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Your thoughts about the defense siege weapons in WvWvW? (Cannons, boiling oil pot and Mortar)

Siege Wvwvw Defense GW2 lol

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#1 Robotsnails

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:49 AM

Since we all played this first Bwe with either enjoyment or dissapointment, I wanted to know what was your thoughts about the defense siege weapons (Wether it's the keep upgrades or you building a trebuchet, arrow cart, catapult, etc on a castle wall).

Did you guys thought they would need some balancing or they would be perfect the way they are to fit with the war themed pvp and defending and such?


I didn't played much with boiling pot but I played plenty enough with cannon and mortar.

I know this is the start of the beta with mostly alot of players untraited and all but the defense weapons thermselves deal alot of damage when used right.

its not too hard to attack the cannon with a siege like trebuchet without getting striked back but that would be a different case with the mortar.

So in eternal battlegrounds, the ogrewatcher's tower, the mortar upgrade costed a measly 15 silver with a good tactical advantage since there is a gate and walls and the enemies will eventually be stuck in the bottleneck and thus getting mortared to death.

For thoses who haven't tried the mortar, an explosive shot deals about 10k-12k damage and the incidendary (excuse my second english language) about 9-10k with a huge aoe Dot dealing 312 damage per second.
My thoughts on the mortar is of course its really powerful but i don't think it needs any changing since once you get close to the wall, the mortar can't hit anyone close and it works the same way as a catapult or trebuchet, you gotta spin it around manually. you only need a decoy blueprint built out for the mortar to get tempted while another trebuchet gets built on the mortar's blind side.
Other than that I had more fun with the mortar than the cannon.

I know this is a bit of a wall of text but getting to the point, what were your thoughts on the defense siege weapons? or perhaps you wanna talk about other siege weapons used as extra defense?

#2 kash

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:02 AM

There were times where I felt siege weapons should have friendly fire but that was mostly out of frustration with how my side was bunching up and moving back and forth in the same spot over and over and it would open up a whole new list of problems. I think it boils down the most of the issues with WvWvW in that a three day beta weekend changes how people play.

#3 Gafgarion Deneith

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:08 AM

Boiling oil owns faces if there's a lot of people cramped up attacking the door, or if there's even 1 or 2 people, 2 shots = death most of the time.

#4 hyperstalker

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:22 AM

i thought the boiling pot was stupid. anytime i tried to use it it was impossible since everybody is aoeing on the gate and they would still hit you when you were up there.

#5 AzylynneN

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:41 AM

The oil was done right...it could wreak havoc as it should and should almost always be one of the first things burned down by attackers.

Cannons and Mortars were pretty nasty, but I think fair, in the sense that they were easily targetable from below.  I could run up under them and unload my ranged attacks and slowly whittle them away.  I don't think the mortars could get angles on me, but the cannon might have... which was a bit painful but seriously, my bad for running up UNDER the cannon and trying to tear it down.

How was the range on either one?  I thought the mortars were suppose to have long range, almost trebuchet range?  However I didn't get a really close look but rather was on the receiving end.

For all three, keep them as is.  They are fair.

#6 Robotsnails

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:49 AM

View PostAzylynneN, on 09 May 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

The oil was done right...it could wreak havoc as it should and should almost always be one of the first things burned down by attackers.

Cannons and Mortars were pretty nasty, but I think fair, in the sense that they were easily targetable from below.  I could run up under them and unload my ranged attacks and slowly whittle them away.  I don't think the mortars could get angles on me, but the cannon might have... which was a bit painful but seriously, my bad for running up UNDER the cannon and trying to tear it down.

How was the range on either one?  I thought the mortars were suppose to have long range, almost trebuchet range?  However I didn't get a really close look but rather was on the receiving end.

For all three, keep them as is.  They are fair.
The mortar's range was about the same if not slighty further but im not sure.
From ogrewatch's tower's view (in the middle of it) i could reach a little clearing or hil behind the big gate to the ogre encampment on maximum range.
but yeah, single mortar can be overwhelmed by trebuchets positioned on extreme sides of the angle of the mortar, but that didn't happent, i could take out siege constructions easely though since they built it on my firing view and range

#7 Havok

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:36 AM

Burning pot of oil was very strong but also very weak in defense, allowing attacking groups to easily destroy it if they focused it and worked together, overall very well balanced.

Mortars felt a little strong for the little requirement for them, especially since they had very good range making it much harder than the oil to destroy. Think they need to be a little more difficult to obtain, and possibly have the damage lowered a bit.

Same criticism for the cannons. These were easily targeted by attackers, but did massive damage. As far as I am concerned, this is the right level of balance that mortars need to achieve. They do significant damage but are very easy to be destroyed. Mortars should do less damage since they are more easy to defend than cannons.

#8 AzylynneN

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:09 AM

View PostRobotsnails, on 09 May 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

The mortar's range was about the same if not slighty further but im not sure.
From ogrewatch's tower's view (in the middle of it) i could reach a little clearing or hil behind the big gate to the ogre encampment on maximum range.
but yeah, single mortar can be overwhelmed by trebuchets positioned on extreme sides of the angle of the mortar, but that didn't happent, i could take out siege constructions easely though since they built it on my firing view and range

Thanks Robotsnails...!  I'll check it out on the map and see how it compares to my trials with the treb.

Hmm, anyone know how the Engineer elite Mortar skill worked?  Was it a "free" mortar or did it have to be built up with supply?  They can spawn one every 120 seconds?  Or did I read that wrong...?  So if an Engineer spawned one, did the other despawn?

#9 On_Slaught

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:55 AM

Engy mortar is free but has very short range.

#10 FoxBat

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:27 AM

Engie mortar also does about the damage you'd expect of a player skill rather than a siege weapon.

When players have more levels and money, you can bet catapults and trebs will come out to destroy those cannons/mortars.

#11 Bennyandthejets

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:28 AM

I feel the siege weapons are in a really great place atm.  I played Warhammer Online and the siege weapons were absolutely worthless...

Not only did they cost a great deal, but hardly did any damage.  Most of the time you could just stand in the blast radius's & soak up the damage.  I am sooo relieved to see A-Net recognized this & made them devastating.  Their sole purpose is to destroy zergs & enemy siege weapons.  They do a excellent job at both.

#12 AzylynneN

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:13 PM

View PostOn_Slaught, on 09 May 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Engy mortar is free but has very short range.

Thanks!  This makes sense...


View PostBennyandthejets, on 09 May 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

I feel the siege weapons are in a really great place atm.  I played Warhammer Online and the siege weapons were absolutely worthless...

Not only did they cost a great deal, but hardly did any damage.  Most of the time you could just stand in the blast radius's & soak up the damage.  I am sooo relieved to see A-Net recognized this & made them devastating.  Their sole purpose is to destroy zergs & enemy siege weapons.  They do a excellent job at both.

Totally agreed!  Minus the oil and ram... just about everything else was.... worthless.  Exactly... hence why I'm glad in GW2 these weapons are SO devastating.

#13 Flammable

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:13 PM

The Burning pot of oil was a pain... On one of our first assaults of the gate no one noticed it and quite a lot of people got fried until someone yelled take out the pot of oil!!!
Although some of us had a bit of an issue targeting the pot once we decided to take it out... Just couldn't seem to click on it...
Anyone else have this problem?

#14 Freelancer

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:47 PM

The oil had a lot of issues, hopefully soon fixed.

Ballista were by far the most important siege weapon for offense and defense. 20 supply for something that powerful is a no-brainer.

Catapults were worthless, whenever we needed a catapult, we'd setup a trebuchet, but we had resources to do whatever we wanted.

Arrow carts were annoying, but then we figured out a 100% fool-proof way to circumvent them (even in mass).

Seige Golems were used for keeps many times, we strung them along with mesmer portals and they worked fine.
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#15 Robotsnails

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:29 PM

There is one thing i have yet to see and it's guild's siege weapons. I guess it's probably normal catapults again.

As for boiling oil pots, they could try to have the same resilience as walls as in you'll need a siege weapon to destroy the oil pot. Otherwise anyone can just destroy it from a distance no problem if there's no cannons.

By the way, did anyone knew how much damage a ballistia did to a siege weapon?

#16 Freelancer

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:13 PM

View PostRobotsnails, on 09 May 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

There is one thing i have yet to see and it's guild's siege weapons. I guess it's probably normal catapults again.

As for boiling oil pots, they could try to have the same resilience as walls as in you'll need a siege weapon to destroy the oil pot. Otherwise anyone can just destroy it from a distance no problem if there's no cannons.

By the way, did anyone knew how much damage a ballistia did to a siege weapon?

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#17 Bunzaga

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:26 AM

From my experience:

Arrow Carts were totally unbalanced.  You can say I am crying if you want, but the fact is, they totally broke the WvW experience.

I liked the mechanics of the Siege Ram.  It seemed like just the right amount of damage, recharge timer, etc.  I also think that was a nice touch, to add a PBAOE fire blast, to help protect the user from melee ranged damage.

The Trebuchet was cool, I missed having a ground target indicator with it, but I enjoyed the mechanics of how pressing down the key longer would shoot it farther.  It was kind of interesting switching users, you would have to tell them, "press it until just under 1/2 and then release".

The Catapult seemed a bit... un-needed.  You would place a catapult, and then a few seconds later it would be destroyed with arrow carts.  They also didn't to nearly as much damage against doors as the ram, but I never tried them on walls to see if that was viable.  Also, walls can be upgraded to an almost 'impenetrable' state, making them less viable than a Trebuchet.

I didn't really like the mortars, maybe it is the camera view, or the long minimum distance... not sure, I just didn't like them.

Cannons seemed good too.  They hit like a truck, but they were more bearable than the arrow carts.  There were several times I got blasted by a cannon out of nowhere, it reminded me of a 'sniper' style weapon. :D  You would be walking along, and suddenly get blasted, and your health would drop to 1/2, then everyone would yell out 'cannon!'  Then the search would begin for the location of the cannon.

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Offensive thoughts:
Rams do 8k damage to doors, use them if there is no pot of oil or arrow carts.  If there is an oil pot, kill it before placing the ram.  If there are arrow carts, use a treb.  It is a good idea to use at least 2 siege weapons on one target.  Gold was more valuable than supply in the BWE.  If you plan to siege a Tower or Keep, taking a nearby supply camp to help fund your Siege weapons is a viable option.

Defensive thoughts:
Arrow carts are the God of defense, but have a backup plan, in case they use a treb.  Oil pots will only delay an attack.  Again, gold was more important than supply or influence for keep upgrades.  I am thinking this might change upon release, but in the BWE it was a major factor.

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Server communication and collaboration is vital.  Unless your guild has several hundred members, I would advise you to join an alliance.  If a structure is heavily guarded, don't be noobs and sit there and attack it for 4-6 hours on end.  Think of how many other Keeps, Towers, and Supply Camps you could take in that amount of time.  One battle, no matter how epic you think it is, doesn't win the War.

Edited by Bunzaga, 10 May 2012 - 12:27 AM.