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Should Racialskills still be weaker?

Race skill

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#1 Arghore

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:12 AM

A thread in the ranger section about the Norn Wurms spurred on a bit of a discussion about the racial skills, and seeing there were some valid points in that discussion i thought i'dd open it up to everybody...

1. See with racial skills no longer being a part of the sPvP skillset, there doesn't realy seem to be a reason for the racial skills to be weaker than any other skill. If these skills are indeed weaker, than why are they in the game? Sure flavor is nice, but if flavor is just an icon in the skill window what purpose does it have, i can see which 'race' i am fairly decently by just looking at my character...

2. Also, as various people noticed, the racial skills were actually fairly expensive to buy with skillpoints. Why would i want to spend a lot of skillpoints on a skill that is inherently weaker than anything I have on my character. 'Like' i would totally 'dig' racial skills as cheapish start out skills for the first 20lvl's or so, possibly with somewhat increasing skillpoint value. That would make it somewhat understandable that they are somewhat weaker than their profession equivilent. But seeing they are currently more expensive than most profession skills, while they are weaker, what's the use of them?

3. Some people argue that these skills are weaker so that a person doesn't have to choose a certain race to be a certain profession. A design flaw we see all to often in 'passive racial bonus'-designs. Well, i would argue that the design of these skills is in the hands of Anet, so by design they can make them any way they want to, avoiding these kinds of combo-enhancers. But, as racials are no longer part of sPvP, does that realy matter? There are only 3 utility skills, so the chances of an OP combo is fairly overrated if you'dd ask me...


Anyways, what do you guys/girls think? Are racial skills actually 'worth' a spot on a bar if they are merely a weaker version of some profession skill? especially in relation to their current cost in skillpoints? Or should they just be integrated in the normal skill balance, be equally strong in relation to profession skills, and with knowing this, should ANet 'just' be extra carefull not to create OP-multipliers or combo's by design?

#2 Killua

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:40 AM

I'll have to see when we see asura and sylvari skills, but so far the only racial skills worth it are: Human's Heal skill and their Hounds of Baltazar as well as the Charrzooka. 2 of the 3 are elite skills.

#3 TriggerSad

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:44 AM

I believe the reason why racial skills are more expensive is so that players have less incentive to getting them than their profession skills. I mean, I personal don't want to see racial to be on the same level as their professions cousins because it'd give "leet" players an excuse to make certain races (and to an extent race/profession combinations) neccesary to complete content. ArenaNet wants players to be on an equal footing, and since racial skills are flavor specific, they tend to lean towards certain mindsets.
I mean, humans have a racial skill that's a heal skill, but charr don't. If racial skills were just as good as profession skills, then that would mean that humans have a better advantage in that regards than the charr. Let's also not forget about the fact that the norn have four racial elite skills, when humans and charr only have two. It doesn't seem equal in the end.

#4 Geikamir

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 02:52 AM

I think if racial skills are going to be useless (power-wise) in comparison to skills they should be free or at least very cheap. I mean, besides the elites, they aren't even flashy. They serve almost no purpose currently.

#5 Shriketalon

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:36 AM

If they don't fit into the game balance, they shouldn't be implemented in that manner anyway.

A Racial Aesthetic would work just as well (changes the animation/graphics of a skill, but keeps the mechanics), and would let people be powerful AND cool at the same time.  No need to make a Bear Form if the Norn Warrior can turn into a bear while using Rampage.

#6 Protoavis

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 03:37 AM

View PostTriggerSad, on 23 May 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Let's also not forget about the fact that the norn have four racial elite skills, when humans and charr only have two. It doesn't seem equal in the end.

three

avatar of melandru, reaper of grenth, hounds of balthazar = human
charzooka, artillery, warband support = charr

also randomly if all heal skills are roughly equal, humans having access to four doesn't really put them at an advantage...since all heals are roughly equal.

#7 Trei

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:13 AM

They should just be free.

#8 Ardeni

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:45 AM

Yes, they should be weaker. If you made them as strong or stronger than other elite skills, you'd increase the amount of balancing required quite significantly especially since everybody couldn't access all of these skills. It would also be very likely that if the skills were stronger, this would lead to people picking the race for convenience (for example "The Sylvari have the awesome skill that makes your enemy unmovable for 30 secs. It is a must for every elementalist. All elementalists should be Sylvari."), which is clearly something that Arenanet did not want.

Even now the racial skills are worth a spot in the skill bar. They are most likely fun PvE skills, but at least I would still buy them as I guess that there are more than enough skill points in the game for you to purchase all skills.

#9 Dr Baxter

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:50 AM

They should definetly be weaker or the issues of people picking races would arise. However, I do agree they're not worth the skill point investment and should be either free or easily available to low level characters to use while they fill out their bars.

#10 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:57 AM

In my opinion, they should be powerful spells(but not as strong as elite skills) so they could stand out more. I've introduced a lot of people to GW2, and they've been really.. I would say "disappointed," by the fact that races can't really distinguish themselves other than appearance.

#11 Deuzerre

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:14 AM

I think that as they are only available in PvE and WvW, it should be totally fine to have them as more powerful, or at least equal to, regular spells of equivalent role.

Right now, Norn just feel like bigger humans as you won't bother for a long time to save up points to unlock the shapeshifting.

Most racial utility skills range from meh to outright useless (Hidden pistol?) and the ultimates just don't feel useful. Combined with the fact that they generally don't have good synergy with many classes, and you end up with "A side dish, that looks nice, there for the flavour. But as you've already had your fill with the rest of the meal, you don't feel like it. If it was an ice cream, maybe." to use a metaphorial way of expressing the issue.

The skills are also so unbalanced between each other (for the deity-dependant ones for example) that the original choices will be made really fast. I don't know many humans that would take anything else than Balthazar for example.

#12 Protoavis

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:16 AM

View PostDeuzerre, on 23 May 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

The skills are also so unbalanced between each other (for the deity-dependant ones for example) that the original choices will be made really fast. I don't know many humans that would take anything else than Balthazar for example.

They aren't dependant on that choice, all humans have access to all of them. The bio question is for the personal quest line between 20 - 30 not for which racial you have available.

#13 Sidhardha

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:30 AM

Races already make a difference. Racial skills work in WvW and that can give a specific advantage.

That said, i and majority of my guild will probably roll Asura, just because their model size is smaller (even with same hitbox). So races already matter.

In opposite, i would have loved to see races matter more - with more diversity and impact on gameplay. Instead of trying to reduce all races differences and make them for looks only, just make all of them useful in specific way.

#14 Mutou

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:55 AM

Yes, they need to be weaker or people will be funneled into particular races for the powerful elites.

#15 Imaginos

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:19 AM

View PostKillua, on 23 May 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

I'll have to see when we see asura and sylvari skills, but so far the only racial skills worth it are: Human's Heal skill and their Hounds of Baltazar as well as the Charrzooka. 2 of the 3 are elite skills.

That charrzuka is far better then most every other racial skill, it's just insanely good. The other racials need to be brought up in line with the charrzuka.

To answer the OP question. I don't feel that racial skills should be weaker then regular skills, however they should also be balanced better then they are and if they are going to stay weaker then the costs need to be lowered a fair bit. Also it kind of goes against what Anet said on Elites being just WOW (amazing!) skills if most of the Elite racials are just MEH and expensive to buy.

#16 dd790

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:35 AM

If the racial's need to be balanced then shouldn't they all do about the same thing but with a cool racial slant on them?
Basically IMO to make them balance they should be re-skins of each other influenced by each race

The Charr Artillery Barrage for example could be made available to all races but in different ways. I'll give examples that all work on the same area range, and do same damage just with different "skins".
Charr Artillery Barrage - This is the current elite that rains down explosive shells over an AoE that do damage to close foes
Human Archer Volley - Rains down explosive arrows in an AoE that do damage to close foes
Norn Air Strike - Rains down rocks over an AoE that do damage to close foes (could be dropped from eagles in the description)
Asura Mind Storm - Creates an AoE with pockets of exploding mana that do damage to close foes
Sylvari Grasping Roots - Roots burst from the ground in an AoE dealing damage to close foes

5 "different" racial skills that are all unique and fit the race, yet are balanced as they are basically the same.

Form skills could work too;
Norn Animal Form
Human Avatar of a God
Asura Golem Suit
Sylvari Tree Form (I'm picturing LotR Ents here)
Charr...not so sure here, maybe just Feral Fury or something that makes you look more like a scary beast for a while?

I know if this happened some people would complain racial skills are all the same just reskins but you can't have perfect balance AND different functionality it's one or the other.

edit: I know professions are different and balanced but some professions are better than others 1v1 to promote team play, but having races beat each other 1v1 is a bad idea.
If racials are very different and not balanced then Anet may well of killed the Holy Trinity but they have given birth to waiting hours for the right race instead or the right profession.

Edited by dd790, 23 May 2012 - 11:38 AM.


#17 Red_Falcon

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:55 AM

I think racials should be equal to class skills, else they will just be there for the looks and no one will really use them.

#18 Linfang

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:02 PM

Racial or not, the amount of points put into a skill should represent it's power.

#19 meeks

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:32 PM

I would have no problem with racials being much weaker if they did not have to be slotted into your normal skill bar.  If there was an 11th skill slot that could only hold a racial then you could pick up some flavor without feeling like you were gimping yourself.

#20 SirMoogie

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:20 PM

View PostLinfang, on 23 May 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Racial or not, the amount of points put into a skill should represent it's power.

I think all skills should cost the same, and be balanced to be useful. Not in every combination mind you, but I don't think that one should feel like a skill they unlocked should never be used.  

I understand Arena Net's perspective on racial skills, but I'm not so sure the majority of players are power gamers and will actively choose a race by class. This will especially be the case if on the character creation screen there is no indication of what the racial skills will be.

#21 Arghore

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:30 PM

Mostly @Ardeni, i don't think anyone (being honest) would want the racial skills to be stronger than profession skills. That said, i do think you (and some others) need to realize that racials are more than just the elites. There are healslot, utilityslot and eliteslot racials; and in regards to the elites we have seen mostly 2 groups of them: the medium recharge and the long recharge elites. Obviously the medium recharge ones are medium strong in relation to the long recharge elites.

So when i question the strength of these racials in relation to the profession skills, i personally think they should be 'as strong' as the other skills in the same catagory. As such i also think that it is very unlikely that people will choose a race merely for a racial skill, (and if so, it's this racial being designed wrong, and not the 'fault' of these racials being equally strong as profession skills) see in regards to the healing skill, it only offers 1 extra choice, as all professions have atleast 3 heals, so the addition of a 4th hardly gives any 'uber' benefits. I would argue the same for the racial utilities, they cover 3 out of 10 skills, so i would find it fairly reasonable to assume that a player will almost automatically choose a skill that is geared towards their profession (& mechanics), with the optional 1 skill slot to be 'free' for a racial skill. Because having skills that synergize well with your profession (by design) tend to be more preferred over non-synergizing skills, NOW, it happens to be the case that the racial skills are designed after certain profession skills, so yes, for all races there are likely a number of skills that synergize well with a certain profession, but that is likely to be 1 specific skill added to about 24 profession skills, competing for a total of 3 slots. This means that the particular racial must be 'realy' strong to be able to compete, where as of now there is basically no competition...

To this then gets added that profession skills are inherently stronger than racials, because profession skills have traits to 'buff' them up, which racials do not have. So even if racial skills were as strong as profession skills, especially at higher levels these profession skills would become more preferred, as they can be 'buffed' by triats... So making them as strong as the profession skills, and giving them a reasonable skillpoint costs. Where i somewhat agree with

View PostLinfang, on 23 May 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Racial or not, the amount of points put into a skill should represent it's power.
Would mean that the skills would play a reasonable role in the early and midlevels, while they become inherently weaker at max lvl (due to traits). Which would give them a more profound role in the game.

View PostSirMoogie, on 23 May 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

I understand Arena Net's perspective on racial skills, but I'm not so sure the majority of players are power gamers and will actively choose a race by class. This will especially be the case if on the character creation screen there is no indication of what the racial skills will be.
You underestimate the GW community, as GW1 was all about synergy in builds, so the inherent playerbase will go after this 'efficiency/effectiveness' by default ;) ... that is why it is important to realise the inherent weaknesses of racial skills (no traits), to realize that making them weaker by design is somewhat weird. Especially if you see their cost in the recent BWE. And as said i agree with Linfang, the skill costs should reflect their power, and in this regard the racials should either be a lot cheaper, or buffed in power. I would suggest doing both, where the power & costs of these skills should reflect early and mid level 'play' (as they are not buffed by traits).

Edited by Arghore, 23 May 2012 - 07:31 PM.


#22 SirMoogie

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:43 PM

View PostArghore, on 23 May 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

You underestimate the GW community, as GW1 was all about synergy in builds, so the inherent playerbase will go after this 'efficiency/effectiveness' by default ;)

I think most of the player base initially will be newcomers, and I do not think most of them will have taken advantage of the wiki when rolling their profession. Nor do I think most will be power gamers, by which I mean, people that research the possibilities for their class and go through rigorous detail to squeeze out extra damage/survivability/etc.  

However, there is no need to guess when we can actually test our hypothesis. Most gamers from polls will choose human from the start (as they do in most MMOs where the human species is usually the most popular).* If it is true that racial skills actually influence profession choice we'd expect there to be a substantial migration to the race with the most influential skills for a specific profession.  I think Arena Net should empower one races' racial skills for the next BWE and run an experiment. I'm guessing you'll get a small shift from gamers that power game and pay attention to skill stats, and little influence on overall population demographics from polls.

* - I'm not sure why this is, but I think people have an easier time connecting to their characters when they are the same species as them. I'm playing a Charr guardian on release, regardless of racial skills. An asura engineer will follow, regardless of racial skills. :)

#23 Imaginos

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:15 PM

View PostArghore, on 23 May 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

Mostly @Ardeni, i don't think anyone (being honest) would want the racial skills to be stronger than profession skills. That said, i do think you (and some others) need to realize that racials are more than just the elites. There are healslot, utilityslot and eliteslot racials; and in regards to the elites we have seen mostly 2 groups of them: the medium recharge and the long recharge elites. Obviously the medium recharge ones are medium strong in relation to the long recharge elites.

So when i question the strength of these racials in relation to the profession skills, i personally think they should be 'as strong' as the other skills in the same catagory. As such i also think that it is very unlikely that people will choose a race merely for a racial skill, (and if so, it's this racial being designed wrong, and not the 'fault' of these racials being equally strong as profession skills) see in regards to the healing skill, it only offers 1 extra choice, as all professions have atleast 3 heals, so the addition of a 4th hardly gives any 'uber' benefits. I would argue the same for the racial utilities, they cover 3 out of 10 skills, so i would find it fairly reasonable to assume that a player will almost automatically choose a skill that is geared towards their profession (& mechanics), with the optional 1 skill slot to be 'free' for a racial skill. Because having skills that synergize well with your profession (by design) tend to be more preferred over non-synergizing skills, NOW, it happens to be the case that the racial skills are designed after certain profession skills, so yes, for all races there are likely a number of skills that synergize well with a certain profession, but that is likely to be 1 specific skill added to about 24 profession skills, competing for a total of 3 slots. This means that the particular racial must be 'realy' strong to be able to compete, where as of now there is basically no competition...

Except not all Long recharge skills are better then all mediums recharge skills.
  • Charzooka - 180 recharge, elite - one of the very top powerful skills, if not the top.
  • Norn Forms - 240 recharge, elite - weaker then charzooka
  • Human Forms (deities) - 180 recharge, elite - seem weaker from the one I saw then charzooka about on par with norn forms, yet shorter cooldown then norn forms.
  • Human Hounds - 240 recharge, elite - one of the better skills from testing by people. Seems fine but longer cooldown then the charzooka.
So either the charzooka is overpowered and needs a nerf or all the others need to be brought in line with it.
  • Norn forms get a 180 recharge (to be on par with human forms) and a small boost in power.
  • Charzooka gets a 240 recharge and stays the same otherwise
  • Human forms stay at 180 recharge but get a small boost in power.
and then the same thing gets done for the non elite abilities to keep them on par with each other. The skill points for all of these abilities should be normalized too, the charzooka is a few points more expensive then the forms (0 to 3pts depending on form). Better variety in abilities could be looked at too.

Charr:
  • aoe fury/might buff (2 buffs)
  • minor ranged attack skill (pistol)
  • aoe condition skill (trap) (2 condtions)
  • aoe damage skill + knockdown [E]
  • ranged high damage weapon summon [E]
  • summon pets (warband) [E]
Human:
  • minor heal
  • condition removal (3 conditions)
  • random boon to you, condition to foe (1 each)
  • transformation [E]
  • summon pets (2) [E]
  • transformation [E]
Norn:
  • summon pet? ~ attack bleed (1 attack?)
  • summon pet (1)
  • transformation [E]
  • transformation [E]
  • transformation [E]
  • transformation [E]
Norns don't get much utility at all, they get 2 atttack general utilitis and then their 4 elites are the norn forms and thats it. Humans get more utility though the random boon/condition seems pretty weak and the heal I hear is ok but not great which I suppose is ok :). The charr get far more variety in buffs/debuffs/damage but no heal. The pistol did seem semi weak but then its not elite either, unlike the amazing charrzooka. The warband suffers like all summons (AI) in that they stand around a bit before doing anything wasting precious spawn-life time, but then the hounds will/do too and same with the worm.

Why don't the norn get a buff/condition or a heal? roll the owl and worm into one new pet or something, pet attacks and bleeds foes, then add a heal or a buff/debuff aoe power.

Why do the humans get a single target buff/condition when the charr get an aoe condition skill or an aoe double buff skill? They're both non elite. The human one costs 1 more skill point too.

Why are the charr skills almost universally better then the other races we've seen so far? Why has ArenaNet let that charr loving dev unbalance the racial skills? Lets get some impartiallity and equality in here please.

Edited by Imaginos, 23 May 2012 - 09:18 PM.


#24 LemonKeyFace

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:05 PM

I have issue with racial skills being disproportionately weaker for engineers, because engineers lose a toolbelt skill when equipping a racial. Which sucks.

#25 Arghore

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:37 PM

@Imaginos, I too find the distribution of skills somewhat weird, especially if viewed listed against eachother, though perhaps once we know the Azura and Sylvari skills we may see some sort of logic to it. Yet, on the other hand i also get the feeling that racial skills are so weirdly balanced amoungst the races because Anet is not yet sure what to do with them:

See when i played the demo at gamescom'11 (or '10 not entirely sure) the racial skills were actually skills you would buy, as i found this 'stall' that 'sold' the Dwayna skill. Not entirely sure how that went, might even have been karma, but since then things obviously changed. Racial skill were kicked out of sPvP entirely, and the skill system changed aswell (back then all skills had tiers and were bought) which got replaced by (i think the better) skillchallenge system. So with all these changes ongoing, and their impact on racials aswell, i can see how actual development on them would be postponed untill the moment when it was clear what to do with them. See if eventually they would be removed entirely, all the dev.time would have been lost. So better find a sollution first, then put in the time to make the full set...

In that sense I think this conversation may also be very valuable for Anet, as they get feedback and views from different people with different stakes (f/e engineers), and different views, which may help them decide what to do with them eventually. :)

#26 Teste

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostArghore, on 23 May 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

3. Some people argue that these skills are weaker so that a person doesn't have to choose a certain race to be a certain profession. A design flaw we see all to often in 'passive racial bonus'-designs. Well, i would argue that the design of these skills is in the hands of Anet, so by design they can make them any way they want to, avoiding these kinds of combo-enhancers. But, as racials are no longer part of sPvP, does that realy matter? There are only 3 utility skills, so the chances of an OP combo is fairly overrated if you'dd ask me...

Since the design of the skills is in the hands of ArenaNet, they have already made them into the way they wanted to avoid any possible kind of imbalanced combo-enhancer between all the racial skills and all profession skills in the game:

By making racial skills weaker. There is no other way to be sure not even one of them will have synergy with a specific profession build leading people to believe that making a "profession X" of "race Y" isn't better than making "profession X" of any other race.

This is the most important goal ArenaNet has to keep in mind. No player should be told, days after playing his/her character, that/she he made a bad choice at character creation since the "best" build for his/her profession requires a different race.

Sure, a lot of players want "cool" racial skills. A lot of players would also be very bad game designers. What someone believes to be "cool" not necessarily is good for the game as a whole.

#27 Protoavis

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:46 PM

View PostImaginos, on 23 May 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

  • summon pet? ~ attack bleed (1 attack?)
Norns don't get much utility at all, they get 2 atttack general utilitis and then their 4 elites are the norn forms and thats it.

The owl isn't really a summon (in the sense of summons) it's more just a condition infliction, the owl just swoops in and then flies off. It does give 100% up time on bleed though (20 second duration, 20 second cooldown)

View PostArghore, on 23 May 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

@Imaginos, I too find the distribution of skills somewhat weird, especially if viewed listed against eachother, though perhaps once we know the Azura and Sylvari skills we may see some sort of logic to it.
Randomly we do (or at least the names of, some of the info of them has been mined and on gw2db) :P They were data mined a couple days ago, although some are a bit wrong (like summon thorn wolf has the hounds of balthazar tooltip the same way the charzooka had the fiery axe one)

Asura race-specific skills:
(summon) Defensive Golem
Golem Suit
(summon) Offensive Golem
Technobabble

Sylvari race-specific skills:
Druid Spirit
Healing Seed
Seed Turret
Take Root
(summon)Thorn Wolf

#28 Imaginos

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:17 AM

View PostArghore, on 23 May 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

@Imaginos, I too find the distribution of skills somewhat weird, especially if viewed listed against eachother, though perhaps once we know the Azura and Sylvari skills we may see some sort of logic to it. Yet, on the other hand i also get the feeling that racial skills are so weirdly balanced amoungst the races because Anet is not yet sure what to do with them:

See when i played the demo at gamescom'11 (or '10 not entirely sure) the racial skills were actually skills you would buy, as i found this 'stall' that 'sold' the Dwayna skill. Not entirely sure how that went, might even have been karma, but since then things obviously changed. Racial skill were kicked out of sPvP entirely, and the skill system changed aswell (back then all skills had tiers and were bought) which got replaced by (i think the better) skillchallenge system. So with all these changes ongoing, and their impact on racials aswell, i can see how actual development on them would be postponed untill the moment when it was clear what to do with them. See if eventually they would be removed entirely, all the dev.time would have been lost. So better find a sollution first, then put in the time to make the full set...

In that sense I think this conversation may also be very valuable for Anet, as they get feedback and views from different people with different stakes (f/e engineers), and different views, which may help them decide what to do with them eventually. :)

That's interesting that you paid karma for skills and the way the tiers were set up then compared to what we have now and looks to be changing a bit yet again next BWE.

I totally agree with the valid points you mentioned here. It does seem odd the way the skills are distributed and Engineers shouldn't be losing a toolbelt skill, but then they shouldn't get an extra skill slot more then everyone else gets either.

The wiki did have a couple asuran and sylvari skills listed but as they haven't been in the BWE's yet I didnt mention them. I'll do so here just for completeness sake...

Asura:
  • Radiation Field: Utility (assuming a debuff of some sort, probably aoe)
  • Golem Battle Suit (Environmental weapon) [E]
Sylvari: (as per the wiki)
  • Blessing of the Pale Tree: Utility (protection buff)
  • Grasping Roots: Utility (condition - immobilize - maybe aoe?)
  • A heal of some sort
  • A skill dealing with the Oakhearts (perhaps a pet summons as humans can turn into one already)
Sylvari: (as per the demo)
  • Druid Spirit (i'm assuming this is the oak heart) - what does it do?
  • Healing Seed (the heal i mentioned below)
  • Seed Turret (assuming this is a placeable trap that fires at foes. - aoe?)
  • Take Root (sounds like grasping root renamed - aoe?)
  • Pet Summon - Thorn Wolf
   (which if any of these are elite?)

So from these we can see the Sylvari need an [E]lite of some sort which may be whatever the oakheart skill is and I'd expect them to get some sort of aoe heal/trap kind of ability, just seems fitting. The Asurans need 4 more skills...perhaps taken from the asuran skills you can get in guild wars one, damage reflection, random buffs over time or while equipped, etc..

View PostProtoavis, on 23 May 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

The owl isn't really a summon (in the sense of summons) it's more just a condition infliction, the owl just swoops in and then flies off. It does give 100% up time on bleed though (20 second duration, 20 second cooldown)


Randomly we do (or at least the names of, some of the info of them has been mined and on gw2db) :P They were data mined a couple days ago, although some are a bit wrong (like summon thorn wolf has the hounds of balthazar tooltip the same way the charzooka had the fiery axe one)

Asura race-specific skills:
(summon) Defensive Golem
Golem Suit
(summon) Offensive Golem
Technobabble

Sylvari race-specific skills:
Druid Spirit
Healing Seed
Seed Turret
Take Root
(summon)Thorn Wolf

Heh seems i was posting as you were posting. Where did you find the seed turret info? that sounds interesting. I'm assuming that was from the demo that the sylvari were playable in?

So the owl is kind of like that guardian hammer summon that just pummels foes in the area and then ends. That's good to know. Wiki needs an update then on the skill. 100% uptime for bleed is decent. How many stacks is it? 5 it would be nice, 1 not so much.

Do you know any more of the Asuran skills from when they were playable? Technobabble also isn't on the wiki.

EDIT Amending Sylvari:

Edited by Imaginos, 24 May 2012 - 12:20 AM.


#29 Protoavis

Protoavis

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostImaginos, on 24 May 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

Heh seems i was posting as you were posting. Where did you find the seed turret info? that sounds interesting. I'm assuming that was from the demo that the sylvari were playable in?

So the owl is kind of like that guardian hammer summon that just pummels foes in the area and then ends. That's good to know. Wiki needs an update then on the skill. 100% uptime for bleed is decent. How many stacks is it? 5 it would be nice, 1 not so much.

Do you know any more of the Asuran skills from when they were playable? Technobabble also isn't on the wiki.



It was someone on reddit, apparently the info is in the current client, they posted it will a full list of the emotes.

No the owl is just swoop in and flies off, its just 1 20sec bleed from what I remember in the stress test (only got it towards the end so didn't play with it much), it didn't appear to stick around for 20 seconds, more like 2 (swoop in and fly away), but the bleed is 20 and the cooldown was 20 so 100% uptime on a bleed.

Technobable is an asura skill in gw1 (aoe damage + daze) so it coming back in gw2 as a racial makes sense from a lore specific, what it does in gw2 though no one can say, just that the skill was found while datamining.

#30 Imaginos

Imaginos

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 02:21 AM

View PostProtoavis, on 24 May 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:


It was someone on reddit, apparently the info is in the current client, they posted it will a full list of the emotes.

No the owl is just swoop in and flies off, its just 1 20sec bleed from what I remember in the stress test (only got it towards the end so didn't play with it much), it didn't appear to stick around for 20 seconds, more like 2 (swoop in and fly away), but the bleed is 20 and the cooldown was 20 so 100% uptime on a bleed.

Technobable is an asura skill in gw1 (aoe damage + daze) so it coming back in gw2 as a racial makes sense from a lore specific, what it does in gw2 though no one can say, just that the skill was found while datamining.

Shame about the owl, 20 second length is nice but a few stacks would be better with a shorter duration for pressure.

I'm glad they're using some of the asuran pve skill names for the racials for asurans. Just makes sense to me and it's nice to see them return. I liked that one of the warrior heals is mending :) as another skill name example i'm glad to see in gw2

On a totally unrelated note looks like we have all or almost all the emotes for mad king thorn to make a Halloween appearance in gw2