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Dervish in GW2

Dervish Idea Expansion

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#1 Tuari

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:38 AM

Ok, so I was brainstorming how Dervishes may be put into GW2 in the future (as I love their aesthetic of silent and devoted contemplation) and here's what I came up with.

Dervishes can wield:
swords, daggers, and axes, in either hand
Or staves or Greatswords in two.
The weapon combination this way is...

S/S, S/D, D/D, D/S, S/A, A/A, A/D, D/A, A/S
Or GS
Or Staff

11 combinations from right there

They do not switch weapons and instead have "Dances" or "forms" if you will, that switch the weapon skills like it would an elementalist.

"Dance Of The Sand"
Dodgy melee damage with attacks that hit in swift succession and hard.
Endurance Regen increased by 50% (one can be swift, yet sand is hardy)

"Dance Of The Wind"
Ranged dmg that buffets enemies and causes conditions. Primarily Chilling and bleeding them.
Conditions increase in intensity by 50%
"Dance Of The Sacred"
Primarily boons and other defensive measures. Somewhat akin to the guardian.
Boons applied are increased by 50% (in intensity or duration)

I know this is a brief decription however I figure that this would allow a certain flexibility while still making it a bit unique. Oh, and to make it more interesting. Similar to swapping and attuning, there is a cooldown involved, however, for the Dervish I have in mind, the cooldown is lowered by using the skills of the dance, kind of "acting out the dance" and going into the next movement. You can't just start and end in the same go.

I also figure, the special attribute for dervishes would lower this cooldown.

My interest in this Dervish isn't the act of teardowns, so much as it is in the aesthetic of a "whirling magic warrior"

Anyone think this sounds reasonable enough to implement? In an expansion for Elona anyway XD. Oh, and I figure lore-wise, with the fall of the sunspears and the leave of the gods, the knowledge of the dervish passed down has become one more akin to inner strength, rather than relying on the intervention or invocation of a diety.

#2 DoGofWaR

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:10 PM

View PostTuari, on 15 May 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

Oh, and I figure lore-wise, with the fall of the sunspears and the leave of the gods, the knowledge of the dervish passed down has become one more akin to inner strength, rather than relying on the intervention or invocation of a diety.
Then it wouldn't be a dervish..

#3 sonicwhip

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:40 PM

I'm really hoping for a reintroduction of the ritualist or the monk.

#4 Gilles VI

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:47 PM

I want a sandwichmancer!

Serious, we don't know if they will add any professions anymore, they stated on multiple occasions that they were happy with the current 8 professions because they all have a distinct, unique archtype. :)

#5 lolabunnie

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:49 PM

View Postsonicwhip, on 22 May 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

I'm really hoping for a reintroduction of the ritualist or the monk.
Guardian is the Monk / Paragon of GW2. Unless you're speaking in terms of aesthetics.

As for Dervish, I really enjoyed them in GW1. It'd be nice to see them for GW2, but yeah they'd probably have to re-do the prof completely. They looked so cool though. :[

#6 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:53 PM

Dervish without a scythe is no real dervish to me. So unless we get scythes too I don't want a dervish in GW2. But I generally would like to see dervishes in GW2.

#7 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:07 PM

Historically the "whirling dervish" used scimitar like weapons to more compliment their spinning dance. The scythe was not only historically inaccurate it is terribly non-functional for war. If you have ever scythed wheat or other grains you know the concave blade catches easily on dense targets and therefore stops the circling/dancing swing.

For the OP if they introduce a Dervish-like class I would expect only one-handed swords or daggers. This would be more in tune with the concept of whirling/changing dances rather than changing so many weapons. Look at the Ele and Eng for examples of low weapon count with high alternative choices ie. attunements, tool kits.

Could be an interesting Guardian/Thief type of concept with a little bit of earth/air ele thrown in. Town costumes could resemble gypsy with tambourines and dance/play skills.

#8 chuckles79

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:27 PM

I want the chronomancer idea they abadoned when they decided to make EotN an expansion rather than a separate campaign.

Elite skill makes you move and attack 66% faster...YES!

#9 Alaroxr

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:37 PM

Well... GW1 Dervishes are exclusive to the Human race due to them relying on the gods...

And... GW1 Dervishes are based upon the Scythe...

If you change these two things, it's not really a Dervish, and those are two things you can't have in GW2.

#10 Georgie

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:30 AM

View PostAlaroxr, on 22 May 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Well... GW1 Dervishes are exclusive to the Human race due to them relying on the gods...

And... GW1 Dervishes are based upon the Scythe...

If you change these two things, it's not really a Dervish, and those are two things you can't have in GW2.
Just like you couldn't have Scythes in Guild Wars OH WAIT

I don't expect any teams working on expansion content even remotely close to Elona to give up on the Dervish without at least tossing the idea around.  I don't expect them to get "ported," but I think something resembling them aesthetically is a strong possibility.

Related: I noticed what looked like a set of Dervish armor in the WvWvW staging area.
Dervish Armor?
Uploaded 23 May 2012 - 04:28


#11 eklis

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:32 PM

Outside of the question if it is really a Dervish, I think the mechanic is a bit too much like the attunements.
Maybe it's an idea to make all weapon sets chain like some weapon skills of other professions 1st skill but then that the entire skill bar switches to the next stage like the next move of the dance? This is a like the combat system of the chronicles of spellborn
(sadly it isn't online anymore).

Edited by eklis, 23 May 2012 - 01:32 PM.


#12 Tuari

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:34 PM

View PostAlaroxr, on 22 May 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Well... GW1 Dervishes are exclusive to the Human race due to them relying on the gods...

And... GW1 Dervishes are based upon the Scythe...

If you change these two things, it's not really a Dervish, and those are two things you can't have in GW2.

Point #1 is why I say that they should take to using inner strength as opposed to outer strength.

Point #2 As someone else has said, scythes are actually horrible combat weapons. I'm positive that in 200+ years, they'd figure out more efficient ways to fight.

And for it "not really being a dervish" I'm talking about a class "descended" from dervish forms and ideas. And I based my idea for their preference to dual weapons on what real-world "dervishes" historically used.

Aside, I'd like to omit the GS, but I think  sword, dagger, axe being able to be wielded in either hand is important, Along with staff for outright aoe attacks (heh, staves are far more effective than a scythe could ever be.)

View Posteklis, on 23 May 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Outside of the question if it is really a Dervish, I think the mechanic is a bit too much like the attunements.
Maybe it's an idea to make all weapon sets chain like some weapon skills of other professions 1st skill but then that the entire skill bar switches to the next stage like the next move of the dance? This is a like the combat system of the chronicles of spellborn

This looks like a good idea, and I like it, maybe the 3rd and 5th attack skills carry on to the next dance?

from dance 1. 3rd skill goes to dance 2, 5th skill, to 3
dance 2. 3rd skill to 1 5th skill to 3
dance 3. 3rd skill to 1 5th skill to 2

I'm a bit iffy on it, because it could get annoying if paired with my original idea of the dances being different types of combat (Melee dance, ranged dance, support and magic dance)
My thought to make it different from attunements is to make the dance cooldown recharge faster, or make them reactivate for selection based on the use of skills.

kind of like "building adrenaline" for the warrior's burst skills, but to switch dmg types. I'd call it "Momentum" for this class.

Also, this is just a matter of speculation and idea throwing. Let's not say whether or not the dervish will be in GW2, but How- How could they implement it?

#13 Silent The Legend

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:10 PM

You cant have a dervish because you dont have scythes and you dont have gods.
1) I found scythes a very cool but ridicolous weapon, more or less like the enormous hammer warriors wield, impossible to use if youre not a very big norn who trained for 10 years, the scythe is not exactly the favourite tool of warriors: its very slow and unprecise, and you may have not noticed that but a scythe is very heavy, and it requires a lot of training (not that I trained to become a dervish, just guessing). In GW2, you should be able to move while using skills, and while whirling with a scythe you cant, unless you fly. If you use it like the other profession in GW1 used the scythe, which is the way you use a scythe to scythe wheat, it gets quite ridicolous, because people would start calling that profession the farmer. Not to mention that some races like charrs or asura are quite ridicolous with a scythe.
2) Dervish completely relies on gods, which only humans have. If you pick a charr, you have no gods and woopsie. If you dont rely on the gods and you use "arcane and mystical powers" it becomes a guardian with light armor and a scythe.
Overall I prefer the Guardian.

#14 eklis

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:55 PM

View PostTuari, on 24 May 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

This looks like a good idea, and I like it, maybe the 3rd and 5th attack skills carry on to the next dance?

from dance 1. 3rd skill goes to dance 2, 5th skill, to 3
dance 2. 3rd skill to 1 5th skill to 3
dance 3. 3rd skill to 1 5th skill to 2

I'm a bit iffy on it, because it could get annoying if paired with my original idea of the dances being different types of combat (Melee dance, ranged dance, support and magic dance)
My thought to make it different from attunements is to make the dance cooldown recharge faster, or make them reactivate for selection based on the use of skills.

kind of like "building adrenaline" for the warrior's burst skills, but to switch dmg types. I'd call it "Momentum" for this class.

Also, this is just a matter of speculation and idea throwing. Let's not say whether or not the dervish will be in GW2, but How- How could they implement it?

Well I still think with the different dances for melee, support and so on it will be too much like the Elementalist even with the momentum which is a bit like warrior, so it won't be unique enough for a new profession.

But since this is brainstorming in an attempt to make an idea that will work let me expand my idea so it will be a bit better.

Instead of letting each weapon set have melee, ranged and support dances let's give each weapon one of them. With the amount of weapons you have selected it still will be a lot of choice. I like your idea of having a few skills activate it but I would suggest skill 2 and 4 because else new players might be surprised with their skill bar suddenly changing after playing for a while. A way that the change of the phase of the dance could effect the skill bar would be that it consists of 2 skill bars one for the main hand weapon the other for the off hand, this way people can still customize it in a way of switching between different roles. 2 handed weapons will just have 2 different sets of course. The momentum mechanic that you mentioned could be used to recharge the switch skills much like you said it should work in your idea.

This would also make a nice addition to the Warrior and the Thief, the Warriors mechanic depends on his main hand weapon, 1 small mechanic of the Thief depends on his combination of main and off hand and this way the Dervish will focus on the off hand.

To integrate more of the old Dervish play style the main hand set could have more of an enchantment style that benefits the off hand set for example:
*The Dervish uses a dual sword set, the main hand gives might with one skill, then he goes to the offhand set were he has skills that have skills that do something extra if the user has the might boon and then removes the might boon''
This would of course need to be balanced about several combinations or else everybody would need to run 2 of the same sort of weapons as set.

I hope that my opinion will help evolve the idea of how the Dervish play style with part of the aesthetics of the Dervish, could be introduced in guild wars 2.

#15 DoGofWaR

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:58 AM

View PostTuari, on 24 May 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Point #1 is why I say that they should take to using inner strength as opposed to outer strength.
Then it'd have literally nothing in common with a dervish. The whole point is that their source of power is the Gods, much like with monks; although the latter is in a more benevolent capacity. What you want is basically a jedi.

#16 riken

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 03:26 AM

I hope they add a dervish profession in the next expansion of gw2.
it would be nice to see. its my favorite class in gw1.

#17 Tuari

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:31 PM

View PostDoGofWaR, on 25 May 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Then it'd have literally nothing in common with a dervish. The whole point is that their source of power is the Gods, much like with monks; although the latter is in a more benevolent capacity. What you want is basically a jedi.
Straight from Guildwiki.

"Dervishes are scythe-wielding holy warriors who can attack multiple enemies at once. The Dervish has combat-related Enchantments, some inherent healing, and protection abilities. Their greatest power, however, is to evoke the power of the gods.
The tradition of the Dervish is unique to Elona and traces back to the Shattered Dynasty Era when wandering ascetics sought to bring comfort to a land engulfed in civil war. Soon the traditional traveler's staff was replaced by a scythe, a humble weapon, but deadly in skilled hands. The fighting techniques of the Dervish are often stunning to behold, as they make use of whirling moves that summon the power of wind and earth. A true Dervish, however, is always the calm and confident eye of the storm.
The Dervish's attire is a testament to the dual nature of the Dervish as both priest and warrior. Followers of this profession wear a robe to show their faith in the divine, bracers to demonstrate their prowess in combat, and a hood to mark their humility before the gods. This garb provides limited armor, but the Dervish is shielded in battle by their agility and by the Enchantments that they cast upon themselves. These Enchantments make them resistant to injury, allow them to turn aside the attacks of their foes, and lend elemental power to their attacks.
Because the broad sweep of a swinging scythe can strike multiple foes at once, the Dervish seeks the very heart of a battle, calmly and intently casting spells on themselves even while surrounded by foes, then suddenly unleashing a flurry of devastating, whirling scythe attacks.
Among the Dervish's most precious secrets is that of transformation. The Dervish, when roused, may channel divine powers and change their form temporarily to become the physical embodiment of a god.
There is no established church or school for Dervishes in Elona. Instead, a master passes down their secrets and philosophies to a single pupil at a time. Even after that pupil has set out into the world to follow their own path, it may be some years before a master takes a new pupil."

Let's say. A faction with Dervishes hide from joko in Elona. Let's say, when the sea opens up, they flee to Tyria as Joko's closed in on them. Over the 250 year lapse and further abandonment of the gods, they've grown to rely more on the faith they have in themselves.
Their arts focus more on the earth and wind, sand and dust, and whatever weapons they can manage to find.

Anyway. Like I said before, this isn't about whether or not they will be in gw2, but if they are, how would they be implemented.

I'm not too sure on the focus on offhand weapon.. but I thought combining something akin to the warrior and something akin to the elementalist, it would make them feel more like the mage-warriors that they are. I can't really see them weapon-swapping, so I thought the dances would be interesting.But I think if the enchantment teardown should return it would need to once more be something unique to them for teardown, and not a regular boon. Similar to the Guardian's Virtues. Maybe the dances come with their own buff and the 5th skill in their weapon-bar consumes it? basically, it would consume the momentum for that dance (similar to a burst skill) but the consequence is that you need to rebuild momentum before the buff comes back, and you're allowed to switch dances?
I'm thinking...
Skills 1-2 are mainhand, skills 3-4 are offhand, and skill 5 is based on the dance+ weapon combination. So with their weapon combinations being so wide in variety (and their ability to switch melee/ranged/support) it wold provide variety, a waiting period before their buff comes back and basically make it a little more risk vs reward.

I'm kind of iffy on this idea even.. almost feel like it starts to get a bit too complex... buut yeah.
Example

Dance of Sand-
skills 1 through 4 build momentum, as momentum builds their class specific buff gains power.
You can either switch dances and keep momentum
Or blow it all on the 5th skill. and build more momentum to be able to switch.

Actually, when it's put like this, I think it might be pretty rightous

#18 True_Galgus

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:43 AM

This definitely needs some good brainstorming, but it could be cool to see a mystic dance class where the focus is actually on the dance.

I don't know what the lore behind it would be, but the game-play should probably have a heavy focus on movement styles changing.

(Maybe one dance has knockdown, but less mobility- and one has high mobility and spike damage?)

#19 Soulblazer87

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:13 PM

Personally, I loved the Dervish class, even without the scythes.

A profession that cuts off its own boons sounds very contradictory, but they actually made it work. I wonder how it would work this turn around, however, considering how many dozens of ways there are to gain boons.

Maybe a special kind of boon, like Invulnerable or Distortion?

Also, they would look very good using swords, since they are fast and very dangerous. Same thing for Greatsword for some heavy-duty damaging.

It would be a great class to see come up in an expansion or update, but I hope that doesn't happen for some time now; we need GW2 out first! Then we get more fun stuff, right?

#20 MetalBoot

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:32 PM

As many have said Dervish draw power from the gods, so big gap in the lore since the gods left humanity and no other race can be a Dervish.

"Dervishes are scythe-wielding holy warriors who can attack multiple enemies at once. The Dervish has combat-related Enchantments, some inherent healing, and protection abilities. Their greatest power, however, is to evoke the power of the gods."
^http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dervish

And really dont we have enough classes?

#21 98percentcute

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:47 PM

Well the necros get a scythe effect on their staffs, so if that's what you all want you can settle for that. There are plenty of melee in the game so I don't really have to much of a problem with them.

I'd be more interested in something like Ritualist. Paragons are kind of like a guardian in terms of a physical/support class, so don't see the need for them either (plus they were never very popular)

On the otherhand I don't want the game to be the same as it was in GW1 when MM and spirits just took care of 99% of the content.

#22 Silver

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:54 PM

I'd really like Dervishes back. Shame that it's not exactly plausible at this stage, but I hope they find some way of bringing them back in the future. They can easily think of something to justify their return.
If not, just give me back that scythe. :)

But honestly, the Chronomancer has more chance of returning to the game(which would also be very welcome :) )

Edited by Silver, 04 June 2012 - 11:55 PM.


#23 Soulblazer87

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:27 PM

View PostMetalBoot, on 04 June 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

As many have said Dervish draw power from the gods, so big gap in the lore since the gods left humanity and no other race can be a Dervish.

"Dervishes are scythe-wielding holy warriors who can attack multiple enemies at once. The Dervish has combat-related Enchantments, some inherent healing, and protection abilities. Their greatest power, however, is to evoke the power of the gods."
^http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dervish

And really dont we have enough classes?

Oh, come on. It's not that much of a leap; going from an external power source to an eternal one isn't all THAT much of a stretch, is it?

And it's not like we're saying they should stay as they were. But, damn, it's been two hundred and fifty years. I'd say that's plenty of time to evolve your fighting style and find another way to do the same thing.

Or, they could go 'shaman' and draw power from the elemental world around them.

Or, they could go 'gypsy' and use curses and other such 'wiccan' magics.

Or, they could take a leaf out of the Guardians' book and draw on the eldritch remants, the echoes, of the voices of the gods. Or on the animal totems. Or, well, there's tons of way to do it right, isn't there?

But you're right about enough classes; I'd rather see this in an expansion. Same thing with Chronomancer.

Ammendment: It could be simply renamed (say 'Watchers' or something like that) and stated to be descended from the 'noble and ancient order of the Dervishes'.

Edited by Soulblazer87, 07 June 2012 - 01:14 PM.