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#931 Heart Collector

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:39 PM

Huh... Glad I didn't buy it as I had originally planned. I'll stick with the original plan and wait for it to go f2p. And if it doesn't, meh, no love lost.

#932 Corsair

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:15 PM

I think it says something very bad about MMOs that are releasing these days that people are waiting for them to go F2P before they are released. And when they do release that is usually the first thing out of so many peoples' mouths after hearing the inevitable reviews. They really need to move on, as a whole, or double down and make that sub fee worth it.

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#933 MazingerZ

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:33 PM

View PostCorsair, on 10 April 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

I think it says something very bad about MMOs that are releasing these days that people are waiting for them to go F2P before they are released. And when they do release that is usually the first thing out of so many peoples' mouths after hearing the inevitable reviews. They really need to move on, as a whole, or double down and make that sub fee worth it.

I'm honestly trying to think about who does the long-thinking for these companies.

If you release with a bunch of bugs, you're going to not only have to address the launch bugs, but also work on your next content patch in tandem, because otherwise the players are going to chew through content and leave when they're done.

Why create double the work for yourself?  Why not get launch as close to perfect as you can get away with and then put all your launch revenue into keeping the game up and running.

It's really insane to see how broken a game is at launch... not on a "oh shit, the scale of it" but in a functionally, fundamentally broken way.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#934 Kysio

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:06 AM

View PostMazingerZ, on 10 April 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

I'm honestly trying to think about who does the long-thinking for these companies.

If you release with a bunch of bugs, you're going to not only have to address the launch bugs, but also work on your next content patch in tandem, because otherwise the players are going to chew through content and leave when they're done.

Why create double the work for yourself?  Why not get launch as close to perfect as you can get away with and then put all your launch revenue into keeping the game up and running.

It's really insane to see how broken a game is at launch... not on a "oh shit, the scale of it" but in a functionally, fundamentally broken way.

It would seem that 5mln beta testers that they bragged about a while back were not enough to properly test the game. Or rather someone did not listen to the feedback.
Then again what do you expect from new studio that didn't do anything like this before?

#935 Kamatsu

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:23 PM

View PostKysio, on 11 April 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

It would seem that 5mln beta testers that they bragged about a while back were not enough to properly test the game. Or rather someone did not listen to the feedback.
Then again what do you expect from new studio that didn't do anything like this before?
Combination of not listening to feedback and not giving themselves the proper time, or having the ability to, fix and/or change things as needed. The fact that the beta players were also on older and outdated clients did not help - and this is both the beta's right before release, and beta's they had like 2 months earlier. Unless you were strictly placed in the inner-circle of main tester's... all yuo got put on was an older, buggier client.

I was in 3 of the more recent beta's, but I've spoken to people who were involved in beta's way before... and fact is a lot of bug reports happened, a lot of suggestions were made... and little actually got done. There are bugs in main storyline quest's that made it to release, that were reported 2-3 months prior to release. I'm talking about bugs that literally stop you getting any further in the story, not some minor glitch... you get hit with it and that character is screwed. That kind of game-breaking bug should never have ever made it to launch... but it did.

The game was not ready for launch, and as many, many games nowdays are done.. was rushed to launch to get out asap.... and all for the purpose of cutting the cost of development and short term gains. Basically Zenimax blew the budget and decided to release, rather than just giving themselves more time and money. Cuz hey, it's Elder Scrolls! That can't fail right? *coughs Star Wars: The Old Republic would like to have a word about that*. Seriously, if felt in the last few months they were pushing as fast as they could to get this out, irrespective of how buggy it was, how badly designed, how many faults and flaws it's tester's came up with - short term thinking and focusing on short term goals.

Sadly this is what happens when companies who have NEVER done MMO's before... decide to make an MMO. Look at SW:TOR... and now look at TESO. Same bloody mistakes - rushed end development, ignoring bug & suggestion reports by it's testers, absolutely atrocious customer service at launch regarding launch and payment problems, bugged to death main storyline missions, dev's completely ignoring anything negative about the game, etc.

End result will be the same: F2P before the end of the year. Else gone bust and offline in 9-18 months if they refuse to go F2P.

Edited by Kamatsu, 11 April 2014 - 12:23 PM.

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#936 raspberry jam

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:45 PM

View PostCorsair, on 10 April 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

I think it says something very bad about MMOs that are releasing these days that people are waiting for them to go F2P before they are released. And when they do release that is usually the first thing out of so many peoples' mouths after hearing the inevitable reviews. They really need to move on, as a whole, or double down and make that sub fee worth it.
I think that the main reason why people say that is that, first off, there are F2P competitors to the game that aren't that much worse, and second, MMOs don't offer what those people actually want. Most of all that last part. MMOs is a way to waste away time, a way to tell yourself that what you "work" for really matters. And that's how people play them. But what those people want is to actually matter, not to work away at nothing.

The reason I always say that EVE is the best MMO out there is that it seems to be the one where the "what you do matters" thing is done in the best way. Not a particularly good one, but still the best out there. Players shape the world, and yet things don't go too much haywire. At the same time, even the efforts of a single player can potentially have a decisive impact on relatively huge things. Also, the stuff on this list is possible in other MMOs using glitches/hacking/bugs (or by just being rude in the case of #4), but they are possible in EVE by design, and quite possibly (at least the assassination) by intent as well.

I think that they need to "double down" too, but on making the structure that allows stuff like that to happen instead of making content that gets boring even the first time you play through it, content that is stretched so thin that you can piss through it, content designed to prevent players from beating it all in less than two weeks - which is bound to happen anyway.

#937 Veji

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 02:46 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 11 April 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

I think that the main reason why people say that is that, first off, there are F2P competitors to the game that aren't that much worse, and second, MMOs don't offer what those people actually want. Most of all that last part. MMOs is a way to waste away time, a way to tell yourself that what you "work" for really matters. And that's how people play them. But what those people want is to actually matter, not to work away at nothing.

The reason I always say that EVE is the best MMO out there is that it seems to be the one where the "what you do matters" thing is done in the best way. Not a particularly good one, but still the best out there. Players shape the world, and yet things don't go too much haywire. At the same time, even the efforts of a single player can potentially have a decisive impact on relatively huge things. Also, the stuff on this list is possible in other MMOs using glitches/hacking/bugs (or by just being rude in the case of #4), but they are possible in EVE by design, and quite possibly (at least the assassination) by intent as well.

I think that they need to "double down" too, but on making the structure that allows stuff like that to happen instead of making content that gets boring even the first time you play through it, content that is stretched so thin that you can piss through it, content designed to prevent players from beating it all in less than two weeks - which is bound to happen anyway.

I agree, but if the case is that you are looking for results on your actions for what you do in a game, then why not go play something where you'll see that like a Minecraft, or a Terraria, or any given sandbox game?

I mean the word "genres" exists for a reason.  You don't go into a FPS thinking that there is going to be some way to lounge around a new age apartment drinking martini's with your virtual BFFs, because its not a SIMs game.  You don't download a F2P crack phone or tablet game looking for deep and meaningful character building and storytelling elements while crushing rows of same colored objects, because its not an RPG.

The problem here, and with any game, is the big "E" word.  People just haven't learned that you're not gonna get strawberries with your PB&J sammich, because the norm is JUST the PB&J sammich.

#938 MazingerZ

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:03 PM

View PostKamatsu, on 11 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

End result will be the same: F2P before the end of the year. Else gone bust and offline in 9-18 months if they refuse to go F2P.

Sad fact is that if they just convinced upper that they could turn it around with a little more capital, they probably could.  Seriously, it's not like its a lost cause... people bounce from game to game all the time in this genre and people will come back if the game is improved.  See FFXIV, DCUO and STO.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#939 raspberry jam

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:27 PM

View PostVeji, on 11 April 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

I agree, but if the case is that you are looking for results on your actions for what you do in a game, then why not go play something where you'll see that like a Minecraft, or a Terraria, or any given sandbox game?

I mean the word "genres" exists for a reason.  You don't go into a FPS thinking that there is going to be some way to lounge around a new age apartment drinking martini's with your virtual BFFs, because its not a SIMs game.  You don't download a F2P crack phone or tablet game looking for deep and meaningful character building and storytelling elements while crushing rows of same colored objects, because its not an RPG.

The problem here, and with any game, is the big "E" word.  People just haven't learned that you're not gonna get strawberries with your PB&J sammich, because the norm is JUST the PB&J sammich.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. The MMO genre could be really cool, but instead we get... Well, we get the current MMO genre.

Now the sad part is that it's not the budget that prevents good MMOs from being made, but the desires of people who have no idea about what makes a game fun. That is what forces devs to create boring content. Instead of trusting their players to be the content.

#940 Stargate

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 04:43 PM

View PostVeji, on 11 April 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

I agree, but if the case is that you are looking for results on your actions for what you do in a game, then why not go play something where you'll see that like a Minecraft, or a Terraria, or any given sandbox game?
Perhaps because I hate the graphics in those two games and I am not sandbox type of player. Nostalgia? I get it some people like the graphics in them because of nostalgia very old style graphics. I want my games look at fairly ok. Neverwinter MMO has ok graphics. Baldurs Gate Deluxe version would give me some nostalgia and at least look ok even today for me.

Look sandbox or not everyone can find their playstyle, but the main problems:
A. Pricing.
B. Bugs(seems really unpolished).
and some subjective annoyances like for example for me you can get 72 hours ban if you do bosscamping. I mean it has subfee and wait you can banned 72 hous for a natural thing like boss camping/looting. For a none sub game that time ban would be less harsh.

I hope it becomes F2P, but at same time I am realist and do not expect that to happen. I keep my mind open if you ask me is this going to be free to play I would say I really do not know and that remains to be seen. I have not buyed this game, but I keep an eye on it to see what happens.

Edited by Stargate, 12 April 2014 - 04:50 PM.


#941 Kamatsu

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 04:09 AM

View PostMazingerZ, on 11 April 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Sad fact is that if they just convinced upper that they could turn it around with a little more capital, they probably could.  Seriously, it's not like its a lost cause... people bounce from game to game all the time in this genre and people will come back if the game is improved.  See FFXIV, DCUO and STO.
I agree - if they knuckled down and dealt with the issue's, they could still turn things around. They will need to put effort into fixing all the gamebreaking bugs that are in the game, redesign some of the instance/dungeon/questing aspects, and sort out their atrocious customer service. That isn't impossible to do however. We'll see what eventuates over the next few months.

I just hope people don't think I'm dead against sub based games - I have no issue with that, as long as there is value to what your paying for. I've personally played both WoW and Eve Online and had no problem subbing for them, they were worth the money IMO. As it stands with TESO in the state it is in right now? That's doubtful.

Here's another video with a discussion & personal opinion on the game:


- Look at the barebones native UI.
- To have decent UI, you need to use player mods
- Terrible inventory system
- can 'expand' storage by feeding horses, but can only get 1 slot a day
- Horse prices are bloody redic, unless you have the Imperial Edition.
- major quest to unlock a town located in a public instance - where other people can prevent you being able to complete the quest by walking into a room and killing the spawns before they do the event they need to do.
- If this happens, you then have to wait for respawn... and hope this doesn't happen again. Ppl are waiting 2-3+ hours just to be able to do this quest
- This quest unlock's the town - so without finishing the quest you don't get access to any merchants, crafting stations, and other quest's that are there.

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#942 Gilles VI

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:58 AM

View PostStargate, on 12 April 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

I hope it becomes F2P, but at same time I am realist and do not expect that to happen. I keep my mind open if you ask me is this going to be free to play I would say I really do not know and that remains to be seen. I have not buyed this game, but I keep an eye on it to see what happens.

I'd say being realistic is thinking the game will be F2P in 2 years maximum in the case of ESO :P

View PostKamatsu, on 11 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Sadly this is what happens when companies who have NEVER done MMO's before... decide to make an MMO. Look at SW:TOR... and now look at TESO. Same bloody mistakes - rushed end development, ignoring bug & suggestion reports by it's testers, absolutely atrocious customer service at launch regarding launch and payment problems, bugged to death main storyline missions, dev's completely ignoring anything negative about the game, etc.

End result will be the same: F2P before the end of the year. Else gone bust and offline in 9-18 months if they refuse to go F2P.

I must give Zenimax that the servers were better at launch than many other MMO's. But pretty much everything, from bugged quests, to banks that get reset, to the limitless amount of griefing in dungeons/quests is so bad that this launch is on the same level as SWTOR launch for me.

Edited by Gilles VI, 13 April 2014 - 11:56 AM.


#943 FoxBat

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 03:46 PM

View PostKamatsu, on 13 April 2014 - 04:09 AM, said:

- Look at the barebones native UI.
- To have decent UI, you need to use player mods

Player UIs are always going to stick more info in than devs want to give: that doesn't mean you actually get a better game experience though. Verbose text floaters and filling the right side of your screen with quests pulls you away from the action in the world, even if there is some efficiency advantages there.

Personally I'm happy we do not have DPS meters infesting GW2 or D3 because they chose not to let players extend visible information with mods. The fact that ESO allows mods though means there are going to be players sucked into this trap to remain competitive, particularly in PvP, no matter how spartan the base UI is.

Minimal UI also has something to do with the game being played on TVs eventually.

Edited by FoxBat, 13 April 2014 - 10:34 PM.


#944 raspberry jam

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:12 PM

View PostFoxBat, on 13 April 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

Player UIs are always going to stick more info in than devs want to give: that doesn't mean you actually get a better game experience though. Verbose text floaters and filling the right side of your screen with quests pulls you away from the action in the world, even if there is some efficiency advantages there.

Personally I'm happy we do not have DPS meters infesting GW2 or D3 because they chose not to let players extend visible information with mods. The fact that ESO allows mods though means there are going to be players sucked into this trap to remain competitive, particularly in PvP, no matter how spartan the base UI is.

Minimal UI also has something to do with the game being played on TVs eventually.
The problem is though that if the story and immersion isn't compelling enough (which it very rarely, if ever, is in MMOs), efficiency is the only thing that's left to play for.

And lol @ not having a 1080p TV. But you actually meant "played on consoles" didn't you?

#945 Shizu

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:59 PM

Lasted two days on this piece of shit.

The good: they obviously tried to attract the DAoC crowd, still waiting for a good open-world pvp after ten years. The RvR seems to have good potential.

The bad: everything else. It's just awful. In those two days I was constantly asking to myself "Am I really doing this shit AGAIN?"
Repetitive fed-ex quests to fill time.
Camping quest mobs/objects and competing with other people.
Junk loot.
More junk loot.
Containters with junk loot everywhere.
Annoying mobs that give absolutely no exp.
Awful inventory management.
Incredibly boring leveling experience.
Kill X shit, gather Y shit.
The core of the game (RvR) is not a feasible option to level up.

Really, it's 2014. Why it's always the same copy/pasted shit we've already seen in the last ten years?
They had the right idea, to fill a specific niche (open-world pvp). Why put all the worst goddamn cliches of the entire mmorpg history on top of the core concept? Why does every single developer keep feeding us the same old, trite bullshit?

Again, look at eve online. They don't have millions of subs, but they've had - and still have - their steady 300k subs (I guess) for ten years. Why? Because they decided to fill a niche and actually stick to it. They didn't try to copy everyone else. They didn't try to improve what others have already done.
THAT is a succesful model, not this garbage clone n.2780023 wich is probably going f2p in less than a year.

#946 Kamatsu

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:00 AM

View PostShizu, on 16 April 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

Really, it's 2014. Why it's always the same copy/pasted shit we've already seen in the last ten years?
They had the right idea, to fill a specific niche (open-world pvp). Why put all the worst goddamn cliches of the entire mmorpg history on top of the core concept? Why does every single developer keep feeding us the same old, trite bullshit?

Again, look at eve online. They don't have millions of subs, but they've had - and still have - their steady 300k subs (I guess) for ten years. Why? Because they decided to fill a niche and actually stick to it. They didn't try to copy everyone else. They didn't try to improve what others have already done.
THAT is a succesful model, not this garbage clone n.2780023 wich is probably going f2p in less than a year.
As sad as it is, it boils down to one thing IMO: WoW.

Sadly it seems too many western developed MMO's have looked at WoW and the huge runaway success it has had, and tried to duplicate that... by either copying systems wholesale (ie SW:TOR) or partially. It seems they never looked at the big picture of WHY WoW became so big, and thus never really realized that just duplicating WoW would never work... as by the time they finish production, the time for entry that made WoW so big was gone, thus nothing following would ever be as successful. WoW became as big as it did as it entered the market at the right time, with a game that was easy to play and learn but offered challenge to hard-core players - this at a time when MMO's were not really 'friendly' to new or casual players, and in came WoW which was playable for both casual and hardcore.

It was timing that made WoW big, and anything following would arrive too late to jump on that bandwagon. Especially as now there is so many different options... yet western companies just keep trying to shove WoW'esque type games at us.... not understanding that it's not going to work anymore, as ppl want something different. Because as ppl rightfully say - "If I wanted to play a WoW like game, I'd play WoW and none WoW-Clone No.X". Because Wo|W does WoW like systems much, much better... so if you want to do a western MMO nowdays, you need to make it different to WoW... else all you'll get it is a big burst of players at launch, followed by ppl leaving to go back to other MMO's that ppl have invested time into.

Eve Online is actually GROWING in sub's each year. While it's nowhere near as large as WoW, the fact is... it's a niche game and focuses all it's development on what makes it great for that niche. Doing this they are managing to keep on growing each year - unlike just about every other MMO in the western market which looses sub's after the big initial launch jump (and WoW, which up till a few years ago was growing still). Even being as small as it is, Eve is one of the most successfull MMO's in history - not because of sub numbers or income produced, but due to longevity and growth of subs.

And sadly the trend of trying to follow WoW & imitate WoW doesn't seem to be stopping. Wildstar is the next WoW clone. Not sure about Everquest NEXT.

But IMO, this is the downfall of TESO - they tried to make a TESO flavored WoW-clone, and it shows. It also was launched way too soon - I wonder if the decision to launch as soon as it was... was due to the perceived threat of Wildstar & Everquest NEXT. Because of the nature of the gamebreaking bug's that are in TESO right now... there is no way it was ready to launch, yet it was rushed to launch in a seeming endeavor to beat the Wildstar launch.

Some of the game-breaking bugs & issue's I'm seeing in threads in TESO:

- Bug which wipes bank slot upgrades, which also wipes any items in those slots.
- Bug with quest progression, where ppl are unable to move onto Veteran level 1 (TESO's endgame, apart from RvR)
- Bug where dropped breadcrumb quest to go from V5 to V6 area can't be picked up if dropped (another progression breaking bug), and without the breadcrumb quest the other quest's don't appear.
- Bug's with various main storyline quest's through the main storyline that prevent progression, can sometimes be resolved by completely logging out the game and back in again.
- Issue where bosses in public dungeons, that are required to be killed for quest's, are being camped and killed virtually the instant they respawn... thus preventing ppl doing the quest to get the kill to complete the quest.
- Issue with the whole Vampire & Werewolf quest's & abilities, where player guilds can prevent anyone else from getting infected... and can "charge" gold to allow others to get access to a system in the game.
- Gold seller spam is apparently out-of-control. Zone chat is apparently useless as all it is is gold selling bot spammers, ppl have filled their /ignore list, ppl getting bombarded with invites to gold seller guilds, getting huge amounts on in-game mail from gold seller bots, etc.
- limited ignore list = great for gold seller spam bots, seeing as TESO apparently has 0 mechanism's in place to deal with gold seller spam bots.

Edited by Kamatsu, 17 April 2014 - 03:06 AM.

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#947 FoxBat

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:27 AM

View PostKamatsu, on 17 April 2014 - 02:00 AM, said:

But IMO, this is the downfall of TESO - they tried to make a TESO flavored WoW-clone, and it shows. It also was launched way too soon - I wonder if the decision to launch as soon as it was... was due to the perceived threat of Wildstar & Everquest NEXT. Because of the nature of the gamebreaking bug's that are in TESO right now... there is no way it was ready to launch, yet it was rushed to launch in a seeming endeavor to beat the Wildstar launch.

That ESO retread some old issues does not make it much of a WoW clone. Combat is not a copy-paste operation like ToR and Wildstar are. Its a handful of skills constrained only by resources, targeted healing is nonexistent, quests rely much more on phasing than "kill 10 rats." Whether it's fun is another question, but it's not very WoW aside from being more themepark than its single player series.

They did carry over some of the stupid things from WoW that have already been solved like resource node exclusion and mob spawning, but the mixture of extensive crafting ("junk loot", an ES staple) and not-so-extensive inventory (not an ES staple) is not really a WoW-specific thing. They are also finding out the hard way why public dungeons are not a thing in WoW.

EQN is being pretty radical with landmark. I have no idea if they will succeed but its more mine craft than anything right now.

Edited by FoxBat, 17 April 2014 - 03:29 AM.


#948 Kamatsu

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:05 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 17 April 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

That ESO retread some old issues does not make it much of a WoW clone. Combat is not a copy-paste operation like ToR and Wildstar are. Its a handful of skills constrained only by resources, targeted healing is nonexistent, quests rely much more on phasing than "kill 10 rats." Whether it's fun is another question, but it's not very WoW aside from being more themepark than its single player series.

They did carry over some of the stupid things from WoW that have already been solved like resource node exclusion and mob spawning, but the mixture of extensive crafting ("junk loot", an ES staple) and not-so-extensive inventory (not an ES staple) is not really a WoW-specific thing. They are also finding out the hard way why public dungeons are not a thing in WoW.
You are right in regards to what you said - and I think you've actually nailed something I was trying to say (but failed to). TESO has no real innovation, they are ticking boxes and is pretty much a bog-standard western MMO which is not trying anything new or different. It's taking both good and bad aspects from WoW, GW2, Rift, etc and plopping it all together... but apart from the story & setting, there is nothing "unique" to mark it as anything different to what is already available.

And for me, that is what I feel has been the effect from WoW - there are too few western dev's willing to go too far from the WoW formula and make their MMO unique and different to anything else around. SW:TOR? Copy of WoW with Star Wars skin, Rift? WoW with Rifts, TERA? WoW with 'action' combat, TESO? WoW with 'action' combat (like TERA / GW2 combat in many ways), rifts & ES lore/mechanics (ie the crafting).

And here's a video on some of the progression stopping bugs in TESO:

Edited by Kamatsu, 17 April 2014 - 07:03 AM.

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#949 FoxBat

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:37 PM

Well I try to play devils advocate vs. people not even playing the game. And initial reactions were positive. But...

http://kotaku.com/ma...line-1564641897

Some people think this has destroyed the economy already, given that this bug goes all the way back to beta (and has been exploited by some since day 1), with the 10x jump in RMT prices as an indicator:

http://www.reddit.co...ing_impacts_of/

Reddit is full of complaint and anti-complaint threads now, on this and other issues. Which says there aren't enough satisfied people to downvote these issues into oblivion anymore.

Edited by FoxBat, 18 April 2014 - 07:53 PM.


#950 Kamatsu

Kamatsu

    G'day Mate

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Posted Today, 05:17 AM

Things go from bad to worse for TESO - their automated ban system is quite literally terrible.

They have been doing massive ban sweeps in the past week, the problem is the automated system is bonkers and banning people that should never be banned. Also, apparently their CS is looking at reports and flagging the person doing the reporting rather than the people being reported... o_O

- People have reported that they have been kicked from the for "spamming" after falling through the world, as apparently if you bug out and fall through the ground... it spams the system and then kick's you as a spammer.
- The above people have been getting banned from the game by the ban sweeps, and forced to lodge support tickets and wait 3-7+ days for the reversal of the bans.
- People have posted that apparently they got banned for reporting bots and gold spammers...
- People got banned because they got flagged due to the duping bug/issue... even if they didn't knowingly use the bug (ie they bought a duped item from another player for instance, without knowing it was duped).

Now mind you, it seems that ZOS is doing the right thing and restoring ppl like those I just mentioned, as they should never have been banned, however this should never have happened in the 1st place IMO.

http://forums.elders...hat-is-going-on
http://forums.elders...zos-on-the-bans
http://forums.elders...d-from-the-site
http://forums.elders...uspect-behavior
http://forums.elders...why-no-response
http://forums.elders...nd-much-sadness

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