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#31 HatoraDe

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:07 PM

View PostSekushu, on 15 May 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

But I digress, my tip on the video itself is to use Cluster Bombs instead of LDBs.  You can put up to 20 stacks of bleeding if you spam it 4 times.  It's not hard to do, you just need to know the trick.  The skill can easily be used in melee range by detonating the bomb in front of you right after you shoot it.  I call it the shotgun style and people are starting to pick up on it.  You can do massive damage if people are clunked up together.

Thanks! I'll try that next time, I need to get more used to using sBow so I'll be working that in. I felt like the bleed damage did do okay vs higher armor targets with the condition damage bonuses but its hard to really tell I'll have to play with it more.

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 15 May 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Not available :/

awwww says its only unavailable in germany :(

#32 LethalConcept

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:33 PM

Good vid, it was pleasant to watch it

tho one thing is, i can see from the vid you are in the habit of "Spamming the button" because of initiative, you are just continously mashing that one button, and because of the latency or the servers or input delay, because the skill is about 0.5 seconds late you mash it more, meaning you are queing but you attacks and effectively wasting some (seen by some LDB and Heartseaker into nothing spam)

its a hard habit to get out of, but once you find pressing the button once, and seeing the end result before you start initiating another skill, you manage your initiative quite better this way

#33 Sekushu

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostHatoraDe, on 15 May 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Thanks! I'll try that next time, I need to get more used to using sBow so I'll be working that in. I felt like the bleed damage did do okay vs higher armor targets with the condition damage bonuses but its hard to really tell I'll have to play with it more.

You need a lot of gear supports for the condition damage build for the Thief, otherwise the dps is sub par to the common builds.  That's where the problem lies.  There's no amulet that provides condition damage, toughness, and vitality at the same time.  Without the combined survivability of toughness and vitality the thief is quite squishy.  I think the only viable amulet for the thief is the power, toughness, vitality one; so condition damage should only be secondary to your primary dps.  That is entirely opinionated though.  I think only you know best about your capabilities.

You should definitely try utilizing the Shortbow more.  Stacking 20 bleeds sounds like a boast but trust me, you can do that more than 10 times a game.  I don't boast.

#34 Monkeyboy

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:09 PM

can you post the build please, I can tell your doing condition damage but your basic attacks seem fairly weak and i cant realy see what you speced into for that to happen.

Maybe its because you didnt go crit strikes and your critical damage isnt too much higher than normal damage? but even so 1.4k heart seekers against that ranger seems a bit low. Then only 2.2k on crit... My basic attacks could crit for 1.8k - 2.1k...

build was something like this.

Edited by Monkeyboy, 15 May 2012 - 07:30 PM.


#35 HatoraDe

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostLethalConcept, on 15 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Good vid, it was pleasant to watch it

tho one thing is, i can see from the vid you are in the habit of "Spamming the button" because of initiative, you are just continously mashing that one button, and because of the latency or the servers or input delay, because the skill is about 0.5 seconds late you mash it more, meaning you are queing but you attacks and effectively wasting some (seen by some LDB and Heartseaker into nothing spam)

its a hard habit to get out of, but once you find pressing the button once, and seeing the end result before you start initiating another skill, you manage your initiative quite better this way
Thanks! I noticed this too, I've been an RTS player mostly so I have a bad habit of spamming buttons to begin with, and I definitely spam more when the ability doesn't react instantly, certainly something I'll have to work on fixing.

View PostSekushu, on 15 May 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

You should definitely try utilizing the Shortbow more.  Stacking 20 bleeds sounds like a boast but trust me, you can do that more than 10 times a game.  I don't boast.

Oh, I totally believe you I've seen WvW videos of thieves putting out strong damage with cluster bomb, its just an issue of me getting comfortable using it which I'll have to.

View PostMonkeyboy, on 15 May 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

can you post the build please, I can tell your doing condition damage but your basic attacks seem fairly weak and i cant realy see what you speced into for that to happen.

Maybe its because you didnt go crit strikes and your critical damage isnt too much higher than normal damage? but even so 1.4k heart seekers against that ranger seems a bit low. Then only 2.2k on crit... My basic attacks could crit for 1.8k - 2.1k...

build was something like this.

This is the build I used. I prioritized condition damage on my gear while picking up some power where I could, so that's likely why my normal damage wasn't too high. Eventually I switched out some sigils on my daggers for the 100% crit and 30% extra damage on weapon swap and worked in some more power and I was able to get 3-4k crits more regularly, still nothing amazing but enough to finish off a low target hopefully.

#36 Lokheit

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:33 PM

Considering the pace they were killing your team (vaya masacre! O.o) you did a more than excellent work keeping yourself alive for the entire fight!

You did good use of Dodge on fight, consider using Power of Inertia to gain Might as your damage output wasn't great and 2 stacks of Might help a lot with that.

If you're for too long on a fight, it's better to quit it and go capture points (just fart some caltrops in your opponent face and run). Capturing points is better than killing opponents, both for your team score, and for your personal score (each kill grants 5 points, capturing a point gives 15 plus 10 if the point was owned by your enemy). Unlike "arena" style PVP games, here you win by taking every base for your team, killing is something secondary to keep opponents from capturing.

PS: About WMM, I used it for the Thief Lord video I posted in other thread and you can put it on 1080p on youtube. What version of WMM are you using? Mine is the Windows Live version.

#37 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:44 PM

View PostLokheit, on 15 May 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Considering the pace they were killing your team (vaya masacre! O.o) you did a more than excellent work keeping yourself alive for the entire fight!

You did good use of Dodge on fight, consider using Power of Inertia to gain Might as your damage output wasn't great and 2 stacks of Might help a lot with that.

If you're for too long on a fight, it's better to quit it and go capture points (just fart some caltrops in your opponent face and run). Capturing points is better than killing opponents, both for your team score, and for your personal score (each kill grants 5 points, capturing a point gives 15 plus 10 if the point was owned by your enemy). Unlike "arena" style PVP games, here you win by taking every base for your team, killing is something secondary to keep opponents from capturing.

PS: About WMM, I used it for the Thief Lord video I posted in other thread and you can put it on 1080p on youtube. What version of WMM are you using? Mine is the Windows Live version.

Yeah the Thief specced for survivality is definitely my preferred playstile, I love it!.

Hmm you know I might try what you said for my build on the next BWE to see if I can kill a little more, thank you for the advice!
I know I would better have fled in the end, but as I was recording I went for the fights most of time. My teammates may have got a but angry haha :P. Next Beta time I will go for the points I promise!

I use WMM 2.6. Maybe I have to use the Live version then?

Edited by Arngrim Einheri, 15 May 2012 - 07:45 PM.


#38 Monkeyboy

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 08:11 PM

Random info I found from testing.

Using +damage% traits do nothing for condition damage, also getting more than 97 condition damage per tick (Con+pwr+vit amulet) wasted a lot in other areas.

Its good to use the Con+pwr+vit amulet because the boost in condition damage is almost 50 per tick.
But then went with 2 +5% crit chance sigils on my daggers and took runes of the eagle on the armour. (about 38% crit not including bonuses from flanking). Also +crit damage % on accessories.

If you go pure crit though the damage drops by 2/5, more than I expected. And I cant really see how crit procs can ever even this out.

The best way seemed to be balance. Not only does it do good damage + condition damage, but it opens up all of your abilities instead of making useless ones.

You can bleed high armour targets and do normal damage to the others. Bleeds for 97 damage and heartseekers critting for upwards of 5k of the squishier of targets.

Edited by Monkeyboy, 15 May 2012 - 08:19 PM.


#39 Lokheit

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:36 AM

Lol on that second video it's like if you went back in time after that post and start capturing points :P Close match, and you can see that most times the team getting points was the team taking bases instead of the team that appears on the right side killing people :)

#40 Lokheit

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:40 AM

View PostHatoraDe, on 15 May 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:



awwww says its only unavailable in germany :(

It seems that Germany is very strict with music copyright, the video I made is unavailable in Germany (and Japan) too.

#41 Anthraxloll

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:32 AM

Hey guys made this short vid of double pistol it was only in a 2 hour span so not the greatest clips and a bit laggy. Hope you guys enjoy and welcome feed back.


#42 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:35 AM

WoW, that P/P damage was sick.

#43 Jaehan

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

View PostAnthraxloll, on 16 May 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

Hey guys made this short vid of double pistol it was only in a 2 hour span so not the greatest clips and a bit laggy. Hope you guys enjoy and welcome feed back.


View PostArngrim Einheri, on 16 May 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

WoW, that P/P damage was sick.

That's what I meant from your video - the damage from Unload is not to be underestimated.

Also, great video, br0heim.

I believe during the initial few battles I saw Leeching Venoms go off - a quick 385 heal when you hit with a venom. Good, solid trait.

The one thing that I saw that I didn't quite agree with, as far as your skill bar is concerned, was Shadowstep - it's a handy trait, but I think Roll for Initiative might've been a much better alternative.

Hide in Shadows is a solid healing skill, though Unload + Signet of Malice has great Synergy. With 10 points in Shadow Arts for Leeching Venom, your healing from Signet of Malice would have been increased over the normal amount, as well.

Although I am curious - what was your power / crit rate in that video? Seemed to be around 2.1k power and 20-30% Crit rate? It was hard to judge - the initial fights, I saw Unload crit quite a few times, but later on, only semi-infrequently.

Just my personal opinion, but Body Shot is a waste of initiative - vulnerability simply doesn't do enough reduction in defense to justify using it. On the contrast, using Vital Shot applies a bleed and costs no initiative - which is exceedingly useful.

From your Initiative, it looks like you didn't put points into the Trickery line ( or if you did, you put 5-10 ) -- out of curiosity, why not go up to 25, for the +3 Initiative and +30% Damage ( Lead Attacks )?

PS -- nice job surviving the insta-gib Warriors. I saw a TON of them in your video. They're ridiculously obvious and fail so hard. If you can survive that initial burst ( which you did numerous times ) they're pretty much worthless for the interim.

Edited by Jaehan, 16 May 2012 - 11:12 AM.


#44 n1ght

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:31 PM

View PostLokheit, on 16 May 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

It seems that Germany is very strict with music copyright, the video I made is unavailable in Germany (and Japan) too.

It's a huge pain in the ass here, I have to watch every second vid via proxy :qq:

#45 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:05 PM

New videos available :)

#46 Anthraxloll

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:06 PM

View PostArngrim Einheri, on 16 May 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

WoW, that P/P damage was sick.
Yea I like double p/p or double daggers so far.

View PostJaehan, on 16 May 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

That's what I meant from your video - the damage from Unload is not to be underestimated.

Also, great video, br0heim.

I believe during the initial few battles I saw Leeching Venoms go off - a quick 385 heal when you hit with a venom. Good, solid trait.

The one thing that I saw that I didn't quite agree with, as far as your skill bar is concerned, was Shadowstep - it's a handy trait, but I think Roll for Initiative might've been a much better alternative.

Hide in Shadows is a solid healing skill, though Unload + Signet of Malice has great Synergy. With 10 points in Shadow Arts for Leeching Venom, your healing from Signet of Malice would have been increased over the normal amount, as well.

Although I am curious - what was your power / crit rate in that video? Seemed to be around 2.1k power and 20-30% Crit rate? It was hard to judge - the initial fights, I saw Unload crit quite a few times, but later on, only semi-infrequently.

Just my personal opinion, but Body Shot is a waste of initiative - vulnerability simply doesn't do enough reduction in defense to justify using it. On the contrast, using Vital Shot applies a bleed and costs no initiative - which is exceedingly useful.

From your Initiative, it looks like you didn't put points into the Trickery line ( or if you did, you put 5-10 ) -- out of curiosity, why not go up to 25, for the +3 Initiative and +30% Damage ( Lead Attacks )?

PS -- nice job surviving the insta-gib Warriors. I saw a TON of them in your video. They're ridiculously obvious and fail so hard. If you can survive that initial burst ( which you did numerous times ) they're pretty much worthless for the interim.
Thanks yes i did use the leach trait. I will have to look into the roll for Initiative i didnt have much time to play around with it. Yea first couple clips my crit was higher changed the sigils on the pistols. I will try not using body shot was my first day on a thief. No I didn't have points in trickery my build was http://www.gw2builds...0-2.9.5.10.5.11

#47 LethalConcept

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:18 PM

Solid gameplay, good use of dodge, thief utilities and such

Great video showing the strength of how strong venom builds can be

#48 Jaehan

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:37 PM

View PostAnthraxloll, on 16 May 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yea I like double p/p or double daggers so far.


Thanks yes i did use the leach trait. I will have to look into the roll for Initiative i didnt have much time to play around with it. Yea first couple clips my crit was higher changed the sigils on the pistols. I will try not using body shot was my first day on a thief. No I didn't have points in trickery my build was http://www.gw2builds...0-2.9.5.10.5.11

That's a pretty solid build. You worked it good in the video.

Also, off topic - what anime is that avatar from? It looks familiar and it's driving me nuts that I can't remember.

#49 Anthraxloll

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:43 PM

View PostJaehan, on 16 May 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

That's a pretty solid build. You worked it good in the video.

Also, off topic - what anime is that avatar from? It looks familiar and it's driving me nuts that I can't remember.
lol Fairy tale

#50 Jaehan

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:49 PM

View PostAnthraxloll, on 16 May 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

lol Fairy tale

That's who it is! Erza! Okay! :eek:

#51 Spark026

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:28 PM

Nice video! Good play! I tested the same thing with different traits.  Suggestions for you to try next time:

You know how to position and how to dodge.  Try the pure dmg amulet.  You don't need the health if your good at the former.

Signet of Malice is pretty godly with Unload. Will also make up for your lack of health.  Keep Shadowstep for the condition remover/escape.  Run a Rune of Malandru if you really want to make conditions an afterthought.  Edit: Dagger Storm is a full heal with Signet of Malice.

I'm guessing you went down the Power line because you were using venoms.  For the none venom builds, the 25pt Trickery trait is where its at.

Leeching Venoms is a total waste.  Over half the time venoms are applied at the beginning of fights when you're at full health.  For that matter, the whole Shadow Arts tree is a waste unless your hybridizing a P/P build with a BIG HIT D/D build(aka You need Hidden Theft)

#52 stefanplc

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:44 PM

pretty good video, liked it!

#53 n1ght

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:37 PM

We have too much different vid topics for the stress test :mellow:
So I'll dump mine here, it's also P/P and some shortbow action. Build is in the description.


#54 Geirstadalv

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:39 PM

Yeah I liked it too. Thanks for posting that. :) OP, may I ask what runes you were using?

Edited by Geirstadalv, 16 May 2012 - 07:40 PM.


#55 Anthraxloll

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:00 PM

View PostGeirstadalv, on 16 May 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Yeah I liked it too. Thanks for posting that. :) OP, may I ask what runes you were using?
Cant remeber the name but it was the condition dmg ones.

View Postn1ght, on 16 May 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

We have too much different vid topics for the stress test :mellow:
So I'll dump mine here, it's also P/P and some shortbow action. Build is in the description.

ummmm ok

#56 Geirstadalv

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:02 PM

View PostAnthraxloll, on 16 May 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Cant remeber the name but it was the condition dmg ones.

That would be Rune of the Adventurer? You had a decent amount of health to, was that because of the amulets you were using? Sry for all the questions but I'm curious. :)

#57 n1ght

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostAnthraxloll, on 16 May 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

ummmm ok

ummmm ok, like in get your own damn thread or like lets unite the pistol thiefs ? ;-)

#58 Anthraxloll

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostGeirstadalv, on 16 May 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

That would be Rune of the Adventurer? You had a decent amount of health to, was that because of the amulets you were using? Sry for all the questions but I'm curious. :)

Yes i didn't use the dmg  one didn't like the felling of running around with 12k hp. No worries questions are fine.

View Postn1ght, on 16 May 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

ummmm ok, like in get your own damn thread or like lets unite the pistol thiefs ? ;-)
LOL i don't care its cool with me no biggie. As long people ask questions we know who their talking to.

#59 NikaroTheSwift

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:01 PM

Hi guys!

I was finally able to upload my videos to youtube, these are whole matches (so not edited on the sections where i look cool), some mistakes and bad decisions here and there but i think they are entertaining matches.

The first 2 games were a bit shaky but then i got the hang of it, the videos are my first 7 pvp matches in the stress test, then my brother came home and i had to hop onto my pc which is worse than his and could not record anymore =/

I later bound the weapon swap to C, because i was hitting esc by mistake a lot

Here they are, i´d love some feedback :)













Game 6 has a pretty intense 1v1 against a ranger at 4:15

Thanks for watching :)

Edited by Nikaro, 17 May 2012 - 12:10 AM.


#60 Geirstadalv

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:19 PM

View PostJaehan, on 16 May 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

...
Hide in Shadows is a solid healing skill, though Unload + Signet of Malice has great Synergy. With 10 points in Shadow Arts for Leeching Venom, your healing from Signet of Malice would have been increased over the normal amount, as well.
...

Only one problem. No condition removal.




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