613 replies to this topic

[Illein]

Dervo, on 02 February 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Honestly, that video reminds me of warhammer online, which was a horrible game.  Actually, it was worse cause the "players" only fought against general mob enemies before circling around each other, at least warhammer's showed how the different professions interacted with each other.

Hype is hype. You may argue about the effect a cinematic vid has on it, but there's little arguement that it DOES influence sales positively, so I can see why it's important for companies. Of course, it's a double-edged blade if it doesn't deliver afterwards, especially with a sub-based game.

But a cool vid, never hurts - imho. And it's without a doubt, eye-candy.

Edited by Kamatsu, 02 February 2013 - 11:54 PM.
editing

[Specialz]

Dervo, on 02 February 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Hype... you realize that gw2 was one of the most hyped mmos before it came out right?  They just did it with in game videos instead of a silly cinematic that would leave everyone feeling disappointed when they compared the game to it.  Honestly, that video reminds me of warhammer online, which was a horrible game.  Actually, it was worse cause the "players" only fought against general mob enemies before circling around each other, at least warhammer's showed how the different professions interacted with each other.

The thing you forget is PEOPLE will almost be disappointed with any product that is marketed. The point of marketing is the highlight the good and ignore the bad. The only way to not be disappointed is not bother dealing with products UNTIL they are release long enough to gauge the reaction and at best it still doesn't prevent disappointment only minimize.

Hype comes from people trying to imagine the way things will play out NOT from actual knowledge, marketing tries to appeal to your emotions.

[Red J]

BuddhaKeks, on 02 February 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Okay I don't quite get it. We have 3 factions: The Ebonheart Pact, which is represented by that Nord and his Dunmer friend, who crawl through the dungeon, the Aldmeri Dominion, which is the one attacking with those "brigde ballistas" I presume, since their leader wears black-yellow, which were the colors of them in Skyrim. But who is the last group? I would say Daggerfall Convenant, but this factions has no elves in it (except if you count the orcs, which were once elves), but the group is clearly led by somehting which looks like an Bosmer to me. The Bosmer however belong to the Aldmeri Dominion.
The only thing I could come up with as an explanation is that this "elf girl" is actually a Breton, which are known to have elfish blood in them. But she looks a little to heavy on the elf side for a Breton. So I ahve to ask, who screwed this up?

Those with "bridge ballistas" were of Daggerfall Covenant. The elves climbing the wall were from Aldmeri Dominion, with leader being Altmer and the others in tribal looking armour Bosmer.

Seemed kinda obvious to me.

Edited by Red J, 02 February 2013 - 09:10 PM.

[Dervo]

Illein, on 02 February 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Hype is hype. You may argue about the effect a cinematic vid has on it, but there's little arguement that it DOES influence sales positively, so I can see why it's important for companies. Of course, it's a double-edged blade if it doesn't deliver afterwards, especially with a sub-based game.

But a cool vid, never hurts - imho. And it's without a doubt, eye-candy.

Actually, it does hurt.  Either it takes up a lot of a companies money, or a lot of their man-hours.

Specialz, on 02 February 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

The thing you forget is PEOPLE will almost be disappointed with any product that is marketed. The point of marketing is the highlight the good and ignore the bad. The only way to not be disappointed is not bother dealing with products UNTIL they are release long enough to gauge the reaction and at best it still doesn't prevent disappointment only minimize.

Hype comes from people trying to imagine the way things will play out NOT from actual knowledge, marketing tries to appeal to your emotions.

Of course there's always going to be someone that's disappointed, but the more accurate you make the marketing the less likely people will be demanding refunds and telling everyone they know that the game is horrible.  A cgi trailer is not a way to highlight the good and ignore the bad, except in games where the graphics are bad.  Of course, I'm not saying that ESO shouldn't have had a trailer, I've watched their combat and it's very ragged right now, someone mentioned that the animations are still being worked on.  Makes sense why they'd spend the money.

TLDR:  CGI trailers aren't good marketing unless your alternatives are to show bad graphics/animations while doing nothing but farming mobs.

Edited by Kamatsu, 02 February 2013 - 11:55 PM.
editing

[BuddhaKeks]

Red J, on 02 February 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Those with "bridge ballistas" were of Daggerfall Covenant. The elves climbing the wall were from Aldmeri Dominion, with leader being Altmer and the others in tribal looking armour Bosmer.

Seemed kinda obvious to me.

How is that obvious? First of those supposed Bosmer in tribal armor are taller than the "Altmer", atleast the male one on the left. However Bosmer males are smaller than females (on average) and certainly smaller than Altmer. They look more like tribal Bretons to me, similar to the Reachmen from Skyrim.
Also the guy leading the attack with those ballistas again wears black-yellow, those are the colors of the Thalmor. If he is supposed to from the Daggerfall Convenant, than they failed to make him look like that. Espeacially since he seems to have a yellow-ish skin color, which would again hint at him being an Altmer. So please tell me what's so obvious about this.

[Arquenya]

Dervo, on 02 February 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Actually, it does hurt.  Either it takes up a lot of a companies money, or a lot of their man-hours.

Of course there's always going to be someone that's disappointed, but the more accurate you make the marketing the less likely people will be demanding refunds and telling everyone they know that the game is horrible.  A cgi trailer is not a way to highlight the good and ignore the bad, except in games where the graphics are bad.

TLDR:  CGI trailers aren't good marketing unless your alternatives are to show bad graphics/animations while doing nothing but farming mobs.

A lot of games have cinematic trailers. I like them. Every game company has its marketing stuff. And budget.

Misleading manifesto's aren't everything either to make it "less likely people will be demanding refunds and telling everyone they know that the game is horrible". They're far cheaper though, admitted!

And I think there's no relation between game quality and trailers. If a game's good, it's good.
As long as the game's good - and I hope they have a P2P business model because I greatly dislike cash shops.

Edited by Arquenya, 03 February 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[Specialz]

Dervo, on 02 February 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Of course there's always going to be someone that's disappointed, but the more accurate you make the marketing the less likely people will be demanding refunds and telling everyone they know that the game is horrible.  A cgi trailer is not a way to highlight the good and ignore the bad, except in games where the graphics are bad.  Of course, I'm not saying that ESO shouldn't have had a trailer, I've watched their combat and it's very ragged right now, someone mentioned that the animations are still being worked on.  Makes sense why they'd spend the money.

TLDR:  CGI trailers aren't good marketing unless your alternatives are to show bad graphics/animations while doing nothing but farming mobs.

Then my friend YOU just miss the point of marketing. Marketing just like CGI is not meant to be an accurate representation it is designed to highlight the good and completely sidestep the bad. its to get you to interested long enough to look it up and get it to stick to your mind.

The reality is that its up to the individual to judge for themselves whether they like it or not. The only way to not be a victim is to not get excited about anything until it is release.

edit: Just to add a lot of people have the tending to blame hype for simply not liking a game, which is really not the fault of anybody. essentially, my point is just because you don't like something doesn't necessarily make it a bad product or bad marketing.

Edited by Specialz, 03 February 2013 - 02:16 AM.

[Arngrim Einheri]

Dervo, on 02 February 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Honestly, that video reminds me of warhammer online, which was a horrible game.  Actually, it was worse cause the "players" only fought against general mob enemies before circling around each other, at least warhammer's showed how the different professions interacted with each other.

Warhammer wasn't a horrible game, it had a lot of good ideas that weren't translated correctly into the game. In fact, GW2 has adopted some of WAR's ideas like public quests (dynamic events) and the RvR style. WAR at the same time was based in DAOC's game concept.
One of my best experiences I had in any MMORPG PvP was in WAR. Having to fight through an opossing player force defending an enormous keep to be able to reach their capital, bring the fight to the streets and then go for their leader, defeat him and ocupy their main city? I wish GW2 had something even remotely similar to that.

Although dungeons in that game were horrible, I give you that.

Edited by Arngrim Einheri, 03 February 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Gilles VI]

Rezo, on 02 February 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

If they have money to spend them on trailers and on creation of the game I don't really see a problem here.And it looks really nice btw.

Even if it only costs 100.000 dollar, they could still have spend it better on development..

[Arquenya]

Arngrim Einheri, on 03 February 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Warhammer wasn't a horrible game, it had a lot of good ideas that weren't translated correctly into the game. In fact, GW2 has adopted some of WAR's ideas like public quests (dynamic events) and the RvR style. WAR at the same time was based in DAOC's game concept.
One of my best experiences I had in any MMORPG PvP was in WAR. Having to fight through an opossing player force defending an enormous keep to be able to reach their capital, bring the fight to the streets and then go for their leader, defeat him and ocupy their main city? I wish GW2 had something even remotely similar to that.

Although dungeons in that game were horrible, I give you that.

Let's say WAR wasn't a 100% horrible game!

I absolutely loved the gear looks, I would kill for WAR gear in GW2 (or in any game)!
And true, they were the first ones that introduced "world events", before Rift did it. In a way they were even better than GW2's as they were "on demand" and you didn't have to wait for an unknow amount of time until they started.

The PvP only gear grind after reaching max lvl was really bad, though.
I definitely hope TESO won't be like that; they haven't really said a lot about the endgame yet.

Edited by Arquenya, 03 February 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[FoxBat]

Gilles VI, on 03 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Even if it only costs 100.000 dollar, they could still have spend it better on development..

http://www.industryg...t--200-million/

Marketing is a reality of anything. You have to sink money into getting the word out and not just your product itself. Sometimes, it's worth much more than development. (Four times?) Hollywood movies can be even worse.

Anet didn't really do away with this either. They picked a cheap route, but they still had to put some money into all that animated concept art, scripting the in-game sequences perfectly, trailer music and voice acting, etc. It's all cost sunk into marketing with no benefit on the game itself. (Not to mention that horrible live action trailer...) And throwing those ads up on movie screens cost them much more than simply developing the ads in the first place.

[Gilles VI]

FoxBat, on 03 February 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

http://www.industryg...t--200-million/

Marketing is a reality of anything. You have to sink money into getting the word out and not just your product itself. Sometimes, it's worth much more than development. (Four times?) Hollywood movies can be even worse.

Anet didn't really do away with this either. They picked a cheap route, but they still had to put some money into all that animated concept art, scripting the in-game sequences perfectly, trailer music and voice acting, etc. It's all cost sunk into marketing with no benefit on the game itself. (Not to mention that horrible live action trailer...) And throwing those ads up on movie screens cost them much more than simply developing the ads in the first place.

I know that, but I still think spending the money on development, or using the marketing budget for in-game footage trailers, is a muuuuch better way to go.
Especially because alot of the people that play games have been disappointed quite alot of times now because of CGI..
In my group of friends that game, CGI just shows you have no meaningfull/beautifull footage to show.

Edited by Gilles VI, 03 February 2013 - 05:55 PM.

[Arquenya]

Gilles VI, on 03 February 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

I know that, but I still think spending the money on development, or using the marketing budget for in-game footage trailers, is a muuuuch better way to go.
Especially because alot of the people that play games have been disappointed quite alot of times now because of CGI..
In my group of friends that game, CGI just shows you have no meaningfull/beautifull footage to show.

We'll see. After all, WoW also had loads and loads of cinematics (ever since warcraft 2). And there's already a few vids around, although it's like 10 months before release. You never know how it's going to end up.

After all, GW looked quite strange when they released their first (pre?) alpha screenshots. It doesn't say all that much.

Edited by Arquenya, 03 February 2013 - 10:22 PM.

[BuddhaKeks]

Arquenya, on 03 February 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

We'll see. After all, WoW also had loads and loads of cinematics (ever since warcraft 2). And there's already a few vids around, although it's like 10 months before release. You never know how it's going to end up.

After all, GW looked quite strange when they released their first (pre?) alpha screenshots. It doesn't say all that much.

GW was completly overhauled, which is by no means a normal practice. While things of course get refined and changed during development, rarely to such a degree. Therefore GW is hardly a good example.

[Gilles VI]

Arquenya, on 03 February 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

We'll see. After all, WoW also had loads and loads of cinematics (ever since warcraft 2). And there's already a few vids around, although it's like 10 months before release. You never know how it's going to end up.

After all, GW looked quite strange when they released their first (pre?) alpha screenshots. It doesn't say all that much.

Yes exactly, WoW had CGI too, and just compare it to their gameplay..

[Kamatsu]

Thread is going off topic again. Please get back to discussing The Elder Scrolls Online.

[Own Age Myname]

Yeah never get why people care if there's CGI or not...if you don't like it don't watch it? I mean who cares how others spend their money.

[Red J]

BuddhaKeks, on 03 February 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

How is that obvious? First of those supposed Bosmer in tribal armor are taller than the "Altmer", atleast the male one on the left. However Bosmer males are smaller than females (on average) and certainly smaller than Altmer. They look more like tribal Bretons to me, similar to the Reachmen from Skyrim.
Also the guy leading the attack with those ballistas again wears black-yellow, those are the colors of the Thalmor. If he is supposed to from the Daggerfall Convenant, than they failed to make him look like that. Espeacially since he seems to have a yellow-ish skin color, which would again hint at him being an Altmer. So please tell me what's so obvious about this.

Well, watch it again, then. First of all, it couldn't be Reachmen because they are not part of Daggerfall Covenant, as stated by devs. In the last scene, it is visible that the Altmer woman IS taller than the Bosmers behind her, although not by much. We don't even know their gender. They could be females. Or she might be shorter than avarage Altmer for all we know.

Secondly, the hooded guy wears yellow-Blue, not yellow-black. And he definitely doesn't have yellowish skin. You might want to check settings of your screen. I think that's where your problem lies.

[BuddhaKeks]

Red J, on 05 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Well, watch it again, then. First of all, it couldn't be Reachmen because they are not part of Daggerfall Covenant, as stated by devs. In the last scene, it is visible that the Altmer woman IS taller than the Bosmers behind her, although not by much. We don't even know their gender. They could be females. Or she might be shorter than avarage Altmer for all we know.

Secondly, the hooded guy wears yellow-Blue, not yellow-black. And he definitely doesn't have yellowish skin. You might want to check settings of your screen. I think that's where your problem lies.

I watched it several times now and paused at the important parts. First of all, I did not say those are reachmen, I just said they are tribal, and Bretons are known to have tribal factions, like the reachmen. Secondly the two guys behind the elven mage are male and female, it's pretty obvious, unless the one on the left (from the viewer side) is a chick with a manly physique, which I doubt. The one on the right seems to be female and is smaller than the mage, but the one left, is not only taller than the one on the right, but atleast as tall as the mage.
Then I looked closer, and it seemed they have pointy elf like ears, but that might as well be part of that skull helmet. It's just too blurry to make out. But judging by height alone, I'm pretty sure the one on the left is no Bosmer. However we also don't get a good look at their faces, so he might be Khajiit. Atleast it said that there types of Khajiit that look almost like elves. On the other hand, I don't think we can customize our Khajiit to look like that so I doubt they would show them in a trailer (especially since it's a rather obscure lore reference, that most people wouldn't get).

Lastly, the hooded guy has blue straps on his armor, but whole thing looks black. And his skin looks more yellow-ish than the elf mage's face. Besides that, his facial structure looks more elfish than human. Too bad we can't see his ears, but I'm 90% sure that is an Altmer, while the elf mage looks like Bosmer (rather small, pink skin, nothing on her looks Altmer like.

[Targanwolf]

I bought GW2 for what I thought Elder Scrolls Online is shaping up to be. World class faction vs faction conflict(or in the case of GW2 server vs server conflict).I've stopped playing GW2.

Not playing GW2 anymore...Playing SKYRIM  to get into the Elder Scrolls world even if it's single player.

Edited by Kamatsu, 09 February 2013 - 11:11 PM.
Removing non contributing GW2 discussion

[Specialz]

Targanwolf, on 09 February 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I bought GW2 for what I thought Elder Scrolls Online is shaping up to be. World class faction vs faction conflict(or in the case of GW2 server vs server conflict).I've stopped playing GW2.

Not playing GW2 anymore...Playing SKYRIM  to get into the Elder Scrolls world even if it's single player.

Quick question, how did you know what ESO was shaping to be? Considering we only know what the developer says. Finally, isn't that how most faction games are, you fight and keep fighting for the sake of fighting? (I never played DAoC)

Also ESO is not going to be like its single player counterpart either.

Edited by Kamatsu, 09 February 2013 - 11:12 PM.
removing deleted quoted text

[Impmon]

Well if you compare WOW development to current trends the Horde were an afterthought addition to the game near the end of early closed beta.  All their early beta development was alliance content.  Everything they released was alliance this or that.  Suddenly they say oh you can play Horde too.  It didn't seem to affect the quality of release although anyone with half a brain could immediately see the disparities between the two factions.  Early on mouth breathers tried to downplay the obvious benefits of playing alliance by saying "horde were for hardcore players."

[Winterclaw]

A few years ago, I would have been interested.  Today?  Not so much.

While the elder scrolls games are certainly big enough, particularly Daggerfall, for being an MMO, they weren't meant to be multiplayer if you ask me.  Some games need a multiplay aspects, TES doesn't if you ask me.

[Juanele]

Actually I wouldn't mind if the game was just co-op or multiplayer. But I'm not enthused about it being an mmo. It just seems like there are too many Elder Scrolls features they are removing in order to make it an mmo.

[Specialz]

Juanele, on 11 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Actually I wouldn't mind if the game was just co-op or multiplayer. But I'm not enthused about it being an mmo. It just seems like there are too many Elder Scrolls features they are removing in order to make it an mmo.

I doubt even Todd Howard is happy about his series possibly being weaken by the prospect of ESO (similar to swtor assuming worst case). Anyways, it seems like the parent company saw WoW and thought they could make a few bucks (considering when the game started development).

Then again a wise man once essentially said, people don't know what they want until they see it.

Edited by Specialz, 11 February 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[FoxBat]

http://www.penny-arc...scrolls-during-

This is the first preview that has me hopeful for the game. I say this because unlike the rest of the industry, PAR has written some fairly scathing previews before (see Marvel Heroes), and despite their complaints here, it overall looks decent. News to me that they are even copying the story/explorable dungeon setup, but I'll take GW2 cloning over WoW cloning anyday.

[xarallei]

People are arguing quite heatedly over the report that ESO won't have raids. Several threads were up on the official (temporary) forums:
http://forums.bethso...ral-discussion/

I'd like to know for sure whether this is true because there seems to be conflicting info on it. Some people argue that the "Adventure Zones" can scale from solo to large groups so that will be the "raid" content. I'm kind of skeptical on that point. Plus, one article on ZAM said that AZs won't be ready for launch.

[Heart Collector]

xarallei, on 20 March 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

People are arguing quite heatedly over the report that ESO won't have raids. Several threads were up on the official (temporary) forums:
http://forums.bethso...ral-discussion/

I'd like to know for sure whether this is true because there seems to be conflicting info on it. Some people argue that the "Adventure Zones" can scale from solo to large groups so that will be the "raid" content. I'm kind of skeptical on that point. Plus, one article on ZAM said that AZs won't be ready for launch.

It WON'T have raids?! Now my interest is piqued!

Yep, I'm one of those people who hate raiding with a passion. Or at least, hates it when it feels mandatory to get something done in PvE due to being the only avenue of meaningful progression. I'd rather their open world adventure zones had areas that required raid-amounts of people and great tactics rather than the usual horrible "use capital city like a lobby and port into a linear slog with 20 other dudes" treadmill common to themepark MMOs. RPG worlds are meant to be enjoyed, explored and devoured by the players, not simply used as a vessel for leveling and then forgotten... Might as well play a lobby game then rather than a persistent world game...

That been said, I'm actually not against raiding being implemented, as long as it remains a feature of PvE endgame rather than becoming the entire endgame. If TESO implemented raids but only as one of the many activities of endgame rather than the be all end all of max level, I'm happy to have it in the game, even though I won't raid. But I really really DON'T want to see this Elder Scrolls title - which have always been about freedom, exploration and discovery - devolve into yet another raiding game.

Edited by Heart Collector, 20 March 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[Gorwe]

Just a quick question to see if this Game's another disaster in disguise:

Subscription-is it mandatory? Or does it even exist?

If the answer to both questions is YES-they are living in the past and I want to have nothing with such devs.
If the answers are mixed-I may look into it.
If the answer to both questions is NO-then it could be b2p and I'll certainly look into it.

Thanks for the answer!

[FoxBat]

At the above linked press event they still refused to talk about business model. To me that basically equates to subscription but nothing has been confirmed.