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Large-scale group (guild) organized PvE content?

pve endgame Guilds Raids End Game

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#2641 Rhydian

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 05:34 AM

View PostMaarius, on 26 June 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

what's so evil about a level-cap raise? It happens already in GW2 going from lv.1 to 10 or lv.79 to 80. The difference in GW2 is that once you are on a specific level, it won't take long to get the top tier (there is only 1 tier as it seems) gear. Colin said, that they want players on an equal footing, once you get lv.80 it won't take long.

also:

I dont see anything wrong with it, actually it almost makes sense, since they have level based zones and so much unopened map area.



I however do not see it iindicative of any massive gear stat increase or some justification for raiding content, to me thats just high speculation.

#2642 Phys

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 05:38 AM

View Postwildkytten, on 26 June 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

No, you and Trei are right, it won't be near the gear grind that WoW is and I do understand that.

But to me, one of the things is, when I was doing raiding on WoW and not playing GW for weeks, sometimes months, at a time, I never felt like GW had left me behind.  This has something Anet says they want people to feel in GW2 as well.  Well, if they had level cap increases in Factions or Nightfall or Eye of the North, I would have felt left behind.

It always felt good knowing I could put on my fissure armor, or some other armor from a different campaign and area and it was no better or worse than from anywhere else.

Well, if life makes me need to take a break from GW2 for a few months then, if a new expansion comes out, I will feel a need to "catch up" and that was how I felt in WoW every time an expansion hit.  It's not what I wanted with GW2.

Hopefully Anet will respond to my question that they have decided not to do it, but who knows at this point.

If its not for you, its not for you, but i think you were operating on a false assumption when you believed they would never raise the cap. They never said they wouldnt raise the cap, in fact early in development, they were thinking about having no cap at all, and using area limits, and diminishing returns on being high level (not sure how they fully planned this, because it was early talk, and never came to fruition)

Anyhow, If your problem is them breaking trust, i dont think you can say they ever said they wouldnt raise the cap. If its about a gear treadmill, it really isnt a gear treadmill, its just how they can expand the game. Based on their current game design, they essentially have to expand the cap, whereas GW1 used story gating and skill hunting to set up progression post 20, this game doesnt have that. The skills are available from menus, you dont have to find skill trainers deep in the end of a story zone, you dont have to hunt monsters that only people in the final chapter have access to for elites. Basically this games progression is built more around experience, and the only way they can really expand content, and still offer progression with thier current system style is by increasing experience caps.


As far as gear getting outdated, theoretically, they could decide to make stats cap on gear at 80, but i doubt they will, so most likely gear stats will get outdated, however, gear is usually not a strong issue in GW as far as obtaining max stats, And appearance is level irrelevant, Keep in mind some of the most challenging armor to get in the game will be at level 35 55 etc, they fully intend people to transmute their ascalonian tomb gear to max level gear if they like that look, thats part of the core design of the game.

#2643 Syncline

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 05:57 AM

View Postwildkytten, on 26 June 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

To me it's a matter of breaking trust.  Anet broke trust with me as a customer.  They have kept claiming that all future weapons and armor would not be more powerful, just different cosmetically.  Well, the raising of the level cap makes that a lie.  If they don't raise stats on gear, there is no need to raise the level cap.

It's probably that they will be introducing new skills and want to keep a sense of progression. which is why we currently have levels at all. Nothing's been said about increasing gear stats, though. It was an old interview in which they talked about possibly raising things; maybe they changed their minds recently. The problem with discussing the features of a game in development is that what they think might work then might not work later, etc. :<

I wouldn't drop the game yet or worry about gear progression. ANet has not yet *ed over folks with gear. Not even the Eye of the North expansion, which was higher-difficulty content and had new gear and such, made the old gear obsolete. And they may go with GW1's model of no level increase but newer skill unlocks.

They've never made a game, including this one, that should make you feel like you're being left behind. With a flat level curve, minimal gear differences, and many ways to level (you can level to 80 via craftings alone!), you can probably hit the new cap pretty quickly. And because there's little difference between crafted, karma and dungeon gear, you will not be left behind stat-wise for new gears, either.

Edited by Syncline, 26 June 2012 - 06:01 AM.


#2644 Shamadamun

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:04 AM

What would be wrong with raising the level cap? It just means more content and less power-plateauing. If they started increasing the stats on specific armor for level 80, THAT would be a problem!

#2645 Stargate

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:19 AM

View PostSyncline, on 26 June 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

I wouldn't worry about it. You'll likely be able to craft max-level gear or nab some for karmas when those expansions hit, too, so you won't be at a disadvantage. It'll mostly just mean that we'll have more pretty new skins to get.
No you are slightly wrong that I am pretty sure about. Of course you have to buy the expansion in order to be able to create max gear. As it should be! However if you buy expansion then you should be able to create max gear by crafting also.

View Postwildkytten, on 26 June 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

To me it's a matter of breaking trust.  SNIP!
Well be prepared for more changes. This is not GW1 crap system. Expansion will absolutely increase level cap and by the sound of it I am confident GW2 will have more levels then WOW after its first expansion. That said levelling time does not take so much time as in WOW at high levels...

I have stated a long time ago that would Anet release some cosmetic shit expansion then I would simply laugh and never buy it. That will though absolutely not happen. I find this hilarious.  BLAH BLAH accept GW2 as it is no raids. Well accept GW2 as it is expansions will increase level cap(100 % sure) and also the gear will be more or less powerful and maybe(very unsure) raids.

Edited by Stargate, 26 June 2012 - 07:24 AM.


#2646 Red_Falcon

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:19 AM

Speechcraft isn't my forte, but I'll try to get a message to you traditional MMO folks.

The fundamental issue here is that most of you hop in the GW2 train and try to apply common MMO logic to it, but this just won't work as the GW games work very differently compared to traditional MMO.
In these last pages I've seen many non-existant issues posted by people who don't know how the GW games work, such as gearing, leveling etc.
GW1 players know this to be a non-issue.

So here is a suggetion.
You should not think about GW2 as a traditional MMO (with all the common traditional MMO issues and logics) with the GW lore stamped on it.
You should think about GW2 as a GW1 with persistent world and content adapted to such a system.

Informing yourself about GW1 (and possibly playing it) should make you understand that most issues in your mind are tied to a different type of game category that GW2 simply does not belong to.
Just because a game has a persistent world it doesn't mean you can apply traditional MMO logic to it, much like you can't apply said logic to persistent world games such as Darkfall, Mortal, EvE, etc.

To make an analogy, sea turtles and sheeps can both walk lands on 4 legs, but they are completely different species of animals, the same way GW2 is a completely different form of game compared to the classic MMO.

#2647 Craywulf

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:22 AM

Raising level cap does not equate to raising the armor rating. If you look at Eye of the North expansion, you had to "level up" with individual title tracks to obtain the proper rank in order to gain access to new armors. These armors weren't any better stat-wise. They were perfect (max) level armors. I imagine in GW2 it will work the same way, except instead of leveling up individual title tracks, you'll simply be leveling up in most traditional way that MMOs do. There will be no difference between level 80 armor and level 100 armor (i'm not even sure it will be called level 100 armor, I think it will still be called level 80 armor) . Your character's power level is also locked at 80. Any leveling post 80 is purely aesthetic number and has no statistical value.

Edited by Craywulf, 26 June 2012 - 07:25 AM.


#2648 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:22 AM

Heh, well the fundamental problem is the lat few pages haven't even been on topic at all ;)  Thought I clicked on the wrong thread for a sec.
Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#2649 Red_Falcon

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:26 AM

View PostCraywulf, on 26 June 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

Raising level cap does not equate to raising the armor rating. If you look at Eye of the North expansion, you had to "level up" with individual title tracks to obtain the proper rank in order to gain access to new armors. These armors weren't any better stat-wise. They were perfect (max) level armors. I imagine in GW2 it will work the same way, except instead of leveling up individual title tracks, you'll simply be leveling up in most traditional way that MMOs do. There will be no difference between level 80 armor and level 100 armor. You're character's power level is also locked at 80. Any leveling post 80 is purely aesthetic number and has no statistical value.

Yup.

Considering it takes a week from 0 to 80 and very little time to get the best gear (common gear has the same stats as uber rare gear in GW), I imagine it would take a few days to "catch up" if an expansion with level cap change was made.
People don't get this because they are used to games where level cap increase means hundreds of hours of difference between players, which is obviously not the case here.

As I said previously these are issues of traditional MMOs that simply don't apply to GW.
If one persists to apply common MMO logic to GW2 he will never understand GW properly.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 26 June 2012 - 07:28 AM.


#2650 Chalky

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 07:32 AM

View PostRabidusIncendia, on 26 June 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

Heh, well the fundamental problem is the lat few pages haven't even been on topic at all ;)  Thought I clicked on the wrong thread for a sec.

Yeah, we're really rather off topic now.

Those of you who are interested in discussing raising the level cap in expansions (which I agree is a very interesting topic) please start a thread for this.

I'm going to take the fact that we're so off topic now to mean that after almost 3k posts in this thread it's probably time for it to be closed so that someone can start a fresh discussion on the topic at some point in the future, maybe after we have some more information relating to the subject.

Edited by Chalky, 26 June 2012 - 07:32 AM.

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