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Are you unhappy with the Dye changes?

dye

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#1 Heathenite

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:53 PM

To be more specific, are you unhappy with dyes being character bound rather than account bound as per Kristen Perry's blog post?

For anyone unable to see the link it's basically this;


"Once you unlock the color, it will be available across your entire account, not just the individual character."



That blog post is 2 years old. Two Years. From that point until 3 days ago (Linky Winky) we (their potential customers) had no reason to believe that dyes would not be account bound.

Now, if your unhappy with this I urge you to post on the ANet official forums. There's no point in complaining here to random joe. Let ANet/NCsoft know what you think.



Thanks :)



Here's that thread


ps: the spoiler below is a copy paste of the link above if the beta forums get removed:

Spoiler

Edited by Heathenite, 11 June 2012 - 10:01 PM.


#2 Ripperjack

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:58 PM

View PostHeathenite, on 11 June 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Now, if your unhappy with this I urge you to post on the ANet official forums. There's no point in complaining here to random joe. Let ANet/NCsoft know what you think.

Already did, but I doubt it will get changed back. The lure of the almighty dollar, is a powerful one!

Edited by Ripperjack, 11 June 2012 - 09:58 PM.


#3 HawkofStorms

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:14 PM

Eh, I'm kinda indifferent.  I'm just happy they got rid of the 24 hours to grow dye thing.  As somebody who had no intention to ever buy dye (either from the store or in the marketplace), this system is better then the one from BWE1 because at least now I'll be able to unlock all the dyes that I find from drops.

Edited by HawkofStorms, 11 June 2012 - 10:14 PM.


#4 RGSG99

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:21 PM

I'm unhappy with it. I love dyes and cosmetic items. I would prefer them to still be account bound.

Edited by RGSG99, 11 June 2012 - 10:24 PM.


#5 Heathenite

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:23 PM

Reply to: HawkofStorms

Now imagine you play your main for a minimal 1 month, that's not that long in MMO terms. In that month say you had on average 1 dye a day. In the current system duplicate dyes are quite frequent. I myself have opened a 7 dye pack from the store and got 2 of the same dye in that pack, basically making it a 6 dye pack. That's how bad dupes are at the minute. What makes it worse is you can't even sell those dyes on the trading post. :/

Edited by Heathenite, 11 June 2012 - 10:25 PM.


#6 white_migraine

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:25 PM

I could have sworn that during the demo, the few dyes I got as drops, said that they were account wide; however, upon applying it they were still character bound, so maybe it is just a bug after all.

EDIT: I wish we could get an official statement on the matter, doesn't seem like it's that much to ask, they seemed to ignore it on the reddit ama as well. Oops, I guess we did get an official statement... wow what jerks, man, not a big deal, but jerks, man.

Edited by white_migraine, 11 June 2012 - 10:27 PM.


#7 SchurgeMarauder

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:26 PM

I've no issue with the dyes being character-bound. Arena-Net needs to make their money somehow.

#8 pamelakd

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:26 PM

It's account BOUND (i'e not tradable) not account unlocked.

#9 Alaroxr

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:27 PM

I spent 1000ish gems, got 14 dye packs, unlocked ~80 dyes.

It's really not that big of a deal.

Edited by Alaroxr, 11 June 2012 - 10:27 PM.


#10 HawkofStorms

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:27 PM

View PostHeathenite, on 11 June 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Reply to: HawkofStorms

Now imagine you play your main for a minimal 1 month, that's not that long in MMO terms. In that month say you had on average 1 dye a day. In the current system duplicate dyes are quite frequent. I myself have opened a 7 dye pack from the store and got 2 of the same dye in that pack, basically making it a 6 dye pack. That's how bad dupes are at the minute. What makes it worse is you can't even sell those dyes on the trading post. :/

Except you get way more then 1 dye a day.  I got like 6 this weekend.  If they had kept the old system I literally would have ended up with a stockpile of hundreds of dye seeds that I could never use fast enough.

As for repeats, that's just a gamblers fallacy (and the fact that common dyes are more common then rare ones).

#11 Heathenite

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:28 PM

View Postwhite_migraine, on 11 June 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

EDIT: I wish we could get an official statement on the matter, doesn't seem like it's that much to ask, they seemed to ignore it on the reddit ama as well.

Read my spoiler in the opening post, or click the (Linky Winky) link if you can access the official beta forums, that's your official answer right there.

#12 Reiden221

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:28 PM

Actually we knew from BWE1 that dyes were not account wide.  Would I rather they were account wide, sure, but I'm not going to go bat **** crazy over something as simple and 100% cosmetic as this is.

From BWE2 on a new character, I finished the weekend having unlocked around 25 colors.  I purchased 2 dye packs with the gems i was given, the rest i earned through the chests in sPvP.  I had 1 duplicate.

#13 Heathenite

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:35 PM

Hawk, I've no problem with the current droprate, tbh it's better than I expected. What I do have a problem with is spending $77.50 when pre-purchases became availiable (equivilent of £49.99) on a game on the understanding that dyes would be account bound, only to find out 3 days ago that they'd changed their mind.

What makes this worse is I was entirely willing to spend actual money in their cash shop for account tied dyes once or twice a week, mainly due to the fact that I might just fancy playing more than one character and want the extra money I spend on my account to actually affect my account. In it's current iteration I won't spend a single penny unfortunately, it just isn't worth it :(

#14 Cracken

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:36 PM

No. I couldn't care less tbh. I mean, it's just a effin dye. I'm not going to die. See what I did there?

#15 Heathenite

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:37 PM

View PostZrevyx, on 11 June 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Actually we knew from BWE1 that dyes were not account wide.

No we didn't, they didn't tell us either way if it was intentional or not. Probably because they wanted more buyers in BWE2

#16 Georgie

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:38 PM

Honestly, I'm not that upset.  In fact, I'm more unhappy that we're not using the colourful seed / market trading system.

And even then, I'm not really that bummed.

But, I do think other people with nothing else to do have at least a legitimate claim to whine / complain / make a big deal out of this.  Keyword legitimate.

#17 Heathenite

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:39 PM

Either way, if you're not bothered so be it. Dyes are not for everyone. When you see how little the variation in armour sets is you might change you mind, but as of now if you're not too bothered fair enough. If you are though, let the devs know :)

#18 Xiondar

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:40 PM

I got 32 dyes this weekend... problem officer? Without the need the of 24 hour dye merchant, you can just grind dyes until you drop. I have no problem with it now since the changes to this BWE; Anet met us halfway and at least gave us the option to farm them until our fingers fall off or buy random dyes from the shop. If you get duplicates... that's the gamble of getting "Random Assortment of Dyes.".

#19 christiansoldier

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:42 PM

I would have preferred an account wide dye system but I can accept a character based one.  If we try to hold them to every bit of info years before a game release it will result in companies sharing no information.

#20 Sitriel

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:43 PM

With the current drop rate and the pesky 24-hour-waiting time removed I am fine with colors being character-based.

#21 Matsy

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:49 PM

I got 7 dyes as drops, not going to buy any.

#22 white_migraine

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:49 PM

you guys got some insane dye drop rates, I got 3-4, and thank you, I did misread, accound bound =/= account unlocked... that is a big deal to me because I am a completionist and I'm an altoholic, I have at least 1 of most dudes, ie. marhan grotto exclusive, sets of armors in gw1 except for a few, I have gwamm on 2 characters, and all of first-fourth minipets. and I'm horribly unlucky. I won't be able to max out 400 dyes on many characters, if more than one. I got 1 dye seed per day in bwe1 and 1 dye a day in bwe2. and as it stands, I sure as heck won't be paying for more character slots with character only unlocking of dyes, nor do I believe that I will be using the cash shop period, so I guess at least this system saves me money.

#23 Kurosov

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:50 PM

View PostHeathenite, on 11 June 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Hawk, I've no problem with the current droprate, tbh it's better than I expected. What I do have a problem with is spending $77.50 when pre-purchases became availiable (equivilent of £49.99) on a game on the understanding that dyes would be account bound, only to find out 3 days ago that they'd changed their mind.

What makes this worse is I was entirely willing to spend actual money in their cash shop for account tied dyes once or twice a week, mainly due to the fact that I might just fancy playing more than one character and want the extra money I spend on my account to actually affect my account. In it's current iteration I won't spend a single penny unfortunately, it just isn't worth it :(

There are many things that have changed since announcement. The game is still in development and you should expect things to change.

There will likely be thing announced that get changed post release. Using the "i paid cash under the assumption..." excuse for every little thing is getting old. Too many threads saying the same thing.

#24 paulhaley2000

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:53 PM

Small price to pay for the game not having a sub.they gotta have something to make money off,of in the cash shop

#25 Spatzimaus

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:16 PM

View PostHawkofStorms, on 11 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Except you get way more then 1 dye a day.  I got like 6 this weekend.

Pfft.  I got about 15 over this BWE.  It became a running joke among my guild, most of whom averaged maybe 2-3 per day; I'd tell them whenever I got a new one.  In ONE FIGHT I got four dyes, from six mobs, and a fight a few minutes later added another two.

One thing is that for obvious reasons, dyes only drop in PvE.  Most of my friends did far more PvP than I did, either structured or WvWvW, so that dropped their effective rates quite a bit.  But even so, the drop rate is far better than one per day, which was the limitation under the old system sans purchases in the cash shop.

Given that sort of rate, it shouldn't take long at all before my primary character has every dye.

Quote

As for repeats, that's just a gamblers fallacy (and the fact that common dyes are more common then rare ones).

True, but I think their distribution of rarity needs a bit of work.  Out of those 15 I got this weekend, five were duplicates of others, two of which were uncommons.  If there are so few common dyes that duplication happens this quickly, then they need to make more dyes common and fewer of them rare.

Also, the big problem is that you can't know what color the dye will be unless you bind it to your account, at which point the item becomes useless if it's not a color you need.  So let's take a hypothetical situation down the road: out of 100 colors, Bob has 99, missing only one rare dye.  He wants to get that last color, but what can he do?
> If he keeps hoping for it from random drops, then he'll keep opening every dye he sees.  But practically all of those will be duplicates of one he already has; he can give them to one of his other characters, but after a while even that will be pointless, especially on common colors, and he'll have to just start deleting dyes.
> He can't purchase individual colors from the trading post, because opened dyes are account-bound.  Likewise, a friend who has a spare dye of that color can't give it to him.
> He can buy dye packs from the cash shop, but those are just as likely to give him duplicates.

So to me, at least one of the following changes needs to be made:
1> Even if you don't list an explicit color, an unbound dye should at least say what rarity and/or color set it contains.  That way, someone trying for a specific color can at least narrow down his search among tradeable (un-revealed) dyes to be more likely to get the one he wants.
2> The cash shop dyes should be explicitly coded to never give duplicates of a color you already have.  That way, when someone has 95% of the dyes, they can use this option to guarantee getting the last few they need, instead of playing the lottery on normal dyes.
3> Allow some sort of process to turn revealed (and therefore useless if duplicate) dyes into a transferrable item, for sale on the trading post or mailing to a friend.  For instance, while normal dyes are permanent and reusable, the tradeable version could be one-shot, as in, you have one minute to put this color in whatever items you want, at which point that color is no longer an option.  For people who really want one color for their character, this'd be a good intermediate step before getting the actual dye for yourself.

Also, we need more information.  Right now there's no way to know how many colors you're still missing within each set and/or rarity, so you have no way to know how likely it'll be to get duplicates with your next dye.  The last four dyes I opened were all duplicates; was that just a ridiculously unlikely fluke, or was I starting to run out of colors?  (Obviously in this case it was a fluke, but come release you'll have the same thing start to happen for real once you have 40 or 50 colors, and it'd be nice to know when to expect that.)

#26 skullmount4

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:22 PM

View Postpaulhaley2000, on 11 June 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Small price to pay for the game not having a sub.they gotta have something to make money off,of in the cash shop
Even with them being account wide they were probably going to get more people to buy them.  Now that they took a step backwards and make them character based, I'm not sure as many people will want to buy them (sure those that are buy will buy more, just so they can try to get the one they want).  There are other things that will make more money for them than buying dyes (boosts/mystic keys will probably sell more). Making them non trade-able while character based also has put a damper on the system.
I really dislike the dyes now just because it will take soooooo long to either get all the dyes per character(s) or get that one that you want.  Hopefully they take note of that thread (other than the one dev post), and realize alot of people want it changed.



View PostSpatzimaus, on 11 June 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

Pfft.  I got about 15 over this BWE.  It became a running joke among my guild, most of whom averaged maybe 2-3 per day; I'd tell them whenever I got a new one.  In ONE FIGHT I got four dyes, from six mobs, and a fight a few minutes later added another two.

One thing is that for obvious reasons, dyes only drop in PvE.  Most of my friends did far more PvP than I did, either structured or WvWvW, so that dropped their effective rates quite a bit.  But even so, the drop rate is far better than one per day, which was the limitation under the old system sans purchases in the cash shop.

Given that sort of rate, it shouldn't take long at all before my primary character has every dye.
You must have been lucky.  I'm sure I didn't get even 5 of them the whole weekend (I played about 60-75% of the weekend).  Even at that rate, its gonna take a long time, especially since they are random, and not just the ones we need (duplicates can be given).

Edited by skullmount4, 11 June 2012 - 11:24 PM.


#27 Geikamir

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:25 PM

Yes, I'm pretty unhappy about it.

Edited by Geikamir, 11 June 2012 - 11:25 PM.


#28 Kyln

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:57 PM

What?

First there were people raging over the dye-seed system and now they rage over this one?

At this point Anet would be better off getting rid of dyes as drops completely. Give all options to all characters at creation or sell account-wide unlocks per dye in the Gem Shop and be done with it.

#29 Arewn

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:05 AM

So long as they remove duplicate dyes, I'm fine with it.
Perhaps a more specific way to get dyes would be nice to, for example buying by color spectrum and getting a random color within that spectrum, and similarly have different color dye seeds which have a chance of being made into a random color from that seed's spectrum.

#30 Lunarhawk

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:07 AM

I'd rather they be account based
even if you get them "faster" without having to wait 24hrs now, there's still 400 of them and the possibility to get duplicates.

The only way it would become acceptable is if it became possible to buy/sell already identified ones on the AH.





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