49 replies to this topic

[cabaretmesmer]

While I wasn't able to play the BWE 1, I was wondering if the Mesmer was high on DPS IN PvE or is most of the damage conditional? I am an aggressive player so I prefer burst damage over stacking conditions. Would this translate better with an Elementalist or even Warriors and Guardians?

Any thoughts would be nice.

[Ternega]

First off all all classes AFAIK are capable of burst/direct/support/control. More to the point: Mesmers do nice damage and can wreck red bars but are more utility based(portal for one useless directly can do crazy stuff if used with mind put to it). As per class description mesmers are supposed to deceive and control enemy.

Warriors are the burst class, again AFAIK, but thing with warriors if person gets out of melee(i.e. has more escapes than u have gap closers) u are in a baaaad place. If u get into close quarters u kill people as warrior.

Ele's are very all round class and unlikely to have kind of damage u want. Hunters however might be ur thing. Straight forward ball of hurt and while theirs burst  not as mad as warriors its not far behind. Problem of hunters is pet if u are new to mmos or dislike pets that might cause problems.  
Pet is dead u lose damage pet is mishadled u lose damage.

Id suggest try out rogues too here is why they have stealth and u can build glass cannon +100000 power build and rely on stealth for survival. I don't think it to be good idea but usually that kind of thing is quite fun.

Edited by Ternega, 24 May 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[Shinimas]

Mesmers are a bit broken currently, they don't really do that much damage. In their current state they can't hold a candle to Warriors, Thieves and Rangers in pure pain delivery. Not sure if they should, to be honest, since the class has so much utility.

Warriors can be ranged and deal very good damage with offensive Rifle builds, but if you're into melee stuff they have several options (namely Greatsword and MH Axe) that deal exteme amounts of damage if built properly. A lot of people expect them to get nerfed before release.

Thieves can also deal extreme damage, but it involves an MH Dagger + Assassin Signet build and the main burst comes from Backstab, which is quite difficult to land, because you need to be in stealth (which is very limited in GW2) and land the strike in the enemy's back so it inflicts double damage. It's a one trick pony build and it also suffers from very low survivability. However, it's an option.

Rangers I don't really know much about, I think the main deal is with their Greatsword "1" chain being broken and just doing crazy amounts of damage.

Edited by Shinimas, 24 May 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[AXE COP]

Mesmers do fantastic damage if you play them correctly. You definitely need to put more thought into it than, say, a Warrior or Elementalist.

[Sulwen]

This build was designed for PvP but will net you high DPS in PvE no problem (of course you should swap out a few utilities, traits and probably the elite, but the bare bones of it will have you doing fantastic damage; Mind Wrack will deal out huge AoE numbers): http://www.gw2builds...190/clone_spike

The Mesmer when specialized and played properly will have no issues at all in PvE.

Edited by Sulwen, 24 May 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[cabaretmesmer]

Thanks guys for responding. I think that mesmers and casters in general might not be good for me because of my habit of charging into melee range with light armour. o.O I did like my dps pally in WoW and had a magic touch to it. (I am not liking the personality with the Guardian in GW2) In examining the Warrior, I think I might be playing one even though they are going to nerf them most likely. Although I should point out I haven't played just yet because of buying a OS is slightly expensive at the moment (I am an Apple fanboy), so I might just roll both to try them out at the next BWE.

[Babe]

Mesmer single target damage is good with a main-hand sword and pistol/offhand sword. Ranged weapons do little burst damage compared to other classes.

AoE damage sucks, because your burst aoe damage comes from shatters, and by the time your clones walk to shatter the mobs are deaad since other classes' AoE's are far more practical and require less ramp-up.

Elementalists, axe Rangers and Engineers in particular are kings of AoE. Warriors with dual axes can also do pretty ridiculous AoE damage, but ranged classes in general have an easier time AoE'ing.

Mesmer is down there with the Guardian and Necromancer in terms of effective burst AoE capability. These three classes are not very good on aoe damage (and the Necro is bad on burst damage, period).

Edited by Babe, 24 May 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[CasualPvP]

cabaretmesmer, on 24 May 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Although I should point out I haven't played just yet because of buying a OS is slightly expensive at the moment (I am an Apple fanboy), so I might just roll both to try them out at the next BWE.

It is possible, but technically challenging, to run GW2 under Wine in OS X. I haven't tried OS X but it works reasonably well under Linux, although you might have framerate issues. Google for articles and how-to.

[cabaretmesmer]

CasualPvP, on 24 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

It is possible, but technically challenging, to run GW2 under Wine in OS X. I haven't tried OS X but it works reasonably well under Linux, although you might have framerate issues. Google for articles and how-to.

I was going to do it through Wine, the people who were running it were having issues I decided to shell out the extra cash, which shows  how bad I want to play this game.

[Con Artist]

I found most of my damage came from my clones and Mind Wrack in PvE. I stuck with mostly ranged weapons in PvE to minimize damage taken on my mesmer. The enemies in PvE are also not easily fooled or distracted by illusions so you tend to get focus fired often. It's a lot harder to play a Melee Mesmer in PvE because of this. They do however have some nice utility skills which you can use to help your performance in PvE. Since you like to play aggressively, though, I wouldn't recommend the Mesmer in its current form, but rather test out the other professions.

[Tevesh]

Actually mesmer has great burst potential in burst damage/power based builds. Most of them are Mind Wrack centric, and trust me, getting hit by 12x 3-4k mind wracks in ~10-15 sec or so hurts A LOT in pvp. Not sure this potential will translate to decent dps in pve in prolonged fights. Although it also has aoe potential..

Also enemies who actually DO focus on your illusions are a dps mesmer's nemesis. You can literally do no damage if your illusions get killed before you shatter and your illusion spawning skills are limited at best. Most of the time I struggled to spawn at least 2 illusions for mind wrack in competitive pvp against necros, eles, warriors and thieves. Even with the clone on dodge trait that is our best illusion outlet.

Quote

These three classes are not very good on aoe damage (and the Necro is bad on burst damage, period).

Necro is not. You might want to have a closer look at their skills before making such claims. Actually necro has one of the most potent aoe bursts among all classes, although on a rather long cooldown.

Edited by Tevesh, 25 May 2012 - 01:51 AM.

[Babe]

Necro AoE burst sucks, and you're just talking out of your ass if you're comparing it to ele AoE. When you can get necro AoE to hit for 3-4k crits, come back to me. Meteor Shower, Dragon Tooth, and Phoenix blow necro AoE out of the water.

Edited by Babe, 25 May 2012 - 03:06 AM.

[Umbradomo]

I only played a Melee Mesmer up to lvl 10 but it was fun and I had little to no issues with killing mobs. Even when I had 2-3 on me at a time. Most of my attacks seemed to be AOE. With Blurred Frenzy and Illusionary Reposte I took little damage and hit pretty hard, add in Mantra of Pain and you have a nice closer that you can charge before a fight or even in the middle of the Blurred Frenzy attack. I died a total of like 2 times from 1-10. Once in my personal story when I got mobbed by like 6 guys and once in the open when someone ran by training several mobs and my attacks hit them as they went by and they re-aggroed on me. Compared to my Thief who had many issues standing up and living through the same 10 levels.

[Culture Shock]

The truth about Mesmers is that most of the players using them currently don't know how to produce burst damage.  Also they don't really have accurate enough dps data on Mesmers since there are a lot of conditions changing in and out with a fully traited Mesmer.  There are traits that cause confusion after different things happen and the damage of confusion depends on the foe actually attacking so that kind of damage has always been hard to measure.

However Mesmers are one of the most effective classes in PvP and will probably be labeled again as a PvP class.  I was a mostly PvE Mesmer in GW1 and I had a ball proving people wrong about the class on almost every level.  I think the Mesmer as it is now is set to do the same this time.  This video will show a skilled Mesmer in PvP, so you can judge for yourself.

[noblue]

the guy in that video isn't very good, which is excusable considering it's beta

there's no reason to think that mesmers will be bad in any way

[Invigilata]

Some nice fights from that video, but it seemed that guy was spamming skills.  Lost track of how many times he missed with Trick Shot and it seemed he was using Null Field randomly.  That being said, I agree w/ noblue, the mesmer will be a potent force on the battlefield.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Honestly I think thief is more mesmer-like than the mesmer is right now.  Mesmer just spams clones and conditions.  The thief is the one who gets to play mindgames and run bullshit all day with stealth and teleports and rolls.

[noblue]

mesmers also get stealth, teleports, and rolls

try again

[Cataca]

Tevesh, on 25 May 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

Actually mesmer has great burst potential in burst damage/power based builds. Most of them are Mind Wrack centric, and trust me, getting hit by 12x 3-4k mind wracks in ~10-15 sec or so hurts A LOT in pvp. Not sure this potential will translate to decent dps in pve in prolonged fights. Although it also has aoe potential..
*snip*

Yeah, those numbers aint correct

Its 4x 3-4k at the most, that still hurts like hell, but no way in hell we get 40k damage.


It works fine, really. But mind wrack is unusable in heavy aoe fights, since your clones need a tick of anything to disperse. But i guess that goes for anything that relies heavily on clones/phantasms.

[Tevesh]

Cataca, on 26 May 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Yeah, those numbers aint correct

It works fine, really. But mind wrack is unusable in heavy aoe fights, since your clones need a tick of anything to disperse. But i guess that goes for anything that relies heavily on clones/phantasms.

Of course a single mind wrack does 4x. Fact is, you have at least two ways of resetting its cooldown and given your opponent does not aoe your clones down you can have enough of them to fuel them in a quick succesion.

Mantra of Pain with the mantra trait also works fine in such builds.

Quote

Necro AoE burst sucks, and you're just talking out of your ass if you're comparing it to ele AoE. When you can get necro AoE to hit for 3-4k crits, come back to me.

3-4k crits? That's a not so spectacular Necrotic Grasp crit, and Putrid Mark does crit in 5k+ range. And there are still Marked for Death, Deathly Claws and Grim Specter, each of which is a 5-6k aoe.

Quote

Meteor Shower, Dragon Tooth, and Phoenix blow necro AoE out of the water.

Your 'burst aoe' list reveals your little familiarity with ele. Meteor shower? Lol what? It cant even reliably hit your target. The lack of Flame Grab on your 'aoe burst' list sent me on the floor, literally. That's the only skill that can be somewhat called burst aoe for ele, the rest is just slow mediocre damage.

Edited by Tevesh, 26 May 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[Cataca]

Tevesh, on 26 May 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Of course a single mind wrack does 4x. Fact is, you have at least two ways of resetting its cooldown and given your opponent does not aoe your clones down you can have enough of them to fuel them in a quick succesion.

Mantra of Pain with the mantra trait also works fine in such builds.

You will be hard pressed with clone creation. Dodge lasts for 2 clones then you have to wait for at least 1 second to get another out, and another 5 or so for the next one, etc. Unless you want to take away your utility skills with clone creation skills, i dont see how you can do that 4 times in a row, not to say that most clone skills are on a 15 second cooldown on weapons. Every 12 seconds? Sure no issue, but not in quick succession.

And the only way i know of to reset your shatter cooldowns is to get to 50% health. But that skill has a 60 second internal cooldown afaik.

[noblue]

Tevesh, on 26 May 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

The lack of Flame Grab on your 'aoe burst' list sent me on the floor, literally.

really? literally?

Cataca, on 26 May 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

You will be hard pressed with clone creation. Dodge lasts for 2 clones then you have to wait for at least 1 second to get another out, and another 5 or so for the next one, etc. Unless you want to take away your utility skills with clone creation skills, i dont see how you can do that 4 times in a row, not to say that most clone skills are on a 15 second cooldown on weapons. Every 12 seconds? Sure no issue, but not in quick succession.

And the only way i know of to reset your shatter cooldowns is to get to 50% health. But that skill has a 60 second internal cooldown afaik.

there's a signet that resets shatter cooldowns

I agree that 3 full shatters in 15 seconds is unrealistic, but believe me, one shatter is often enough. It does a ton of damage. A lot of people complaining about mind wrack weren't using the critical damage amulet, which adds a huge amount of burst

[Cataca]

noblue, on 26 May 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

there's a signet that resets shatter cooldowns

I agree that 3 full shatters in 15 seconds is unrealistic, but believe me, one shatter is often enough. It does a ton of damage. A lot of people complaining about mind wrack weren't using the critical damage amulet, which adds a huge amount of burst

Yeah, i one shotted some elementalists  (they have scary low hp tho), im just saying that i dont see me non-stop shattering. I also think that its a highly situational burst that only works is there is no aoe around, but the great thing with a shatter based setup is that you have heaps of space to get some utility in, or even another role, so going 100% shatter based damage with clone creation/shatter utilities only narrows down your role.

Against particular classes your clones just wont survive long enough to get the shatters off, and a 2-3 second interruptable stun just isnt long enough to fully spike anything down.

But i would be the last person to complain about our dps. MH sword needs work with leap, and scepter is totally lackluster but otherwise we make it up with our evasiveness.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

noblue, on 26 May 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

mesmers also get stealth, teleports, and rolls

try again

Mesmers have what, Blink, Portal, and swapping with the Illusionary Leap clone?  Thieves have shadowsteps all over the place (including several ground-targeted ones) and they're spammable (albeit at a cost) thanks to initiative system.  Their dodges are vastly superior (tons of passives on their rolls, including one that cuts the endurance used in half) and they can stealth much more reliably.  They also have better interrupt options (traited Steal, Head Shot, Pistol Whip, etc.) so there's that too.

Mesmer can do that stuff too.  Just not as well which is silly.  Right now the mesmer is more like a condition-stacking minion master than anything else.

[Scarlet_Blossom]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 26 May 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

...

It's funny how people who play mesmer think thief is better and people who play thief think mesmer is better.

[noblue]

traited mesmer dodge that makes a clone is probably the best dodge in the game

if you think thieves are more fun than mesmers, and you like the thief resource system, play a thief

Scarlet_Blossom, on 26 May 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

It's funny how people who play mesmer think thief is better and people who play thief think mesmer is better.

yeah, people are like this in every MMO

Edited by noblue, 26 May 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

noblue, on 26 May 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

traited mesmer dodge that makes a clone is probably the best dodge in the game

if you think thieves are more fun than mesmers, and you like the thief resource system, play a thief


yeah, people are like this in every MMO

I plan to play both so that's about as objective as it gets.

Also apparently dodge clones are only good as cannon fodder since they don't apply conditions?  I was asking about this in another thread but it wasn't clear if the responses were speaking assertively or just based on how it "should" be.

[noblue]

every clone you summon will attack with your first weapon skill

if you dodge while using a staff, dodge clones will apply conditions

I know this from playing the game

[GuanglaiKangyi]

noblue, on 26 May 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

every clone you summon will attack with your first weapon skill

if you dodge while using a staff, dodge clones will apply conditions

I know this from playing the game

That's the definitive answer I was looking for.  I still think free endurance, swiftness/might, and caltrops on dodge beats out the clone but both are pretty strong.  Better than lol damage enemies by rolling into them.

[Dirame]

I shall show you a build and I'll show me getting owned by said build.

http://www.gw2builds...25-8.9.1.5.12.2

Please note that the above build is what I assume he was using and I did try it myself and it worked very well.