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Best Bleeder

best bleed dps profession dots pvp

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#31 Apocalyptic

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:32 PM

View PostNyth, on 28 May 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Best can be interpreted in a lot of different ways.

I think thief is the best at stacking a lot of stacks fast and quite reliable. However the thief suffers from an immense "burn out" after applying the stacks. Initiative low and not much to fall back on.
If someone cleanses your stacks, or if a second opponent shows up; you might be in trouble.
Hence why it's called a bit gimmicky. (And this might very well get nerfed, just like they nerfed how you could stack 10+ bleed with pistols in a single unload)

Other classes, like the necromancer don't have that problem. They don't have to go out of their way and/or use a gimmicky build to get it done. If someone cleanses my bleeds, it's not much of an issue; I can put most of them back on in a few seconds.

So the best bleeder, depends largely on your perspective. To me best bleeder sounds like which profession is the most efficient with a bleed condition damage build. In which case I gravitate more towards the necromancer over thief. Even though the latter can apply a lot of bleeds stacks much faster.

It really is not much faster.  A Scepter Necro traited for bleeds (and gets all crits and earth procs) will be able to stack them damn near close to the speed of the thief.  Like you mentioned, the thief can stack bleeds reliably faster than any other profession, but once they are stacked, the drop off is huge.

#32 Mammoth

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:52 PM

Actually I just realised my earlier post was wrong and ranger has the potential to stack 22 bleeds in under a second. You would never get all 22, but somewhere between 12-22 every time is pretty good. Faces the same problem as the thief though, long cooldowns/initiative regen means condition removal is troublesome. The ranger is in a better position than the thief afterwards though, still stacking them up faster than one per second. Pretty sure that puts him ahead of the thief in both regards. Set up with sharpening stone, sharpened edges, sigil of superior earth, snow lynx. Run up to an enemy, hit splitblade+rending pounce. Maul afterwards means you can hit 25 quicker than anyone. Splitblade is on a short cooldown so you can keep spamming bleeds afterwards, but you'll have to wait for your sharpening stone cooldown before you have a chance to hit 20 bleeds from a single attack again.

Edited by Mammoth, 29 May 2012 - 01:01 AM.


#33 Drekor

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:12 AM

View PostMorghana, on 28 May 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

I have seen a warrior (sword/shield), and a thief (dual pistol) stacking bleeds.. I had like 18 stacks in no time, however I was with my guardian and then I poped: Contemplation of Purity (60s) Remove all conditions from yourself and turn them into boons... peeew that was close!!  :P
Then the necro corrupts boons and turns them back into conditions :)

#34 Morghana

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:50 AM

View PostDrekor, on 29 May 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:


Then the necro corrupts boons and turns them back into conditions :)

lol, thank to gosh there was none close..  :D

I have to say that's the main reason why I had it in my bars, and also why I avoid uber boon stacking builds for spvp (with my elem it doesn't mind, because she has everything to clean those up..)

On topic, when you want to land a heavy bursty aoe, try first to cc/snare your enemies.. there are plenty times to use those when you are not being targeted too. If you don't find the way to make something right, please avoid ' it's broken, I don't get it' stuff and ask first how others can make it works.

I find way more useful for spvp applying bleeds sustained but in a sure way (necro,elem, dual sword warrior) than spike abilities or with only a 'chance on'.. Because people usually save their cleanse cond cds for moments like those.

(And I don't see the point if you can have a bursty proff, why in heck build it for conditions instead. Ranger has a lot of utilities better than the bleed one, imo.)

Edited by Morghana, 29 May 2012 - 06:02 AM.


#35 Mammoth

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:31 AM

View PostMorghana, on 29 May 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

(And I don't see the point if you can have a bursty proff, why in heck build it for conditions instead. Ranger has a lot of utilities better than the bleed one, imo.)

Keep in mind sharpening stones is less than a quarter of that. The splitblade itself is on a 6s cooldown and applies up to fifteen bleeds. I'm starting to think ranger might be the overall winner here.

Edited by Mammoth, 29 May 2012 - 06:35 AM.


#36 BaconSoda

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:18 AM

View PostApocalyptic, on 28 May 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

The greatsword will be the first build nerfed... infact I would wager anything that it takes a significant dmg nerf before launch. Ranger axe is great IMO for bleeds. The hands down winner is necro followed by stone spamming ele. I'd say Ranger and Thief are quite similar.

I'd agree with you that the damage is a little high, but this is inconsequential given that the post ignores that facet completely and we're talking about bleeding potential.

The point of using the Greatsword over the mainhand Axe is that you get a four bleed stack regardless of proximity (because you have to be in melee :P) and two and a third of your skills are devoted to your longevity. Hence why I said:

View PostBaconSoda, on 28 May 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

That's why I'd rather talk about the four bleed stack with a twenty second cooldown on the Greatsword rather than the five bleed stack with a six second cooldown on the Axe. The case in the former is that your pet is doing the bleeding while you're surviving...while in the latter you reverse the roles and use the Axe so you're supplying the bleeding and your pet is surviving...

The axe is likewise viable but much different and less survivable. Given a PvP setting, I'd imagine your pet would be more or less ignored, which would probably make the Greatsword better. In PvE, though, the choice is less obvious and you can use a variety of different techniques to get the desired result: lots of bleeds.

Edited by BaconSoda, 29 May 2012 - 07:18 AM.


#37 Morghana

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:06 AM

View PostMammoth, on 29 May 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:



Keep in mind sharpening stones is less than a quarter of that. The splitblade itself is on a 6s cooldown and applies up to fifteen bleeds. I'm starting to think ranger might be the overall winner here.

Oh I see..

I never used axes in spvp, I tested always long bow in one set and the other: great sword, sword/war horn or shortbow.

I used traited ' survival' utilities (I love those), and thorns elite.

#38 Killyox

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:58 AM

NEcro stacking 20+ stacks of bleed and hitting "epidemic". Hands Down.

View PostMammoth, on 28 May 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

Actually I just realised my earlier post was wrong and ranger has the potential to stack 22 bleeds in under a second. You would never get all 22, but somewhere between 12-22 every time is pretty good. Faces the same problem as the thief though, long cooldowns/initiative regen means condition removal is troublesome. The ranger is in a better position than the thief afterwards though, still stacking them up faster than one per second. Pretty sure that puts him ahead of the thief in both regards. Set up with sharpening stone, sharpened edges, sigil of superior earth, snow lynx. Run up to an enemy, hit splitblade+rending pounce. Maul afterwards means you can hit 25 quicker than anyone. Splitblade is on a short cooldown so you can keep spamming bleeds afterwards, but you'll have to wait for your sharpening stone cooldown before you have a chance to hit 20 bleeds from a single attack again.

i got to 25 stacks with ranger with proper gear, traits, pet and skills in under 4 seconds. DMG was crazy. Weapon used was shortbow.

Kinda sucks that pet doesnt take your condition dmg into account.

Edited by Killyox, 29 May 2012 - 11:58 AM.


#39 Ayestes

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:49 PM

Bleed Strength and Sigil of Earth really need to be taken into account.  I'd always considered Warriors and Necros to be the best at it because of some of their multi-hit tools.  I mean, I was averaging 13 to 14 bleeds from the Warrior's Flurry skill alone with a high crit build with Fury.  Multi-Attacks are often the best bleeders just because of Sigil of Earth.

It's interesting to see others such as the Thief and Elementalist be rather good at it as well though.

#40 Apocalyptic

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 04:31 PM

View PostBaconSoda, on 29 May 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

I'd agree with you that the damage is a little high, but this is inconsequential given that the post ignores that facet completely and we're talking about bleeding potential.

The point of using the Greatsword over the mainhand Axe is that you get a four bleed stack regardless of proximity (because you have to be in melee :P) and two and a third of your skills are devoted to your longevity. Hence why I said:



The axe is likewise viable but much different and less survivable. Given a PvP setting, I'd imagine your pet would be more or less ignored, which would probably make the Greatsword better. In PvE, though, the choice is less obvious and you can use a variety of different techniques to get the desired result: lots of bleeds.

I don't understand your argument.  The axe has much better survivability alone from the kiting and your chill.  You have much more control over your enemies with an axe.  You can play defensive with any weapon set and let your pets apply the bleeds.  The greatsword is not as defensive as you make it out to be.  Remember, your maul has to be in melee range and is quite buggy applying those 4 bleeds.  After playing 30+ hours on my ranger, nothing came close to the axe and applying conditions.

Check this build out... it wasn't my exact build (i can't remember it TBH), but it was close:

http://www.gw2builds...eavy_conditions

For bleeds/conditions as a ranger, this build will apply many more (with more frequency) than any GS build.

With all that being said, the true master of bleeding is definitely a necro.  I played the necro much less than my ranger, but in that short amount of time, I was in awe at how fast you can stack bleeds in PvE and WvW even without traits (all due to the scepter).  In sPvP, going full crit with a necro along with earth signet on weapons and your 100% trait to apply bleed on crit, and your a bleed machine.

Once again, this is not my build and I def would change it up a bit (i'm just too lazy to post one of my own), but this build worked when I played it in the stress test:

http://www.gw2builds...nd_wvw_variants

I prefer epidemic in every situation though.  Stacking your bleeds and then making everyone in the area suffer too is a great feeling (and it has a relative short cooldown for a utility ability).  Condition removal is a joke with this build as you honestly apply on average 2 bleeds with every scepter swing... and your bleeds last 60% longer than any other profession when traited.  So many people cried about the necro being UP, but when played correctly, they have more survivability than any other profession except a full blown defensive guardian.  Throw in your wicked sustained damage and there was very few builds that could go 1v1 with me.  (the only build I had trouble with was the GS warrior spike build that will also probably get a slight dmg nerf before launch).

Edited by Apocalyptic, 29 May 2012 - 05:41 PM.


#41 blakdoxa

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:25 PM

View PostApocalyptic, on 29 May 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

I don't understand your argument.  The axe has much better survivability alone from the kiting and your chill.  You have much more control over your enemies with an axe.  You can play defensive with any weapon set and let your pets apply the bleeds.  The greatsword is not as defensive as you make it out to be.  Remember, your maul has to be in melee range and is quite buggy applying those 4 bleeds.  After playing 30+ hours on my ranger, nothing came close to the axe and applying conditions.

Check this build out... it wasn't my exact build (i can't remember it TBH), but it was close:

http://www.gw2builds...eavy_conditions

For bleeds/conditions as a ranger, this build will apply many more (with more frequency) than any GS build.

With all that being said, the true master of bleeding is definitely a necro.  I played the necro much less than my ranger, but in that short amount of time, I was in awe at how fast you can stack bleeds in PvE and WvW even without traits (all due to the scepter).  In sPvP, going full crit with a necro along with earth signet on weapons and your 100% trait to apply bleed on crit, and your a bleed machine.

Once again, this is not my build and I def would change it up a bit (i'm just too lazy to post one of my own), but this build worked when I played it in the stress test:

http://www.gw2builds...nd_wvw_variants

I prefer epidemic in every situation though.  Stacking your bleeds and then making everyone in the area suffer too is a great feeling (and it has a relative short cooldown for a utility ability).  Condition removal is a joke with this build as you honestly apply on average 2 bleeds with every scepter swing... and your bleeds last 60% longer than any other profession when traited.  So many people cried about he necro being UP, but when played correctly, they have more survivability than any other profession except a full blown defensive guardian.  Throw in your wicked sustained damage and there was very few builds that could go 1v1 with me.  (the only build I had trouble with was the GS warrior spike build that will also probably get a slight dmg nerf before launch).
You are right.
With the proper build you can nearly render any form of condition removal useless, no matter how much of it is carried.

Can only be possibly counted with "remove a condition after X time" skill/traits. Even with those it's a stretch cause 20+ stacks of bleed (with decent condition damage) can kill under 10 seconds.

Even worse if you can cover your bleeds with other conditions.

#42 Apocalyptic

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 05:36 PM

View Postblakdoxa, on 29 May 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

You are right.
With the proper build you can nearly render any form of condition removal useless, no matter how much of it is carried.

Can only be possibly counted with "remove a condition after X time" skill/traits. Even with those it's a stretch cause 20+ stacks of bleed (with decent condition damage) can kill under 10 seconds.

Even worse if you can cover your bleeds with other conditions.

Even if they get removed, you can have 8-12 bleeds back on the target within 6 seconds.  Hit epidemic in a group situation, and the whole area is suffering the same amount.  I just wish the scepter had 1200 range (or at least a trait that could push it to 1200 range) so i could focus on using it more in WvW.

Edited by Apocalyptic, 29 May 2012 - 05:37 PM.


#43 tbox

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 03:04 AM

5 necros 5 guardians  condition 10 man would be interesting to try in WvW.  You can have all those bleeds trigger burning with the guardians virtue of something. I would consider trying it out in WvW this BWE but I am concerned you cant lvl and gear high enough for WvW in BWE to get enough beneficial bleed traits and gear.  I am gathering folks for 10man extreme setups for the next BWE if you can think of something else to try out.

Edited by tbox, 02 June 2012 - 03:05 AM.


#44 BaconSoda

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:25 AM

View PostApocalyptic, on 29 May 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

I don't understand your argument.  The axe has much better survivability alone from the kiting and your chill.  You have much more control over your enemies with an axe.  You can play defensive with any weapon set and let your pets apply the bleeds.  The greatsword is not as defensive as you make it out to be.  Remember, your maul has to be in melee range and is quite buggy applying those 4 bleeds.  After playing 30+ hours on my ranger, nothing came close to the axe and applying conditions.

Check this build out... it wasn't my exact build (i can't remember it TBH), but it was close:

http://www.gw2builds...eavy_conditions

For bleeds/conditions as a ranger, this build will apply many more (with more frequency) than any GS build.

Okay, maybe I wasn't clear.

This is the kind of thing I was talking about with a pet. You're right that you can take any weapons and let pets apply bleeds, but I prefer the Greatsword simply because, well, you can't kite Eviscerate or Kill Shot, but you can block it or daze the foe, and you can't kite a condition removal or heal skill, but you can daze or stun it. You're right and I agree that you can use the axe with a pet, but maybe I was not clear in my intention for using the Greatsword. Great thing about having two weapon sets, huh? :P

Looking at the traits, though, the build you link ignores the extreme potential of the Snow Lynx. With Malice and Speed Training alone, a feline pet puts on a constant 4 bleed stack with Maul. With Commanding Voice, Rending Lunge for the Snow Lynx is a stackable 2 stack bleed for 20 seconds each execution plus the Malice Training time bonus. That's pretty significant. Then you can add in the extra damage from Expertise Training. Additionally, Quickening Zephyr is on a 60 second cooldown for four seconds of quickness. Look at Zephyr's Speed instead: it's two seconds of quickness on a 20 or 40 second cooldown depending on your pet being alive plus the same boon for your pet. Then you add in Loud Whistle and the cooldown is either 12 or 24 seconds for two seconds of quickness. Take a Snow Lynx and a Snow Leopard and you can have a load of constant bleeding, the chill from the axe, and much more frequent quickness.

Utilities and elite are kind of up to style so I left them blank. The point I was trying to make was about how great the traits are for pets right now. Hopefully that makes more sense.

But then again with the new trait system that kind of thing might be obsolete. We'll see.

Edited by BaconSoda, 04 June 2012 - 03:53 PM.


#45 Killyox

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:43 PM

View PostMorghana, on 27 May 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Oh well..

Elementalist:  

Scepter - Earth 1 skill, Stone shards, 3x bleeds no cd.

Dagger off hand- Earth 5 skill, Churning earth, 5x bleeds 30s cd.

Necromancer:

Staff - 2 skill, Mark of blood, 3x bleeds 10s cd

Scepter - 1 skill, Blood curse, 1x bleed no cd. 2 skill, Grasping earth, 1x bleed 10s cd

Utilities- Blood is power, 2x bleeds 30s cd. Corrupt boon, X (depends on boons stacking) bleeds 25s cd.

actually it's Grasping Dead for necro and it applies 2 or 3 stacks iirc fro last bwe

#46 Morghana

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:48 PM

View PostKillyox, on 05 June 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:



actually it's Grasping Dead for necro and it applies 2 or 3 stacks iirc fro last bwe

yeah.. proly you are right, I tested the condition mancer but I can't tell how many stacks did with what.. only did spvp.. and the info was in the wiki.

#47 CCTim2012

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:06 PM

sword warrior.

#48 Strill

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:33 PM

Greatsword Crit Mesmer.

Clones Bleed on Crit
2x Sigil of Earth

60% crit rate means 1.8 bleeds every time a clone attacks, and your sigils mean 2.16 bleeds every time you attack. On average that's 7.5 bleeds every volley for a Mesmer and three clones.

Edited by Strill, 07 June 2012 - 07:39 PM.


#49 Apocalyptic

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:46 PM

View PostStrill, on 07 June 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Greatsword Crit Mesmer.

Clones Bleed on Crit
2x Sigil of Earth

60% crit rate means 1.8 bleeds every time a clone attacks, and your sigils mean 2.16 bleeds every time you attack. On average that's 7.5 bleeds every volley for a Mesmer and three clones.

How do you have 2 sigils equipped?

Edited by Apocalyptic, 07 June 2012 - 07:46 PM.


#50 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:49 PM

View PostStrill, on 07 June 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Greatsword Crit Mesmer.

Clones Bleed on Crit
2x Sigil of Earth

60% crit rate means 1.8 bleeds every time a clone attacks, and your sigils mean 2.16 bleeds every time you attack. On average that's 7.5 bleeds every volley for a Mesmer and three clones.
Only one sigil on greatsword. Pretty sure your clones do not get bonuses from your sigils, either. Clones have a low chance to crit. So no.

#51 Strill

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:17 AM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 07 June 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Only one sigil on greatsword. Pretty sure your clones do not get bonuses from your sigils, either. Clones have a low chance to crit. So no.
Two-handed weapons will have two sigil slots
https://docs.google....rdvA/edit?pli=1

Sharper Images gives clones bleed on crit

Clones have the same crit as you do.

#52 Apocalyptic

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 01:33 AM

View PostStrill, on 08 June 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

Two-handed weapons will have two sigil slots
https://docs.google....rdvA/edit?pli=1

Sharper Images gives clones bleed on crit

Clones have the same crit as you do.

You're still assuming that the sigils stack.  Did you try that in BWE1? (with a mainhand/offhand set)

Edited by Apocalyptic, 08 June 2012 - 01:33 AM.


#53 Angelus359

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 03:21 AM

What about a double sigil of superior earth set for thief, with an additional 3 initiative per 10 seconds from 1 signet+1trait, plus 2 init back on dualskill?

Unload shoots 8 times...thats 8 hits that have a chance to crit.

I timed unload from a video. Its 1 second.

Thats 40 shots in 5 seconds, assuming 5/8ths crit (62.5%)... On average you get 6 bleeds per unload... That can add the full 24 stacks in 4 seconds.

Assuming you rune properly, you can get 3 +15% bleed duration runes

That raises bleed to 7.25 seconds, assuming addition, not multiply, 7.6 seconds with multiply...

Given that, after 5 seconds, you are running a full 25 stacks of bleed on them... note, this is on a health+critical build :P

Edited by Angelus359, 08 June 2012 - 03:32 AM.


#54 keresturec

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 03:51 AM

I realized that warrior, ranger, elementalist, thief, and possibly necro and mesmer have all very quick ways to build up to 25 stacks. The thing to consider which I ignored in OP is who is better at sustaining those high amounts of bleed? To answer that question, I'd say elementalist with spammable #1 skill is a serious competition.

#55 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:44 AM

View PostAngelus359, on 08 June 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

What about a double sigil of superior earth set for thief, with an additional 3 initiative per 10 seconds from 1 signet+1trait, plus 2 init back on dualskill?

Unload shoots 8 times...thats 8 hits that have a chance to crit.

I timed unload from a video. Its 1 second.

Thats 40 shots in 5 seconds, assuming 5/8ths crit (62.5%)... On average you get 6 bleeds per unload... That can add the full 24 stacks in 4 seconds.

Assuming you rune properly, you can get 3 +15% bleed duration runes

That raises bleed to 7.25 seconds, assuming addition, not multiply, 7.6 seconds with multiply...

Given that, after 5 seconds, you are running a full 25 stacks of bleed on them... note, this is on a health+critical build :P

I dunno if Sigil of Earth has a cooldown or something, but Unload doesn't stack bleed.  You only get the one.  I'm guessing it has a 1s cooldown just like all the other on-crit skills.

#56 Angelus359

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:15 AM

All "on crit" effects have a 1 second cooldown? Oh damn... I may take double freeze then.

Turns out I perfer sigil of superior blood 2x or sigil of superior blood + sigil of superior ice anyways.

Superior blood heals you AND does more damage than the 5 second bleed

#57 grimmson

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:14 AM

View Postkeresturec, on 08 June 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

I realized that warrior, ranger, elementalist, thief, and possibly necro and mesmer have all very quick ways to build up to 25 stacks. The thing to consider which I ignored in OP is who is better at sustaining those high amounts of bleed? To answer that question, I'd say elementalist with spammable #1 skill is a serious competition.

care to explain that mesmer thing? I was only able to apply a 25 bleed stack when I had 3 clones attacking the same target and all time waped. But nonetheless it was extremely fun to play a gs sword bleed mesmer. I could maintain a 10-15 stack on an enemy on 1200 range with all the funny extra stuff mesmers bring to a fight^^

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 08 June 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

I dunno if Sigil of Earth has a cooldown or something, but Unload doesn't stack bleed.  You only get the one.  I'm guessing it has a 1s cooldown just like all the other on-crit skills.

A bug perhaps? Auto-attack of the greatsword of the mesmer hits faster than 1/second and it can apply more than 1 bleed with one attack.

Edited by grimmson, 11 June 2012 - 01:17 AM.


#58 Dirame

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:38 AM

Funny thing I found out the other day, Mesmers are one of the best bleeders.

View PostStrill, on 08 June 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

Two-handed weapons will have two sigil slots
https://docs.google....rdvA/edit?pli=1

Sharper Images gives clones bleed on crit

Clones have the same crit as you do.

Sigils don't stack. Also, don't reveal the truth... or else..... DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUNNNN

Edited by Dirame, 11 June 2012 - 09:37 AM.


#59 blakdoxa

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:42 AM

View PostDirame, on 11 June 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

Funny thing I found out the other day, Mesmers are one of the best bleeders.



Sigils don't stack. Also, don't reveal the truth... or else..... DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUNNNN
You absolutely sure about this one???
It's been bugging me for a while whether sigils stack together.
For instance, will stacking two sigils of earth give a higher proc rate for bleeds?
It's been driving me crazy for a while now...

#60 GuanglaiKangyi

GuanglaiKangyi

    Golem Rider

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:53 AM

View Postblakdoxa, on 12 June 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

You absolutely sure about this one???
It's been bugging me for a while whether sigils stack together.
For instance, will stacking two sigils of earth give a higher proc rate for bleeds?
It's been driving me crazy for a while now...

Sigil of Earth does.  Unload with thief gives about 5-6 stacks with 2 sigils at 70% crit rate and only about 3-4 with one.  I don't think they can both trigger at the same time but they will increase the chance to proc the effect.  Along those lines sigils with guaranteed effects (i.e. Superior Battle) won't give double the effect so there's no reason to take two.





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