49 replies to this topic

[Danimalz]

not sure if anyone else noticed the illusionary swordsman at 5 minutes in that video, so he is using sword/pistol and scepter/sword. unless he has a second sword main hand...which is only viable cuz of its low CD's

[noblue]

his burst combo is pretty standard--mind wrack, stun, blurred frenzy

it does a lot of damage, but with some keybinding and a stun break it's certainly survivable. It's worth noting that blurred frenzy does extremely high damage to low/medium armor, but fairly mediocre damage to heavy armor. Toughness is good against skills that deliver a lot of separate hits

[GuanglaiKangyi]

noblue, on 26 May 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

his burst combo is pretty standard--mind wrack, stun, blurred frenzy

it does a lot of damage, but with some keybinding and a stun break it's certainly survivable. It's worth noting that blurred frenzy does extremely high damage to low/medium armor, but fairly mediocre damage to heavy armor. Toughness is good against skills that deliver a lot of separate hits

Given that toughness reduces damage proportionately, that seems odd.

[CrunkJuice2]

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However Mesmers are one of the most effective classes in PvP and will probably be labeled again as a PvP class

meh,they probably arent gonna be played very much though.they seem like one of the harder professions to play in guild wars 2

[noblue]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 26 May 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

Given that toughness reduces damage proportionately, that seems odd.

does it? the description on the wiki says: "High armor is most effective at reducing damage from numerous small hits." And toughness increases armor.

I took that to mean that it's not proportional, and that matches my experience ingame, where light armored classes would take disproportionately high damage from blurred frenzy

Edited by noblue, 27 May 2012 - 01:03 AM.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

noblue, on 27 May 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

does it? the description on the wiki says: "High armor is most effective at reducing damage from numerous small hits." And toughness increases armor.

I took that to mean that it's not proportional, and that matches my experience ingame, where light armored classes would take disproportionately high damage from blurred frenzy

Where does it say that?  Last I checked the formula for damage calculation was (raw damage value)/(raw defense value), i.e. 10% off 10 hits of 10 damage each adds up to the same amount as 10% off 1 hit of 100 damage.

Having more hits stabilizes your damage numbers since you will crit more consistently but won't get as big numbers off them.  The damage you get for comparing a flurry of hits with one big hit may be skewed if that big hit happens to be a critical.

[noblue]

it says that on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwar.../wiki/Toughness

It could be wrong, but it matches my ingame experience

[Babe]

Tevesh, on 26 May 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

3-4k crits? That's a not so spectacular Necrotic Grasp crit, and Putrid Mark does crit in 5k+ range. And there are still Marked for Death, Deathly Claws and Grim Specter, each of which is a 5-6k aoe.



Your 'burst aoe' list reveals your little familiarity with ele. Meteor shower? Lol what? It cant even reliably hit your target. The lack of Flame Grab on your 'aoe burst' list sent me on the floor, literally. That's the only skill that can be somewhat called burst aoe for ele, the rest is just slow mediocre damage.

Ha, Necrotic Grasp doing 3-4k crits. Now that has me in stitches and pretty much discredits anything you say given that necrotic grasp sure as hell ain't hitting for those numbers outside extreme stat stacking instead of a balanced build.

Then you complain about Meteor Shower not hitting anything (because the recognized better dev elementalist player was using it to good effect according to Sharp) and on the same post give out Lich Form unreliable AoE's as well. That's just terrible, and Putrid Mark doesn't crit for 5k reliably. Not even close. The bulls.hit meter just broke from that trigger; and if you're going to make up numbers that don't exist in any practical sense, I don't care to continue such a dishonest conversation.

Edited by Babe, 27 May 2012 - 04:52 AM.

[Strill]

noblue, on 26 May 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Toughness is good against skills that deliver a lot of separate hits

No it's not.  That misunderstanding was created when someone misunderstood a dev comment from months ago.  Toughness reduces damage by a percent that is independent of the amount of damage dealt.

[noblue]

someone should change the wiki in that case

[Tevesh]

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Now that has me in stitches and pretty much discredits anything you say given that necrotic grasp sure as hell ain't hitting for those numbers outside extreme stat stacking instead of a balanced build.

Except a necro can afford to sacrifice survivability in stats cause of DS LF and SA while no other class can to that extent. Why do you even try to argue? Those numbers are reachable in a perfectly viable build, especially viable in WvW.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Tevesh, on 27 May 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Except a necro can afford to sacrifice survivability in stats cause of DS LF and SA while no other class can to that extent. Why do you even try to argue? Those numbers are reachable in a perfectly viable build, especially viable in WvW.

Death Shroud isn't really a substitute for survivability.  It's more of a panic button for when you're about to die.

[Babe]

Yeah, DS only gives some absorption in a more sporadic way that still doesn't substitute a balanced build. In DS you're not applying conditions as well, and all the opponent needs to do is stall, so that when you come out of death shroud they blow you up since you have no defensive stats whatsoever.

Having 27k hp means nothing if people are hitting you for 7k+ burst sequences easily. You're squishy as hell and a liability to the team.

[noblue]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 27 May 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

Death Shroud isn't really a substitute for survivability.  It's more of a panic button for when you're about to die.

the better necros I've seen are constantly switching in and out of death shroud--I don't think it's a good idea to save it

[Cataca]

Babe, on 27 May 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Yeah, DS only gives some absorption in a more sporadic way that still doesn't substitute a balanced build. In DS you're not applying conditions as well, and all the opponent needs to do is stall, so that when you come out of death shroud they blow you up since you have no defensive stats whatsoever.

Having 27k hp means nothing if people are hitting you for 7k+ burst sequences easily. You're squishy as hell and a liability to the team.

I dont really think that being very squishy automatically makes you a liability for your team. I used a glass cannon build during the stresstest as well, and while i sure had to watch out, we have the mobility and evasion options to avoid getting hit first and foremost. The same is true with the necromancer i think. In the end, the current gameplay options (capture point) dont necessarily need any real dps to win a match, but i think there will be more to come and i allready was a very valid counter to solo flag capturers.

[Valkaneer]

I'm just not seeing this huge damage from the Mesmer. 3-4k crits I call BS, maybe with all 3 illusions together all criting at the same time. I have hit 8.5k crits on a Rogue and on an Elementalist. I do not belive anyone is getting 9-12k crits total from the mesmer. I want to see a video with it. Best so far I have been able to pull off is 2.5kcrits.

I have been looking and it seems like a lot of the times only 1 mind wrack even goes off.  The first one is hitting but the next two are doing nothing at all.  I think Once the fist one goes off if the other 2 are not right on top of him there Mind Wrack does nothing to him
.

Other things the Traits have changed and the build listed in this thread are no longer possible.  So as I was saying I don't belive huge damage is possible from the mesmer.

edit:  I meant to say mesmer is one of the better dps classes, but I do not belive they are in the same class as Theif, Elementalist, Rangers, or Warriors.

Alright I finally got one good Mind wrack with all 3 being crits I did it right after a mind stab on the heavy Golem for 4,726 total.  So that is far away from any huge numbers that you can pull of with a Thief or Elementalist.  LIke I said today I pulled out a 8.5k crit with NO Sigs at all.

Edited by Valkaneer, 10 June 2012 - 05:41 AM.

[Shinimas]

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edit: I meant to say mesmer is one of the better dps classes, but I do not belive they are in the same class as Theif, Elementalist, Rangers, or Warriors.

Guardian outDPSs Rangers, Warriors, non-dagger Thiefs and Eles. In this build anyway.

[Valkaneer]

Shinimas, on 10 June 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Guardian outDPSs Rangers, Warriors, non-dagger Thiefs and Eles. In this build anyway.

No they don't.  Memser is the highest damage class this build.  Phantasims are broke doing stupid stupid damage.

Edit: deleted part of my post cuz it was inaccurate, I missunderstood how the numbers work in scrolling text.  Anyway though 2 phantasims at the same time is very good a solid 5k every time they attack.  Thing I had a problem with is Illusions randomly poping  out taking the spots for my phantasims.  That was a pain, but if you can get 3 out at a time They can do massive damage,

Edited by Valkaneer, 11 June 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[Shinimas]

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No they don't. Memser is the highest damage class this build. Phantasims are broke doing stupid stupid damage.

They do in my experience. Not saying they can outDPS the broken Mesmer build, though.

[Selmu]

Valkaneer, on 10 June 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

No they don't.  Memser is the highest damage class this build.  Phantasims are broke doing stupid stupid damage.

My illusionary Duelist unloaded one time and killed a heavy golem.  It did something like 25-30k damage by it's self.  I can have 2 phantasims out at at time they do HUGE and I mean HUGE damage when you spec them.  Belive me no class does this kind of damage.  There bugged cuz my damage logs show my duelist doing 200-300 damage a bullet but its doing 2-5k instead.

EDIT: well I moved over to one of the lighter armor Golems and I had another Unload that crit every shot ....... 7-10k every bullet.   Anet needs to fix that asap.

Broken has hell. To bad i barely played this beta every match with mesmer rangers and guardian facerolling ppl.

My long bow skills 2 hit 7- 13k, lol and im not glass cannon speced.