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Guild Wars 2 = Zerg Wars 2?

Zerg Zerging Zerg Wars

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#61 DuskWolf

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:50 AM

View PostArdeni, on 30 May 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

Personally I totally agree with the OP that the zergs weren't enjoyable at all. Not only did they render tactics useless but they also made me lag so much that I couldn't even play the game in most of these situations. However, I'm not very worried about this since, as said, in the 1st BWE most people were playing level 1-20 characters. This will also be the situation in launch but I'm sure that it will get better over time when the amount of new characters created per day goes down.
See, this sounds like:

1. I'm angry at my computer for not being able to run Guild Wars 2 well.

...and...

2. I really, really hate other people, camaraderie, and having to share. I don't want to work with them and I die a lot because of it.

...or possibly...

3. I was a raid leader in that other game. I'm a control freak, I can't stand people not obeying my desires. Which is annoying because they're doing better than me.

I'm sorry, but that's just how it reads.

When I played the dynamic events, I had zero lag, no issues to speak of, and I watched people being clever. Cross profession combos, intelligent use of ground-based targeted heals, people bouncing mobs back and forth between them and using crowd control to keep the mobs on their toes rather than being able to stand there hitting away at someone, people backing out when they were in trouble, along with things like dodging out of attacks and such.

Were there people zerging? Yup. Did they die quickly? Yup. Did they continue to die quickly? Yup. And that's the thing, you're either going to learn how to play properly and with other people, or you're going to end up raging at and blaming the game for your inability to do so.

#62 ariod

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:04 AM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

During the BWE I was very troubled by how many of the Dynamic Events played out.

A mindless Zerg sitting on/near the enemy spawn point and spamming their skills mindlessly as soon as enemies spawn.
In the event of a boss, just throwing themselves at it, no matter how often they die.
No strategy or anything, they are back up and spamming soon after anyways.
This also seemed to work well for any Event that resolved around killing, which are the majority.

I really did not enjoy a single one of those Events and they are a large part of the game.
Sadly I also dont see much hope of this being solved as GW2 isnt instanced based,
giving them little control over the number of people taking part in one Event.

Is there still hope for those Events or are they lost to the Zerg?

ok.

1. this was a bwe. bwe's and launch will have a LOT of issues with zergs forming and walking through events. this is not a problem of game design, this shows the game has been tuned and balanced for post launch, which is exactly what we want. a couple weeks after launch things will settle down and it will be a LOT better. just be patient and understand the entire population of the game is confined to less than half of the world.

2. people throwing themselves into mobs and spamming skills is a matter of being new to and bad at the game. once the population spreads and events are challenging again they will figure out if they do that they die and will start to dodge and use strategy. all of your concerns are the result of overpopulation that will diminish after launch.

View PostDuskWolf, on 30 May 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

See, this sounds like:

1. I'm angry at my computer for not being able to run Guild Wars 2 well.

...and...

2. I really, really hate other people, camaraderie, and having to share. I don't want to work with them and I die a lot because of it.

...or possibly...

3. I was a raid leader in that other game. I'm a control freak, I can't stand people not obeying my desires. Which is annoying because they're doing better than me.

I'm sorry, but that's just how it reads.

When I played the dynamic events, I had zero lag, no issues to speak of, and I watched people being clever. Cross profession combos, intelligent use of ground-based targeted heals, people bouncing mobs back and forth between them and using crowd control to keep the mobs on their toes rather than being able to stand there hitting away at someone, people backing out when they were in trouble, along with things like dodging out of attacks and such.

Were there people zerging? Yup. Did they die quickly? Yup. Did they continue to die quickly? Yup. And that's the thing, you're either going to learn how to play properly and with other people, or you're going to end up raging at and blaming the game for your inability to do so.

agree with you. I had 0 lag as well. even in zergs  assaulting stonemist castle in WvW against sorrows furnace server. there was one spike for about 10 seconds then it cleared.

#63 Amadeuz

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:47 AM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

During the BWE I was very troubled by how many of the Dynamic Events played out.

A mindless Zerg sitting on/near the enemy spawn point and spamming their skills mindlessly as soon as enemies spawn.
In the event of a boss, just throwing themselves at it, no matter how often they die.
No strategy or anything, they are back up and spamming soon after anyways.
This also seemed to work well for any Event that resolved around killing, which are the majority.

I really did not enjoy a single one of those Events and they are a large part of the game.
Sadly I also dont see much hope of this being solved as GW2 isnt instanced based,
giving them little control over the number of people taking part in one Event.

Is there still hope for those Events or are they lost to the Zerg?

I have problem with Zergfest only low level zone, obviously these zones are overpopulated

however if you progress the game and enter to mid level zone, people are spreading out, then you will really enjoy the Dynamic Events. My problem is some of the events were difficult and require group of player to complete the event, while there is no people near the area where the event appeared, it was kind of upset that I had to skip the group events.

In addition, if OP want to enjoy GW2 as instanced based, you should go to the dungeons that limit 5 people per instanced dungeons.

Edited by amadeuz, 30 May 2012 - 09:50 AM.


#64 Corto81

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:17 AM

Dynamic events in MMOs DO NOT WORK.

It's either a pointless zergfest, or you lack enough people to complete the events in barren zones.

WAR showed, Rift showed, and GW2 will show it.

Edited by Neo Nugget, 01 June 2012 - 07:58 AM.


#65 Dizzard

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:56 AM

View Postomedon666, on 28 May 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

If you see a situation to dodge, skill-dance, weapon-swap, buff allies, debuff foes, and you like doing those things, do those things.  If your thing is to soak in the world, and range-autoattack the DE boss next to 10 or 20 other enraptured players doing the exact same thing, do that thing!

I intend to "soak in the world" and it's lore but that doesn't mean I don't want to improve my skills.

I don't see anything redeeming about mindlessly following a huge group around and steamrolling everything in your path.

Edited by Dizzard, 30 May 2012 - 11:57 AM.


#66 Killyox

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

During the BWE I was very troubled by how many of the Dynamic Events played out.

A mindless Zerg sitting on/near the enemy spawn point and spamming their skills mindlessly as soon as enemies spawn.
In the event of a boss, just throwing themselves at it, no matter how often they die.
No strategy or anything, they are back up and spamming soon after anyways.
This also seemed to work well for any Event that resolved around killing, which are the majority.

I really did not enjoy a single one of those Events and they are a large part of the game.
Sadly I also dont see much hope of this being solved as GW2 isnt instanced based,
giving them little control over the number of people taking part in one Event.

Is there still hope for those Events or are they lost to the Zerg?

I am sure Killing Ten Rats would be astep forward from DEs....right? right?!

#67 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:29 PM

No... NO! I have the perfect idea. 100 rats!! 10 times better.
Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#68 Kogaratsu

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:41 PM

View PostCorto81, on 30 May 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Dynamic events in MMOs DO NOT WORK.

It's either a pointless zergfest, or you lack enough people to complete the events in barren zones.

WAR showed, Rift showed, and GW2 will show it.

It's because between the two extremes you mentioned, there is a sweet spot of doing Dynamic Events with a group of 5-6 people, and it was fantastic.

Seriously, after 3-4 hours of beta play I felt like you: DE's were either zergfests or undoable because no one else was around. Once I grouped up with some friends and sought out some quieter areas, DE's were a lot of fun. We even went back to a DE I did previously in the Zerg, and the difference is astonishing.

The point is that the potential is there and that, IMO, DE's with appropriate group numbers are among the most fun you can have in this game. You just have to tweak your playstyle a bit, rally some guildies and avoid the zerg.

I'm not a fanboy, I believe in the DE system because I have experienced its succes and I believe it is reproducable, although it requires some effort.

#69 Sprinkles169

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 01:38 PM

View PostCorto81, on 30 May 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Dynamic events in MMOs DO NOT WORK.

It's either a pointless zergfest, or you lack enough people to complete the events in barren zones.

WAR showed, Rift showed, and GW2 will show it.

Did you ever think that maybe DE's are meant to be very challenging if not almost undoable without a group? Also, I laugh at these 'zerg fest' comments. The more people you have fighting at the same time, the more chaotic. That's just how things are. I don't feel like every boss mob I've fought in GW2 was the same exact experience either. You also have to consider we all only really got to try low level content.

Your arguments are for a boring,streamlined world and against a dynamic, alive world.

#70 Omedon

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:35 PM

View PostDizzard, on 30 May 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

I don't see anything redeeming about mindlessly following a huge group around and steamrolling everything in your path.

And that's the great thing about GW2 and DE participation: you don't have to see anything redeeming in it, the person doing it needs to like it, that's all that's required, and you can't stop them.  The game might throw some obstacles in their way, but that's the game's job, not yours :)

Edited by omedon666, 30 May 2012 - 04:40 PM.

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#71 Ardeni

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:07 PM

View PostDuskWolf, on 30 May 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

See, this sounds like:

1. I'm angry at my computer for not being able to run Guild Wars 2 well.

...and...

2. I really, really hate other people, camaraderie, and having to share. I don't want to work with them and I die a lot because of it.

...or possibly...

3. I was a raid leader in that other game. I'm a control freak, I can't stand people not obeying my desires. Which is annoying because they're doing better than me.

I'm sorry, but that's just how it reads.

I'd rather say it's

4. I dislike playing DEs if the monsters die so quickly that I don't even have time to enjoy the fight.

When the zergs were big enough, the dynamic events couldn't scale fast enough or simply were capped at some point and thus the zerg made the event very easy, which was the reason why having a lot (30+) people participating in the event made tactics useless. It was okay and awesome when there were about 15 people per event, though.

Ps. Reading my post that you quoted doesn't really enable any of the points 1-3 that you suggested. Actually, funnily enough, I am not angry about this situation at all. I didn't like the zergs, that's true, but that doesn't mean that I'm furious about them or something. One can dislike something without rage, you know. As for the contents of your suggestions, I don't really even feel like they're worth answering.

#72 Brynjar

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:36 PM

View PostCorto81, on 30 May 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

It's either a pointless zergfest, or you lack enough people to complete the events in barren zones.

Yes, that's why they scale. To avoid exactly that situation.

#73 98percentcute

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:37 AM

I think they will balance things out more and then zerging will just mean everyone dies if they don't use any strategy due to scaling.

#74 Apogee

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:03 AM

View PostTyrenBlood, on 28 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

But once people start reaching lvl 80 areas, they will be boxed in again.
Every day more players will arrive there and most will want to play that content.
That could lead to the exact same problem.
Zerg mindlessly zerging.

I'm not so sure about that. Sure a player will spend a lot of their time in the level 80 zone at first, but once they've experienced all the content in the zone...
  • A level 80 character will have all the dungeons available to them and that is were the prestigious equipment is to be had at. So a high percentage of level 80 characters will be in instanced dungeons than the lower levels.
  • Characters are auto scaled down to the zone level so in actuality a level 80 character has the entire world to explore. ANet has said that they plan to add new dynamic events secretly all over the world, so going back to lower level zones would still have that exploration feel to them.
  • Higher level players are more likely to try WvW or sPvP. WvW has NPC mobs so it could be treated as the 80+ PvE if you want
  • Some level 80 characters will just quit the game for a while
Basically the level 80 characters will be more spread out and not all concentrated in the one level 80 zone.

#75 Starcaller Welinos

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:06 PM

What else do you expect?