Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* - - - - 2 votes

Guild Wars 2 - A Political, Economical and Warfare Sandbox?

Guild Wars Guilds Politics Economy Warfare Sandbox Alliance

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
7 replies to this topic

#1 Allaan

Allaan

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:31 AM

At first I made a post in an existing topic, however I later changed my mind and decided to create a completely new one. The inspiration for the layout of this thread comes from Darkademic’s Guild Wars 2 Endgame: You Actually Get to Eat the Carrot while the individual guild systems are very much so based off Politikon’s thread on Specialized Guilds in GW2. Finally, I take some info on how Influence works from Gamebreaker, because (DISCLAIMER ;) ) I have not had the chance to get myself immersed in the game just yet.

Introduction

In this thread I will talk about guilds in Guild Wars 2 and how I believe they will come to be managed in an environment where the only thing that is constant are the transfers from guild to guild. Specifically, I will talk about what past MMOs have accomplished with their economic and financial systems, the advantages and disadvantages of Guild Wars 2’s current economical and political systems as well as a possible simple landscape of the political environment within the game as it matures.

Everything in this thread is only my opinion and I definitely look forward to a discussion of the ideas presented below.

The Past of Guilds in MMOs

Before I saw the guild system in Guild Wars 2, the two games I was familiar with who incorporated both economics and guild-play as a significant part of their gameplay for anyone who wanted to truly get immersed in their world were Lineage 2 and EVE Online. On one hand Lineage 2’s economy moved through the use of bazaars – players had the ability to set private shops anywhere in the world which led to the creation of 2 major bazaars in two player- chosen trading centres of commerce – Giran and Oren – and three smaller ones in other large cities – Gludin, Dion and Aden. These bazaars, added to the guild levelling and alliance systems, along with the possibility for castle sieges and tax- setting of owned territories made for an incredible experience for anyone who got involved in the economical and political systems. However, in order for a guild or alliance to be good at what it did it had to go through hours of equipment grinding and countless upon countless hours of market observation which could only be done by running from player shop to player shop. Either way the name of the game was grind.

On the other hand there was EVE Online – a sandbox game which allowed players complete freedom in what they chose to be – whether pirates, politicians, villains, traders or anything else they chose to be. Similarly to Lineage 2 guilds were organised in alliances and players belonged to specific guilds in specific alliances. Unlike L2 the trading platform of EVE Online was much more in-line with what we can find on the real world asset trading markets – and in Guild Wars 2.

Where Guild Wars 2 breaks the status quo in MMO Politics and Economics?

In my opinion Guild Wars 2 is superior to both of these games in terms of its economy and politics for three reasons – two are things it does not do and one is something it does.

The first is that the game gets rid of the strict guild and alliance systems that have been part of all MMOs up to this point in time. This is the single largest advantage for guilds, because it allows each guild to focus on what its members are interested in doing most while allowing players (including the guild leader) to be part of other guilds which cater to different activities. I will get more into it as I get into the concept of a decentralised multi- guild management in GW2. As the developers have accentuated, it is no longer necessary for a player to feel regretful because he or she wants to join a different guild that is more focused on (for example) the WvW and leave behind his current guild which mainly dabs in the Economy or the structured PvP of Guild Wars 2.

Secondly, from what I have seen, the game offers a completely fluid trading system identical to that incorporated in the worldwide financial markets, albeit a simpler, easy- to- use one. The only thing I am looking forward to is Arenanet stating that the trading system will work by hashing demanded and supplied goods cross- server and perhaps even cross- continent in order to get endless nerdgasms :D (Althoguh, realistically, this is unlikely to happen)

Third – NO GRIND. I cannot describe to you how big an advantage it is for this game that it is grind minimal. In fact, I do not need to – I believe if you’ve reached this far in my post you have played enough MMOs to have grown tired of grinding for 10 years ahead of now. ;)

The Pitfall of the economy

I have not seen enough cash sinks in Guild Wars 2. We have the cash destruction coming from waypoints, players’ repair costs, the cash sink of purchasing various advantages for your guild (although most of those are based on influence), purchasing siege equipment and the food/drinks available in the game. Perhaps I am missing some cash destruction and exchange devices however I do not see significant potential for this key function which is necessary to keep the Guild Wars 2 economy at a low inflation.

How does this translate into Guild Management?

I believe Guild Wars 2 guilds should not be run as separate “instances” in the game, fighting over players, but rather as fluid, ever- changing, multiple divisions and interchangeable parts of a whole. Guilds have to form trust- based alliances in order to work towards the goals they are most interested in. For example, rather than having separate entities such as a crafting guild, Conquest PvP guild, elite PvE guild, dynamic event PvE guild and WvW guild, you would have a... wibbly wobbly mass with a decentralised focus of control which is essentially run by all the leaders working together (possible because even the leaders can move from guild to guild at will). Therefore, the guild system will most likely mature into the following separation of guilds:

Centralised Alliance – Run by a single very large guild, with 10-15 people at the top responsible for smaller guilds which specialise their influence points in specific parts of the gameplay and in which players move from guild to guild whenever they wish to gain the particular advantages of a given guild. These will most likely have tightly controlled entry requirements and rules. Perhaps this will be what becomes of the large guilds that are transferring from other games and attempt to keep the control of their players they are used to from the past. They would maybe have several divisions of 5-10 man guilds focused on structured PvP.

Decentralised Alliance – A combination of several guilds with the leaders working together to improve the alliance. They will still all be part of each guild, however instead of having a focus of power in one main guild all guilds will be working together to reach their own goals – a cooperation in the goal of fulfilling self- interests. In this example you can for example have a guild that is a Trader guild, focused on making the most of the market and working towards funding the alliance gold- wise, another guild focused on WvW only interested in involving players in the world vs world pvp, a third one interested in becoming the best in structured pvp, one interested in becoming the best at very complicated near- and end-game dynamic events and so on - whatever each leader wants to make of his guild, he or she can do it.

Freelancers – These are guilds that stand alone (perhaps a circle of IRL friends or friends from other MMOs) and which prefer to keep their tightly knit circle rather than aim to gain power in Guild Wars 2.

Final Points

ArenaNet have created a game in which guilds matter. Nonetheless, there are elements I would like to see in future updates of the game such as territorial guild wars over segments of the map as each alliance and guild believes it is best suited to lead its selected region in the fight against the dragons. I would like to see fluidity in alliance formation meaning guilds can freely enter and leave them as they choose. The political and economical system of Guild Wars 2 has the potential to be a part of the game that is a true sandbox.

Questions to make us all think

What do you think? Is this viable, what issues do you see with it, how can you deal with problems such as greediness and egocentricity on the side of leaders? How do you keep the power decentralised and encourage everyone to work together rather than fight for the best of the guild they started themselves, how do you make everyone BELIEVE in the alliance rather than simply seek personal (guild) gain and control out of it? What other types of guild and alliances will there be out there?

Will you support or be supported? Will you be big or small? Will you play for the greater good or will you betray in the political game of Guild Wars 2? There is no karma, you can be anything that you want, there are no rules and the only real judges of your Alliance are all the people on your server.

Edited by Allaan, 21 May 2012 - 02:06 AM.


#2 Trei

Trei

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2910 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:51 AM

View PostAllaan, on 21 May 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

Secondly, from what I have seen, the game offers a completely fluid trading system identical to that incorporated in the worldwide financial markets, albeit a simpler, easy- to- use one. The only thing I am looking forward to is Arenanet stating that the trading system will work by hashing demanded and supplied goods cross- server and perhaps even cross- continent in order to get endless nerdgasms :D (Althoguh, realistically, this is unlikely to happen)

ArenaNet have created a game in which guilds matter. Nonetheless, there are elements I would like to see in future updates of the game such as territorial guild wars over segments of the map as each alliance and guild believes it is best suited to lead its selected region in the fight against the dragons. I would like to see fluidity in alliance formation meaning guilds can freely enter and leave them as they choose. The political and economical system of Guild Wars 2 has the potential to be a part of the game that is a true sandbox.
I hope I am answering what you are actually asking, but the GW2 Trading Post is one single global market shared by all servers.

It seems rather unlikely as the main focus of player conflict in GW2 exists in the Mists; World vs World. What you are suggesting is conflict between guilds within each world.
Not exactly the direction the PvE game is meant to go, at least to me, let alone the PvP portion.

Its a theme-park world, not sandbox Ah, on second read I got what you are trying to say there.

Edited by Trei, 21 May 2012 - 01:58 AM.


#3 Allaan

Allaan

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:58 AM

What I mean to say is that while it is a theme-park world in terms of dynamic events and all of that, there is the potential in terms of these two factors ( economic and political) coupled with the way the guild system works for it to become a sandbox on the interaction-between-players level. As I suggested above, in terms of open world pvp guilds and alliances of guilds could be explained to believe that they are best suited to leading a part of the world in the fight against the dragons.

For example, you could have 25-30 sub-zones within the game that can be taken over. Upon controlling them players (or rather guilds) will have the right to control everything from tax levels to ... well, whatever the game developers choose to implement, as long as it remains focused on building towards defending or fighting against the dragons (and against other guilds because, after all, your guild is best suited to do the job).

I believe the GW2 gameplay and engine are very much so suited for this and it can definitely fit into the lore (Plus it fits with the name of the game! :D )

It is not so much an open world pvp system where you can gank players randomly, but rather wars between specific guilds due to their own choices, which adds another level of depth to the game.

Edited by Allaan, 21 May 2012 - 02:02 AM.


#4 Bleary

Bleary

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 150 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:34 AM

Well I like your ideas. When the official forums come out maybe post this over there and maybe it will inspire the devs to implement something like this.

#5 Trei

Trei

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2910 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:35 AM

See, one of the selling points for the PvE part of GW2 is that for once we would get to, we would want to, play with other players in the same world.

Not against them.

Edited by Trei, 21 May 2012 - 03:37 AM.


#6 Allaan

Allaan

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:29 AM

But you can, if you want to, and in almost all cases, play with other characters.

All I'm proposing is an added

"Unless you specifically choose to not do that with specific groups of players (in specific places?)."

A completely optional war for power, which does not directly affect players not interested in it.

This adds depth and longevity to the game. Yes, it's great that there is WvWvW and I will be enjoying that. Yes, I love the structured PvP and I will be playing that. For how long? 3-4-5-6 months? You could make the argument that Arenanet doesn't care if I stay or go, but I do. I want to stay and although I will be playing PvE it's not what made me prepurchase the game. It's the market, the guild system, the WvW and the structured PvP. I am going to guess that this will not be part of the game at launch, however I want to see this war for dominance in one of the first 2-3 large updates.

Every race thinks they are better than everyone else in some way- humans better at surviving, charr stonger than all as a whole, asura smarter than all, norn want to create their legends and be better than all on the individual level, don't know much about sylvari. This sets it up - there is always the greed elements, it's rather shallow to say "Everyone happily worked towards fighting the dragons unconditionally", when there is the potential for so much more by adding that little "but"

Edited by Allaan, 21 May 2012 - 10:31 AM.


#7 Celfydd

Celfydd

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 61 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:25 PM

View PostAllaan, on 21 May 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

All I'm proposing is an added ... completely optional war for power, which does not directly affect players not interested in it.

Every race thinks they are better than everyone else in some way- humans better at surviving, charr stonger than all as a whole, asura smarter than all, norn want to create their legends and be better than all on the individual level, don't know much about sylvari. This sets it up - there is always the greed elements, it's rather shallow to say "Everyone happily worked towards fighting the dragons unconditionally", when there is the potential for so much more by adding that little "but"

I love this idea, as it provides the basis for a whole covert world of intrigue and espionage. It could be enacted completely by roleplaying, but it would be nice if there were some supporting content as well in the form of little instances with clues and meaningful persistent decisions (unlike the personal story, which only has one outcome).

#8 asbasb

asbasb

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 985 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 02:19 PM

Any type of open world pvp(meaning pvp in the PvE world) in GW2 will create an atmosphere of hostility and competition that drags the cooperative and friendly side of GW2 down the shitter. That's why PvP and PvE are strictly separated game spaces. They even made the effort of creating a less competitive feeling WvW, so casual pvpers have a place to play without the usual hardcore pvper screaming at them for being a baddie.

IMO the most you can hope for, provided ANet's philosophy doesn't make a 180° turn, is a system that let's guilds put their name plate on towns like in GW1 faction, while fighting over them in a separate part of the world to not interfere with the cooperative spirit of PvE. I loved the strict separation of PvP and PvE in GW1 and love it even more in GW2.