MMO's is that you gotta come with something new, or else people will just stick to what they're currently playing. TESO seems to take things we have in Guild Wars 2. But if I already enjoy playing GW2, I don't have a reason to start in another MMO.

In my opinion it would have been a much better choice to make a TES game with a co-op mode. Or maybe something similar to what Guild Wars 1 did, where you can play it solo, but with other people as well. Because the TES series are built on a strong single-player experience, it seems strange to get away from that.

#362 FoxBat

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:37 AM

View PostMilennin, on 09 November 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

But what in this game should interest me to make me want to play it? I can't see any. The problem with MMO's is that you gotta come with something new, or else people will just stick to what they're currently playing. TESO seems to take things we have in Guild Wars 2. But if I already enjoy playing GW2, I don't have a reason to start in another MMO.

Because GW2 only has so much content... particularly considering this game has years to go still. If this by some miracle ends up not being sub based, I can easily see myself spending some time in both.

Very few games these days can afford to capture people's attention exclusively like WoW more or less did. This is why F2P is becoming the norm and sub is on the way out. The big name WoW clones you always hear failing are the ones that tried to copy its business model and can't get people to pay for more than a few months. If you can build your game to profit off of many only playing a little bit (often from a small subset of people paying *a ton*) then you're good to go.

Edited by FoxBat, 09 November 2012 - 10:41 AM.


#363 MaZt

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:40 PM

So let me get this straight there will be only one server for the whole game where all people will play in? And the PvP will be 3 factions fighting each other like WvW right? So how is this supposed to be balanced if people dont want to roll with a certain faction cause it doesnt look cool like the others, wouldnt that be a problem for PvP and isnt that the same problem that destroyed SWTOR PvP? Even if this is 3 faction based PvP people want still to roll out with the coolest faction and you cant force players to choose a certain faction just for balance issues. And because all will be in one server the problem will never be solved unless you force people to choose a certain faction.

Just my opinion.

#364 Gilles VI

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

View PostXgreatArtist, on 09 November 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

TBH i want Elder scrolls MMO's graphics to be like skyrim. i dont like those bright cartoony graphics. Skyrim has all the right graphics for TES in the 2012 era. Same as Oblivion having the right graphics for 2006.
And morrowind. Oh morrowind <3

Because single player graphics simply are not doable in MMO's, it's not like they had a choice and choose specifically for going cartoony, it's more because they simply didn't have a choice.

#365 Quietus

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:19 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 09 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:


Because single player graphics simply are not doable in MMO's, it's not like they had a choice and choose specifically for going cartoony, it's more because they simply didn't have a choice.

Yeah, it's simply a case of PCs not yet being powerful enough to handle that kind of polycount etc.

#366 jirayasan

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:01 PM

I'd like a multiplayer mode for Skyrim where i could play with up to 10 friends.

#367 FoxBat

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

View PostMaZt, on 09 November 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

So let me get this straight there will be only one server for the whole game where all people will play in? And the PvP will be 3 factions fighting each other like WvW right? So how is this supposed to be balanced if people dont want to roll with a certain faction cause it doesnt look cool like the others, wouldnt that be a problem for PvP and isnt that the same problem that destroyed SWTOR PvP? Even if this is 3 faction based PvP people want still to roll out with the coolest faction and you cant force players to choose a certain faction just for balance issues. And because all will be in one server the problem will never be solved unless you force people to choose a certain faction.

Just my opinion.

While there may still be faction "coolness" issues, it's not going to be nearly as pronounced as ToR or even WoW. Every faction should have roughly the same classes, most of the same armor choices, and two out of the three in each faction are basically humans or elves, while the other one gets to be a more "exotic" race. We also don't know that the zone content will be strictly divided among races, e.g. maybe an Altmer can run around Skyrim, and it's just in Cyrodil that you have to PvP against the other factions.

#368 Rhododendron

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

Take away the Elder Scrolls name from that gameplay trailer and what else of interest remains?
The technology that allows all players in a single world - no server separation >> certainly monthly fees, so that's bad too :D

#369 Gilles VI

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:10 PM

View PostQuietus, on 09 November 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Yeah, it's simply a case of PCs not yet being powerful enough to handle that kind of polycount etc.

Yup! It's weird people don't understand that.

#370 Own Age Myname

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostRhododendron, on 09 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Take away the Elder Scrolls name from that gameplay trailer and what else of interest remains?
The technology that allows all players in a single world - no server separation >> certainly monthly fees, so that's bad too :D

Public dungeons and heavily focused endgame. Thats a huge turn on for me.

#371 Specialz

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:51 PM

View PostMaZt, on 09 November 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

So let me get this straight there will be only one server for the whole game where all people will play in? And the PvP will be 3 factions fighting each other like WvW right? So how is this supposed to be balanced if people dont want to roll with a certain faction cause it doesnt look cool like the others, wouldnt that be a problem for PvP and isnt that the same problem that destroyed SWTOR PvP? Even if this is 3 faction based PvP people want still to roll out with the coolest faction and you cant force players to choose a certain faction just for balance issues. And because all will be in one server the problem will never be solved unless you force people to choose a certain faction.

Just my opinion.

I think faction based game will never ever ever work in a video game setting, because people will always want to play on the winning side. also like you said, appearance does matter, which will also skew people towards another faction usually. Every faction game are usually sound on paper but in implementation they are bad.

#372 Arkantos

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostRhododendron, on 09 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Take away the Elder Scrolls name from that gameplay trailer and what else of interest remains?
The technology that allows all players in a single world - no server separation >> certainly monthly fees, so that's bad too :D

Decent looking combat, great class customization (thief who can heal, mage in heavy armor, etc) if implemented correctly, huge 3 way PvP, megaserver, dynamic events (where villagers and such actually remember what you did), encouraging social interaction, and as Own Age said, public dungeons and emphasis on end game, just to name what I can recall off the top of my head. That's only from that one video. The game is definitely looking like a mix between EQ and GW2, which on paper sounds amazing.

It has a lot of potential, but Bethesda is known for their bug plagued games, and of course it's going to get insanely overhyped. Time will tell.

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#373 Balpreet

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:44 PM

Perhaps it's because I had low expectations for this game, but every time I get an update I am impressed.

#374 Shamadamun

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

View PostSymbiont, on 08 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Spoiler

Combat looks a little choppy, and I am a little skeptical of how fun that combat system will be over a long period of time - but this is definitely something worth checking out.

EDIT: This time, though, I hope I can exercise some self-restraint and avoid information on the game so I don't spoil everything :P

View PostArkantos, on 09 November 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

It has a lot of potential, but Bethesda is known for their bug plagued games, and of course it's going to get insanely overhyped. Time will tell.

Its not Bethesda, its Zenimax. Or did Zenimax have a part to play in making the other games?

Edited by Shamadamun, 09 November 2012 - 11:22 PM.


#375 HawkofStorms

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:15 AM

How the heck will that combat system make much sense in massive scale PvP.  Sure, you can "use any weapon and wear any armor" but there is no way melee builds will be very viable in that.

#376 blindude

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:43 PM

View Postel hefe, on 09 November 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

players are assigned to  a specific instance of cyrodiiil.  they will always fight with and against the same players.  cyrodiil is also persistent.  it never resets.  if your faction takes a keep it will yours forever.  until someone takes it back.
I thought so :)
Dont get me wrong i love the series and as a gw2 fan its like im seeing the tes lore on a game that has the many right things gw2 did.
But their whole hype about the megaserver thing seems like what essentially gw2 with the guesting system will be.
Many "servers" that you are free to hop in and out for pve and instances that you cant change and where you will get world pvp.
I just wish there is no sub :P

View PostHawkofStorms, on 10 November 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

How the heck will that combat system make much sense in massive scale PvP.  Sure, you can "use any weapon and wear any armor" but there is no way melee builds will be very viable in that.
Cant you have the same argument about gw2 wvw?Im guessing that people will favor the range builds in that pvp  format

I also HATE how mmos keep coming out like 1 each year..You just invest time in one and then a potentially better comes and screwes you over :)
I just hope that Anet pulls some crazy stuff in gw2 so that i cant see an objective reason for me to switch games..

Edited by blindude, 10 November 2012 - 12:47 PM.


#377 HawkofStorms

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:21 PM

View Postblindude, on 10 November 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:



Cant you have the same argument about gw2 wvw?Im guessing that people will favor the range builds in that pvp  format

I also HATE how mmos keep coming out like 1 each year..You just invest time in one and then a potentially better comes and screwes you over :)
I just hope that Anet pulls some crazy stuff in gw2 so that i cant see an objective reason for me to switch games..

I do.  The problem is, there has been nothing showing that it is easy to reset your points/skill tree in this game.

#378 el hefe

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

View PostHawkofStorms, on 10 November 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I do.  The problem is, there has been nothing showing that it is easy to reset your points/skill tree in this game.

you'll get to pick 2 skills based on the weapon you choose.  3 based on the class,  and have an 'ultimate' ability.  all the skiils in the game level up the more you use them.  and can be freely swapped while out of combat.

every archtype can use any weapon.  so if you want to heal on your warrior.  get a healing staff and use it a bunch.  sick of healing?  re-equip you sword.

it's too early to talk about re-spec's.  but that is a pretty common feature in games nowadays.  the only thing i can see needing to be re-spec'd would be your health stamina and magika allocation.

View PostHawkofStorms, on 10 November 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

How the heck will that combat system make much sense in massive scale PvP.  Sure, you can "use any weapon and wear any armor" but there is no way melee builds will be very viable in that.

in large fights it might be a better idea for melee to equip a bow/ranged weapon.  not unlike gw2.

Edited by el hefe, 10 November 2012 - 05:57 PM.


#379 Var

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:19 PM

View Postblindude, on 10 November 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Cant you have the same argument about gw2 wvw?Im guessing that people will favor the range builds in that pvp  format

That will depend on how they handle it, people will always prefer the safer alternative but the melee in GW2 is high-risk/high-reward driven especially for certain (read: Guardian) classes that accomplish bugger all offensively at range unless rolled for support (at which point they wouldn't be in melee irregardless of the game or scenario). If they follow that idea, that melee provides a factor greater damage potential over the ranged alternative, then they might be able to work it in as usable.

I'm following this game with some interest, mostly just my standing like of TES, but some of the decisions are a bit brow-raising to me. I like the return of public dungeons (but I already considered group events in weird corners of the world in GW2 as pseudo-public dungeons), I like the supposed "memory" of the AI though I'm a bit skeptical as to what that entails in reality vs the pampered up commercial. I'm not too keen on this "everyone can wear everything" idea. I liked GW1s option of being able to wield every weapon at a cost of usefulness when it was outside your character's forte, but to start breaking down armor barriers just begs for a balancing nightmare.

We'll see what the future holds... though I won't be holding my breath.

#380 FoxBat

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:25 PM

View PostVar, on 10 November 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

I'm not too keen on this "everyone can wear everything" idea. I liked GW1s option of being able to wield every weapon at a cost of usefulness when it was outside your character's forte, but to start breaking down armor barriers just begs for a balancing nightmare.

At least half of GW's imbalances centered around the dual class system. Meanwhile just about every TES game has been a balance nightmare too, which is especially interesting when you think about what that means for an MMO.

#381 blindude

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:36 PM

Well i dont believe they are going for a balanced pvp game anyway..What will mostly happen is only a few builds (very small number) will be used at world pvp while at pve everyone mostly goes for what he likes.I havent read anywhere that they have esport ambitions.
Basically every class free mmo i have played ended up with 3-4 overused builds that everyone run.But that could be due to bad design or player lack of imagination.

#382 Featherman

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostFoxBat, on 10 November 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

At least half of GW's imbalances centered around the dual class system. Meanwhile just about every TES game has been a balance nightmare too, which is especially interesting when you think about what that means for an MMO.

The devs of those games intended for the player character to become a demigod in those games to keep it in line with the fact that the player can technically cheat death (save states) and experience many diverging fates (Morrowind touches upon this kind of metaphysics you play close enough attention). It'll be interesting to see what direction they'll take with the player character in their MMO. If everyone's a demigod, then at least PvP would be balanced lol.

#383 Krazzar

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

View PostMaZt, on 09 November 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

So let me get this straight there will be only one server for the whole game where all people will play in? And the PvP will be 3 factions fighting each other like WvW right? So how is this supposed to be balanced if people dont want to roll with a certain faction cause it doesnt look cool like the others, wouldnt that be a problem for PvP and isnt that the same problem that destroyed SWTOR PvP? Even if this is 3 faction based PvP people want still to roll out with the coolest faction and you cant force players to choose a certain faction just for balance issues. And because all will be in one server the problem will never be solved unless you force people to choose a certain faction.

Just my opinion.

No, I don't think there will be one server everyone plays on, I think there will be no server choice and you will automatically be shifted to a server with your friends or guild, much like GW2's overflow system. That will also allow them to keep their server numbers hush-hush so they can open, close, or merge "servers" without anyone noticing.

At 3:15: "We have a tech called mega-server where all players are in one server...the game is smart about where to put you, it puts you in game spaces with your friends, with your guildmates. It's a way to be connected with everyone and the game figures out where to put you."

Sounds like every faction will be made up of multiple races and the faction may not actually have any bearing on how you look or what you can do. I haven't seen enough information to know how it works.

#384 Shadok

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:49 PM

My main concern lies with the whole 'mega-server' idea. Rather than devote an enormous amount of effort and money into actually creating 1 massive server, they're taking a more complex (albeit cheaper) approach. The way they're doing this leaves me with many questions.

1) What if I have no friends or guild? Am I virtually alone in the world?

2) How will this handle exponential growth? If I'm in a server with 10 friends and 100 guildies, then these guildies each have 10 friends, and those friends are each in a guild of 100 people... As you can see, there's potential for servers to get larger than they can handle without cutting people off from either friends or guildies (which would then leave the question "How do we choose which players to separate?"). I know zones are split up to help prevent this, but there will inevitable be more popular zones where this COULD be a problem after enough time has passed.

3) What sort of bugs can we expect? Just look at the overflow system in GW2. There were major issues with grouping at launch because players were not placed in overflows with friends. At least in GW2, you could wait in queue to get out of overflow. What happens when this option is eliminated? Can we expect to spend the first month of launch playing alone because we're not being placed in the right servers?

I also have worries about the controls- right click to block, meaning I can no longer use my right mouse button to adjust camera view;  this is fine in an RPG, not so much in an MMO. I'm really just getting the feeling that this game will be an RPG that manages to hold interest just slightly longer than the majority of the genre due to the online interaction, rather than an MMO in which players can easily waste thousands of hours. However, I do hope that this game pulls everything together and gives players a shot at exploring TES universe together with limited issues.

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#385 FoxBat

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

View PostShadok, on 11 November 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

1) What if I have no friends or guild? Am I virtually alone in the world?

Whatever else they manage to screw up in this game, I think you are being rather alarmist here.

Quote

I also have worries about the controls- right click to block, meaning I can no longer use my right mouse button to adjust camera view;  this is fine in an RPG, not so much in an MMO.

Very likely the game is throwing you into mouselook by default, just like all the other elder scroll titles. DDO also lets you toggle mouselook. I wish GW2 had that kind of option, holding down that right mouse button constantly does drag.

Edited by FoxBat, 11 November 2012 - 09:15 PM.


#386 Omega X

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostKalx, on 03 May 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Hero Engine, that's all I have to say

I just noticed this.

Oh gawd... Why?!

Edited by Omega X, 11 November 2012 - 09:29 PM.


#387 Quietus

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:47 PM

View PostOmega X, on 11 November 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

I just noticed this.

Oh gawd... Why?!

Yeah... Some of the things people disliked about TOR were because of the Hero Engine. The way it influenced world design for example.

#388 el hefe

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:11 PM

View PostOmega X, on 11 November 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

I just noticed this.

Oh gawd... Why?!

View PostQuietus, on 11 November 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

Yeah... Some of the things people disliked about TOR were because of the Hero Engine. The way it influenced world design for example.

they aren't using the hero engine.    http://www.gameinfor...heroengine.aspx

#389 Omega X

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:46 AM

Ahh, good. Hopefully its a new team that coded it and not Bethesda.

#390 Krazzar

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:20 AM

View PostOmega X, on 12 November 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Ahh, good. Hopefully its a new team that coded it and not Bethesda.

Perhaps.....Zenimax, the devs.




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