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Alternate Bleed Mechanic Option for sPVP

necro condition bleed

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#1 Pathos


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Posted 13 May 2012 - 04:36 AM

Full disclosure, I have an ulterior motive, but the question I have pertains to conditions and in particular to the Bleed condition. I figured if there are experts in condition mechanics, and the bleed mechanic, I'm bound to find some in the necromancer forum.

My question is this

If there was an alternate bleed condition (enabled by equipping a different set of glyphs) that allowed for a more supportive sPVP play style as described below, would you use it?

The modified support bleed mechanic would work as follows:

Damage would be higher than the normal bleed, but any target affected would have the option to stop using wpn or utility skills to bandage themselves (they would still be able to move). As long as they did so, they would take no damage from the bleed.

The idea being that you could create a more group oriented support build that would force enemy players to abandon attacking your team mates in order to bandage themselves.

How much more damage would it need to do in order for you to consider using it? I don't see a way to create a vote here, but if you could pick the one you think is most appropriate.
  • I wouldn't use this no matter how high the damage was, its not a good idea
  • The damage would need to be somewhat higher than a normal bleed
  • The damage would need to be significantly higher than a normal bleed
  • The damage would need to be overpoweringly higher than a normal bleed
  • I would use this as is with only a token increase in damage, but only in very niche situations.

#2 qweikeris


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Posted 13 May 2012 - 05:09 AM


#3 nurt


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Posted 13 May 2012 - 05:22 AM

Conceptually this is the exact same thing as confusion... Is this just a thinly veiled scheme to get necros to call for confusion buffs? :eek: Come on man..

Edited by nurt, 13 May 2012 - 05:29 AM.

#4 Pathos


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Posted 13 May 2012 - 06:06 AM


Yes it is in fact exactly that.

You misunderstand my purpose though, I dont want to do some sort of disguised attempt to call for buffs to confusion. It occurred to me in a post I made that no one in their right mind using bleeds would want a bleed that functioned like this. I wanted to confirm this and get some honest feedback from ppl that actually use bleeds as part of their primary damage source.

So considering you understand the mechanics quite well, (for both conditions) would you be willing to provide some insight?
NM, i see you posted in the thread) thanks for that, much appreciated.

Edited by Pathos, 13 May 2012 - 06:13 AM.

#5 nurt


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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:24 AM

Yeah I posted in the other thread, but I'll throw it here too: Stacking intensity for confusion doesn't really work and makes confusion and bleed functionally very similar.

To set the two apart I would make confusion stack duration instead of intensity, hit very hard, and not last long. It would also need to be fairly rare, meaning it would only come on a limited number of skills that tend to have fairly high cooldowns. It would be more like fear than bleed in terms of how common/easy to apply it is. You wouldn't be applying confusion often, but ignoring it when you do would be very punishing.

Edited by nurt, 13 May 2012 - 09:25 AM.

#6 Nyth


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Posted 13 May 2012 - 06:22 PM

Confusion, much like retaliation, needs some tweaking.

It's best to leave the changes to ANet as they're smart enough to realize it's not quite right, and creative enough to come up with a good solution.

There is also a problem with a point of view on the issue (same applies to retaliation to be frank):
Confusion and bleeds are totally different things. What I'm saying is, that we don't really know what kind of angle ANet is working from here. It could very well be that they (confusion and retaliation) are just minor boons/conditions, with small impacts.
Frankly I think that's a bit of a waste of a good idea, but that might be their angle.

Personally I'd like a bit more tactical finesse in this game, which includes situations where it's best not to attack or at least think about the attack.

Something along the lines of what nurt says is an option. Make it hit hard but more rare. Stacking in duration does make more sense with this format, but you don't want to lock someone down for more than 3 seconds.
You can build on various variations on this, it could be set damage (scales bad; not my preference) it could scale with an attribute. Or it could be similar to a spell reflect where the damage is a percentage of the damage done on you.

Other options include a single spell lockdown, where for example confusion puts the next skill on 1.5x to 2x the normal cooldown or even better makes it fizzle (do nothing but trigger cooldown). Adds some dimension as #1 skill won't be affected, whereas using a utility could cost you dearly; and with the second idea (fizzle) it would make confusion classes able to break combo's.

Edited by Nyth, 13 May 2012 - 06:23 PM.