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Story is not that Dark or Jaw dropping

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#31 Bleary

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:28 PM

Human thief, born to nobility, missing sister storyline is awesome!!!
Especially the quest where you go to the party and have to socialize with all the rich political folk who are all backstabbing eachother...

#32 Biz

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:31 PM

View PostChabby, on 19 June 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well, you know, they presented GW2's storyline as the awakening of the Elder Dragons and the fact that Tyria is now in chaos. I was hoping to get involved in the dragon issues faster. In the end the lands are at peace with small bandits and sunshine. lol. We'll see at release how it goes, I just hope it gets better after lvl 20.
"Awakening" was going on for 200+ years before the game, not much on the "chaos" part since most of it was/is ancient history as far as your avarage Joe the NPC is concerned who sees bandits burning his hay bales as more of a threat then dragons.

We know for a fact that storylines merge some time past 20 and you get to kill The Big Bad - but that wont change anything in terms of settings or gamedesign. Threat to you as "Saviour of the People" becomes arguably larger - but the downtrodden peasants still wont see beyond their haybales...

Edited by Biz, 19 June 2012 - 01:32 PM.


#33 Sovereign

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 01:51 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 19 June 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

eh? I could say the Searing was like the most depressing that ever happened to me in a video game.. :P
And after the searing it doesn't get much worse. :P
But you are right, the searing was very emotive. It's why I will never play a Charr in GW2.

View PostChalky, on 19 June 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

No, it really doesn't.  It's the tutorial.  You're running round the starting zone doing race specific flavour missions.  The thing that's around the corner is "dragons come everyone dies" and you're screwing around killing some bandits who are trying to steal the farmer's cattle.
Don't want to spoil anything, but the personal storyline of the humans is about far more then killing some bandits, even at the beginning of the game. It introduces some internal problems that might affect humanities military strength when fighting against said dragons.

Edited by Toby_from_Midgard, 19 June 2012 - 01:53 PM.


#34 Kymeric

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:03 PM

View PostBiz, on 19 June 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Secret World for one would be a better fit - both in setting and acctual game mechanics. GW2 has nothing to gain and a lot to lose if you start making everything darker.

Secret World would be a good example of how constant dark doesn't improve a storyline.  Every NPC you meet proceeds to demonstrate how jaded they are and monologue about their regrets with a wry, dry humor.  I felt like I was playing a roving psychotherapist.  Couple that with the fact that you can't walk two steps without running into some abomination of walking dead or deranged cultist, and I couldn't help thinking, "Maybe we should just leave this blasted island/desert/whatever" for the forces of darkness.  What's worth saving here?

I haven't played much of the storyline in the BWEs, since I don't want to get tired of it, but the one street-rat human story I followed briefly had me rescuing friends who were entangled with a criminal gang that wouldn't let them stop doing crime.  That's a pretty dark story-line.

Also, based on the book, Destiny's Edge has some darkness.  Eir has been watching fool-hardy Norn throw themselves at a dragon's minion and then had to kill them as they came back corrupted to fight their own families.  Caith has an evil lover who is trying to twist her to the Nightmare Court.  I'm not sure how far the storyline goes in the first 20 levels, but eventually these stories should come out in our personal stories.

It's probably worth reflecting on whether our exposure to "dark" storylines and entertainment has numbed our palates to the point where we have difficulty even seeing darkness unless it is of a particularly brutal kind.

This is a heroic, sword-and-sorcery, PG kind of game.  As others have pointed out, there are other options if you need a violence and brutality fix.

#35 Mitobunny

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:06 PM

I think what he means is that the stakes need to be raised a little more. Part of what makes a story interesting, usually right before the climax is that the bad just became worse and there seems to be no hope in site. However, if we are to view the personal storyline as indeed, a real story, then we also must assume that up to level 20 is the beginning portion of the story where the characters are introduced and the action hasn't begun. After the beginning, the action picks up and this will probably happen around 30+ when you first go into the Ascalon Catacombs (or at least I think that's when it happens). As you probably know, the storyline ends with Zhaitan so I imagine it will pick up and being more tense.

#36 Kymeric

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:07 PM

View PostToby_from_Midgard, on 19 June 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

And after the searing it doesn't get much worse. :P

Religious zealots sacrificing peasants to use their souls to power their magic?

#37 Zefiris

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:09 PM

View PostToby_from_Midgard, on 19 June 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Yet it created the right impression: The Prophecies storyline was not very "dark" :P

uh....you seriously think that multiple genocide isn't "dark"? What?

Does Arenanet need Nazis eating babies to be dark enough? :P

Edit. The main thing prophecies failed was the end, I think. THE TITANS...
...who ended up like rolling bugs. Scary! :D

Edited by Zefiris, 19 June 2012 - 02:10 PM.


#38 Megera

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:10 PM

I personally don't expect the story to be jaw-dropping or particularly dark. Those themes aren't for everyone and as much as I enjoy books/series like Game of Thrones etc, going that way with a game is more risky, because of the connection the player feels to the character. The game is also rated T, so this might have had some effect. However, the lack of violence in the game doesn't prevent it from having some pretty nasty moral choices for you to make. Of course, how you take those things depends on how immersed you're into the game, but as someone who played the Human Street Rat storyline, I must say that part of the dialogue I ended up listening to wasn't funny/happy at all, if I stopped and imagined this as a real life situation.

Human Street Rat Spoilers:
Spoiler

Edited by Megera, 19 June 2012 - 02:13 PM.


#39 Elemental Gearbolt

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:16 PM

View PostCastellan, on 19 June 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

What I mean is that from what I've played (three different personal stories)... Story is not that engaging due to a lack of violence and truly heinous acts. If the story was a bit more wicked, I think that the player would feel more emotional towards the events that are occurring.

(Warning spoiler contains info on a storyline)
Spoiler

It feels as if a 9 year old can play this game. If that's what Anet was going for then job well done. But I don't believe this is the case.

Now, if the story gets better as it goes then I'm fine. But I have yet to see it.

Anet clearly want to make a family friendly game, hence you get all the "disney movies" feel with the story, if you're looking for a MMO with evil story twists and more, you should try Secret World , there you can get all the dismembered bodies you like

#40 Mordachai

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:19 PM

View PostChabby, on 19 June 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

snip..

Color of your armor is what you chose in charactercreation, so thats up to you. You chose streetrat and like it or not, all three choices have a previous life (as told in the openingmovie), with friends. As a streetrat that friend is quinn, the "stranger" who gets into trouble three times in "random" missions. Actually, they arent so random since its all a part of a prestory. As for "being fully friended to logan", You have just been sent out to help Logan defend shaemoor when no-one else was there to do so. Doing that, you gained his respect. In further missions you  expand on that. As for your long "dead" sister... nothing was ever said about her being dead, it was implied by the fact that it states you "never recovered her body", but that doesnt mean its set in stone.

Perhaps, if you spend a little more time actually listening to what is said, you may find that it isnt as random as you think.

#41 Imaginos

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:20 PM

View PostToby_from_Midgard, on 19 June 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

For me it was lvl 20.
Btw. there is a personal storyline history, where you can check what you have done and what your task is.

was L20 for me also, human story, noble/circus/lost parents.

#42 Mordachai

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:23 PM

View PostMegera, on 19 June 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

snip.

I made the same choice as you and i agree, i too had to think about it for a while. And i too felt pretty crappy when i heard the comments.

#43 UssjTrunks

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:23 PM

This game is rated T, meaning it must be suitable for children. I do agree that the overarching storyline does seem a little bland (giant dragons coming out of the ground). However, I can't pass judgement on that until I've actually played through the game.

#44 Parlourbeatflex

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostPlutonsvea, on 19 June 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

I agree with you.
And also, the cut-scenes are terribly slow. I always decide to skip it, just to get on with the game.
If there is a suggestion that is definitely needed for Gw2, it would be a quest log.
Just so when we have no idea of what I am doing, I can read it and find out why I am doing it.

Theres a section in your Heros panel that contains a journal of sorts. It needs some work and id love to see the detail fleshed out a little bit more. But its there.

#45 chase128

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:32 PM

Where is the OP in this thread?  Makes a topic, then doesn't respond?

#46 Sovereign

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 02:43 PM

View PostZefiris, on 19 June 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

uh....you seriously think that multiple genocide isn't "dark"? What?

Does Arenanet need Nazis eating babies to be dark enough? :P

Edit. The main thing prophecies failed was the end, I think. THE TITANS...
...who ended up like rolling bugs. Scary! :D
I only thought about the campaign after leaving Ascalon. :/
I agree that everything in the destroyed Ascalon was rather dark and created a feeling of being at war.
Rurik's death was another dark plot twist (even though getting hit by a tree is not exactly a heroic death).
But once you leave Lion's Arch and the White Mantle/Shining Blade/Lich story pans out, there is barely any desperation noticeable. I know the events ARE kind of dark but they don't really feel like it.
It's probably this feeling that I would like to have for GW2 (and I'm not saying this won't be the case, we obviously don't know).
I want to be desperate! :qq:  ^^

View PostImaginos, on 19 June 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

was L20 for me also, human story, noble/circus/lost parents.
Yep. Noble/Lost parents/don't know the rest

#47 Silver

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:02 PM

I enjoyed the story(human). It didn't seem "dark or jaw dropping", but it did have a mature feel to it.
That's what I liked about it.

#48 Chabby

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostMordachai, on 19 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Color of your armor is what you chose in charactercreation, so thats up to you. You chose streetrat and like it or not, all three choices have a previous life (as told in the openingmovie), with friends. As a streetrat that friend is quinn, the "stranger" who gets into trouble three times in "random" missions. Actually, they arent so random since its all a part of a prestory. As for "being fully friended to logan", You have just been sent out to help Logan defend shaemoor when no-one else was there to do so. Doing that, you gained his respect. In further missions you  expand on that. As for your long "dead" sister... nothing was ever said about her being dead, it was implied by the fact that it states you "never recovered her body", but that doesnt mean its set in stone.

Perhaps, if you spend a little more time actually listening to what is said, you may find that it isnt as random as you think.

And that's the issue. It's my character and my story yet I start playing with a settings/friends already decided for me. There is a prestory to my story. See the issue?
The armor was to point out that for a street rat, my character was very noble and had a pretty good armor/reputation. Prestory? Ok fine, but then it goes against the whole idea of having our own story.

And I know that Quinn is a good friend to my character, but as a player, I felt no attachment to him, no emotion. He was just dumb and annoying. Look at Mass Effect: we meet new characters and we have the chance to discuss with them, to get to know them, we grow up with them and after hours of gameplay, we have our first decision that can have an impact on one of them. So, obviously, we get to have attachment to their personnality and it hurts to decide which of them we want to see die.

Here, Quinn appears out of nowhere (prestory or not), he keeps ignoring me and getting in trouble and there you go: Save him or not. As a player, I just don't care, I just met him. I don't know if this decision comes back later in the game but that's a pretty bad introduction for him or any possibilities of character attachment. If only we could talk to him from time to time in our home district, we could at least learn a bit more about him other than him being involved with a bad guy and being our friend. Plus, it helps for characters development.

It would have been better to meet him, get to know him gradually and then he gets in trouble instead of giving us a prestory and some missions with little impacts on the player.

As for the missions, I do listen, I do read (I have subtitles), but I can't help having this feeling of just following the green dot. Why is this cave there? How come nobody found my sister earlier? I find a traitor, he tells us things, but he doesn't tell us where the cave is or why it's there, the dot just appears to be there and that's all.

Edited by Chabby, 19 June 2012 - 03:10 PM.


#49 Skyy High

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:06 PM

View PostCastellan, on 19 June 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

What I mean is that from what I've played (three different personal stories)... Story is not that engaging due to a lack of violence and truly heinous acts. If the story was a bit more wicked, I think that the player would feel more emotional towards the events that are occurring.

(Warning spoiler contains info on a storyline)
Spoiler

It feels as if a 9 year old can play this game. If that's what Anet was going for then job well done. But I don't believe this is the case.

Now, if the story gets better as it goes then I'm fine. But I have yet to see it.
You know what's immature? Needing violence or "heinous acts" in order to get involved in a story. "Dark and edgy" is not a requirement for, nor does it guarantee, a good story.

The original Star Wars, if it were done in a "dark and edgy" fashion, would be grotesque.

@Chabby: what, you want them to let you decide every aspect of your character's personality and backstory during character creation? Can you think of an RPG that does that? Even the TES games always start the player off as a prisoner that escapes from prison and is sent on some grand quest to save the realm, because the devs have to start somewhere, and that's pretty much the most open single-player RPG I can think of. You start with no family, no friends, no connections to the world at all; it's nice to build those things, sure, but it's also nice to play a game where your character isn't just some empty-headed lout with no connections to the world. I'll take the dev-mandated personal connections over zero personal connections any day.

It's also worth pointing out that you're comparing your connection to companions in Mass Effect that you've spent tens of hours with, to your connection with a companion in GW2 that you spent, maybe, an hour with. Your story with Quinn is not the focus of your overarching story. I'd be very surprised if any of the "tutorial" story (basically the first arch, that ends around lvl20) impacts much of anything after it's over. It seems like an introduction to the storytelling system and the world at large, not something that you are supposed to compare to a game that is literally all about your relationships with your companions.

Edited by Skyy High, 19 June 2012 - 03:13 PM.


#50 Sovereign

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:07 PM

View PostChabby, on 19 June 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Look at Mass Effect: we meet new characters and we have the chance to discuss with them, to get to know them, we grow up with them and after hours of gameplay, we have our first decision that can have an impact on one of them. So, obviously, we get to have attachment to their personnality and it hurts to decide which of them we want to see die
He did it. I'm depressed again. ^^

#51 gobberpooper

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:09 PM

GW1 had a fantastic storyline. A lot of people said it wasn't that great, but stories usually do suck if you skip half the missions and all the cinematics just to get to the end. For those of you who didn't pay attention to it, there were a lot of twists and dark moments, the most prominent one that comes to mind being the killing of the Chosen, although the biggest shocker I can't even say on this forum without spoiling everything. And then in Nightfall you realize that everything in the previous games connects back to Abaddon and you're all "holy bajesus! so the door of komalie? and the shuriken warriors? wooahhhh!"

The personal storyline that we've seen has pretty much nothing to do with the actual story. The actual story involves getting Destiny's Edge together and going into Orr and lands that have been corrupted beyond saving to kill a giant dragon, giant being quite an understatement(considering that Anet said Tequatl the Sunrise was one of the smaller dragons). I have no doubts that the actual story will be really good. Especially getting to Orr and seeing a shell of Arah's former greatness.

Edited by gobberpooper, 19 June 2012 - 03:15 PM.


#52 Sausajoooz

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:09 PM

To be honest, I dont really expect much story-wise from a game not made by Bioware, on any platform, because their type of storytelling is my favorite. We'll have to see the whole thing through though, to see how it ends.

#53 Silver

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:12 PM

I don't know why people don't like the GW1 story.
Especially Eye of the north. I loved it so much.

#54 Kimhyuna

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:12 PM

There are still 60 levels available ..... so you never know what might come up!
Didnt they say personal stories get interesting about the level 30 mark when you can make choices and stuff? I might be wrong.
Anywho, havent done any of them yet cos I dont wanna spoil the experiance so I shall reserve judgement (But I honestly doubt it can be as bad as some of the games out there.)

Edited by Kimhyuna, 19 June 2012 - 03:14 PM.


#55 Herr Roy Raven

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:13 PM

The problem people are making is they are thinking the story is 1-80 rather than 1-80 and beyond.  I really enjoyed the story.  Maybe you are playing the wrong one.  I picked a Human, Dead Sister, Street Rat and I thought the story was excellent.  I nearly had a tear in my eye after playing through it (not really,but you get the point, it was impactful).   I'm very curious to see how the story goes from dealing with what happened in the beta to destroying Zhaitan.

  I also have a strong feeling that the OP is a very young player.  Most that call others children or say something was made for young children often are too immature to enjoy things themselves.

#56 Hessarian

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:14 PM

The game story is okay. They've done some cool things in the novel Edge of Destiny and I think the Silvari are pretty neat.

But I don't expect anything jaw dropping. To me, this is standard fair fantasy. We are just a bunch of adventurers going off to fight some really big dragons.

This isn't a story done by Bioware, or Robert Jordan, or George RR Martin, or Patrick Rothfuss. I'm not expecting themes from those writers such as intense character development or huge twists in the story. I think most things in this (so far) have been pretty black and white. Besides I think the main lore guy, Grubb I think, was the one who worked on dungeons and dragons campaigns. So i expect stories like that.

#57 Herr Roy Raven

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:16 PM

View PostSilver, on 19 June 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

I don't know why people don't like the GW1 story.
Especially Eye of the north. I loved it so much.

Prophecies - Predictable, kind of instantly shifted to different things, a lot of it seeming meaningless, but regardless it was probably the most fun with the best thought-out missions and bonuses.
Factions - Killing "Zombies" and trying to get turtle hippies and emos to get along to kill some Asian dude.
Nightfall - Great story with multiple paths to play.  Really fun and sometimes challenging.
Eye of the North - Forget Guild Wars 1... here's new races everyone!  Enjoy some lame story we threw together just to reveal some races we're making for GW2!!

Opinions are always different...

#58 Chabby

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:17 PM

View PostSkyy High, on 19 June 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

@Chabby: what, you want them to let you decide every aspect of your character's personality and backstory during character creation? Can you think of an RPG that does that? Even the TES games always start the player off as a prisoner that escapes from prison and is sent on some grand quest to save the realm, because the devs have to start somewhere, and that's pretty much the most open single-player RPG I can think of. You start with no family, no friends, no connections to the world at all; it's nice to build those things, sure, but it's also nice to play a game where your character isn't just some empty-headed lout with no connections to the world. I'll take the dev-mandated personal connections over zero personal connections any day.

Well... Yeah, ok, but I want a good balance of both. Even in my example (Mass Effect) we start the game as being someone with people we know. It's not about having a prestory or a small reputation already, but how the storytelling is handled. In the human storyline, it fails in my opinion. We have too much of a reputation already and we know our friends too much, it doesn't give the chance to the player to link with his character and the other NPCs.
Anet took it to an extreme. Not only we already have friends, but they decided it that way so much to a point we're not allowed to get to know them more.

They made me friend with Quinn and one hour later I have to decide if I want to see him dead or no. Having a prestory isn't completely a problem, it's normal and I can live with it somehow, but Arenanet wanted our character to have friends to a point they didn't even allow the player to know them. As a player, I wanted to know Quinn, to be friend with him, to know where he comes from, how we met, if he ever had feeling for someone, I don't know, but he's just an empty dumb character and we're supposed to decide if he lives or not, we're not given the chance to get close to him or whatever. The decision (his death or not) would have had a bigger emotional impact on the player if he had the time to get attached to him. This time/possibility isn't given.

The same goes to Logan. That's why I said I'd rater get to meet them as a player before being given the prestory thing. A good balance is the key. In the human storyline, there is not. Well, if some of youi enjoyed the storyline, good and I can live with it too (I played all the human storyline in the beta), I'm still curious enough to continue. I just hope it gets better in later levels. If not, we'll see in the expansion packs with the feedbacks and such. It could have been handled better, but it could be worse too. For a MMO we're still given lot of choices, so I won't complain to death lol, it's not that bad.

Edited by Chabby, 19 June 2012 - 03:43 PM.


#59 Silver

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:18 PM

View PostHerr Roy Raven, on 19 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Eye of the North - Forget Guild Wars 1... here's new races everyone!  Enjoy some lame story we threw together just to reveal some races we're making for GW2!!

Opinions are always different...
Indeed they are. It's all a matter of taste I suppose.

#60 gobberpooper

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:23 PM

View PostHerr Roy Raven, on 19 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Prophecies - Predictable, kind of instantly shifted to different things, a lot of it seeming meaningless, but regardless it was probably the most fun with the best thought-out missions and bonuses.
Factions - Killing "Zombies" and trying to get turtle hippies and emos to get along to kill some Asian dude.
Nightfall - Great story with multiple paths to play.  Really fun and sometimes challenging.
Eye of the North - Forget Guild Wars 1... here's new races everyone!  Enjoy some lame story we threw together just to reveal some races we're making for GW2!!

Opinions are always different...

Prophecies was never predictable, wtf are you talking about?
Spoiler
Factions' story was pretty bad but some of the missions were fun like Tanahkai Temple and Raisu Palace.
Nightfall was fantastic, great environment and good choices and good characters and super fun missions. lol the first time you get to Torment and get massacred by every mob is always memorable.
EotN had a good story, but it was just that it was more a prequel to GW2 than a sequel to GW1.





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