175 replies to this topic

[God Of Fissures]

Nexon is one of the worst video game companies that has ever existed.  There is ZERO quality control and customer service is non-existent.  This SUCKS.

[Prokofiova]

This is a problem.  We'll see the cash shop take a different long-term direction.  It'll start with Mike O'Brien (and some other people) leaving ArenaNet to start a new company.

[Elaithe]

krogg, on 08 June 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Again, I doubt GW2 is the sole reason or even the main reason why Nexon made such a huge move. Why spend roughly $735 million to own 15% of a AAA title when that is more than enough funds to create a AAA title of your own with your preferred business model.

Corporations only make big investments like this when:

1. They believe the company is undervalued and can enact a change in strategy or leadership within the company to raise it's stock price. Which I doubt since NCSoft Corp already trades for 268,000 Korean won.

2. The company wants to move into a profitable niche within the industry a lot quicker than doing a total overhaul of its own product offerings. Which may also cause alienation of their current customer base. Which I doubt since Nexon and NCSoft already seem to occupy the same space in free to play MMO models.

3. The corporation realizes that their own niche within the industry is separating into two seperate niches and want to seize control of both niches early to maintain overall market share. This is what I think is the most probable cause. I think we are starting to see the free to play space seperate into two distinct types. One where people don't mind the pay to win model as offered by Nexon and one that has a more egalitarian approach to game design where cash purchases do not affect a player's ability to compete in the game. Both serve a section of the market and having control over both keeps Nexon in an undiminished position within the industry as a whole.

TL;DR: GW2's cash shop is probably not going to be affected.

I agree completely, I was just speaking strictly in respect to GW2 and Anet.

[Itharius]

It's okay guys. I can speak like twenty words of Korean, so we'll just petition our new Korean overlords if they make us pay microtransactions to log into the game.

[WickedSick11]

cash shop might not be affected but wat about the good Arena net's service to customers; i afraid that Nexon will infected Anet become a like the rest greedy company.

[krogg]

WickedSick11, on 08 June 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

cash shop might not be affected but wat about the good Arena net's service to customers; i afraid that Nexon will infected Anet become a like the rest greedy company.

If you are talking about expansions, updates, and bug fixes to the game, I don't think Nexon will tamper with ArenaNet's schedule at all.

If you are talking about customer support like in-game customer support, I believe ArenaNet has absolutely no involvement in that and is managed by NCSoft as a whole..

[Geikamir]

NCsoft was already stretching out the games cash shop to it's limits. This will likely make the already occurring trends to the cash shop far far worse.

[shakey2]

WickedSick11, on 08 June 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

cash shop might not be affected but wat about the good Arena net's service to customers; i afraid that Nexon will infected Anet become a like the rest greedy company.

Like I said before in my earlier post, Anet team cares too much for their game to allow that to happen.

[Menehune]

krogg, on 08 June 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Darkheron, on 08 June 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

The only thing I would say is that a 15% investment is pretty standard for activist investors who think a company is undervalued and wish to push through board changes. Not sure that is anything GW2 has to worry about directly, but could signal that Nexon will push for some change in leadership to change the direction of NCSoft as a whole.

Very accurate post here.

Nexon isn't doing this to make a quick buck by flipping stocks. NCsoft Corp currently trades at 268,000.00krw or 228.33 dollars a share. That amounts to a ~$735 million investment. Even if they expected NCSoft's stocks to skyrocket because of a single offering in GW2, you could conceivably still make that projected amount through a diversified portfolio with a greatly reduced level of risk. Not putting all your eggs in one basket is the saying I believe.

At 15% ownership, in any major corporation, you are considered a major shareholder. Also note that they are the largest shareholder now. So, anyone claiming "only 15%" should reassess their perception of corporate strategy. 15% is a big move in the corporate world. This is a vested interest and one that is usually only taken to alter corporate strategy and leadership. So, chances are they're there to stay.

I doubt this has anything to do directly with GW2, however, for any feeling a sense of consternation. At ~$735 million, they could have just made their own game with GW2's design and their preferred business model. This investment should have more to do with NCSoft's entire line of offerings. So, don't fret too much.

I would have replied in a similar manner, but then I got to thinking. When is the next NCsoft shareholder meeting, what's the ex date for voting and how many board positions would be up for (re)election? I can't help but to think that a 15% stake can be enough to get the shareholder's own candidates elected to the board. Get enough board members in your pocket and you can totally overturn company policies. Yeah, so eventually NCsoft management could be fired, new management fires Mike O'Brien, new ArenaNet president institutes new policies ...

I hate being negative, but this is causing me to fret some.

[el hefe]

Linfang, on 08 June 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

I'm starting a collection jar for the players to be the largest stock holder. I put $1.23 US into the jar, cmon folks, lets get this rolling.

just 687 million more and you can own as much as nexon.

also why would the shareholders sell with B&S and gw2 on the horizon?

Menehune, on 08 June 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

I would have replied in a similar manner, but then I got to thinking. When is the next NCsoft shareholder meeting, what's the ex date for voting and how many board positions would be up for (re)election? I can't help but to think that a 15% stake can be enough to get the shareholder's own candidates elected to the board. Get enough board members in your pocket and you can totally overturn company policies. Yeah, so eventually NCsoft management could be fired, new management fires Mike O'Brien, new ArenaNet president institutes new policies ...

I hate being negative, but this is causing me to fret some.

i wouldn't worry.  just because they are the largest doesn't mean they are the only one who gets to vote on decisions.

[krogg]

el hefe, on 08 June 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

just 687 million more and you can own as much as nexon.

also why would the shareholders sell with B&S and gw2 on the horizon?



i wouldn't worry.  just because they are the largest doesn't mean they are the only one who gets to vote on decisions.

All stock exchanges have specialists on the floor to make sure that there are always stocks available for sale. If there is a shortage in stock the price increases, effectively reducing the amount that can be bought. Generally, every stock is for sale at the right price.

[Menehune]

el hefe, on 08 June 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

i wouldn't worry.  just because they are the largest doesn't mean they are the only one who gets to vote on decisions.

Consider if the shareholders were split 55/45 in favor of current board members and company policies. Shareholders that sold their share were in the pro camp. Now Nexon comes and tips the balance to 40/60 against.

[NeHoMaR]

What's the problem with Nexus? as far as I know they have extremely popular games. Not even NCSoft interfere in GW2 development. That companies are like "banks", they gives money in exchange of more money.

[el hefe]

Menehune, on 08 June 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Consider if the shareholders were split 55/45 in favor of current board members and company policies. Shareholders that sold their share were in the pro camp. Now Nexon comes and tips the balance to 40/60 against.

you could  "What if" yourself to death.  i'm merely trying to prevent you from stroking out over a non-issue at this point.  whatever happens will completly be out of our hands.  plus the beta starts in 1.5 hours.  think happy thoughts.  

[Paint]

So this is what they meant by "The cash shop is under new management"

LOL

[Green Book]

Who knows, maybe nexon bought in so they could learn a thing or two.  They could use a good lesson in network and  account security from NcSoft.

[krogg]

Menehune, on 08 June 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

I would have replied in a similar manner, but then I got to thinking. When is the next NCsoft shareholder meeting, what's the ex date for voting and how many board positions would be up for (re)election? I can't help but to think that a 15% stake can be enough to get the shareholder's own candidates elected to the board. Get enough board members in your pocket and you can totally overturn company policies. Yeah, so eventually NCsoft management could be fired, new management fires Mike O'Brien, new ArenaNet president institutes new policies ...

I hate being negative, but this is causing me to fret some.

Although you could be absolutely right (I don't have the exact dates for your questions at the moment btw) I can tell you that this is highly unlikely. You can be sure Nexus will have members on the Board of Directors for oversight but I doubt they'll restructure the company in any way. i.e. CEO, COO, CFO changes

I obviously can't be entirely sure but I believe this is a lot less about meddling and a lot more about market share. If Nexus has competent strategists, which I believe they do, they'll know that it is foolish to force your company's strategy upon a market and much wiser to adapt said strategy to a changing market.

Edited by krogg, 08 June 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[Menehune]

el hefe, on 08 June 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

you could  "What if" yourself to death.  i'm merely trying to prevent you from stroking out over a non-issue at this point.  whatever happens will completly be out of our hands.  plus the beta starts in 1.5 hours.  think happy thoughts.  

I appreciate the sentiment and yeah it's a what if that may never come to pass. Still, it's a possibility I wanted to point out and no I'm not stroking out over it.

Anyway, the servers are already up and I'm outa here. Tyria, here I come!

[Wothan]

Here comes IP blocking and p2w shops

[Minttunator]

Wothan, on 09 June 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Here comes IP blocking and p2w shops

Considering GW2 already has region locking and a borderline P2W cash shop, I'm not sure what the big deal is. Many of the fans (i.e. most of the posters on this forum) seem to be perfectly happy with the way NCsoft is handling things, so I'm sure Nexon having a say in it won't make it much worse.

Quinci, on 08 June 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Atlantica is from nDoors. Nexon bought it and trashed it.

I think Atlantica was trashed long before Nexon bought it (for reference: the level 130 cap increase and IM mercs were the last straw for me, personally) - although I do agree that Nexon haven't improved it any.

[HawkofStorms]

Generally speaking, any time a corporate voting block has greater then 10% of a company's stock, they are considered a major owner and usually get representation on the board of directors and quite a bit of influence on votes because the majority of privately held votes end up being voted by proxy.  Ie, the average person who owns stock will get a letter in the mail telling them to fill this out and mail it back in so their vote can get counted.  Most people don't do that.  That's why that 15% of Nexon is such a big deal.  They will always vote, and always vote as a block.  And a large portion of the voters won't vote at all.

[CrunkJuice2]

meh

im more concerned about whats going to happen to Lineage 2 godess of destruction then i am with guild wars 2 because of the nexon ncsoft thing

Edited by CrunkJuice2, 09 June 2012 - 08:22 PM.

[Arch Angel]

Not excited about this.

I actually.... am not going to buy GW2 now (I held off, now I'm glad).

Nexon = Pay to Win.

ZERO doubt about that in my mind.

Now they hold the large value of 15% stocks? THAT IS A CATASTROPHY. I seriously question the people who are saying "oho no big deal oho derp derp herp herp lerp lerp".

They invested greatly into NCsoft now because NCsoft is releasing a thus far MASSIVELY SUCCESSFUL GAME... with what model?

Oh? What model was it?

SAY IT.

-> GW2 is coming with a CASH SHOP in it.


AKA their main playing ground. Their niche, their not-so-humble-abode, their creme de le creme. What they've done for years.


So telling me they won't make it buy to win is a henious joke to me; and none of us will even know until it is a month or two into release THEN they begin to let the items trickle down and your GW2 is now B2W.

[Lord Bazaah]

Yes, you will feel an impact from this. Yes Nexon isn't the greatest company the world. Nexon does, however made ****tons of money. Its model is buy a great F2P game and make money off of an imbalanced, but not as terrible as PW cash shop. The key difference here is that GW2 is a B2P game, $60 up front. This changes the dynamic greatly. Whether Nexon is just trying to get experience with this model, or just wanting a piece of the pie is really debatable at this point. In either case they won't mess with GW2 -- you don't try and teach your teacher/you don't shoot your golden goose. This is reinforced by the fact that a quick google search will tell that the founders of this company (Arenanet) have no qualms leaving a successful company and starting their own. Furthermore even if all of the above is wrong, they still won't change GW2 as much as they did their other games. Because $60 upfront.

Edited by Lord Bazaah, 10 June 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[Leger]

Killyox, on 08 June 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

15% share is A LOT in such global companies. You dont need 51% to control companies. In a lot of cases it's exactly 15-20% becaus with many minor shareholders you have the biggest say anyways.

Pretty much but I wouldn't be too concerned about this.

[StormDragonZ]

shakey2, on 08 June 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

Like I said before in my earlier post, Anet team cares too much for their game to allow that to happen.

Money talks. GW2 could make all the money GW1 brought in the first 4 years within one year. As long as you got what it takes to pay the bills, ArenaNet could turn into green-eyed monsters in a matter of weeks.

I'm not saying ANet are secretly cold-hearted, but if they cared too much for their game, they wouldn't put themselves in a situation to make people doubt them to begin with.

[Life_Infusion]

Quinci, on 08 June 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Atlantica is from nDoors. Nexon bought it and trashed it.

Totally agree.

I beta-ed Atlantica and the community was a lot better than after release. In addition, now the cash shop sells much more than convenience items.  They consistently added things that were "for convenience only" while making inconveniences rampant for those that did not buy the item mall stuff.

It started off with something like http://atlantica.nex...emmall/Detail/8

Quote

- Teleportation License (30 days)
- Patrol License (30 days)
- Health Check License (30 days)
- Auto-Search License (30 days)
- Auto-Battle License (30 days)

It's about $1 (USD) to 1,000NX so it's an artificial $15/month subscription since the licenses aren't tradable ingame. That's on top of all the non-cosmetic things you can buy from the item mall such as XP boosts (see http://atlantica.nex...mall/Detail/133 ; http://atlantica.nex...mall/Detail/101). That's why I'm a bit apprehensive about the XP boost in the cashshop for GW2 also.

The only good thing is that Nexon allows for pay by mobile, and cash (game cards). They literally increase the layering between you and your money to make people buy more NX money (nexon currency, akin to GW2's gems).

Quote

Layering—The Proxy Perception

Just as Las Vegas has learned that people will toss chips around far more liberally than cash, the credit card industry knows very well that people treat those little plastic rectangles differently than actual money. Credit cards, debit cards, and electronic bank statements are quick and convenient, but these automated forms of payment create a psychological disconnect that makes money more opaque to consumers. In behavioral finance, the concept is known as “layering”—a term borrowed from money-laundering that refers to the layers of separation from the place where the money was originally earned. The thicker the layers, the greater the opportunity for clients to make poor financial decisions.

The physical proxy of the check or credit card creates one layer; we are further removed from our money by the expediency and opaqueness of the entire transaction process at most retail outlets. Signatures are seldom required when we use credit or debit cards, and quite often, we are not even offered a receipt for our purchases.

Marketers understand consumer psychology and the layering effect just as well as behavioral finance experts, and they are continually introducing new ways to induce customers to give in to impulse spending. The cruise industry is a perfect example—it does a marvelous job of arranging and masking various combinations of expenditures to make it nearly impossible to discern how much any given item or activity actually costs. Perhaps the most effective concept is “ship credit”—you pay for it in advance of the cruise so that you have already parted with your money before you even leave the shore. It is possible to get unspent funds back at the end of the cruise, but the process is often so complicated that it becomes easier to simply spend the credit you originally purchased. From a psychological standpoint, you have already re-categorized the money as something other than your own.

- http://www.fpanet.or...rementPlanning/


I'd be wary about putting in real credit card information on their site too. I wouldn't give anything more than a name and address. As far as I know, Nexon isn't very good about data security.

See:
http://kotaku.com/58...an-hack-attacks
http://consumerist.c...ke-it-good.html
http://massively.joy...malicious-acti/

Tiki, on 08 June 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I doubt that anet will be bullied into having ridiculous items in the cash shop, the great community of GW2 will not allow it plus I really don't see Mike O'Brien being bullied into doing something that will hurt the game in the long run, I see this as an opportunity for maybe more funding and grow.

Since GW2 is largely "Buy upfront", they will take the money and run with it. You really have little say in it compared to the largest shareholders who front the money for the servers.

Kymeric, on 08 June 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Do you have experience with MMORPGs that have a ridiculous cash shop?  They aren't really concerned about the community "allowing" anything.  These games can have quite a player turnover.  A generation of players comes in, sinks money into the game, realizes that they are spending more than they would on a subscription game, then leaves only to be replaced by new players.  This can go on quite a while, and the company makes a tidy profit the whole time.  I've seen it happen.  I've seen people join a game, defending it as not so P2W to the population that is on its way out.  Then, when you check in on the forums six months later, some of those same defenders are on their way out of the game, arguing with a new crop who are defending it.

As for Mike O'Brien, how much share does he own of ANet, and how much of NCSoft?  What obligations does he have to NCSoft for the funding they have provided?  Founder/Presidents of companies aren't immune to the whims of major stockholders.

Not that the OP makes me worried about doom for GW2 at all.  I'm just questioning some of the reasoning used to say this won't have an impact.

This.

Edited by Life_Infusion, 10 June 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Warmaster Bacon]

o god please leave arenanet do their own thing like NcSoft does.

[Matsy]

^ NCsoft does not leave them alone, they are the reason for the borderline P2W cash shop most likely.

[Inraged Twitch]

as long as ANET holds 51% of there own stock Nexon can't do shit without consulting ANET/NCSOFT.  Plus NCSOFT has put WAY to much money into gw2 development if something seriously goes wrong with the game they will buy out nexon and start this whole thing over again.