17 replies to this topic

[DarkWasp]

The situation

One of the biggest concerns that Guild Wars and other MMO players have about Guild Wars 2 is whether it will deliver an interesting system where builds and strategy really matter. At this time last weekend, the first ever public beta weekend event was nearing its end yet many players had not quite seen the potential that the game had for interesting and strategic combat.

Two things inspired me to write this post. Firstly, I think a significant number of fans were discouraged by builds and combat in the beta (whether they played in it or not) and I want to show them some of the game's potential that they may have missed. Secondly, I've been itching to put Guru's new database tooltip feature to use.

Did you know you can just drag the skill icons off the database into your post and the tooltips automatically work?

Anyway, I want to let everyone know how my experience with the beta actually encouraged me about builds and combat, but there are a few things I need to establish first.

• The build I'm about to show you is a very basic "glass cannon" high DPS, high crit chance and big finishing move build
  
• We were restricted to the two easiest zone level ranges, hard battles and more skillful play are to be expected in higher level zones
  
• The game's balancing is not finished, and that greatly affects the amount of strategy required to survive
  
• Its hard for players to come up with advanced builds in just three days time
  
• I played as a Warrior which is generally supposed to have the smallest learning curve

Basically I'm saying what I am about to show you is as simple and easy as it gets, and as the community gets better accustomed to the professions and as later level areas are unlocked, things should start getting more interesting.

However, take a look at my build and strategy and see for yourself how one of the simplest builds can actually get quite complex:

My build

Traits

Selectable:
Deep Strike and Warrior's Sprint

Automatic:
Versatile Rage and Precise Strikes (Database currently missing these)

Why?: Precision grants me a higher critical hit chance which increases my DPS. Gaining adrenaline from weapon swaps complements the fact that I swap from my DPS weapon to my finishing move weapon which uses adrenaline.

Utility skills

        

Why?: Thanks to my traits, each one grants me +40 precision.

Weapons

  
Greatsword and Rifle

Why?: Because the greatsword is great for DPS and taking on multiple targets, and the rifle is good for evasion and its high damage one-shot adrenaline skill.

My strategy

Single targets

Lower level or easy enemies:
This is where it make sense that people think PvE lacks strategy, again however, we were limited to the starter zones in the beta. Even then I ran into far more challenging situations than this.

To finish an easy enemy just hit:

• and wait the entire duration
  
• Finish with almost any other skill on the bar

Veteran or challenging enemies:
Some enemies can get a little difficult to solo, but I found a way to take a chunk out of their health bar at the start of the battle without taking many hits:

• to cripple and lure the enemy
  
• spin straight through the enemy
  
• to get back to the enemy
  
• It's kind of an assassin tactic, do a little damage, get out of range then rush back.
  
• After you rush back get ready to throw your hardest hits on the enemy.
  
• (Can be extended by starting with the rifle)

At this point I would look at my adrenaline level and act accordingly. If it was above 2 and a half bars I would skip the following step, but if it wasn't I would:

• to inflict vulnerability and lower the enemy's defense
  
• to try to get as much damage in as possible
  
• Dodge when appropriate
  
• Heal if necessary
  
• Watch the adrenaline bar

If my adrenaline bar was nearing full I usually began a different sequence:

• If possible, again as I can weapon swap while my sword is still airborne
  
• Weapon swap (Versatile Rage trait kicks in and finishes my adrenaline bar, or very near)
  
• to knock the enemy away
  
• to inflict vulnerability for the next attack
  
• hoping for a critical (my crit chance is very high thanks to my traits and signets)
  
• If the enemy is not dead, check my health and determine if I should switch back to the greatsword or strafe away and shoot.

Skill strategy doesn't end there, in all cases where my health was getting low I had to look at my enemy's health and pick one of these five scenarios and strategies:

• Enemy HP too high and uses ranged attacks - Turn around and run
  
• Enemy HP too high but only uses melee - Strafe away and shoot with the rifle until my healing skill recharges
  
• Enemy HP low and uses ranged attacks - Allow myself to get downed so I can rally after finishing the last bit of the enemy's health
  
• Enemy HP low but only uses melee - Strafe away and shoot with the rifle
  
• Enemy HP nearly non existent, another enemy lured - Run, do not risk getting downed a split second after the enemy dies
  OR if the low HP enemy is running away
  toward it, finishing that enemy off and getting a quick headstart on my run away from the new lured enemy

Multiple targets

The great thing about using a greatsword is it combines high DPS with AoE. For safety reasons, I rarely intentionally tried to lure more than one enemy, but it happened a lot unintentionally.

• Whenever possible use
  
• and Auto Attack
  
• watch carefully for unlured enemies
  
• watch lured enemies' health and my own

If an unlured enemy was approaching:

• away from that enemy to get away and also deal damage to the enemies I am fighting
  
• if my enemies are lined up or close to each other I can throw my sword at them to hit all of them from a distance

Now I decide based on my health or if they are melee or ranged enemies whether I should switch to the rifle and kill them one at a time, or wait for them to come to my new location and continue AoE with my greatsword.

If my health gets low I can use several downed strategies again:

• If I have one enemy almost dead, don't finish it off, I need to rally from it
  
• If my death penalty is high from rallying multiple times, throw the sword at them and run, don't risk downed
  
• If both enemies are almost dead, stop using AoE skills and focus on one, don't want to go down just after they die and risk new spawners taking me out

What have my traits been doing the whole time?

• My high critical chance is the result of filling my bar with signets and focusing my traits and gear toward precision gives Kill Shot a very high chance of dealing serious damage
  
• Since I have increased run speed while wielding melee weapons I can choose between staying and strafing with my rifle or switching to my greatsword and escaping when my health is low.
  
• I gain adrenaline on weapon swap so I can switch to my rifle and do my Kill Shot combo more frequently
  
• I am also granted adrenaline from my elite signet, which I might not have chosen if i did not gain +40 precision from having signets equipped.
  
• Thanks to Precise Strikes, my enemy is usually bleeding since I'm hitting criticals all the time. I do higher DPS but I also have to be mindful of using downed as a strategy as I can fall just after the enemy dies and lose my chance of rallying in a dangerous place.

And this is just one simple beta-rushed build, there are so many other possibilities and many other interesting ways to sequence weapon and utility skills based on those builds. My build was so simple that I never used anything but my heal skill on the right side of my bar, yet it still lead to strategic and interesting combat anyway.

There was a lot of room for mistakes in the starter areas, but who knows what we have in store for us when the rest of the game is unlocked?

In summary

I used more skills on my bar than I did in Guild Wars
If I don't count the auto-attack I still used four skills off each weapon which already makes eight. Add the two adrenaline or "burst" skills and that's ten right there. Finally, add the heal skill and I've got 11. In Guild Wars 1 it usually did not work out very well when players filled all eight skill slots with attack skills and such, so in general you would use 3-5 skills on a bar actively.

11 vs 3-5 - or - 11 vs 8 if you want to be generous to the prequel.

I did not spam skills mindlessly
Whenever I did screw up my skill sequence it prolonged combat or even got me killed. The better I got at the game, the better the game got. I could fight more enemies, level faster and survive longer once I figured out how to strategically use my skills instead of just mashing everything that wasn't recharging.

My build did affect my playstyle and strategy
You may be concerned that my weapons are the real playstyle changers and not the traits, but let me assure you that traits do a lot. For example, there is a trait that allows the rifle to shoot multiple enemies. If I had chosen that, my strategy and skill use would have been different.

There were enough challenges in the beta to require me to refine my strategy
Every now and then a group dynamic event would spawn near me while I was alone, but I would still try to beat it. There won't always be a huge crowd of players around (especially when they spread out after release) but this should not discourage you from attempting events.

There were many that I was unable to solo, but it was fun to try them anyway.

I barely scratched the surface
Well I got to level 32, I played for 41 hours and I nearly completed all of the area tasks, but that doesn't mean I experienced the whole game. It doesn't mean I've seen all of the builds and challenges that the game has to offer.

There are still 48 levels worth of traits and skillpoints to obtain and dozens of new zones to explore. Not to mention the fact that I did not get very far in only ONE part of ONE of the game's dungeons and never even touched personal story.

How did build and strategy affect YOU in the beta?

[Failmuffins]

Great post, love the layout.

I didn't use a thought-out build per say, but I did develop a stratagy on my Elementalist over the weekend that helped me survive in PvE. It focused on a high-risk, high-reward concept through using primarily Fire Attunement, and relying on my own situation awareness and reflexes to avoid incomming damage.

Since I love your layout, I'll steal it for my own post.

My build

Traits

Selectable:
Internal Fire (You deal 10%% more damage while in Fire Attunement)

Why?: Since my setup revolved around doing massive upfront damage and then kiting as I finished my foes off, the more damage I was capable of putting out all at once, the better.

Utility skills



Why?:

Glyph of Elemental Harmony has a good enough cooldown, plus the bonus effect is a nice touch. I wasn't fond of the 'pulse' heal signet, or the very length 'on use' cooldown of the passive heal ability, so I chose this one.

Glyph of Lesser Elementals gave me a nice bit of cannon fodder when mobs focused the elemental, and a very nice dps boost when they didn't. Lovely skill.

I never got a chance to use Glyph of Storms in the BWE since I only got my last slot near the end, but the concept was to use it for more AoE during dynamic events where others had the attention of the mobs.

Mist Form was my only non-damage based utility skill. I felt I needed a good 'hard escape', and wasn't all that fond of any other options so I picked this one up. When chained with Ride the Lightning , it gave me both an immunity and a very long-range escape mechanism (albeit Ride also had a risk factor as it tended to blast me towards any mobs in the general direction I was pointing in).

Weapons


Scepter and Dagger

Why?:

The scepter gave me both strong single target as well as AoE, enabling me to tackle more than one mob at a time much easier while keeping at a comfortable range. The constant burning that my autoattack applied was a nice touch too.

The offhand dagger gave me a decent Ring of Fire , and a very nice close-range burst move in the form of Fire Grab , though it does have the drawback of a very long cooldown.


My strategy

Single targets

Lower level or easy enemies:
Burst is the key. I'd start off with a Dragon's Tooth , and follow up immidiately with Phoenix . If timed right, both would hit at the same time and drop a foe nearly all the way. From there, it was simply a few auto-attacks or a for some juicy overkill.


Veteran or challenging enemies:
This is where situational awareness and kiting came into play. I found that I could kite most mobs without taking any damage simply by strafing in a circle. However, this would be a hit to my DPS since would miss virtually every time as mobs run right out of the circle. To counter this, I'd begin kiting in one direction (usually clockwise), drop my behind me so it hits my foe, and then hit Dragon's Tooth. The tricky part here is right when I used this ability, I would dodge towards my enemy - effectively rolling right past them, and causing them to turn around and stay within the AoE zone as Dragon's Tooth landed. I would then begin kiting in the opposite direction, and rinse and repeat until the mob was dead.

Of course, between all this I'd use my utility skills for further damage, or a hasty retreat if my kiting wasn't working.

Also, if the mob is a ranged type, I would gauge to see how long it would take for me to take them down. Generally, mobs that were simply two or three levels above me could be conquered with some well timed dodges, but I would avoid veteran if I didn't have backup.

Multiple targets

The lovely thing about using this setup is that what works for single target works pretty much identical for groups. I'd of course only engage groups that I thought I could take on, and use my escape mechanics to run away if I failed at situational awareness and pulled to many, or I underestimated my foes.

My one change in strategy was that any ranged mobs would die first. While using my strafing technique to avoid the melee, I would focus my firepower on the more dangerous ranged units that I couldn't avoid so easily.

In summary

It was challenging
As anybody who's played during the BWE knows, combat is no snooze-fest. You need to be on your toes and thinking smart if you don't want to find yourself in your underwear and on your way to the armourer. Except for mobs that were my level or below, I'd have to kite almost every single time, lest I want to die or have a big chunk taken out of my health.

It was adaptable
Sometimes I would change things up depending on the situation. If I was preparing for a tough fight, I might start off in Earth Attunement, get up a Rock Barrier for some additional mitigation, then charge in. Also, I flirted with Water from time to time; taking advantage of its healing to top me off while my signet was down, or to save my bacon as I ran away.

The only element I couldn't find much of a use for (ouside of Ride the Lightning) was Air. It felt like a weaker version of fire that sometimes had a bit more utility depending on the weapon used.

It was damn fun
I felt like I was walking a tightrope while using this high-damage build. Instead of relying on Earth Attunement's armor and mitigation to wade through my enemies, or Water's healing abilities to make up for my mistakes, I'd simply dance amonst my foes; flinging fire as I pleased while dressed up in some snazzy charcoal and ruby dyed gear that gave me the impression that I was a Firebender from the 'Avatar: The Last Airbender'  TV series.... *cough* >.>

And there you have it
Perhaps it's a build, perhaps it's just a strategy. Whatever it was, I had a lot of fun doing it. At the end of the day while playing with fire might be risky, it can also be quite rewarding as you explode your foes in a burst of smoke and flame.

Edited by Failmuffins, 07 May 2012 - 04:57 AM.

[garraeth]

@Failmuffins

I had pretty much exactly the same setup and playstyle as you. It rocked. Really, the only variant was your last Utility Skills. I only got to lvl 22, so only had 3 spots. I used Glyph of Elemental Harmony like you, and:
Signet of Air
Signet of Fire

Only becuase I didn't want to worry about extra buttons. And figured since I'm kiting so much, the speed boost would be helpful. I just got a new R.A.T. 7 so next beta will probably mix things up and map whatever new abilities I select to the new mouse buttons.

I also mapped dodge to one of my side mouse buttons (on my old Logitech G9x (2-side buttons)) and heals to the other side mouse button.

And for heals:
Signet of Restoration

The kiting was amazing, fun/exciting, and I was often able to take on Veterans with their adds.

And yea, drawing mobs through Ring of Fire was really fun! I'd start like you (Dragon's Tooth + Phoenix ) and then throw Ring of Fire down as the mobs came chasing after me. As things came off CD, I'd pull back around, and throw 'em down again -- pulling the mobs in the path of whichever ability I was popping off at that moment.

[DarkWasp]

Thanks, both of you. I've tried looking at the elementalist skills, but nothing really makes sense until I've tried the profession. Hopefully I will get a chance to this month.

garraeth, on 07 May 2012 - 05:35 AM, said:

I just got a new R.A.T. 7 so next beta will probably mix things up and map whatever new abilities I select to the new mouse buttons.

All of my weapon skills were bound to my mouse (Logitech G500), it was really nice.

[Licentia]

I also used Signets for precision on my warrior during the beta.  At level 20, I had a 92% chance to crit vs. level 20 mobs.  That will obviously scale down to more reasonable values as character level increases, but I still thought it was neat.

[Nephele]

You forgot some simple stuff. Like how to kill raned mobs with the rifle. First bind A and D to strafe left/right. Now whenever you fight ranged mobs stay at max range and hit A, D, A, D, A, D the whole time you're fighting. A good number of their attacks will straight up miss.

Also if you're going to do greatsword AoE on packs (which you should be, greatsword is awesome at it), you should get that trait that gives you endure pain when you hit 25% HP. It's far better than any other single trait when you're diving into a big pack of mobs.

EDIT: And if you're going to use rifle butt to give time to wind up your rifle burst skill, apply vulnerability before using rifle butt. If you do it after, the faster melee mobs will reach you before your burst goes off.

Edited by Nephele, 07 May 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[Vsin]

I was a bit of a nutcase in the beta, because the build I ended up settling on was:

RANGER

Weapons:




Utility Skills:

OR Troll Ungent is used over Heal as One if I'm in a situation where there's no way I can keep my pet alive.


Yeah, the 3 evade skills with no sidestepping Sword/Dagger Ranger, although TBH the Utility/Elite choices are idealized since I never got to unlock my third skill slot nor Elite.

Sword is essentially just spam 1 until I need to dodge/evade.  Which was insanely hard to do through all the beta lag.  I never really used crippling dagger though.

Shortbow was my bow of choice mostly because I preferred shorter distance circle kiting to long range siege.

Edited by Vsin, 07 May 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[DarkWasp]

Nephele, on 07 May 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

You forgot some simple stuff. Like how to kill raned mobs with the rifle. First bind A and D to strafe left/right. Now whenever you fight ranged mobs stay at max range and hit A, D, A, D, A, D the whole time you're fighting. A good number of their attacks will straight up miss.

Also if you're going to do greatsword AoE on packs (which you should be, greatsword is awesome at it), you should get that trait that gives you endure pain when you hit 25% HP. It's far better than any other single trait when you're diving into a big pack of mobs.

EDIT: And if you're going to use rifle butt to give time to wind up your rifle burst skill, apply vulnerability before using rifle butt. If you do it after, the faster melee mobs will reach you before your burst goes off.

I'll keep that in mind. I wish I had time to try more traits, we'll see how the next BWE goes. Though, if there is a character reset I owe it to myself to try another profession.

There are other strategies that I used, but I wanted to keep the topic at readable length. There is an image limit as well, even on those small icons.

[UssjTrunks]

You can't really start theorycrafting until much further into the game (you don't even have acess to traits at the start of the game, and you only get 2 utility skills until level 20). The dungeons and higher level content will certainly require strategy though.

Edited by UssjTrunks, 07 May 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[chuckles79]

Forgive the lack of polish, I'll come back later when I have time to add icons:

For a Ranger I found that if your connection could be laggy or you just didn't like mixing it up, you could go Longbow + Shortbow.

Start off with barrage, then your long range shot.  When the pet reached them, use Hunter's Shot on your preferred target.  They should drop pretty quick.

If that target was tougher than expected or part of a group, switch to your shortbow.  Poison arrows to start conditioning the group when they got close, use quick shot for damage while evading.  Then just spam 1 for a rapid fire skill that also bleeds.

You have other skills that you can use, and use crippling shot if one shakes off the previous cripple.  The concussion shot seems more for PvP, as it doesn't stun for very long and you typically don't need that much for early area PvE.


I only unlocked two utilties for PvE, I chose Flame trap and Sun Spirit.  I'll probably keep Sun Spirit and swap for Signet of the Hunt on the next BWE.  Flame trap was nice damage for AI rushers, but relies upon everything going right as you plan (not great when exploring new areas.

I loved Sun Spirit in PvE and PvP.  It gives ALL allies the chance to stack burning on targets and it happens often enough to make life unpleasant for enemies.

Edited by chuckles79, 07 May 2012 - 09:17 PM.

[Waar Kijk Je Naar]

Didn't use a specific build/strategy.

Everything was basically  123456790awdasdawdadwaas - win.

Combat from lvl 1-25 requires 0 strategy.

[DarkWasp]

UssjTrunks, on 07 May 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

You can't really start theorycrafting until much further into the game (you don't even have acess to traits at the start of the game, and you only get 2 utility skills until level 20). The dungeons and higher level content will certainly require strategy though.

That's somewhat the intent of the thread.

It isn't to show off my build, its to show off the fact that the game is affected by build. Though you're right, you do have to get to about level 20+ before things start getting interesting. It makes it difficult to try out multiple professions in one beta.

[Kysin]

Waar Kijk Je Naar, on 07 May 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Didn't use a specific build/strategy.

Everything was basically  123456790awdasdawdadwaas - win.

Combat from lvl 1-25 requires 0 strategy.

While your right that it does not "require" a specific strategy or build to level up and take down and enemy or two. I garuntee you will be more effective if you use them. I noticed after I learned my skills better and situations in which to use them, I was far more effective. Even in lower level areas.

Working on posting my strat/build atm.

[chuckles79]

Waar Kijk Je Naar, on 07 May 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Didn't use a specific build/strategy.

Everything was basically  123456790awdasdawdadwaas - win.

Combat from lvl 1-25 requires 0 strategy.

There is something to be said about making the trip to higher levels easier.  If one can select weapons, utility skills, and traits around a basic strategy then they'll get to lvl25+ much sooner and with fewer catastrophes.

I really appreciate the OP's look at low level strategy.  He shows which utilities and early traits he selects; but the strategy he shows can be used from lvl 7 on.  With the BWEs filled with low level players all spamming their highest damage skills; I can appreciate an appeal to nuanced play from the beginning of the game onwards.

[Kysin]

I was able to level up all the weapon skills in each attunement on my Elementalist, and I ended up favoring the staff personally. I spent about 50% of the BWE in PvE and got to level 23.

Strategy: Depending on whether I was with some guildies (DarkWasp (War) and Tsskies (Engi)) or soloing I would usually have a different approach. But because I was usually with guildies, I will focus on that, and bring some cross class combos into the discussion.

Weapon:

Attunements: I would say I used Fire the most, then Water, Air, and Earth the least.

Group Combat Strategy: If we were luring a group of 3+ enemies, I would normally start by casting to cause some chaotic damage then quickly and at this point the enemy was pretty close and the warrior would be engaging and taking the brunt of the attack. So because they are mobbed onto him does great AoE in a smaller area (and creates a fire field) so any blast or porjectile attack will do extra fire damage to them. Any enemies that ran straight to me, I would a straight line backwards, then they pursue me through that line of fire and burn to death rather swiftly. Now hopefully at this point we have dispatched all the enemies, but if we havn't and I notice my warrior buddy low on HP, I swiftly switch to Water Attunement and pop to heal him (again any blast skill will heal him even more because of water field). And then to slow enemies while he falls back for and . Meanwhile my Engineer friend who has a rifle and 2 projectile turrets is constantly renewing slow and doing damage on the enemys by shooting through the ice field. Now if we aren't making enough progress or unfortunately lure even more enemies I would switch to Air Attunement, throw out a hoping to stun the enemies in place and for a quick escape. Personal heal was and my utilities were (more AoE plus blast is very useful as an Ele), (criticals are nice), (so useful for retreating out of stunned).

In my oppinion the Ele is truly meant to be a teamplayer, most skills they use can be exploited with extreme usefulness by other classes. And I admit (up to lvl 20) playing by yourself could feel like lifeless skill mash at times, but the game is truly meant to played with others, so I have no problems!

Edited by Kysin, 07 May 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[DarkWasp]

chuckles79, on 07 May 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

There is something to be said about making the trip to higher levels easier.  If one can select weapons, utility skills, and traits around a basic strategy then they'll get to lvl25+ much sooner and with fewer catastrophes.

Indeed. Especially since I wanted to try elite skills before the end of a 3 day beta.

Some DEs and Veteran enemies were actually challenging though, so faster leveling wasn't the only reason to refine my strategy.

chuckles79, on 07 May 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

I really appreciate the OP's look at low level strategy.  He shows which utilities and early traits he selects; but the strategy he shows can be used from lvl 7 on.  With the BWEs filled with low level players all spamming their highest damage skills; I can appreciate an appeal to nuanced play from the beginning of the game onwards.

I suppose it could be used at level 7, though it took me till about level 25 before I started using it and stopped dying so much.

However, I think Kill Shot is pretty useless without a high critical chance.

[Elk]

I'm probably the worst player here, I was the player you'd see spamming barrage on the ground just for the pew pew noise I did my fair share of button mashing too.
My strategy was pretty basic, using single target now skills to move up to the for and then switching to a great sword to do a bit
More damage, then switching back to bow and using a knock back skill to heal a bit (regret
Not playing the guardian, the buffing and healing potential there looks interesting).

Also the traits look really nice too (I just never levelled high enough to use em QQ)

[DarkWasp]

Elk, on 08 May 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Also the traits look really nice too (I just never levelled high enough to use em QQ)

Trust me the game really kicks it up a notch (or two) once you start unlocking traits. I was feeling a little underwhelmed about the weapon skill system until traits and strategy came in. Now I love it.