18 replies to this topic

[Moorecore]

Simple question I want to know what you guys think are better and i would like you to list why. I am going to make a Warrior with either full shout or banner utilities and i would like to know what is considered better and why.

[urapeanut7]

I'm no expert but if i'd have to guess i'd say banners have less noticeable effects, but a longer duration and range. you can also spec banners for health regen.

Where as shouts have short but significant buffs with a semi long range. You can also spec shouts to heal which is about as close to a support class as a warrior can get.

I would say shouts if you want to heal(Take for great justice,Shake it off, and i will avenge you.), Banners if you just wanna give awesome buffs to a giant group of players in PVP.

Edited by urapeanut7, 14 May 2012 - 01:16 AM.

[Faelor]

I concur with urapeanut7 (which by the way; I am not a peanut).

Aside from the banner elite skill where it is essentially an area of effect battle rez, or whatever terminology you want to label it as, the banners were weaker. Shouts made made immediate difference, while banners were over time effects that didn't yield as much. Now, that can be debated but generally you want immediate results to get things done, and shouts do just that.

Buffing banners is definitely something that should, and probably is, being looked into.

[mutecow]

its not entirely useless ot inferior, its just far more difficult to use. shout's have a variety of effects and is flexible, banners are pretty much a 1 trick pony that either adds to survivability or dps.

shouts like FGJ adds 20% crit chance, if a banner  can add 5% crit for 45 sec thats actually pretty good in comparison. it could easily be balanced to provide superior sustained dps effects than shouts.

for spvp there is a good chance they are going to get focused down though.

Edited by mutecow, 14 May 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Athlonpv]

Is Battle Standard a banner that one seems very nice , you can do both instead of all shouts , banners does give you something extra when teaming up ....

[RageExpert]

i think Banners in W v W v W

and shouts in sPvP

[urapeanut7]

RageExpert, on 14 May 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

i think Banners in W v W v W

and shouts in sPvP

Same here. 3 banners buffing an entire army of players seems too useful to pass up for a WvWvW support build.

Shouts would also be better for dungeons
Where as banners would be better for large scale dynamic events imo

[stayBlind]

wish there was an elite shout O.o

[Brand]

I just posted this on the Suggestions forum in the GW2 website. I think this is an awesome idea for all warriors, especially shout warriors, and a huge shout out to the Paragon class of GW1 (If you think so too, please reply posting your approval of it)

https://forum-en.gui...n-Racial-Skills

[obliuraschi]

Moorecore, on 14 May 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

either full shout or banner utilities

you mean using 3 shout or using 3 banner (not counting the elite)?   the only situation i can think off where having all the utility skill as banner can be useful is in a more or less organized wvwv big scale combat...... you run around with a big group of allies and you wait to drop all the banner when you clash with another mass off player........ other than that... having more than one banner (not counting the elite) is only a pain..............

if we look only at the pve content of this game (dungeon, event, etc) i still think that one banner is more than enough to support the players around you (you just change banner based on who you have around) and if you still want to bring more support for the group you can add 2 shout (or one and use the last ability slot left for something that will make your life easier... be it more damage or more survivability or cc)


the real problem with banners in a pve situation is that ... well..... they are damn banners...... you usually end up having to choose to drop and ignore them during the fight or to go and move them around... resulting in a massive drop in your damage output or just be left there with 3 banners while the rest of the group is moving on to the next fight....



my personal preference when i go for a support spec i 2 shout (shake it off and for great justice) 1 banner with soldiers rune and a traited warhorn (with and axe if i go crit damage or a sword if i go condition damage/crit chance)

[Mootillay]

I'm going against the grain of the posters in this thread and saying that shouts are better in WvW where battles can be very mobile.  Yes, you might be at the same capture point for half an hour, but considering the range(600 for shouts, ~800 for banners with trait spec).. you'd have to move the banner to maximize the benefit whereas shouts move along with you.  Not to mention, you may choose to play WvW in such a way where you're fighting smaller battles and less populated areas--you do not have to follow the zerg.

Also, I think it should be said that(outside of healing shouts vs banner regen), the two are not mutually exclusive.  I bring SIO and FGJ along with a banner sporting regeneration.  In dungeons, foes can have a very large amount of health.  This results in long term battles that are pretty much static.  I tend to think banners are more suitable here, though I hesitate to bring a banner without the regeneration spec.

[Gervase]

I have used both extensively so I will give you a run down on pros and cons:

Banners: (Not including the elite one.)

Pros:

• Give a dual buff that last for about 5 seconds after it's been applied. Renews itself if you come close to the banner again.
  
• Can be spec to cover a larger area, give regeneration and deal damage when they are summoned.
  
• Can be picked up to grant swiftness.
  
• Their buffs are unique. In other words you can have 25 stacks of might and still get the +90 power the banner of power gives,
  
• They give two buffs per banner. +90 Power/Con Damage / +90 Pre./+10% Crit damage so on.
  
• They continue to apply their effects while they last.

Now for the negative side of banners:

• People can pick em up and steal em, very common as they want a source of swiftness.
  
• Useless if out of range.
  
• Can confuse the "F" key making you pick the banner instead of doing what you want.
  
• Got a casting time.
  
• Can only pick up one at the time making them rather useless for none melee or area oriented combat.
  
• Such a horrible cool down. Even when spec to lower it's cool down is still a bit higher than they should be.
  
• Don't know if this was fixed but other than the elite banner you couldn't use them under water.

Now for the shouts,

Pros:

• Instantly cast.
  
• Go where you go as you shout.
  
• Can be spec to heal.
  
• The heal is not limited in the amount of target's it can affect, contrary to most effects it can heal more than 5 people at once.
  
• Can remove conditions via rune sets. In the case of "shake it off" it will remove 2 conditions instead of one.
  
• Can provide powerful CC "Fear me", Buffs "For great justice", De-buffs "On my mark" Or become your best condition remover "Shake it off"
  
• Can really save your life if used as a secondary heal and bring heavy support to your group.
  
• Low cool down.

The cons:

• Limited buffs that won't bypass max stacks.
  
• No damage dealing abilities.
  
• Without healing spec, they make poor utilities as other utilities can do the same sometimes better.

[dawdler]

Gervase, on 06 November 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

Such a horrible cool down. Even when spec to lower it's cool down is still a bit higher than they should be.

Ignoring the horrendous BS, this isnt really a negative is it? The standards last longer than their cooldown. Also you can use them underwater. They are a better underwater weapon than the Warriors standard crap lol!

IMO its quite easy to nail down the difference between the two heal styles: A player based AoE on a primarily melee character doesnt synergize well with the gazillion ranged classes out there. I consider banners to be better in general PvE/WvW because of this. Banners are for passive support of the group behind you - as a "tank" you dont really need it that bad. Shouts are more an active manner of support that by design require players closely around you - preferably more Warriors with shouts.

Edited by dawdler, 06 November 2012 - 06:14 AM.

[Brand]

Research into the matter has shown that shouts are superior 100% of the time, unless you don't want to use all 3 shouts. But if you use a banner you will get less healing and chances are you will use shouts in the other 2 slots anyway sooooo

[TakumiUsui]

Shouts are far better than Banners. The only somewhat usefull Banner is the Banner of Discipline because of the 10% DMG, that is if your Pt has a high crit chance or you combine it with For Great Justice.
And you can't buff an entire army with your banners since the number of ppl receiving your buffs are also limited just as the AoE DMG.
And just using For Great Justice to give your Party +20% Crit Rate is better than any other banner.  

And the Regeneration being a Grandmaster Trait is rediculous... No other class needs a friggin Gmaster Trait to make 4 of their Utility skills actually a bit usefull... And since Regeneration stacks in Duration, it will be almost useless if you have a Healing Turret / Elementalist with you.

[Xunlai Agent]

I have always preferred shouts for their instant cast. I dislike have to target banners on the ground when I am chasing things with my greatsword. Furthermore I do not have to pick shouts up to move them to the next engagement. Banners are great in massive groups but outside of those scenarios I much prefer taking shouts with or without the traits affecting shouts.

[typographie]

Moorecore, on 14 May 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Simple question I want to know what you guys think are better and i would like you to list why. I am going to make a Warrior with either full shout or banner utilities and i would like to know what is considered better and why.

You don't ever actually have to "pick" and commit to one. If you go 30 points in Tactics, shout heals vs. banner heals is just a matter of freely swapping major traits and one utility skill, both of which can be done anytime out of combat. Hell, I switch between the two sometimes within the same dungeon if I know one or the other will have a distinct advantage in a particular situation.

Edited by typographie, 06 November 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[Enscheff]

I went with a Shout build mostly because burst healing stacks indefinitely. Pop all 3 Shouts and everyone is healed for 5k-6k health every 20 seconds, no matter what, instantly. From what I understand it is the only real burst healing in the game, so I decided to make sure I can bring that skillset to the table. I still run Knight's armor and Berserker weapons though becasue at the end of the day Warriors need to be able to churn out the DPS.

I play strictly PvE, and I don't want to worry about placing banners all over the place. I want to spend my time doing DPS and popping off groups heals as required. I will let other support classes worry about boons and extra condition removal.

[Krisa]

RageExpert, on 14 May 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

i think Banners in W v W v W

and shouts in sPvP

I agree..

Problem with banners least in like CS farming is you place them on the ground and ppl spaming F to loot for the events , will be and constantly be picking up the banners. So people get anoyyed and tend to say not nice things because they keep picking up your banners lol.

I like shouts but its a tough one . because if you think about it , shouts are boons , thus can be canceled / turned into conditions in spvp and wvw , while banners , aren't. (I could be wrong on this) So if you run into ppl with alot of boon removal then maybe banners would be better.