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Guild Wars 2 = Zerg Wars 2?

Zerg Zerging Zerg Wars

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#31 Big Ol Norn

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:08 PM

You don't have to follow the crowd around. I've found there's usually multiple events per level range.

Also people aren't going to 'stick' to a mob of people very long. I found maybe 2 or 3 would sort of do the next thing in order after a big mob was around... but not the whole mob. I mean it's a free open game world so I think most people are going to want some space and move around a bit. There's no big advantage to zerging. You can play the content solo or a few people, anyway so why would people all want to be standing on top of each other barely able to see anything with the spells going off? Seems kind of annoying to me, unless the event really needs that many people.

#32 TyrenBlood

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:10 PM

Interestingly enough, only one troll in this thread so far.
Looks like the community is one of the better ones, which is nice to see.

I have to agree that the BWE boxed the players in and made it worse.
When they spread out a bit it will start to get less zergy.

But once people start reaching lvl 80 areas, they will be boxed in again.
Every day more players will arrive there and most will want to play that content.
That could lead to the exact same problem.
Zerg mindlessly zerging.

I also agree that Guild Wars 2 is fun and the Events are too, unless overrun by Zerg.
Maybe befriending people on a low population server could help?
Just switch when one area becomes too populated.

@Big Ol Norn

Zerg like to just swarm content mindlessly and
your only options really are to move out of its way or join it.

Edited by TyrenBlood, 28 May 2012 - 05:13 PM.


#33 Torgaard

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:10 PM

View PostFatalis, on 28 May 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

This is mainly a problem with having entire populations restricted to only a few zones.

There certainly will be far less zerging as the game progresses and people spread out.

This (obviously).  It's a problem that plagues every MMO on release.

Which, by the way, is why I'm always a little confused as to why they don't just let people keep their beta toons for release.  I can only assume it would go a long way towards spreading people out from the insanely frustrating overpopulation of the ~1-30 experience in most MMO's.

#34 travisr

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:41 PM

Guild Wars 2 PvE I dont think was desgined to be hard. Someone mentioned the devs made sure that any group class combo could run the dungeons successfully. So I am pretty sure all Dynamic Events in popular PvE zones will be mindless for the most part. If you're looking for a PvE challenge I don't know if this game will provide it at least not in very popular PvE zones while doing Dynamic Events.

Edited by travisr, 28 May 2012 - 05:42 PM.


#35 Myrina

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:43 PM

The other thing to consider is that most of the dynamic events are just a better way to do quests. That's it. They're not meant to be complex encounters that require intense organization. How often are you challenged during questing in other MMOs? Most of the challenge will be found in your dungeons, particularly on explorable mode. There are also elite dynamic events that should require organization as well.

If the explorable mode dungeons and the places like Orr end up being cakewalk zerg-fests, I'll be as angry as the rest of you. I just don't think it's a big deal for normal, low-level places.

#36 Inraged Twitch

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:48 PM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

During the BWE I was very troubled by how many of the Dynamic Events played out.

A mindless Zerg sitting on/near the enemy spawn point and spamming their skills mindlessly as soon as enemies spawn.
In the event of a boss, just throwing themselves at it, no matter how often they die.
No strategy or anything, they are back up and spamming soon after anyways.
This also seemed to work well for any Event that resolved around killing, which are the majority.

I really did not enjoy a single one of those Events and they are a large part of the game.
Sadly I also dont see much hope of this being solved as GW2 isnt instanced based,
giving them little control over the number of people taking part in one Event.

Is there still hope for those Events or are they lost to the Zerg?

Of course it was a zerg its a freaking beta GW1 (referring AB when it first was out)  was the same way as well as EQ back in the day I don't know of a AAA game that hasn't had massive zergs when the game is in beta stage / beginning stages of release.

BTW if you manage to find a DE and try and do it by your self it is incredibly difficult or at least the one's I found were.

Edited by Inraged Twitch, 28 May 2012 - 09:50 PM.


#37 Trixh

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Interestingly enough, only one troll in this thread so far.
Looks like the community is one of the better ones, which is nice to see.

I have to agree that the BWE boxed the players in and made it worse.
When they spread out a bit it will start to get less zergy.

But once people start reaching lvl 80 areas, they will be boxed in again.
Every day more players will arrive there and most will want to play that content.
That could lead to the exact same problem.
Zerg mindlessly zerging.

I also agree that Guild Wars 2 is fun and the Events are too, unless overrun by Zerg.
Maybe befriending people on a low population server could help?
Just switch when one area becomes too populated.


But people will keep making new chars. Do other stuff. sPvP, WvWvW, Dungeons, Crafting, Exploring

So even on 80 the people will be spread out more then during the BWE.

Edited by Trixh, 28 May 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#38 4arsie4

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 03:50 AM

One of the issues is that you cannot prevent a DE from being overrun with people, even if you started it with your team of 5 and wanted a tactical fun fight. The game will automatically announce it to nearby players, and some will join in.

It should thin out a bit during launch and after, but I think some people who dismiss this as a problem outright because of it being a BWE. During launch, yes, there will be 5x 1-15 zones. But at the later levels, there will be less zones, and the crowding there will be mitigated by varying leveling speeds. However, it does not address the problem of how many players before a DE not behave in a way that it was designed, or is fun. If that number is <20, then a lot of DE will be thus "broken", its not hard for 20 people to show up for any given DE. If the number is closer to 30 or 40, then it is probably not so bad.

Quite frankly, the leveling DE are casual PvE. They are easily picked up and easily abandoned, and they occur very often. Quite a few aspects of the mechanic leads to rather mindless play.

a) a big crowd means that enemy animation and particles are less visible.
B) a large group of players not communicating with each other and not knowing what roles others are playing.
c) participation is graded (Gold Silver Bronze) within a fixed time period (length of DE), so no one has time to listen to someone who wants to stop and discuss a strategy, and just spam DPS skills.
d) all of the above leads to self-preservation as a primary objective.

I hope the later level DE are better designed to cope with large numbers, and allow for planning.

#39 Maal

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:20 AM

Zergs in GW pve won't be that bad...

Think about pretty much all the other mmo release. Starting zones flooded, 100 players trying to gather 10 rat's tail from the 12 available rats that drop a tail 50% of the time.

It really can't be that worst.

#40 1Jammie1

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:38 AM

I'm not worried about the Zerg in low level area's because as the game gets older people will be more spread out, what i am worried about is when lots of people reach level 80, will level 80 area's become a Zerg?

#41 Lethality

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:49 AM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

During the BWE I was very troubled by how many of the Dynamic Events played out.

A mindless Zerg sitting on/near the enemy spawn point and spamming their skills mindlessly as soon as enemies spawn.
In the event of a boss, just throwing themselves at it, no matter how often they die.
No strategy or anything, they are back up and spamming soon after anyways.
This also seemed to work well for any Event that resolved around killing, which are the majority.

I really did not enjoy a single one of those Events and they are a large part of the game.
Sadly I also dont see much hope of this being solved as GW2 isnt instanced based,
giving them little control over the number of people taking part in one Event.

Is there still hope for those Events or are they lost to the Zerg?

My prediction is most will be pure zerg - because they have to be for anyone that stumbles across them, and that includes folks who do not communicate with others or follow direction.

Lots of people in here saying... "it's only beta."

sigh....

Edited by Lethality, 29 May 2012 - 01:49 PM.


#42 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:51 AM

Heh, if it weren't for the fact that beta's only going to last a few more months, I think "it's only beta" should seriously be against forum rules, much like elitism debates.  It's a way to dismiss any argument to help development at any time for any reason.
Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#43 Treesong

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:54 AM

You are not alone in your disapproval of zergs, Buzz Lightyear agrees with you.

#44 DuskWolf

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:07 PM

I fail to understand why this is bad.

To be honest, I'm absolutely sick and tired of MMORPGs having exclusive content for people with too much free time, just to convince them that they're some kind of "elite." And all the while forcing everyone to follow a script (running down a shopping list of things to do is not any kind of 'skill' that i know of).

In a dynamic event, tactics will develop organically against tough bosses. There won't be armchair generals whining about their shopping lists, no. But if there were, I wouldn't be playing this game.

#45 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:13 PM

If guild wars 1 Alliance battles are of any indication then there won't be 1 armchair general, there will be 20

Spoiler

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 29 May 2012 - 02:14 PM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#46 Linfang

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:16 PM

View PostFatalis, on 28 May 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

This is mainly a problem with having entire populations restricted to only a few zones.

There certainly will be far less zerging as the game progresses and people spread out.

and with that said we can /thread

#47 Castegyre

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:29 PM

The name of it escapes me, but by the time my Norn Guardian reached the mid teens DE at the ice fortress in the north end of the zone it seemed there was a lot less of people playing mindlessly and a lot more of people moving in and out trading aggro and being useful. Of course, there was less people in general and the ones that didn't play better were dead. People will learn if they want to or they will quit, pretty much like any other game I would think.  /shrug.

#48 Red_Falcon

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:30 PM

Not to be rude but it would be cool to take a minute to think before posting a whole thread about dead-brain obvious matters like this.
It's best to use Questions & Answers for basic questions, GD is for those who already have a good understanding of the game.

In case you haven't found the answer still, every MMO beta is zergy due to the fact the great majority of players are in the same zone, and usually only a limited amount of the real game's zones are available to play; once the game launches they'll be spread all over the map.

#49 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:39 PM

Well wouldn't they just set the homeworld population to max out faster during beta because they assume everyone will be in the beginning? I.e. wouldn't release be even worse than beta because they can't assume everyone is staying in the starting areas and will need time to spread out so they need a higher max pop?

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 29 May 2012 - 02:40 PM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#50 emorelix

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:32 PM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

During the BWE I was very troubled by how many of the Dynamic Events played out.

A mindless Zerg sitting on/near the enemy spawn point and spamming their skills mindlessly as soon as enemies spawn.
In the event of a boss, just throwing themselves at it, no matter how often they die.
No strategy or anything, they are back up and spamming soon after anyways.
This also seemed to work well for any Event that resolved around killing, which are the majority.

I really did not enjoy a single one of those Events and they are a large part of the game.
Sadly I also dont see much hope of this being solved as GW2 isnt instanced based,
giving them little control over the number of people taking part in one Event.

Is there still hope for those Events or are they lost to the Zerg?

just because u can zerg, doesn't mean its best.

I'm sure a group of 20 ppl who know what they are doing with their spec setup and gear and how to dodge and use their abilties at the right time/rotation, will complete an event more easily or even quicker then a group of 40 ppl who are just button mashing their cds..

#51 Jaehan

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:43 PM

Doubt that it'll be a zerg fest at 80, due to -
  • Scaling Dynamic Events
  • Level Downgrading
Regardless, some times more people help a lot. Even on Sorrow's Furnace, that was packed to all hell, there were maybe a hundred people I saw in Kessex Hills on the first day -- a lot of those Dynamic Events were difficult with only 5-10 people.

Add in to the fact that there's still two entire race regions we did not have access to, with their own complimenting 15-25 zones, the spread of population will be far more evenly distributed.

In total?
  • 5, 1 - 15 Zones
  • 4, 15 - 25 Zones
  • 3, 25 - 40 Zones
  • Etc
And with how large the zones are? Yeah, not worried about "Zerging" at all.

#52 ImTasty

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:00 PM

View PostRabidusIncendia, on 29 May 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Heh, if it weren't for the fact that beta's only going to last a few more months, I think "it's only beta" should seriously be against forum rules, much like elitism debates.  It's a way to dismiss any argument to help development at any time for any reason.

Where did you read that beta will only be for a few more months? Last time I checked there is still no release date yet and they can have 20 BWE events between now and december assuming the game will come out in december. I would like some new info

#53 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:01 PM

"a few" is a pretty big range ;)  And I'd elaborate on how many months max I think, but that's a different thread.
Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#54 mazut

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:50 PM

In small group was very interesting and enjoyable, to bad when many players are around it become bit zergy, indeed. I'm sure it won't be that crowded after release, when all move away from the starting zonez and spread around the world.There will be more cases after release where people are looking for more to come to help them, it will turn around ;)

Edited by mazut, 29 May 2012 - 07:53 PM.


#55 Azelle

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:57 PM

I saw a few zergs in the human starting area for the dynamic events, and it was super hilarous to see so many players dying like flies, heck we even wiped once LOL. It'S not because you can zerg that you will win, players learn it the hard way but it's all fine, I was happy to see the challenge and everyone of course was a noob with combat. You can read a lot ahead but when you are neck deep in action with centaurs swarming from all the sides it's not easy to trya  strategy. In a way it was realistic! Ambush should be just that.

#56 paulhaley2000

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:54 AM

View PostFatalis, on 28 May 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

This is mainly a problem with having entire populations restricted to only a few zones.

There certainly will be far less zerging as the game progresses and people spread out.
This.
Everyone started at lvl 1 and was confined to that area. They will spread and even out as the game ages. Beta isn't good rresentation of how de will play out come actual release

View PostRabidusIncendia, on 29 May 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Heh, if it weren't for the fact that beta's only going to last a few more months, I think "it's only beta" should seriously be against forum rules, much like elitism debates.  It's a way to dismiss any argument to help development at any time for any reason.
Why not. It's only beta makes sense about a bunch of things. In this case  beta caused players to be hoarded into few areas, which then no amount of scaling could fix. Itob applies here

#57 Aodan

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:57 AM

View PostFatalis, on 28 May 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

This is mainly a problem with having entire populations restricted to only a few zones.

There certainly will be far less zerging as the game progresses and people spread out.

View PostElend Venture, on 28 May 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

^What everyone else said above me.

I'll just add that most people during the BWE were going only to hearts and DEs that activated nearby. On the other hand, there were part of us that explored around a lot and I found few more events and stuff to do and there were not so much players around me.

Also 80% of the people your playing with are solo or in small groups. Why would you expect strats to be used, if you, yourself are only playing by yourself and adding to the zerg.

#58 Axiom

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:02 AM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

During the BWE I was very troubled by how many of the Dynamic Events played out.

A mindless Zerg sitting on/near the enemy spawn point and spamming their skills mindlessly as soon as enemies spawn.
In the event of a boss, just throwing themselves at it, no matter how often they die.
No strategy or anything, they are back up and spamming soon after anyways.
This also seemed to work well for any Event that resolved around killing, which are the majority.

I really did not enjoy a single one of those Events and they are a large part of the game.
Sadly I also dont see much hope of this being solved as GW2 isnt instanced based,
giving them little control over the number of people taking part in one Event.

Is there still hope for those Events or are they lost to the Zerg?

People will learn to play over time.

I found that most of the event failures I was a pert of involved a mindless zerg. Smaller groups do fine with DEs. Larger masses that play intelligently seem to have a slightly harder time at it due to scaling and the drag effect of a few bad players. A lot of bad players usually equals mass wipes.

On the events where the mindless zerg has mucked things up, about half the time people would smarten up after a few wipes and play smart enough to win through. (This usually was the result of players able to learn learning and those not able to learn giving up and going some where else).

Before I played in the BWE1, I had some concerns that the zerg may be the most efficient way of leveling the game. After BWE1, my concerns were laid to rest. Scaling to the number of players works and the more players participating usually doesn't make the event go any quicker and actually increases the level of challenge as the "human factor" adds more chaos to the encounter.

#59 Zefiris

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:26 AM

Zerging will, rather obviously, not be an issue later on. We already know that due to the events in later zones. Most people worried about "zergs" never got past the first, so their misperception is probably understandable.

View PostLethality, on 29 May 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

My prediction is most will be pure zerg - because they have to be for anyone that stumbles across them, and that includes folks who do not communicate with others or follow direction.

I look forward to you chainwiping on events because you can't figure out a way to beat them, and then blaming non-existant zergs for your failure.

#60 Ardeni

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:26 AM

Personally I totally agree with the OP that the zergs weren't enjoyable at all. Not only did they render tactics useless but they also made me lag so much that I couldn't even play the game in most of these situations. However, I'm not very worried about this since, as said, in the 1st BWE most people were playing level 1-20 characters. This will also be the situation in launch but I'm sure that it will get better over time when the amount of new characters created per day goes down.