91 replies to this topic

[Domynic]

Raege, on 17 September 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

Is it just me or does the Statue of Dwayna (in her temple) in Orr look like a Largos? Iirc it even looked like this picture which is labeled Orrian Largos by the artist himself (that picture is sadly not from the original source as I cannot remember the name of the artist :c).

It does. Seeing as how the first and only Largos I saw at that point was at... That Kodan place in the mid-level zone, you can imagine my surprise when I saw that both the statue of Dwayna and her Priestess thingum whatever both looked the same.

Alright, I wasn't that surprised. I dismissed to the reuse of resources.

[Raege]

Well when I saw it I just got really exited

I mean, come on, it's human god and the statue made by a man who had acctually seen the gods, not just their avatars made her a Largos. The possibility of Dwayna having been a Largos is just fascinating.

[Domynic]

Vermoth, the dude who won't show you his karma gear until you kill godsdamn everything, wonders if she's supposed to look like that or if the corruption... corrupted her image. At least he mentions the Priestess'/Acolyte's attire when you talk to him. Might be worth noting.

I don't know why it would be corrupted to look like a largos though.

Speaking of attire. Is it just me or do Orrians love their hats? Malchor's hat. Cloche/bell hats on some of the noblewomen. Jester hats...

I just remembered I had some (not quite excellent) screenshots of both of them:

Edited by Domynic, 17 September 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Reclaimer]

If these became a player race and had their models touched upon to more resemble that concept art, I would abandon my current main for one in a heartbeat and never look back. I love the Predator vibe, their deep sea origins, and their House-divided sport killer culture enough to level 1 to 80 all over again. I think, too, out of all the other options, they're easily the most likely to become a new player race.

Maybe we can all agree that tengu will be the first race added, because there's so much build up for them to join the alliance and hints dropped by the developers to imply their inevitable addition. But what will follow after our feathered friends? People seem fond of the hylek, but their status as a (primitive) minor race and involvement in the personal story cinches the deal against them. That's not even getting into the issues that would show up with customization (see: gender differentiation and hair) and adapting world armor to vaguely fit their body styles.

Kodan kind of sort of seem a likely candidate, but I really feel like they're going to be the furbolgs of this game. That is, a number of people will clamor for them, but they'll simply never quite make it. They share a lot of issues with hylek, such as customization (again, no hair) and gender identification. World armor would work about as well as it does on charr, but overall I don't see them being a strong contender for player race status. We already have the norn, but I know very well they're far from the same thing.

On the other hand, largos are depicted as having hair, sexual dimorphism, and a unique silhouette that's still human enough to easily allow any world armor to fit it. Beside that, I have to admit I would be pretty disappointed if every new player race were just a different anthropomorphic beast. Cats, birds, bears... I feel like ArenaNet can be more creative than that, as evidenced by the likes of the sylvari. Additionally, the few largos you can meet in-game drop some hints about their society - a society that seems well suited for player representation. House division offers internal antagonists, and sport killing is hardly anything new when you look at the norn and charr.

That said, I do hope the people clamoring for kodan can get what they want someday, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see the largos make it before them - ideally first, but I'm pretty sure the tengu will claim that spot. I'm very curious how they're going to make new races and fit them into the world, if they do at all. We'll all see sooner or later, I guess.

[Konig Des Todes]

Raege, on 17 September 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Ah you got the wrong statue in mind. I am indeed talking of Malchor's one at the temple of Dwayna. The statue disappears when the temple is captured by the pact tho, which might be why you have missed it

I might, just might have a screenshot of it. Going to check and possibly post it later

Spoiler

The event(s) include Malchor's Ghost and the statue is exactly like that Orrian largos (well, it's different color but the model is the same).

Is that so? Does the other cathedrals (specifically: Lyssa's - as I didn't see one there) have such a statue too? I did see a differently designed statue of Balthazar, but it merely replaced the altar in comparison to other cathedrals so thought it was unique.

Lordkrall, on 17 September 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Spoiler

Since the NPCs of said race clearly have a rather good idea about Abbadon Temple, I got the feeling that they might, in some way, be related to the Margonites.

Spoiler

Sayeh doesn't know much about the temple, actually, just that it's blocked off and that's because she did scouting. Scouts found the temple and she went in after the fact. Margonites were humans from the Crystal Sea, not deep sea creatures.

What is interesting to note, however, is that Sayeh knows Orrian text and can easily translate it. Along with that, both largos and Orrians share Arabic names.

[Lordkrall]

Konig Des Todes, on 17 September 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Spoiler

Sayeh doesn't know much about the temple, actually, just that it's blocked off and that's because she did scouting. Scouts found the temple and she went in after the fact. Margonites were humans from the Crystal Sea, not deep sea creatures.

What is interesting to note, however, is that Sayeh knows Orrian text and can easily translate it. Along with that, both largos and Orrians share Arabic names.

Spoiler

Ah true,
According to the Wiki however the Margonites and Largos both have connections to the Unending Ocean. The former rules and the latter inhabitants

[Konig Des Todes]

Spoiler

True, but one were seafarer sailors, the others lived in the depths of the ocean. They probably never knew of the others' existence. And if they did, it might have been along the lines of rl sailor myths of mermaids or some such.

[Klofange Fiercehunter]

ANyone got a screen shot of this statue of Dwayna that look slike a largos, I am really interested, Are their staues of the other gods also, which show similarities to non human races

[Konig Des Todes]

There's a statue of Balthazar that looks like Heavy Arah dungeon armor. Dominyc's second image is of it on the ground. All the images I managed to take were during the fight thus skill effect crazy. >.> Gonna have to try and get to the chain at the beginning some time.

[Domynic]

Here you go:



Now that I look at it, the similarities are quite small. It's only really the silhouette that looks similar to a largos. The wings of the statue and priestess attach along the back too, as you would expect, rather than from the upper-back/neck that the largos seem to have.

Edited by Domynic, 18 September 2012 - 11:12 PM.

[Konig Des Todes]

That's definitely a largos model.

http://cghub.com/images/view/163287/

Post by a Anet artist, description: "Another critter from GW2. A crazy zombified fishbutterflylady disaster zone." and titled "Orrian Largos"

Furthermore, except the toes, her leg armor is the same as Sayeh al'Rajihd (and other female largos, since they all share the same model - compare to this). Hard to tell but the gloves might also be the same. However, the wings are grossly different.

From the front, at least, the wings do look like they'll go into the shoulder bones, but they curve back up before "attaching" on living largos models.

Though the question is this: Was the idea of a Risen Largos scratched and the model reused (with minor alterations?), and if not where are Risen Largos?

[draxynnic]

Konig Des Todes, on 19 September 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

Though the question is this: Was the idea of a Risen Largos scratched and the model reused (with minor alterations?), and if not where are Risen Largos?

That's pretty much my thought - if they already had the model and decided not to have risen largos, then it makes a good basis for a zombified winged humanoid. By my limited understanding, the wings don't seem to match the birdlike structure from other statues of Dwayna, but that could be part of the corruption (possibly even a case of the priestess not having wings in life, but wanted them so she got them through her corruption).

Certainly, my gut feeling is that the statue got corrupted - the initial statues were supposedly the basis for the others, so I'd expect we'd have known by now if there was such a big difference between the statues. Unless there was some big conspiracy on the part of the Orrians to hide Dwayna's true nature, there would theoretically have been people alive in GW1 that had pilgrimaged to the cathedrals, or at least the children of people who had given the length of the Guild Wars.

[Konig Des Todes]

Considering other statues - the same style as seen in Divinity's Reach - gets corrupted to look like the gods were zombies (exposed ribs on Lyssa, for instance), I'm betting on that being corruptive magic altering the original statue.

[draxynnic]

Malchior must really be turning in his grave. He gave his sight and sanity to make those statues, and then this dragon comes along and ruins them!

[CunningMoogle]

Just throwing this out there, it states they can go unseen, anyone remember krytans in guildwars talking about The Unseen Ones, wich later turned out to be mursaat, they also lived in the same area, so largos=mursaat or ofspring of mursaat.

[Konig Des Todes]

"lived in the same area" - you mean mursaat lived in the same area as largos? Please, do provide a source saying that mursaat lived in the ocean depths and are aquatic, because nothing does.

Also, a lot of folks can hide themselves - thieves, mesmers, various asuran devices, spirits. It's not as common as folks make it out to believe. Mursaat magic is more than making them invisible - they become "out of phase" with the world, however you wish to interpret that.

[CunningMoogle]

General area, ring of fire is where they came from, Largos came from the unending oceans, wich surround the rings of fire.

[Konig Des Todes]

Actually, that's not entirely correct. The Ring of Fire is where they had a strong military front in order to protect (and seal) the Door of Komalie.

Nothing implies the mursaat originate from the Ring of Fire. Rather, Saul D'Alessio found them in a forested area that he was exiled to (suspected to be either Maguuma Jungle to the west or, more likely imo, Woodland Cascades to the north).

Furthermore, the Unending Ocean doesn't surround the Ring of Fire. The Unending Ocean is the large body of water (read:ocean) which resides between the Tyrian supercontinent (Tyria, Elona, and lands to the east) and Cantha. The Ring of Fire islands are on the edge of the Unending Ocean, placed between the said Unending Ocean and the Strait of Malchor which feeds into the Sea of Sorrows. The ocean depths would be several dozen - if not hundred - miles away from the coast both horizontally and vertically.

[draxynnic]

So, two largos threads... might have to do something about that. For now, though, this is relevant here, and less so in the current thread, and therefor:

Something I noticed the other day - Malchor's amphitheater (where he starts in the "Drive Malchor to the Altar of Tempests" event) contains an unfinished statue of Dwayna, with the following inscription:

Quote

And again, Dwayna, and again, and again, until I have captured your beauty, you. You will be mine! You will be MINE!

It appears that between finishing the statue he was commissioned to do and going bungee-jumping without a rope, Malchor, unsatisfied with his first work, occupied himself with attempting to do better the second time (and possibly more), evidently purely by touch - consistent with his ghost's denouncing of the unworthiness of his work during the event. The significance here is that the unfinished statue resembles an unbroken GW1 statue rather than the statue at the Altar of Tempests. This suggests to me that unless Malchor's memory of Dwayna changed between sculpting the cathedral statue and making the second attempt, Dwayna's appearance is in fact what we're used to seeing, and the statue in the cathedral has been corrupted.

[Konig Des Todes]

Or that his memory was altered by his fanaticism of Dwayna and that she doesn't have feathered wings.

Fun note: the old risen female largos is used not only for the animated statue of Dwayna but also for Dwayna's High Priestess(es? - there's two NPCs with this model, one at the cathedral one in Arah seer path, the latter being called High Priestess don't recall if the former is High or not).

[Radix]

I really hope IF they decide to add any future races they choose this one. Out of all the other races this one needs to be in game. It adds an aquatic race which i think is needed ,and they are super duper radical. If anything, I would ask to touch up the patterns on the wings or make them customizable in shape and pattern. If they added the largos as a future race I think then much more underwater content could be added--which I actually like.

They are cool enough to balance out with the other races and equally as dynamique and original.

If the largos are an aquatic race implemented then I vote perhaps Tengu are added as well as they are sort of the opposite spectrum being flyers. Also, wouldn't it be cool if the Tengu flew or hovered in the air just off the ground? Not like you can really fly away, but add that z axis a little further while on land.

[Konig Des Todes]

Tengu don't fly. They lost their ability of flight millennium ago - or so says lore.

(and to be honest, the fact largos culture still feels one-dimension - or "super duper radical" as you put it - is perhaps the strongest argument against largos becoming playable)

[Radix]

Konig Des Todes, on 04 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Tengu don't fly. They lost their ability of flight millennium ago - or so says lore.

(and to be honest, the fact largos culture still feels one-dimension - or "super duper radical" as you put it - is perhaps the strongest argument against largos becoming playable)

First off, do'n't argue with me sir. Being super duper radical has nothing to do with being one dimensional--it's being super duper radical. Not to mention that of course they are one dimensional at this point in the game, so are many of the unplayable races. It's not like they wouldn't be extrapolated on if made playable.

As for tengu, there is nothing a good lore writer couldn't do in the future. What if a well rounded faction of tengu engineered bionic wings or magically started being born with wings? It's not like crazier things haven't happened.

[Sinful01]

Konig Des Todes, on 04 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Tengu don't fly. They lost their ability of flight millennium ago - or so says lore.

(and to be honest, the fact largos culture still feels one-dimension - or "super duper radical" as you put it - is perhaps the strongest argument against largos becoming playable)

I saw the limited Largos information out there as a benefit.  It leaves a lot of wiggle room for the writers to flesh things out.  In game you only see a handful of Largos ... who are to say they're even representative of the whole race?  How do we know we haven't just met the fanatical hunter-killer Largos (like the 'Predator' aliens in the movies ... the ones we always see are the ones out hunting).

Plus, I felt a lot of the dialog you get from the few Largos you do talk to (especially the one in the campaign storyline) was intriguing and the things they (she especially) mentioned had me going "What? Now I want to know more about that."

What is the Concordat of the Tethyos Houses? A/the Tethyos Compact?



Lastly, honestly, I can't see them not making the Largos a playable race simply because it has that "dark, potentially sinister 'cool factor' and appeal" that young male gamers seem to often want.  You might as well make ninjas and an NPC only profession then ask "I wonder what professions they'll add later?" lol

[Radix]

Sinful01, on 04 December 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

I saw the limited Largos information out there as a benefit.  It leaves a lot of wiggle room for the writers to flesh things out.  In game you only see a handful of Largos ... who are to say they're even representative of the whole race?  How do we know we haven't just met the fanatical hunter-killer Largos (like the 'Predator' aliens in the movies ... the ones we always see are the ones out hunting).

Plus, I felt a lot of the dialog you get from the few Largos you do talk to (especially the one in the campaign storyline) was intriguing and the things they (she especially) mentioned had me going "What? Now I want to know more about that."

What is the Concordat of the Tethyos Houses? A/the Tethyos Compact?



Lastly, honestly, I can't see them not making the Largos a playable race simply because it has that "dark, potentially sinister 'cool factor' and appeal" that young male gamers seem to often want.  You might as well make ninjas and an NPC only profession then ask "I wonder what professions they'll add later?" lol

IMO any other races added should only be dark and only get darker. Not because i'm a dark person but adding more and more cute races would probably only make the game appear more and more commercial and simply excess. Adding new, dark and complex races seem like upgrades rather than just implementing races that will make the game more bubbly and cheap feeling. The world is already at it's most bubbly point and anything added IMO should be a tad darker. I hate to even bring p wow butThe death knights in wow i thought were cool, as well as goblins and worgen--the pandas were just cheap.

[Konig Des Todes]

@Radix: Wasn't arguing with you, sir. But there are quite a number of minor races (hylek and skritt for starters) that are not one-dimensional. BTW, by one-dimenasional I mean "everyone in their culture acts the same (more or less)" - e.g., the largos are all assassins. The reason this harms the potential of beign a playable race is because each playable race has a division of culture - for humans its heritage and background (noble, commoner, street rat), charr have their legions, norn have their spirits, asura their colleges, and sylvari their cycles. Tengu have their four houses, but largos have not.

Now I'm not saying this makes largos impossible to become playable - the lack of knowledge on them makes it so that their background can become just about anything. I'm simply saying its the strongest aspect.

And I don't see tengu becoming a flight race - by any means or reasons - because Anet seems to hold a stance of "no flight battles" for whatever reason. Plus, a tengu with bionic wings is just silly (and begs the question why other races can get the same treatment).

@Sinful: I never once said the lack of information was harmful. I'm of the same stance as you on that regard and truth be told I find that largos and tengu are the only two races that, given what we know, are plausible for playable races in the future.

@Radix again: I disagree with your position but not your reasoning. I don't think each new race should be "dark and darker" but rather that we should get a mixture. Just so long as we don't get more quaggan-like races.

[Red J]

We can argue that Largos at their current state are very similar to norn and especially asura in EotN. Both very rather shallow and one-dimensional, being anarchic glory hounds and mad scientists, respectively.

[Radix]

@konig I say good day to you sir! ; jk, I agree with a lot you say I just like to come up with wacky ideas. I see what you are saying about one dimensional although the scarcity of knowledge on Largos could be built upon also. If not largos I do want some sort of aquatic race be it existing or a new one. If anything tengu will probably be implemented, I don't think they should really fly just sprout wings and hover sort of like a harpy. The future is mutable!

[Sirius]

From a lore perspective, maybe a little strange, not totally impossible though - they went from being able to fly to not in a short enough time to apparently know about it. Which means either tengu are into paleontology, or the process was highly unusual - and if it's unusual, we wouldn't know for sure that it isn't reversible.
(Reminds me of Metroid's Chozo...)

But bring gameplay in and it's just not going to happen. Most races can't fly, and this is a conscious design decision. It's not going to be broken for new races because that would be unfair (this applies to harpy-style "hovering" as well). If there is ever flight in this game - and there may not be - it will be available for all races equally. Such as an expansion bringing in personal flying machines, for instance... no signs of it yet but at least it won't cause the same problems.

[Dasryn]

wait, are we implying that Lyssa is a Largos or just resembles one?  this could have some serious implications as it would indicate that the human gods were not all indeed human, and that they didnt come from another planet as Largos are native to Tyria (for all we know).

thats very strange.