Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

Hide In Plain Sight trait

Ranger Traits Stealth Needs-To-Be-Worked-On

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 King Drakeskullnl

King Drakeskullnl

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 508 posts
  • Location:Multiple guilds, such as [Lore] [FUN] and [PUNK]
  • Guild Tag:[PUNK]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

So after playing the stress test up to 21 (due to BWE interupted by girlfriend) and taking Hide In Plain sight I noticed a few things:

1. Camouflage is exactly as the utility they planned to make. You have to stand still and stop attacking.
-- A problem with this is the auto attack when in range of a foe that you were attacking before camo kicked in under 25%
2. It doesn't kick in at 25%, rather at 10% and the cooldown is unknown
3. Due to the fact we're missing 3 utilities, we can base on this trait that camo will be in but needs work.

Overall due to the fact ArenaNet has yet to fully fix Camo, the effectiveness of this trait is... well practically 0, none, not existing whatsoever.

Example: I was fighting 2 Seperatists and I was holding pretty well untill I failed to see the third one comming in. I dropped under 10% as I dodged and I saw camo briefly, but the pet didn't go into camo, thus drawing aggro. And I immediatley started auto attacking after the dodge.

Your thoughts on this trait and minor speculation whether this utility will be in or why not.

#2 Sir Sparhawk

Sir Sparhawk

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1915 posts
  • Location:California
  • Guild Tag:[XTC]
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:27 AM

Ive seen it in pvp used pretty well. Ranger was getting pounded and he went into cammo and escaped. Its more of an escape ability.

#3 King Drakeskullnl

King Drakeskullnl

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 508 posts
  • Location:Multiple guilds, such as [Lore] [FUN] and [PUNK]
  • Guild Tag:[PUNK]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 15 May 2012 - 11:41 AM

The problem is that you dont stand still that much. So I think it should be changed into Stealth for 2 seconds with a 60 sec cooldown.
I mean even mesmer uses stealth...

#4 Sir Sparhawk

Sir Sparhawk

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1915 posts
  • Location:California
  • Guild Tag:[XTC]
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:03 PM

No I agree completely. I wont even use it tho, I feel my rangers build should have enough survivability and escape skills with lightning reflexes/swiftness/warhorn buff.

#5 velimirius

velimirius

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 777 posts
  • Location:Montenegro
  • Guild Tag:[DxM]

Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:32 PM

3 utilities that ranger is missing are "shouts" for pets, one guy posted them in another thread. thats what for is shout mastery in beastmaster line.

#6 Sir Sparhawk

Sir Sparhawk

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1915 posts
  • Location:California
  • Guild Tag:[XTC]
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 15 May 2012 - 01:18 PM

Nice avatar velimirius, is that a human or sylvari?

#7 Fatalplus

Fatalplus

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 875 posts

Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:14 PM

It seems like a broken trait atm.  Either Anet will remove it or they will fix camo - add it as a utility - and make the trait useful by association.

Also, speaking of useless traits - rangers have an Increase Shout Duration by 20% trait...

#8 Turtle Freak

Turtle Freak

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 468 posts
  • Server:Yak’s Bend

Posted 15 May 2012 - 09:09 PM

View Postvelimirius, on 15 May 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

3 utilities that ranger is missing are "shouts" for pets, one guy posted them in another thread. thats what for is shout mastery in beastmaster line.

View PostFatalplus, on 15 May 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Also, speaking of useless traits - rangers have an Increase Shout Duration by 20% trait...

Here you go:

View PostTurtle Freak, on 07 May 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:


Edited by Turtle Freak, 15 May 2012 - 09:10 PM.


#9 Fatalplus

Fatalplus

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 875 posts

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:10 PM

View PostTurtle Freak, on 15 May 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Here you go:

Whoa neet.  Have not seen these before.  I almost think they should be built right into the pet bar and not as seperate utilities.  At Least Guard and Sick-em.  As they are now, I don't see me ever using them unless they buff pet survivability a little (not you bears).

#10 Turtle Freak

Turtle Freak

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 468 posts
  • Server:Yak’s Bend

Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:48 AM

I would prefer they be normal pet commands too.  And for all we know, these could either be new skills or scrapped skills that have yet to be replaced.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...  That's disappointing about the camo trait.  I guess it still breaks targeting even if you immediately move after it triggers, but that isn't much use against other players.  Hopefully it at least lets you finish a complete dodge before the cloak wears off so you have some kind of chance at getting away.

Edited by Turtle Freak, 16 May 2012 - 12:52 AM.


#11 King Drakeskullnl

King Drakeskullnl

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 508 posts
  • Location:Multiple guilds, such as [Lore] [FUN] and [PUNK]
  • Guild Tag:[PUNK]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:24 AM

I recon it should be changed to a short Stealth duration really...

The whole point of the under 25% traits is that it gives you a few seconds where you can react to something so it will increases your chances of survival. And I am not getting that vibe of this trait.
As I said before, it could easily be done if you look at the overal available mechanics.

Both ranged and mellee based fights do not benefit from camo as you can still be hit by anything AoE which will break it (in contrast to stealth where you will be partially visible), you can't move to a safer spot... So in a fight with a lot going on this trait will be nullified just by standing there, which camo is designed for.
Also if I recall it correctly there also wasnt any icon for camo.



Perhaps a small poll under the ranger player:

Change Hide In Plain Sight so it:
Applies a short stealth duration
Will trigger under 25% AND after/during you dodge, so you will be camouflaged in the new spot.

#12 Thorgrum

Thorgrum

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 111 posts
  • Guild Tag:[ANTI]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:40 PM

I didn’t get a chance to test it but the fact that it triggers at 25% or less suggests it’s a survival skill. In PvP yes make it a stealth because you aren’t really dropping aggro the other player will know your location and since you are standing still can AOE nearby and damage you. For this maybe add a boon for damage immunity for “X” amount of seconds so if the opponent camps the spot you get some regen time or someone happens along to help you out. For PvE if it’s dropping aggro then as I read it its WAI.

#13 King Drakeskullnl

King Drakeskullnl

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 508 posts
  • Location:Multiple guilds, such as [Lore] [FUN] and [PUNK]
  • Guild Tag:[PUNK]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:52 AM

I'm sorry to reopen this since the last BWE, but damn it it has become a tier 3 trait.
Has anyone seen it in use / what do you expect has changed?

#14 Shoros

Shoros

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 619 posts
  • Location:Switzerland
  • Server:Kodash

Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:13 AM

I didn't use it as I really still don't see how this can be useful... :S

As a utility skill: yes (for both PvP and WvW) - but as a skill  triggered at 25%? :(

#15 Silinsar

Silinsar

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 202 posts

Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:33 PM

View PostKing Drakeskullnl, on 15 May 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

The problem is that you dont stand still that much. So I think it should be changed into Stealth for 2 seconds with a 60 sec cooldown.
I mean even mesmer uses stealth...

I tested it with the PvP dummies once (the Engineer one if I remember correctly), it procced properly and I could move within camo, it didn't end. I am quite sure about this, it may only be that my tired mind played a trick on me that moment ;)

#16 King Drakeskullnl

King Drakeskullnl

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 508 posts
  • Location:Multiple guilds, such as [Lore] [FUN] and [PUNK]
  • Guild Tag:[PUNK]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

View PostSilinsar, on 12 June 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I tested it with the PvP dummies once (the Engineer one if I remember correctly), it procced properly and I could move within camo, it didn't end. I am quite sure about this, it may only be that my tired mind played a trick on me that moment ;)

Was that this beta?

#17 Silinsar

Silinsar

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 202 posts

Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:03 AM

Yes. The only problem may be that you have an auto-attack flying at the enemy the moment it procs. However, I'm not sure if Pet attacks also remove it.

#18 coglin

coglin

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1402 posts
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[MoG]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 13 June 2012 - 06:23 PM

I like it if I am out number by decent player in which i know I will not win the 2v1 - 3v1 battle and need to run for it.

#19 Straegen

Straegen

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 169 posts

Posted 14 June 2012 - 04:23 PM

I like the stealth system suggested above. IMO when it procs it should stop all attacks including putting the pet in guard mode, give a couple seconds of attack grace period, cut movement speed in half and allow a player to move invisibly for a short duration. Any attack from a pet or player should instantly undo the ability.as well as allowing the player to cancel the camo and restore movement speed/pet mode.


I still think camo should be an active skill with the same mechanics I mentioned above.

#20 Thorgrum

Thorgrum

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 111 posts
  • Guild Tag:[ANTI]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostSilinsar, on 12 June 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I tested it with the PvP dummies once (the Engineer one if I remember correctly), it procced properly and I could move within camo, it didn't end. I am quite sure about this, it may only be that my tired mind played a trick on me that moment ;)

In reading about the skill it reads as an aggro/threat drop, more of an escape skill not a true hunting technique as most of us associate the term with. It supposed to produce the in game effect of "dissapear" along with your pet. You drop NPC aggro and PvP players cannot see you (shouldnt rescue you from AOE hits though).

It isnt really a stealth skill, we shouldnt be able to move while in camo as the trait "hide in plain site" dosent produce stealth. So im puzzled as to how you could move around. Im not saying you didnt it just shouldnt produce a "stealth state" based on what I have read. If it does that makes it a much more attractive trait to have, at 25% health if I can get into stealth I can move and get out of danger.

We need more test data on this.

#21 coglin

coglin

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1402 posts
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[MoG]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:44 PM

Previously, movement broke it, its possible its changed in BWE2. In my opinion it should produce a stealth effect. By that i mean, you should get 2-3 second of lost aggro and invisibility in which you can move. Attacking should break it, as well, you should take damage if you in an AoE and what not.

#22 Thorgrum

Thorgrum

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 111 posts
  • Guild Tag:[ANTI]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:36 PM

View Postcoglin, on 14 June 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Previously, movement broke it, its possible its changed in BWE2. In my opinion it should produce a stealth effect. By that i mean, you should get 2-3 second of lost aggro and invisibility in which you can move. Attacking should break it, as well, you should take damage if you in an AoE and what not.

Alternatively I wouldn’t mind seeing it as a trait to be applied at anytime, you can hide in camo and can’t move and can time your attacks. This is a logical application based on the association most of us place on the word. That said I don’t see how it would be applied to PvE as it’s too dynamic (why hide?) but in PvP this would be a very valuable skill to have defensively and in a scouting role.

#23 coglin

coglin

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1402 posts
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[MoG]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:40 PM

why hide? well in PvE the mob literally forgets about you. It just roams off as if it never aggroed you. Thus, I personally believe it was designed as an escape mechanism, at least due to the fact that it only activates at 25% health, it sre appears escape designed to me.

The down side is, in PvE, as soon as mobs are out of combat, they regen there health so if you use this or get a thief AoE stealth tossed on you, the mob starts regening.

#24 Tank

Tank

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 34 posts
  • Location:Kent
  • Guild Tag:[UK]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 23 June 2012 - 04:18 PM

I have not used Camo at all as I have not played a ranger for a decent amount of time but this is a skill I have been keeping a close eye on as it is one that could make me main a ranger. From the tool tip It states that it cannot be used in combat so IMO has very limited use.

What do you guys mean it procs at 25% fo you mean it becomes use able spell or simply mean it procs as in the normal term "proc" hope this makes sense :)

#25 mascott001

mascott001

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:40 AM

Okay, So it's been a while since this was updated quite a few stress tests and even a beta weekend since the last one, i was playing with the build generator and was really excited about this trait, however i know not how it works so i was curious if there have been any changes to it over the last 2 months

Does pet agro break stealth? or does pet also gain stealth?
does moving break stealth? can i even move?
will auto attack shut off? and if not does it break stealth


this trait can be amazing the new tooltip says it lasts for three full seconds but noting about what removes it or if one can move, so please can you post some info =] much appreciated




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users